No GrowBags when buying booze.

[Basil]

Article in The Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=489407&in_page_id=1770) and also on TV news suggests no GrowBags when buying booze.

An Asian worker at the garage in Surrey told the shocked soldier he had to change out of his combat fatigues before he could be served.

Quite right too! I visited an old Basil station recently and was utterly appalled to witness officers, even Sqn Ldrs, wearing flying suits in the bar :p:p

JC! I'm glad I wasn't present at that little incident. I suspect Bas would now be under arrest on half a dozen charges! :*:*

[Satellite_Driver]

I seem to recall oft-repeated entries in SROs to the effect that Service personnel were not permitted to drink in public when in uniform; I'm not sure that anyone ever sought to apply this to buying the stuff for consumption later.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Baz,

"combat fatigues"......... "GrowBags"........and the correlation is.........:rolleyes:

[XV277]

Sounds like a business to avoid if in the Surrey area

[BEagle]

According to the Torygraph, it was the BP Wisley South station on the A3 near Guildford, Surrey.

If that's so, then it would be at:

Ripley Bypass,
Ripley
GUILDFORD
GU23 6PU
Surrey

I find the excuse somewhat lame........

[Flarkey]

Baz,
"combat fatigues"......... "GrowBags"........and the correlation is.........
Indeed. Combat fatigues look much smarter.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Guess you are not "smart" enough to wear a grow bag then flarkey :p

[Roland Pulfrew]

So we can pop into CoTesbury's in No 2s and No (whatever DPM is) uniforms but not in No 14 Uniform? Anyone know why?

[ZH875]

So we can pop into CoTesbury's in No 2s and No (whatever DPM is) uniforms but not in No 14 Uniform? Anyone know why?

Because unlike the RAF being run by aircrew, CoTesbury's is run by ex-groundcrew, and you know what we think about gro-bags. :)


let the fighting begin.

[strek]

Interestingly while based at Abbey Wood I went home in uniform via Sainsbury's to do the weekly shop (the joys of Food Allowance) and this obviously included wine.

I was informed at the checkout that I was not allowed to be sold alcohol as I was in uniform. After a short "chat" with the store manager it transpired that this is policy for the police. I did point out that the gore-tex I was wearing said ROYAL NAVY on the front and offered the good ID card and trundled off with my wine and apology.

Whilst unimpressed at first it is maybe difficult for a new checkout operator who is only told 'do not serve people in uniform'...

Strek

[Howard Hughes]

was utterly appalled to witness officers, even Sqn Ldrs, wearing flying suits in the bar
****e, in the cousins military it is almost a pre-requisite to drink in uniform...;)

Especially their Navy!:rolleyes:

PS: What happened? I laid down for a rest in JB and woke up in the military forum!:eek:

[Basil]

it transpired that this is policy for the police
WTF has it to do with Sainsburys?
If the Police rule is no buying booze whilst in uniform then that is up to the individual police officer and Chief Constable; hardly any business of the retailer.
I'm ex Army, MN and RAF and have bought and imbibed alcoholic drinks in uniform in public on numerous occasions.
I'm beginning to understand what makes old men grumpy :*
p.s. One Boss did require us to remove GrowBags when exiting the Argosy even on other RAF stations. Just as well fighter jocks didn't have the same rule before reaching for the yellow & black handle :}

Oops! Basil was wrong :\

Stones Justices Manual Vol I

6-783 178. Offences in relation to constables. If the holder of a justices' licence —
(a) knowingly suffers to remain on the licensed premises any constable during any part of the time appointed for the constable's being on duty, except for the purposes of the execution of the constable's duty, or
(b) supplies any liquor or refreshment, whether by way of gift or sale, to any constable on duty except by authority of a superior officer of the constable, or
(c) bribes or attempts to bribe any constable,
he shall be liable, to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

(which, coincidentally is the same penalty as for permitting licenced premises to be a brothel :O )

[Roland Pulfrew]

CoTesbury's is run by ex-groundcrew, and you know what we think about gro-bags
ZH, surely that should read CoTesbury's shelves are stacked by ex-groundcrew ;)
I know, I'll get my flying jacket.......

[orgASMic]

I think the rule about not selling booze to rozzers in uniform is a condition of the license to sell alcohol, not any free-thinking by the retailer.

It will be interesting to see if any more shop assistants start taking the law into their own hands and refusing to serve us. But what hope of a discrimination case being upheld?

Whilst shopping in Sainsbury's in Uxbridge recently wearing blues I was asked by the girl on the checkout "Are you a security guard?". I explained that I was in the RAF. She looked puzzled and did not seem to know of the existence of RAF Uxbridge (all of 1/2 a mile away) nor its attendant uniformed personnel, who are regularly seen out and about the local area in uniform.

