First the Vulcan, but what next?

[Mark Nine]

If money and red-tape were no object, what in your opinion would be next?

To start the ball rolling, I would like to nominate a TSR 2 or a Mosquito.

[Al R]

There can be no reason why the MoD or CAA shouldn't allow Lightning should fly again. If we can allow a bomber in the air, why not a fighter??

[airborne_artist]

Agreed, the Mosquito, a real MRCA if ever there was one. Still staggering that during a period of massive development of engines and airframes, the Mossie held the speed record for quite a bit of WW2.

A private development that the War Office had turned down, but de Havilland continued with regardless. How would the war have changed if de Havilland had not had the guts to continue?

There's at least one in the museum at Salisbury Hall that could fly again. The very first Mossie is there, and I think that's unique, as the only prototype of a WW2 aircraft still preserved.

[RAFAT]

It has absolutely got to be a Lightning.

[syncro_single]

Got to be a Buccaneer and a Hunter :):):)

[on21]

Got to be a Lightning.

[Not_a_boffin]

What's happening with HHA's Bucc?

[ionagh]

It is so tempting to add another vote for the TSR2 but I really think that the Frightning deserves a place back in the UK skies.

[gareth herts]

Victor for me - and a Lightning of course!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I'd like another Avro.
Please may I have a York?
Be lucky
David
If not what about the fast taxy Victor, got to be close,
http://www.yorkshireairmuseum.co.uk/collections/aircraft/post_wwII_aircraft_info.asp?id=35

[Alber Ratman]

Latest gen on the HHA Bucc

http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/hangar/2006/bucc/bucc.htm

RAF Dogger Bank will not do much for the chance of English Electric's finest ever flying back in the UK .:oh:

[GeeRam]

There can be no reason why the MoD or CAA shouldn't allow Lightning should fly again.

Nothing to do with MoD.

CAA won't ever let a civvie Lightning fly in UK....fullstop.

Vulcan is flying because BAe agreed to DA, they flatly refuse to do so for a Lightning. There's also a bigs spares issue with a potential Lightning operation anyway, just about all, if not all lifed available spares are held by Thunder City in SA, although I believe AALO out in the USA has anything else left.

There's at least one in the museum at Salisbury Hall that could fly again.

Yes, and it was surveyed after the tragic loss of BAe's RR299 with a view to making potentially airworthy, but there was no finance available for any return to flight.
And on that subject, BAe have also withdrawn any type DA as well so this particular Mossie is the only candiate for a UK flying example. So, unless someone wants to donate a few million for it's restoration and probably subsequent donation to BBMF for operation......it ain't gonna happen.

[uk02048]

Has to be the other V at Brunty, given no money constraints.
Have to admit a rather tall order given the airframe, cracked conways and spares issues but has to be the most likely of unrealistic options. TSR2 no way.
Most likely of would be a Bucc.

[illuminate]

lightning without question

then buc

if money were really no option and CAA and BAe etc didnt cause concerns they it would have to be victor and the valiant at cosford, but lets be honest thats never going to happen.

If were all honest with the little troubles along 558s path its unlikely any project of this magnitude is likely to happen again.

anyone got anything newer on HHAs Buc?

Wonder why the lightning is such a no go in this country?

[FATTER GATOR]

Civil-Concorde

Military-Lightning


I thougth the Lightning wasn't allowed by the CAA because there is no available manufacturer support. Maybe someone can fill me in on that one. We have several that are a 'sticks-pull' away from being airborne.

[NDBDME]

Well done:D:Dhas to be lightning and Concorde:ok:

[225Turbo]

what about the rest of the V Force? after all we have a Battle of Britain flight from our History.

[Gp Capt L Mandrake]

Sorry chaps but you're all wrong. It has to be the Nimrod MR4A.

Best wishes

Toodle pip!

[GeeRam]

I thougth the Lightning wasn't allowed by the CAA because there is no available manufacturer support. Maybe someone can fill me in on that one. We have several that are a 'sticks-pull' away from being airborne.

See my post#12 above.

Although 2 x F.6's and a T.5 are a sticks-pull away in that they 'work' as fast taxi airframes, they havebeen maintained IIRC with that purpose, so the paperwork as needed by the CAA as 'flyers' isn't there.
Effectively they would have to undergo the same as XH558 with lifed papertrail components be refitted.........and there's your problem.

The AALO at Stennis may get the ex-Boscombe T.5 in the air one day, but otherwise, Thunder City in SA will likely remain the only place you'll see a flying Lightning.
On that I see IB is getting his hand in with some more Lightning flying again recently out there, to be seen on a BBC documentary about the earth this month sometime.

[South Bound]

Simple tastes and I don't know why exactly, but I would love to see a real Typhoon, invasion stripes, cannon and all....

[VitaminGee]

Sea Harrier (x25)!! :}:p

[GeeRam]

Simple tastes and I don't know why exactly, but I would love to see a real Typhoon, invasion stripes, cannon and all....

