Linton Closure

[foormort]

Did I hear correctly that under the latest round of cost savings in FY08 that Linton is to close and BFTS will relocate to Valley? Good or bad for those who currently instruct on the tincan at linton? Or just rumour?

[Fintastic]

I think that you may be mistaken, I'm pretty sure there is no real alternative when you consider the volume of the flying training task and its demands on runway space. Valley simply does not have the room.

[chevvron]

Might just as well re-locate to Shawbury. Lets re-open Swinderby.

[Green Flash]

Close Linton - re-open Church Fenton!:}

And how busy is the circuit traffic at Dishforth and Topcliffe?? I suppose that move's everything closer to Leeming.

[thunderbird7]

Excellent! Re-open Church Fenton! Brings back a tear to the eye ( and a headache ). Will there be a contingent from St James's at the re-opening ceremony.

[dagowly]

Might just as well re-locate to Shawbury

lets not. Helicopters around here already piss off the locals.

[PICKS135]

you might not want to re-open Church Fenton after you've seen the state of the accomodation
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=21294

[downsizer]

What's unusual about that, just like Lyneham:}

[Training Risky]

What the hell was that website, '28dayslater' all about?! A load of guys getting turned on by touring around old disused military bases?:8

[harrogate]

Why move everything closer to Leeming when it's apparently winding down? Tonkas gone next year, 100 Sqn hawks 5 years MAX left.

... but then we've not officially heard the 'shock' news about Leeming yet, have we?

Wait and see...

[The Adjutant]

Lets close Linton and reopen Syerston.
Anybody remember the short runway that comes in over the Foss Way or up the small cliff by the river Trent (depending on which way the wind was blowing of course.
I was the last bloke choped off the last course to go through Syerston and 2 FTS in 1969.
God I'm old.. but still alive, which I would't be if they had let me pass out of training.

[Roland Pulfrew]

The Adj

Sadly there isn't much left off Syerston, in fact even less than CF. The Os Mess is still there but sadly very derelict - last used as an Islamic School (Oh the irony). Most of the buildings on the technical side have been demolished by "parent" units. It is really strange driving onto base and round the standard one-way system when there are no buildings left.

Sadly the current, and previous, staish at Linton seems to have plans to do the same to CF. I understand that the old workshops, fire section and CofE church have all recently been demolished :{:{. So the last almost complete WWII Fighter pattern station succumbs to the RAB God and buildings built before WWII have to go so that we don't pay depreciation and cost of capital on them!! Criminal.

[Audax]

Call me a bluff old traditional airman but I think there are lots and lots of reasons why the Linton BFJT task can't be moved to Valley----I know, I know, good reasons never stood in the way of attempting to save money but here are some of them anyway:-

1. Insufficient runways in the Valley/Mona area to handle both the BFJT and AFT requirements safely.

2. Insufficient hangarage and repair shops at Valley.

3. Operating Area for Tucano? Not cleared for goon suit so for many months of the year limited to operating over land; this would put a lot of aircraft in a very small area of North Wales with the attendant dangers for ab-initio aircrew.

4. Large increase in the number of quarters and Mess rooms needed.

5. Should think the current civvy groundcrew at Linton will no want to move to Anglesey (ditto QFIs).

6. How does this fit in with MFTS? Presumably, the chosen bidder is assuming Linton will be the BFJT base (or have they been given the wink?).

7. Linton runway resurfaced and new single airmans block completed this year.

Possibly, the Sunday Times (who opened this particular can of worms) simply heard a training base is up for closure, put 2 & 2 together and made 5. A reasonable guess might be that one of C-Fenton, Topcliffe, Dishforth (runway only) or Syerston could be up for the chop.

[Wrathmonk]

Audax

Just out of curiosity, and not wanting to drag the thread off topic, but why isn't the Tucano cleared for goon suits? I've never flown it myself - is it a space limitation, a weight restriction, a "we're not issued with them" restriction or something else?

Back on thread - I don't think there is a cat in hells chance of BJFT moving from the Vale of York area. Having said that, your point 7 may be the final nail in the coffin - new accomodation. That'll be Linton handed over to the Donkey Wallopers then!

[spekesoftly]

Linton runway resurfaced ........The kiss of death to many previously closed RAF airfields!

[Elmlea]

Just out of curiosity, and not wanting to drag the thread off topic, but why isn't the Tucano cleared for goon suits? I've never flown it myself - is it a space limitation, a weight restriction, a "we're not issued with them" restriction or something else?
I believe it stems from a Tucano accident a while ago; the one about the prop blade leaving the aircraft during a spin. I've not read it for a while, but there was a comment about the front seat occupant's boot being damaged around the toe area. I can't remember if he was wearing an immersion suit, or if they postulated that it would have been damaged if he was.
Either way, one of the recommendations was to remove clearance to wear immersion suits until some sort of mod could be fitted. It doesn't seem to have come back, but that's presumably because they don't really fly over many large expanses of water.