[Wensleydale]

Flying suit is not an official uniform - it is a "coverall" and therefore only to be worn at work. Wearing of official "uniform" is now OK out and about due to the lack of IRA etc. However the consumption of alcohol in public by persons in uniform is discouraged.

On a different tack, note that the Boss of Harrods has decreed that military personnel in military uniform are not to be admitted to his shop because it may panic his customers. (A thread from last year I seem to recall). Personally I would deport the damned grocer at the first oportunity.:yuk:

[stickmonkeytamer]

What I really detest is people walking about town without headdress on... that is all the public may see of us- make the effort!!

No- Alphas cannot be worn in the high street with a flying suit...

SMT

[Roland Pulfrew]

Flying suit is not an official uniform - it is a "coverall" and therefore only to be worn at work

Wensleydale. IIRC the Flying Suit (not coverall) is in fact designated No 14 Uniform - a change that occured in the mid/late 90s and again, IIRC, was something to do with captured behind enemy lines and being out of uniform. Under these circumstances you may not be afforded the protection of the Geneva Convention or something along those lines.

[FATTER GATOR]

'On a different tack, note that the Boss of Harrods has decreed that military personnel in military uniform are not to be admitted to his shop because it may panic his customers. (A thread from last year I seem to recall). Personally I would deport the damned grocer at the first oportunity.':yuk: Today 12:08

Agreed. And make the pr!ck pay for his own personal enquiry into a drunk-driving incident which happened 10 years ago. F$£%ing c*ck.

Can he be guilty of treason? I'm not sure given his nationality.

Rant complete.

[TheStrawMan]

Might I suggest you keep a burka in the boot of your car and slip it on before buying petrol or popping into Harrods for a little prezzy for the wife.

[Mad_Mark]

Flying suit is not an official uniform - it is a "coverall" and therefore only to be worn at work.

****e! In that case I must have been incorrectly dressed for the past X years - I was supposed to wear my flying "coverall" over my blues!

For, cheesy, that is what coveralls do, they are a cover for all normal clothing. I think you'll find that the RAF No 14 uniform (i.e. flying suit") is designed to be worn over issued survival clothing - i.e. long-johns, vest and roll-neck shirt, not over my No 2 uniform. If I take my No 14 uniform off I will be unsuitably dressed to go out in public. If you take off a coverall you should be wearing clothing suitable to be seen in public underneath.

I know what some bitter "I failed aircrew selection - but will never admit that I even applied" groundies will say - "most of us only wear boxers and t-shirts under our coveralls". But that is personal choice. The coverall is designed to be worn over your blues, flying suits are not.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[TonkaEngO]

1hr 20 flash to bang

Good drills

[Winch-control]

Back on thread...AS an off-licence you are not permitted to sell alcohol to on-duty in uniform Police Officers, (Question the reason why by all means!) This Guy has simply read the 'uniforms' bit and applied his (limited) knowledge across the board. OOps, error, should have been end of story. However, when you get the press and 'growbags' involved, there you go....

[Two's in]

is now OK out and about due to the lack of IRA etc.

Now there's an assumption...

[South Bound]

Reports I heard about suggested said salesperson was ranting on about not agreeing with the War in Iraw/Afg etc. Witness statements to that effect, but clearly only second hand.

[Wensleydale]

Mad Mark.

I have just been down to my locker to look at the label inside my flying suit. It states:

Product Coverall Aircrew Mk14.

So perhaps before you start mouthing off you should check what you wear. Otherwise one talks like a .....

I accept that the fact it is now a uniform may have changed since my training days many years ago, but the stock name remains. I remember flying with a "coverall" over my blues (although far too many years ago) and accepted that we couldn't wear them down town for that reason.:ok:

Withdraw pin and roll slowly.....

[Kitbag]

No 14 Dress from the appropriate document.

Occasions for wear.
No 14 Dress is worn by all ranks, when actively employed on flying duties unless otherwise ordered. It is not to be worn routinely in off base areas

As the guy was in the Army it isn't really relevant, now lets get back to bashing the ungrateful civvie population rather than a 'my uniform is more exclusive than yours' argument.

[Mike Read]

When I worked for an airline a "policeman's change" was slipping off your uniform jacket and into a civvy one so you could stop off for a cooling half at the end of a hard day. So most of us kept a scruffy jacket in our cars!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I always wear a fleece over my flying suit whenever I travel to/from my place of work. If anyone seriously believes that all terrorist threats have gone away with the standing down of PIRA..................:ugh:

PS I love the fact that any mention of flying suits seems to enrage those not entitled to wear one to the point they almost self combust in their rush to argue the toss.............me I couldn't give a **** as I am allowed to wear it pretty much anywhere on my unit which definitely proves it ain't a coverall:p

[TonkaEngO]

Seldom,
Look closely, the only people getting uptight about it are the ones that wear them


Crack on.......