You might have a problem convincing RAFM Hendon to let this happen, seeing as they have the only surviving Tiffie....:}

However, US warbird collector Kermit Weeks has got a Napier-Sabre engined Tempest V on long term restoration to fly......but whether it will ever happen is another matter.

[kevrockjockuk01]

There is a certain airfield in Lincolnshire with an ex indian airforce tempest sat awaiting a engine (and two IL10 sturmoviks a long way from restoration) .... other than that its getting its CAA and that will be flying.
i think they are looking at maybe a sea fury engine in the states to turn big windmill , but i`m not sure.
Now that will be good !
Kev strickson:E

[windriver]

Gloster Javelin ...

[EyesFront]

Obviously the Lightning and Mosquito would have to be top of the list, but my shortlist would also have to include:

Beaufighter
Typhoon/Tempest
Walrus

If we're allowed to dream the impossible, I'd love to have seen:

TSR2
Avro Arrow
Boeing B36
SR53

[The AvgasDinosaur]

The Hanna family tribute F-4 project?
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Be lucky
David

[GrahamB73]

Are there any Valiant airframes left at all? If so, then my (hypothetical) choice would be completing the V "set" :D

Swiftly followed by Concorde.

[228 OCU]

An entire 1000 bomber raid at 500ft.
Just imagine the trouser stiffening sound of that lot...
Excuse me my liege, I must go and change my armour :ooh::ooh::ooh:.






If in doubt BANG OUT.

[Dr Jekyll]

Shackleton anyone?

If we can include new build/replicas.

Hornet
Halifax
Wellington
HP 42
Whirlwind (the WW2 one)

[TheStrawMan]

Gloster Meteor

http://www.vicflintham.co.uk/content/post-war-military-aircraft/meteor/met0d.jpg

Always trust the Strawman

[airborne_artist]

StrawMan

There's two Meteors in RAF colours still being operated by Martin Baker! No plans to withdraw them, either.

Info here (http://www.******************************/spotting/chalgrove.html)

[TheStrawMan]

Is there really, my apologies

[rockridge]

Whirlwind!!!!....

oops....taxy for one!

[LowObservable]

USA! :mad: Yeah!
http://sr71.net/Airplanes/XB-70/xb-70-3.jpg

wtf? THIS is not the pic I posted. Is this some kind of Project Suter thing?

[SVK]

Now that the Vulcan is back in the air, surely it has to be Concorde next.

I'd even settle for Marshall's returning the odd C130K to flight!

[Mark Nine]

Wife says Concorde and I would like to add the Shorts Stirling.

[Viola]

Sunderland

Anyone know Kermit Weeks really well?

[Green Flash]

Sunderland
Viola - beat me to it!:ok: Isn't there a Sandringham bobbing about off Oz?

[ComJam]

Concorde
Lightning
UK Phantom
:D

[The Helpful Stacker]

Either a Mossie or a Bristol Belvedere.

[r supwoods]

Halifax

Wellington

Westland Whirlwind

Defiant

[BEagle]

Concorde
Sea Venom (to join the excellent RNHF).
Hawker Tempest or Typhoon.

or, if one were to dream, the totally orgasmic Hornet F Mk 3!

[Guzlin Adnams]

Mossi, Wellington and a Typhoon (WW2). Tony Ditheridge from Hawker restorations mentioned the latter several years ago but he's busy with Hurricanes. There is apparently a Mossi somewhere in deepest darkest Suffolk being stored......love to see it.

[South Bound]

Mk 3 Chinook?

[Alber Ratman]

A Jaguar..

However the best airframes are now at Cosford and life histories have disappeared from my HAL 9000.

Some body asked me a question on techie gen to research a possible project.

It would be like the Lightning however. Complex airframe.

Plus almost 1 in 3 were lost in accidents............

[moggiee]

There are already Buccs and Lightnings flying on Capetown so surely they don't count?

XH558 is the ONLY flying Vulcan so we should be considering unique aeroplanes.
As said before Javelin, Mosquito (my choice), TSR2, Victor etc.

Or how about a Valiant - the only V bomber that ever actually dropped a nuke?

[fergineer]

Ah the BP Defiant.......Did a lot of research on it way back in 71 when we changed the name of our barrack block at Halton from Dominee to Defiant....think I still have some of the paperwork here with me somewhere including I think a photo.
Agree with the Mossie what about some of our other transports.....the Argosy ahhh the boost of water meth.....the hastings......The Brit one of which flew into Kemble not so many years ago.....Beverly.....in fact why not get one of each that the RAF have flown over the years and keep the memories flying one and all.
The nostalgia is ther but the funds well thats something else.

[GeeRam]

There is apparently a Mossi somewhere in deepest darkest Suffolk being stored......love to see it.

Almost certainley the 'sawn-off wing' ex-IWM Lambeth and then Duxford based Fighter Collection Mosquito T.3 that was reported sold to Paul Allen's Seattle based Flying Heritage Collection, some time ago, but may or may not have actually departed for the USA as yet.

