Benson to go Army?

[tmmorris]

I was told this ('when' not 'if') recently. It was news to me but I wouldn't be surprised, especially since the closure of Stn Ops and the fact that JHC is now under an Army commander.

Any rumours or confirmation?

Tim

[BEagle]

Uh-oh - there goes the neighbourhood......

[South Bound]

Surely they have to make a decision about if and where to move the light blue that presently work there first??? I understand that decision is far from close to being made....

[chevvron]

Simple, they'll just move to Odiham where they were in the first place!

[pjhz50]

This has been around for a while and is now pretty much a 'when' and not an 'if', as Dishforth will likely close.

[Melchett01]

This has been around for a while and is now pretty much a 'when' and not an 'if', as Dishforth will likely close.

I wouldn't bet your mortgage on that one. The cunning plan is for an SH super base at Lyneham. However, having seen the sh1t state it's in and worked out how much would have to be spent to bring it up to a reasonable standard rumour has it that people are thinking twice. The JHC high paid help have 3 choices:

1. Persaude RAF to stump up the cash to bring Lyneham up to a reasonable standard - unlikely to happed as the RAF high paid help seem to want very little to do with SH.

2. Stump up cash themselves to get Lyneham up to standard - unlikely to happen as JHC appears to be run by a team of Scottish accountants called Gordon and Prudence that hate helicopters almost as much as they hate spending money.

3. Say bollocks to peoples' concerns and move anyway. Well that will do wonders for retention and until they've worked out how to convert a helo to a UAV and to put them onto a VW-esque long life servicing programme where you only change the oil every x-thousand hours, we can't afford to lose anymore people.

I think they would like to do it, but I suspect the practicalities may prove to be a problem. Oh erm hang on, since when have practicalities ever lead to a senior officer saying 'no'? I'll start packing now then.

[Arclite01]

Why close Dishforth ??

I really don't get the point of that one..................

[Razor61]

What happened to the story of the SH moving to Yeovilton?

[parabellum]

Well, the reason for closing both Topcliffe and Dishforth would be the same wouldn't it? Both too close to Ripon, a beautiful market town with thirty seven pubs and one Conservative club. Can't have the troops enjoying themselves, can we?:=

[Gnd]

Plus Dishforth is miles from anywhere useful, 2 hr trip to pickup in Colchester, 6 hr round trip to Otterburn and the 2 back. 4 wasted hours that could be used to get something useful done!

If people would get on with the 1/4s, the RAF could get out of Benson and the Army in, the good thing would then be that all the forces sims were in the wrong place and T&S could become even more of an issue!!!:ugh:

Not sure the locals could handle the stimulation of the Army compared to now?:p

[Fortyodd2]

More likely that as the heating system at Benson is already knackered it would be an ideal place to put the Army as they are quite used to that sort of thing!! :\

[Gnd]

Quite true, dress for the environment, not the mess, basics old chap.

[Melchett01]

Quite true, dress for the environment, not the mess, basics old chap.

Was it Billy Connolly that summed this one up quite nicely as "There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!" ?

[Hachet Harry]

This is part of the MOD Airfield consolidation study and is being run at MOD level. Very little input from JHC, Benson, Dishforth or any other individual Command or Station.

[Melchett01]

This is part of the MOD Airfield consolidation study and is being run at MOD level. Very little input from JHC, Benson, Dishforth or any other individual Command or Station.

So no real input from reality or acknowledgment of what is really needed operationally above what is needed for some senior type to get the next promotion or gong then.

In that case, you may as well pile all the SH into Qatar and base it all from a relatively central location in theatre close to its use units. That should save a few million and get someone a K.

[Front Seater]

Melchey,
I like your thinking - but lets make the super base Camp Bastion, put everything that is left in the rotary world of any use there, get some operational sorties (that doesn't cost the arm and leg and bound in political health and safety blah of UK exercises) and then rotate crews through the UK for R&R and to keep their families ticking over.

If we take it a bit further, then if we position all this kit and equipment overseas on a long term basis, we are nicely positioned for most future perceived conflicts (anything and everything from Iran, Korea, China and even our old sabre rattling foe Russia is all on the door step). But to the bean counters, hey presto - no need for expensive real estate in UK, so lets flog off some of these lucrative bases.

