FAA Instrument Rating incl. conversion from JAA: merged threads

[Static unstability]

What do I need to do to get my FAA Instrument Rating current, haven't been flying with my FAA Instrument Rating since 2000??

[manfromuncle]

FAR 61.57

(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought—
(i) At least six instrument approaches;
(ii) Holding procedures; and
(iii) Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation systems.
(2) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in a glider, performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions—
(i) At least 3 hours of instrument time in flight, of which 11/2hours may be acquired in an airplane or a glider if no passengers are to be carried; or
(ii) 3 hours of instrument time in flight in a glider if a passenger is to be carried.
(d) Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) of this section within the prescribed time, or within 6 calendar months after the prescribed time, may not serve as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR until that person passes an instrument proficiency check consisting of a representative number of tasks required by the instrument rating practical test.
(1) The instrument proficiency check must be—
(i) In an aircraft that is appropriate to the aircraft category;
(ii) For other than a glider, in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category; or
(iii) For a glider, in a single-engine airplane or a glider.
(2) The instrument proficiency check must be given by—
(i) An examiner;
(ii) A person authorized by the U.S. Armed Forces to conduct instrument flight tests, provided the person being tested is a member of the U.S. Armed Forces;
(iii) A company check pilot who is authorized to conduct instrument flight tests under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter or subpart K of part 91 of this chapter, and provided that both the check pilot and the pilot being tested are employees of that operator or fractional ownership program manager, as applicable;
(iv) An authorized instructor; or
(v) A person approved by the Administrator to conduct instrument practical tests.

[Phil77]

Federal Aviation Administration Instrument Proficiency Check (IPC) Guidance:
http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/media/IPC_Guidance.pdf

The internet is so comprehensive and this forum is so great you don't even have type in the searchword yourself! :E

[Static unstability]

Thanks for the answears!

So if I understood it right you can do your FAA helicopter Instrument Proficiency Check (IPC) with an CFII, in a helicopter, helicopter simulator or helicopter flight training device. Do anybodu know if it´s possible to do it somewhere in Europe?

Thanks,

[Gomer Pylot]

Note that you don't have to have an IPC. You can do the things required in paragraph C and be current. An IPC will give you all those things and provide currency, but it isn't required. You just have to have 6 instrument appproaches, holding, tracking, and intercept. Tracking and intercept are a given for any approach, so you just have to do a hold in addition to the 6 approaches. Those can be done in a sim anywhere, AFAIK.

[SASless]

Small point but.....if one is flying IMC, meets the FAA flight time and other requirements for currency.....using a non-FAA license (ala UK CPL or ATPL)....is one not current under the FAA License assuming one holds a current FAA medical, has had a Flight Review within the past two years?

[BIGJOCK]

Well spotted Phil77 ,the FAA produce many great publications .They are also more black-white than JAA/CAA. One can download almost all their books and for FREE. Ok CAA are getting better but a long way to go !!

[Static unstability]

So, to be current on my FAA Instrument Rating (haven't been flying any approaches/IFR om my FAA licence since 2000) I have to:

1) Valid FAA Medical
2) Bi-annual Flight Review
3) 6 approaches, holding, tracking and intercept with an CFII

or

IPC(Instrument Proficiency Check) with an CFII

The flying could be performed in a real helicopter or in a Simulator. What is the definitions of an approved Simulator for this purpose? Is a Flight Training Device Ok?

Thanks!

[manfromuncle]

If you converting your FAA IR to a JAA one you do not need to be current.

[Static unstability]

manfromuncle,

I think you need to be current when you convert a FAA Instrument Rating to a JAA one. At least I think it is the way they interpret it in Norway and Sweden.

[manfromuncle]

An FAA IR is always "current" as it does not have an expiration date, as does a JAA IR

The six approaches etc rule only applies to being PIC under IFR.

[JaredYng]

Is the instrument rating for helicopters the same for fixed wing?

I ask because I'm starting my ppl fixed wing and then I want to get my instrument rating then my cpl fixed wing. Once this is complete I will do the rotor cpl add-on.