[Kitbag]

TonkaEngO :D


The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
This incident is an affront to all members of HM Forces, get back to the thread. I know I would have been a little less than speechless if someone had pulled that on me.

[PTT]

The officer in question should have informed said BP sales assistant that we only went to war for the purpose of oil anyway, so he has a job because we did our job! :rolleyes::ok:

[Runaway Gun]

Maybe if he wore a sidearm the guy wouldn't have been so blatantly cheeky...

[Green Flash]

Obviously BP can do without our hard earned cash. Fair enough. Boycott BP. Pass it on.

[FlyerFoto]

Surely if the attendant was so far up his religious and/or moral *rse as to not want to serve the guy, he shouldn't have been working in a place where they sold alcohol anyway - a touch of the good old corner-shop attitude - 'we're not allowed to touch the stuff, but we're sure as hell going to make money out of those that do'

Hypocritical tw*ts!!!

[doubledolphins]

The explanation is rather weak unless the server was from a country where the diferences between Police and Army are less well defined than here.


PS. Matelots often go on organised "Rig Runs" whilst on official visits etc.:ok:

[Al R]

Monkey tamer said:
What I really detest is people walking about town without headdress on... that is all the public may see of us- make the effort!!

Bang on. I will head back from the gym tonight, and I just know that at the the supermarket or outside the chippy, in public view will be a couple of wretched erks or sallow faced teenage matelots.. hands in pockets, chewing chips like BSE infected cattle at the cud, generally whingeing like f:mad:k about being told to do something that they 'didn't join up for' and generally, looking absolutely.. PATHETIC. The SWO needs to get his arse down there pronto and double them back to the unit to be locked up, or is that intruding on their human rights, the poor little poppets.

As for the chap in question, anyone who uses BP fullstop needs to ask themselves what planet they're on. They supported the Nazis, they arranged to supply the Kaiser's Navy, they trample over Alaska, SA and the Middle East with a dissregard that even other oil companies find dreadful and as we saw from the fine handed down to them yesterday, they don't give a damn about their workers in the States, so why should they care about this. BP is the only fuel card I haven't got. I would rather juice up with Tesco muck than stop at BP.

[Runaway Gun]

So wearing a uniform is good enough for when you are representing your country (which is also the whinge-arses country) and possibly getting shot at when doing so, but you can't buy groceries like any other citizen? Ooh - a bottle of wine.... bad man.

[Basil]

Basil said:
WTF has it to do with Sainsburys?
If the Police rule is no buying booze whilst in uniform then that is up to the individual police officer and Chief Constable; hardly any business of the retailer.

Oops! Basil was wrong :\

Stones Justices Manual Vol I
6-783 178. Offences in relation to constables. If the holder of a justices' licence —
(a) knowingly suffers to remain on the licensed premises any constable during any part of the time appointed for the constable's being on duty, except for the purposes of the execution of the constable's duty, or
(b) supplies any liquor or refreshment, whether by way of gift or sale, to any constable on duty except by authority of a superior officer of the constable, or
(c) bribes or attempts to bribe any constable,
he shall be liable, to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

(which, coincidentally is the same penalty as for permitting licenced premises to be a brothel :O )

So the salesman MAY have misunderstood the law after all.

[HAL9000]

Haven't read all the previous posts so apologies if I am repeating something but if a flying coverall is not a uniform does that mean all aircrew that find themselves in enemy territory can be shot as spies?

[C130 Techie]

So the salesman MAY have misunderstood the law after all.

Yeh Right:yuk:

[cockanelli]

Basil,

When were you last in the Air Force. As long as there is top cover, you can be in the Bar in uniform and drinking!! at whatever time you like. Bugger all this "An officer must be smart at all times". It is a home for the livers-in. I'll bet you don't dress up to have a glass of wine or beer in your lounge of an evening?

[Basil]

you can be in the Bar in uniform and drinking
1. I don't believe I said otherwise.
2. What is your interpretation of :p:p ?
As long as there is top cover
Ooohh! :p

[AC Ovee]

It is a home for the livers-in. I'll bet you don't dress up to have a glass of wine or beer in your lounge of an evening?

I've lost count of the number of times that I've heard that nonsense. Please tell me that you are not a senior officer or MACR. I expect that kind of rubbish from JOs and sgts

As a liver-in, your home is behind your front door, which is the door to your room(s). The bar is a public room; the dining room and ante-room likewise. One benefit of living in is that you live very close to the nearest boozer, but that doesn't make it an extension to your home.

The problem with this thread is that the original poster used the words, "growbag" in the title thus attracting a discussion. The situation in the filling station, wrt CS95, has been discussed to the point of tedium.