Hey General, now that is cunning plan of yours.

[Melchett01]

Why thank you Front Seater,

It took many many hours of head scratching to work that one out. I'm so glad you agree with me. And of course, by putting everything into Bastion and designating it a home location, I shall task my J1 types to look into not having to pay LSSA or operational allowance whilst minimizing the amount spent on LOA - well it is the Middle East after all - you can get loads of gadgets for peanuts.

And we won't have to classify it as field conditions either, saving even more. When the troops return to the UK on R&R, we can charge them for living in the various Messes and Blocks - after all, if we station everyone in AF permanently, we can rent out the accommodation on stations that we won't need on a daily basis and for the periods the chaps are back in the UK we will obviously have to recompense the Home Office for not being able to store sorry house illegal immigrants in the SLAM blocks.

My God, it gets better and better the further I look into it.

FS - have a promotion and pass me the furniture & fittings catalogue - Mrs M wants to re-carpet the grace and favour pile with the cash we've saved by re-locating you to AF. Benson .... where? Which do think sounds better - General Sir ACH Melchett or Lord Melchett of Barking? Decisions decisions!:ugh:

[Hachet Harry]

It actually makes quite alot of sense. Aircraft will be located according to their type or capability so SH in one location, attack in another etc. It makes sense both financially and operationally. And making those bases 'Super Bases' increases those financial and operational benefits.

There will obviously be those individuals that have been stationed at base X for eons who don't want to move (Apaches to Wattisham, Lynx to Dishforth (Attack and Support)) and will therefore argue against it, but it you remove the emotion, there's little solid argument against it - apart from the fact that to make all this happen will initially cost hundreds of millions that the MOD don't have!!

[charliegolf]

How would they utilise that gazillion pound Microsoft Flight Sim Centre at Benson if everyone moved out? Buses?

CG

[nice castle]

Nope. Apparently it can be moved once in 25 years. For once, someone saw this one coming and got it put in the contract.

This thread is all semantics though. Moves have to pay for themselves over time. It won't, no-one's got any cash to sub it, ergo, stay put, and the decision is to delay the decision.

[klingonbc]

After all the money spent already on Benson for the Merlin and Puma Force, OCFs and MSHATF location - and - the cost of refurb'ing Lyneham, surely the sensible option is to move the Ch47 to Benson, forming a superbase there, (where the sims are!!) and leaving the delapidated Lyneham to the pongos for a change. Yes I know - space might be a bit tight for 3 x Ch47 sqns/OCF to move in but there is that lovely barn development at the end of the airfield that would make a superb sqn/force HQ and the compulsory purchase order would ensure we get it at an affordable price. Of course their airships AEF sqn(s) would have to move out - woops there a show stopper! to make room. And don't worry about the circuit congestion problem, all we have to do is re-activate the airfield side of Abingdon to provide the capacity as an RLG. Jobs a good-un ... and the Abingdon army units would be right on site for mutual training ... god this plan really is sensible ... anyone listening ? or is that the sound of a black saloon on my drivew.....

[MaroonMan4]

Hmmh - so you want cost neutral do you?

How much for Dishforth Airfield (keep the barracks to re-house those units coming back from Germany) but the airfield real estate right on the A1.
Yeovilton, lets 'sell' it to the RAF (remember it belongs to Defence Estates and not the Fisheads) or get them to sort Lyneham out in 'Swap Shop' style exchange.

Odiham (even after all off its put back to original state costs will be worth a bob or two).
So that is the sale/money in the kitty - now lets look at somewhere cheap to buy:

Let me think, Scottish PM, employment opportunities required in Scotland, significantly reduced low flying complaints, SPTA has been outgrown by technology and equipment (and is overused as all of the other training areas get reduced (e.g. Germany)). Lots of (albeit relatively small) mountains to prepare crews for future deployments etc. Not too far away from the sea for the Junglies to play (most JMCs take place around there anyway and the boats of the Navy can't afford the fuel to go anywhere else apart from the North/Irish sea) And in comparison to Odiham land is alot cheaper.