Does anyone see a problem with this? I want my f/w and r/w licenses and I think this is the best way to go about it. Please advise if this is not the case.

Thanks

[KrisRamJ]

The RTC instrument rating is different to the FW one, yes.

The best path after your FW commercial would be to 'start again' and get a private RTC add-on, then instrument rating, then finally commercial.

You need 30hrs minimum for the private, but most people tend to take about 40. You need 15 for the RTC instrument add-on and most FW instrument pilots do it in around that time. Finally you need 50hrs RTC for the commercial, 35 of which must be PIC. You'll get 15 PIC during the IR which leaves 20hrs to fly to get your commercial. You'll go over that by at least 10 hrs, partly because you need 20hrs of dual, 10hrs solo, 10hrs xc, 2 long xc's etc and also because you'll probably need the extra instruction to get good enough to pass a commercial ride.

To be honest I'd be inclined to choose *either* FW or RTC though. I have seen several examples of interference between FW and RTC. It doesn't tend to manifest itself during normal operations, but in moments of stress I found that FW pilots reverted to their 'inbuilt' FW instincts (for example - pushing cyclic forward and/or pulling pitch when the engine 'fails'). If you have a good reason for getting dual rated then go ahead though...

[JaredYng]

So if I were to start with FW should I just do the private then the RTC add-on then RTC instrument rating then RTC commercial?

The reason I want to do the FW private is because there is a school about 5 miles down the road that is $110/ hour. I don't want to fly FW for a living just hobby. I want to fly helicopters for a living but I'm trying to get there as cheap as possible. Given that I can't move for about a year and there is no helicopter flight school here would this be the best way to go? Private FW then move and do the RTC elsewhere?

They said I need minimum 40 hrs for private FW then 40 more for FW instrument.

I guess I just need some advice on how to get started. Thanks

[KrisRamJ]

If you want to fly helicopters then stick with helicopters would be my advice. Going FW first will give you some reductions but in the long term it will probably work out to be slightly more expensive.

I'll explain why - if you want to get work as a helicopter pilot then you'll need over 1000 hrs to be employable. When you have completed your commercial checkride then you'll have around 150 hrs helicopter flight time total (you'll have even less if you do fixed wing first).

As you can see there's an 850hr gap right there between having the commercial rating and being 'employable'. Most people bridge this gap by getting an Certified Flight Instructor (CFI) rating, that takes about 10-15 hours flight time and is a lot of ground school, maybe 2-3 months total, but it will allow you to work as a CFI and teach people to fly.

That's where the hours get you again though, because most flight schools require you to have 200hrs helicopter time to get on their insurance. If you have a good relationship with your flight school then they'll let you do non-training flights and fly with other students to build hours to the 200 mark.

Even if you were at 165 when you got your CFI though then there's 35 more hours you need to fly to get to 200. Sometimes you'll need to pay something towards these, sometimes you'll get to fly for free, it all depends on the relationship you have with your flight school.

Once you start as a CFI then it's not amazing money, around $20 an hour, but it makes a pleasant change to get paid to fly! You also learn a lot, it really solidifies everything you've studied during your ratings.

If you work hard then you'll pass 1000 hrs within 1-2 years and that puts you in the position of being able to apply for work offshore or tours in the Grand Canyon or maybe even a summer season in AK - all typical entry level jobs, and all around the $50k/year mark.

Hope that's helpful. I'd think long and hard about doing the fixed wing, it's a common misconception that you need FW to fly helicopters and that's just not the case. If you really want to fly both I'd personally do it the other way around - do all the RTC stuff to CFI then get a job at a school that has a FW and do your FW ratings at a reduced rate.

That said, there are some advantages to doing FW private first - you'll learn some transferable skills such as basic flying skills, radio work, weather and decision making. I found my add-on students would take about 10 hrs less than people who had never flown, but then they ended up having to fly those 10hrs at the other end to get a job as a CFI...