[LateArmLive]

Didn't one of the Tucano delivery pilots perish in the Irish Sea many years ago? I'm sure it's said he would have survived longer had he been wearing an immersion suit.

[John Farley]

The pilot was Alan Deacon Shorts CTP and the aircraft crashed during flutter clearance trials of underwing stores. You are right he was not wearing an immersion suit.

JF

[Arclite01]

Why Syerston ??

Isn't it perfect for the task (ACCGS) ??

Where would they move the gliding task to ?

Arc

[skippedonce]

'So the last almost complete WWII Fighter pattern station succumbs'

RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey remains a near complete WWII Fighter station, to the point of retaining a grass runway. About the only new buildings on the site are a fourth hangar on the apron and a RApier simulator dome beside the ATC tower.

[Audax]

The problem with goon suits in the Tucano is to do with the break up of the canopy on ejection. Apparently the perspex disintegrates in such a manner that the suit would be torn and would fill with water on landing in the og---not a recommend technique for survival.

[LateArmLive]

JF - Thanks for the reply. I remember it being a tragic story, but the details were sketchy as it's been a while since I heard the story on groundschool.

Audax - I think I'm correct in saying that the canopy isn't cleared for fracturing in flight for the reason that the pilot will end up with shards of perspex in his chest. Not nice, although I can't think of many times I'd want to frag the canopy in flight. :eek:
Lots of happy memories of the Tucano, except for that damn slip ball........................

[Elmlea]

There's 2 sections to the front cockpit transparency. Only the section above the pilot's head fires on ejection, while the front section also fires if you use the fracture handle. That's the bit that would deposit big chunks of perspex in your chest.

Interestingly, I seem to remember the aircrew manual saying that there was "a high likelihood of serious injury to the front seat occupant during any ejection" or words to that effect. :uhoh:

[BluntM8]

Elmlea, in both yours and my current roles the dangers of front seat ejection ought not to be a concern that often! :E

Doesn't the front canopy split along the centre during ejection, and get pushed aside by the seat as it travels upwards? I seem to remember the comparision between the splitting canopy and a bug's wing case as it opens!

Agreed, I'd be most dis-inclined to use the canopy fracture in flight! Is there not a hawk drill which invloves manual bale out that way, though?

Blunty.

[Elmlea]

Blunty, it has linear cutting cord rather than MDC, which burns the canopy down to a tiny thickness along its length. The idea, I think, is that the airflow over the canopy assists in pulling it open; the reason the front seat had sharp canopy breakers rather than rounded ones was in case the canopy failed to fracture at all, as it's markedly thicker than the back seat. That was why it was so important to sit at the right height in the front- I wouldn't want my head trying to open that canopy before the breakers had done their job!

I think the Hawk "seat fails to fire" option involved disconnecting your PSP, fracturing the canopy, turning upside down, pulling the MOR handle and crossing your fingers. Mad, but better than the Tucano option of "pull again, harder!"

While the back seat might be ostensibly safer in an ejection, I'm very aware that it's very close to the front seat that generates all these lethal daggers of perspex.... good job you get 1.4 seconds to get away! :uhoh:

[klingonbc]

Audax, WTF does Syerston have to do with FT. Isn't it the Central Gliding School for the Air Cadets which = Youth Organisation not RAF, even though a high percentage of future mil types emerge from that organisation?

[Audax]

Klingonbc, if you'd bothered to read my post correctly, I didn't say Syerston was involved in FT as such. I said it was a training base, which if you look at the websites concerning Syerston and the units flying from there, it surely is. As for the cadets being a Youth Organisation not RAF, why does the RAF have an Air Commodore Cadets who presumably oversees the ATC?

Syerston, at the last count was known as RAF Syerston and the photos of based aircraft show them with RAF serials-posibly a hint that if the MoD wishes to close Syerston, it can. Why not move the activities to an underused airfield with other military presence--Kirton in Lindsey springs to mind.