So FS and Melchett, I raise your Middle East superbase to a Scottish one - Kinloss or Leuchars (loads of room on both especially when the Tonks reduce their size to pay for Typhoon/JCA). And I also raise you a new large training area north of the boarder (which if succesful will free up SPTA for the Green Party and much need housing development/immigration centres where possible.

Sound like a plan?

[Stitchbitch]

I understood that Benson was going to be a hub for superdooperlynx, Lyneham for RAF cabs and What a shame for Apache, however St.Athan looks good...:}

[wokawoka]

And how is Odiham supposed to maintain it's commitment to Herrick, Kindle and UK tasking and training when this move happens?
I can't see us being able to afford am overlap in maintenance etc on 2 differrent bases during the changeover. Let's face it, JSF will be in service before we move....
We can't even afford to send CSROs to a £70 conference......or £138 on mini-gun covers.

[whowhenwhy]

The return to original state argument for Odious is apparently a red herring. Plenty of space down there for Benson's ac! Might even be able to do the development side within the budget?????

In all seriousness though when reading Melchett's posts I couldn't help but think about the withdrawal west of Suez - damn short termist thinking!:ugh:

[nice castle]

Space, yes, planning permission to build on it, no. WRT returning Odi to the state it was in when we had it given to us by the landowner all those years ago, well, I think that if there was a way round it, we would have found it by now, to cash in, and flog the land to a developer!

I like the Scottish argument, though, I'd go at the drop of a hat. Nice cheap houses (compared to Surrey/Hants), the scenery is cool, and there will be fewer low flying complaints too!

In the meantime... I won't hold my breath of any major moves of Benson or Odi assets within at least 7 years, I reckon.

[Two's in]

Don't forget that in Germany in the late eighties and early nineties, no sooner was the paint dry on a new hangar, or the concrete set on a new dispersal than that Unit was off lock, stock and barrel back to Blighty. Investment in infrastructure, proximity to training facilities, conveninence for Service families and cost effectiveness are just 4 factors that NEVER feature when Service Chiefs and Politicians are out to make a name for themselves. If you think of the worst combination possible, add the disruption of suppporting fast tempo Operations worldwide, insert a touch of random management and it should be easy to figure out where you will all be in 5 years - not forgetting to factor FLynx as a major influence in the new location and then immediately cancel that Programme once the site has been named.

[Green Flash]

I raise your Middle East superbase to a Scottish one - Kinloss

14T on the doorstep, as is Tain, and Garvie for the BNAG; even Benbecula if you want to get technical and measure the bnag! Plenty of parking space in the North and South woods. Keep an eye on ISK next year. (get your bookings in early!)

[South Bound]

Doesn't matter what happens, will be a hideous compromise anyway.

Lyneham - outrageously expensive to provide sufficient SFA, hence no cash to upgrade the cr*p infra and adapt it to reflect how the SH world should (rather than does) operate.

Status Quo - does anyone really think MoD will cough up the millions it will need to bring Odious and Benson up to reasonable condition, let alone make the adaptations they really need (ops rooms for the combined forces etc) to move forward into the future? Kidding yourselves. If decision is not to move, we will still have people in cr*p SFA, veal crates at Benson because of limited accommodation and leaking sub-standard working accommodation all round.

Such a shame - if anything could come out of all the Lean/Transformation stuff that has gone on, it is that for us to continue to operate we must invest and update/change our infra to reflect that we are no longer fighting WWII or the Cold War. That opportunity will be missed, guaranteed...:ugh:

[chevvron]

Lets re-open Honington again

[Guzlin Adnams]

Nice new Slam blocks at Honington, on the ASP as well. Roll out of bed straight into the cab....

[Goer Round]

When I was there Benson was being kept open purely because "you can't move TQF"; then it was "we need an airfield close to Strike". All the world's odds and sods then came in - MCSU, TCW, etc etc then it was "you can't close Benson because of all these units". Ah, the wheel turns, then turns, and then turns again.

Mind you, the thought of some muddy pongo using my old office next the Plastic PRU Spit makes my blood curdle!