[TwinHueyMan]

I say do Comm and Inst as a little bundle... the school I went to reccomended most do it that way, as you get a much better handle on the helicopter during commercial level training, which helps during the IFR stuff, which then helps on your commercial stuff. Win win all around. Most guys would start on Instruments when the commercial syllabus brought it around (about 100-120 hours total), keep an occasional VFR flight in there, take the IFR checkride, then hit the commercial shortly thereafter. If you really applied yourself, you could do the CFI training in there too, and end up taking the CFI the week after the Comm, and the CFII shortly after that. Ended up with somewhere around 200 hours and rusty on nothing.

The 20-30 some odd hours in the commercial training definately helped me when I went to try and fly off the panel. Was far more comfortable with the helicopter, and when I went back to VFR, I was even better off on the commercial flying side.

Mike

[OEI]

Hi everyone,
Does anyone out there know what's involved in converting a JAA instrument rating to an FAA one?

[hands_on123]

Firstly you need either a FAA PPL or a FAA CPL. I think you need to fulfill the minimum requirements as laid down in the FARs, sit the FAA IR ground exam, then do 3 hours training, then sit the FAA IR flight test.

But don't quote me, maybe read these too...

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/232633-jaa-ir-conversion-faa-ir.html

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/253462-jaa-ir-courses-including-converting-faa-ir-jaa-ir-merged-2.html


FAA IR requirements here:


----

Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 61—CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS
Subpart B—Aircraft Ratings and Pilot Authorizations

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§ 61.65 Instrument rating requirements.

(a) General. A person who applies for an instrument rating must:

(1) Hold at least a private pilot certificate with an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift rating appropriate to the instrument rating sought;

(2) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet any of these requirements due to a medical condition, the Administrator may place such operating limitations on the applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft;

(3) Receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or accomplish a home-study course of training on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph (b) of this section that apply to the instrument rating sought;

(4) Receive a logbook or training record endorsement from an authorized instructor certifying that the person is prepared to take the required knowledge test;

(5) Receive and log training on the areas of operation of paragraph (c) of this section from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device that represents an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift appropriate to the instrument rating sought;

(6) Receive a logbook or training record endorsement from an authorized instructor certifying that the person is prepared to take the required practical test;

(7) Pass the required knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph (b) of this section; however, an applicant is not required to take another knowledge test when that person already holds an instrument rating; and

(8) Pass the required practical test on the areas of operation in paragraph (c) of this section in—

(i) An airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift appropriate to the rating sought; or

(ii) A flight simulator or a flight training device appropriate to the rating sought and for the specific maneuver or instrument approach procedure performed. If an approved flight training device is used for the practical test, the instrument approach procedures conducted in that flight training device are limited to one precision and one nonprecision approach, provided the flight training device is approved for the procedure performed.

(b) Aeronautical knowledge. A person who applies for an instrument rating must have received and logged ground training from an authorized instructor or accomplished a home-study course on the following aeronautical knowledge areas that apply to the instrument rating sought:

(1) Federal Aviation Regulations of this chapter that apply to flight operations under IFR;

(2) Appropriate information that applies to flight operations under IFR in the “Aeronautical Information Manual;”

(3) Air traffic control system and procedures for instrument flight operations;

(4) IFR navigation and approaches by use of navigation systems;

(5) Use of IFR en route and instrument approach procedure charts;

(6) Procurement and use of aviation weather reports and forecasts and the elements of forecasting weather trends based on that information and personal observation of weather conditions;

(7) Safe and efficient operation of aircraft under instrument flight rules and conditions;

(8) Recognition of critical weather situations and windshear avoidance;

(9) Aeronautical decision making and judgment; and

(10) Crew resource management, including crew communication and coordination.

(c) Flight proficiency. A person who applies for an instrument rating must receive and log training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, or in a flight simulator or flight training device, in accordance with paragraph (g) of this section, that includes the following areas of operation:

(1) Preflight preparation;

(2) Preflight procedures;

(3) Air traffic control clearances and procedures;

(4) Flight by reference to instruments;

(5) Navigation systems;

(6) Instrument approach procedures;

(7) Emergency operations; and

(8) Postflight procedures.