Regarding the wearing of flying suits off base, the rules have been reproduced in this discussion and are quite clear. On base, in the bar, individual messes have the right through general meetings to decide what is acceptable dress in their public rooms.

[teeteringhead]

...not allowed to buy or consume alcohol in uniform .... ... blimey!

That'll make for a few quiet squadron weddings....... :E

[kkbuk]

AC ovee,
So only senior officers dress in a smart and appropriate manner in their messes? Tell that to the Marines, as the old saw has it! Most of the senior ranks messes to which I have belonged had a strict dress code which no-one was allowed to break. I did visit an RAF senior ranks mess one evening and was confronted by a pair of aged old buffers wearing open-necked shirts and slippers, so there may well be a problem peculiar to the RAF!:E

[cockanelli]

AC Ovee, I live out but I also understand that I don't have to dress up to go to my local pub or out to my local resteraunt for dinner and therefore the livers in shouldn't have to either, no matter how close it is.

[buoy15]

kkbuk
What mess would that be then? - the RAF Club or the 51 Sqn crew-room?
Junior Ranks, SNCO's and Officers, yes! - never heard of a Senior Ranks mess
But back to the thread - "The Mess is 'Home' to the livers-in and a social venue for all Officers and their families" - which is enshrined in most Officers' Mess Rules.
However (comma) over the sad years, thanks to H&S, Food Act, staff attitudes, and piss poor performances of PMC's, the livers-in are treated like stand-ins for Rising Damp
I suspect that they rebel by being stupid enough to test the system by dressing like pratts and exploiting their 'freedom to roam' without realising the consequences, despite what they were taught at Cranditz - their argument possibly, when caught in the Ante-Room improperly dressed - "My trainers alone cost more than your suit, and by the way, this is my home - anyway, who are you, and I'm not sure what room I'm in - are the public allowed in?"
And then they go to Happy Hour to have few beers, get really stupid and de-brief their RO's before retiring to their very basic 0* room for which the Mess charges visitors about £48 - room only
Such fun
ISK O'Mess is a mess, and I empathise with the singlies

[circle kay]

buoy15,
had the PMC just kicked you out or had you had a long afternoon in the Rugby Club before posting that rant at 11 last night? In yesterdays Sun Mr J Carkson urged his readers to exercise the right not to shop at a certain BP station. He even quoted the address. Mr C is always very well informed on HM Forces matters, perhaps he reads the likes of here and the outher forces forums?

[Basil]

basic 0* room for which the Mess charges visitors about £48 - room only
I don't think so :hmm:

I presume kkbuk refers to the SNCOs' Mess where, during the course of visits, I have always been treated courteously by smartly dressed members.

[C130 Techie]

Once again a perfectly good thread has degenerated into a pathetic squabble about flying suits and Mess dress standards. I have listened to the same old whinging for the last 30 years now and it doesn't change.

Given the level of childishness is it any wonder that the publics perception of the military is so poor.

This thread is about our right to be seen in public in uniform and to go into shops etc without being challenged or discriminated against by some opinionated upstart.

The excuse given by BP for this incident was pathetic and I for one will not be using BP service stations in the future.

[barnstormer1968]

Having heard this story on the radio, I had an instant idea of what may have occured. But having gone through all of the above post's, with the typical PPRuNe thread creep, I have several issue with the whole uniform outdoor thing.
I will admit to being bias (being ex army), so I am usually very pleased to do anything for serving military, and like to see you folks out and about in uniform. No, I have never worked in a shop, so can't speak for shop workers, but can often find them very uninterested or narrow minded myself.
BUT I agree with some of the above post's in that I really dont like to see folks on the street in unifrorm that could give the local down and outs a run for their money in the scruffyness stakes.
I was very proud to serve this country, and only wish more of the population could have the same values, and discipline that we (ex, and serving) show to each other, value, and live by. But then on the other hand, I was about to buy my first poppy of the year last week, while in a supermarket. In the queue behind me was a young soldier, whom could hardly dress himself, and looked a totally mess, (I can honestly say, that I had looked smarter after two weeks in the field, that this bloke just out of camp). It was such a poor advert for the forces that I didn't buy my poppy there, as I didnt want to be associated with him. So if I feel like that, how do "jo public" feel.
Overall, I still have massive respect for our armed forces, and am grateful for what they give/endure on my behalf, with little or no backing from the current government. But can any of you folks, who have any influence do anything to smarten up some of the creatures wandering around almost inside of their wrinkled 95's. (and yes I'm sure it may affect their human right's if you say anything)

And as for that particular service station, "stuff them". If the staff don't understand that they can refuse someone in uniform, and have no nasty come back, then they are clearly missing the freedom they have IN THIS COUNTRY (provided courtesy of H.M. forces)

Sorry. rant over.

Barnstormer1968