[Audax]

Stn Cdr at Linton has stated in local press that Linton is safe for the time being; quotes from the article:-

"Speculation that Linton is to close are unfounded"
"I can therefore confirm that rumours about the Tucano moving to RAF Valley in North Wales are unfounded"
"Because the basic training of UKMFTS is still under consideration I will expect to have a far clearer picture of RAF Linton-on-Ouse's long term role by next summer"

[ColinB]

I suspect Valley will not work, all the quarters were sold off and much of the camp is derelict The only service personnel are aircrew, the rest are Dara.
I could see Leeming being used, there would be no great upheaval and the large number of landing strips would be still be available.
I was at Linton in the early 60s and the area and station are a delight. The station had its own fishing rights on a stretch of the Ouse, and there's the rub can you imagine a modern training airfield on a low-lying area adjoining a river. I remember spending many days playing football at the side of the runway because flying was canceled due to bad visibility.
For personal reasons I hope it doesn't close but I fear for it. I always thought that someone up there had a love affair with Leeming, we shall see.

[Ash679]

Klingon BC,

Further to Audax's comments on Syerston, FYI, The Air Cadet Organisation, (ACO) which incorporates both the ATC and CCF (RAF), IS actually part of the RAF, albeit not the operational arm of course.

HQ Air Cadets (at Cranwell) is administered through No.22 (Training) Group, AOC 22 Gp is also AOC Air Cadets, and Commandant Air Cadets is a regular Air Cdre.

The Air Cadets Central Gliding School at Syerston (via Wg Cdr Fg at HQ AC) is commanded by a regular Wg Cdr, and the Chief Instructor is a regular Sqn Ldr. Understand that Syerston itself is administered as part of RAFC, it certainly used to commonly be referred to as "RAF Syerston", but more correctly as "RAFC Cranwell Syerston Detatchment" (that is what used to be on the gate).

Just like to clear up misconceptions - minor bugbear of mine you understand! :):):)

Cheers,
Ash679

PS) Hope the old place dosnt get closed - many happy hours spent there :(

[Rocket_123]

Church Fenton is still open! 3sqn 1 efts fly there along with Yorkshire Uni Air Squadron, and 9 AEF!

[Cyclone733]

Reopen Coltishall, there is bugger all traffic out that way. Just the occasional F-15 doing it's own thing to worry about. As for low level, there is a great route just between Norwich's two Cathedrals (ok pulling at straws for that part of the experience)

[Pieman007]

Is there any truth in the reports out there that Linton is closing after these latest RAF cuts? What will this mean for the lodger units and Church Fenton?

[High_Expect]

Also heard the same rumour on 'the island'

[airpolice]

With a recently resurfaced runway and an expensive new tower, it seems certain to close.

[KPax]

As alluded to in another thread, if we are only buying 20 something of the new Hawks, then that would leave plenty of room for the 20 something Tucano replacement at Valley, this would give a great saving by closing Lin, Cfn and Top. I think the PM said in SDSR that MFTSas subject of an ongoing process.

[airborne_artist]

Linton to close
With a recently resurfaced runway and an expensive new tower, it seems certain to close. The tower at the secret Somersetshire naval air station was re-done fairly recently, so the obvious solution would be to close Linton, and move them all to VL, which will otherwise close. Keep some LibDem voters happy :D

[Wensleydale]

No one appears to have mentioned the most obvious requirement for a basic training establishment - what is the availability of local nurses' homes near Valley? I gather that even the local SAR crews are having to get married to secure company on the Island.....:sad:

[footster]

The goverment look likely to give the Irish goverment £7bn to bail them out of their financial mess so supose they need to get it from somewhere so why not close more airbases. Obviously the defence of our country is of little importence compared to helping Ireland or alike in their eyes.

[Wyler]

Our Banks loaned the Irish Banks 142 Billion. If they go t!ts up you will all be flying hangliders and living in tents. Career politicians and Bankers......:ugh::ugh::mad:

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

even the local SAR crews are having to get married to secure company


...in fact it's got so bad that some people have even felt the need to change sex in order to improve their chances of finding a mate:oh::E

[exmover_and_happy]

you might not want to re-open Church Fenton after you've seen the state of the accomodation
http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/...ad.php?t=21294

One or two of those pictures look like the air movements airman's accommodation at RAF Aldergrove, circa 1978. I believe at that time the block had actually been turned down by the police dog handling section as unfit for the dogs.

(sorry for the thread hijack, I now return you to normal programming)

[Double Hush]

2014 -SARTU relocate to Shawbury. 203 Sqn disbanded with privatisation of SAR helos. SARForce HQ disbanded because, well, they never do anything anyway. The only helos left at Valley will be (possibly) a flight of the shiney new civvy SAR assets. Therefore, lots of space left on the west of the airfield, including that great white elephant, the SARForce building. With only a max of 28 Hawks for AFTS, there will be plenty of airspace for, what, 30 Tucanos? But, slow speed Tucanos in the circuit with high speed Hawks may be a non-starter. That may be why they are going to Valley next year to find out. That's my take on the rumour.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

DH,

Where have you been hiding? We could use you on the SAR-H thread!