(d) Aeronautical experience for the instrument-airplane rating. A person who applies for an instrument-airplane rating must have logged:

(1) Fifty hours of cross country flight time as pilot in command, of which 10 hours must have been in an airplane; and

(2) Forty hours of actual or simulated instrument time in the areas of operation listed in paragraph (c) of this section, of which 15 hours must have been received from an authorized instructor who holds an instrument-airplane rating, and the instrument time includes:

(i) Three hours of instrument flight training from an authorized instructor in an airplane that is appropriate to the instrument-airplane rating within 2 calendar months before the date of the practical test; and

(ii) Instrument flight training on cross country flight procedures, including one cross country flight in an airplane with an authorized instructor, that is performed under instrument flight rules, when a flight plan has been filed with an air traffic control facility, and that involves—

(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.

(e) Aeronautical experience for the instrument-helicopter rating. A person who applies for an instrument-helicopter rating must have logged:

(1) Fifty hours of cross country flight time as pilot in command, of which 10 hours must have been in a helicopter; and

(2) Forty hours of actual or simulated instrument time in the areas of operation listed under paragraph (c) of this section, of which 15 hours must have been with an authorized instructor who holds an instrument-helicopter rating, and the instrument time includes:

(i) Three hours of instrument flight training from an authorized instructor in a helicopter that is appropriate to the instrument-helicopter rating within 2 calendar months before the date of the practical test; and

(ii) Instrument flight training on cross country flight procedures, including one cross country flight in a helicopter with an authorized instructor that is performed under instrument flight rules and a flight plan has been filed with an air traffic control facility, and involves—

(A) A flight of 100 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.

(f) Aeronautical experience for the instrument-powered-lift rating. A person who applies for an instrument-powered-lift rating must have logged:

(1) Fifty hours of cross country flight time as pilot in command, of which 10 hours cross country must have been in a powered-lift; and

(2) Forty hours of actual or simulated instrument time in the areas of operation listed under paragraph (c) of this section, of which 15 hours must have been received from an authorized instructor who holds an instrument-powered-lift rating, and the instrument time includes:

(i) Three hours of instrument flight training from an authorized instructor in a powered-lift that is appropriate to the instrument-powered-lift rating within 2 calendar months before the date of the practical test; and

(ii) Instrument flight training on cross country flight procedures, including one cross country flight in a powered-lift with an authorized instructor that is performed under instrument flight rules, when a flight plan has been filed with an air traffic control facility, that involves—

(A) A flight of 250 nautical miles along airways or by directed routing from an air traffic control facility;

(B) An instrument approach at each airport; and

(C) Three different kinds of approaches with the use of navigation systems.

(g) Use of flight simulators or flight training devices. If the instrument time was provided by an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device—

(1) A maximum of 30 hours may be performed in that flight simulator or flight training device if the instrument time was completed in accordance with part 142 of this chapter; or

(2) A maximum of 20 hours may be performed in that flight simulator or flight training device if the instrument time was not completed in accordance with part 142 of this chapter.

(h) Use of an aviation training device. A maximum of 10 hours of instrument time received in an aviation training device may be credited for the instrument time requirements of this section if—

(1) The device is approved and authorized by the FAA;

(2) An authorized instructor provides the instrument time in the device;

(3) No more than 10 hours of instrument time in a flight simulator or flight training device was credited for the instrument time requirements of this section;

(4) A view-limiting device was worn by the applicant when logging instrument time in the device; and

(5) The FAA approved the instrument training and instrument tasks performed in the device.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61–103, 62 FR 40900, July 30, 1997; Amdt. 61–124, 74 FR 42554, Aug. 21, 2009; Amdt. 61–127, 76 FR 19267, Apr. 7, 2011]

[OEI]

Thanks a million for your post hands on. It's a great help.