[XL319]

Victor, Lightning and Concorde :ok:

[Focks 2]

Forgive me for going American, but I'd love to see an SR-71 back in the air, or even just taxiing. I know there's a handful that haven't had their wings cut. I'm sure the Yanks could do it! :ok: A crowd puller for sure.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Sea Harrier FA2 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98152)?
Jaguar?
Canberra PR9?

Capability gap? What capability gap? :ugh:

[ACW599]

1. Mosquito
2. Tempest or Typhoon
3. F-4J
4. Concorde

. . . and then if money really is no object and enough original drawings can be found, the Martin-Baker MB-5.

[XV277]

MB-5 Sir?

http://www.aircraftone.com/aircraft/models/marlin_john_l_mb_5_0561544.asp

http://www.thehomepylon.net/Marlins_MB5/index.html

For me, Supermarine Swift!

[fergineer]

The wind tunnel model for the Swift used to live in the HQ 1244 Air Cadets in Swindon......well its a start for you XV277

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

I was going to say a Mosquito, but that was taken

So I thought I'd say a Sunderland, but that was taken as well

So I'll say an airship, any airship, the R100, the R101, even dare I say it a German one. I'd like to climb all over it and go on the top like Nevill Shute talked about in Slide Rule.

[Alber Ratman]

Basic engineering on a SR71

Leaks fuel like a colendar while on the ground as the tanks need airframe kinetic expansion of mach 2 to seal.The type of Avtur used was unique to the aircraft as well. :\

Hydraulic and engine oil has to be replenished just before start up and removed after shut down because it reverts to a waxy / solid state at room temperature.

A No Brainer....:ooh:

:D"Or how about a Valiant - the only V bomber that ever actually dropped a nuke?":D

Cos the only one in existance is the one that dropped the first British Nuke.

A Building has been build around it (Cosfords Cold War Museum). If there were any other airframes , they will not have been maintained for 40 years and the rear spars would have to be redesigned and rebuilt due to their tendancy to unzip...:(

[ArthurR]

For me, it has to be the Defiant, the Beverly, or the Shack. :ok:

[stiknruda]

Hawker Hart


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Camm_hart_500.jpg

[Gainesy]

Either a Mossie or a Bristol Belvedere.

Stacker, that is just so pervy.:) (Is this the only aircraft named after an architectural feature BTW?)

For me, a Shack, a proper one with a mid-upper turret.
Valiant and Victor, (well, they said 558 was impossible too).
Oh, and a Westland Wyvern for the Fisheads.
And Hunters to replace the Reds' Hawks.

[philrigger]

;)
How about a Bloodhound ? Not too many flights though !!!!!!!

The cost of AFs would be kept to a minimum.







'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

[The Helpful Stacker]

Stacker, that is just so pervy.

The RAFs first twin rotor helicopter, nowt pervy about that.

Its a shame none of the squadrons that now operate the mighty wokka previous operated the Belvedere.

[Kitbag]

The Belvedere (Is this the only aircraft named after an architectural feature BTW?)


Well Bristols also had the Blenheim, but it was mainly because of alliteration, with the exception I think of the Type 170 Freighter every Bristol aircraft seems to have had a name beginning with 'B'. I seem to recall this was an Air Ministry policy dating from the early twenties for some manufacturers, Hawkers being a prime example- biplane Hart through VTOL Harrier

[Gainesy]

I thought 18Sqn did? Anyway,it's still pervy 'cos its a helo.:)

(Though I'd like to see a Wessex again).

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Kitbag. As the Bristol Wayfarer?

http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/aimages/G1506.jpg

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Just quietly I hope some one can keep the requisite paperwork and parts on one side to go with a Jaguar and perhaps a Tornado.
I understand MOD rules state that 10 years must elapse from withdrawal to flight ?
That which I fear most is the dreaded bean counters "Format C:" in these days of using confusors and keyboards to keep records.
I know they are not very popular with some at the moment, but lets plan ahead.
Be lucky
David

[The Helpful Stacker]

I thought 18Sqn did? Anyway,it's still pervy 'cos its a helo.

No it was only operated by 26, 66 and 72 sqns.

(Though I'd like to see a Wessex again).

HC2 variety with a Nitesun hanging off the side?

[Kitbag]

GBZ, absolutely, the Type number (170) was the same, the difference between the Freighter and the Wayfarer as I'm sure you know is the lack of nose doors on the latter.

[Gainesy]

HC2 variety with a Nitesun hanging off the side?

Nah, yellow one, dope-on-a-rope style.:)

[Airborne Aircrew]

People keep saying Mossie...

In 1983(?, It may have been '84), when I was at Shawbury there was, most definitely, a flying Mossie. I know because 3 or 4 U/T Loadies were stopped from crossing the runway on the way over to the squadron one morning by the lights only to watch, with chins on the ground, a beautiful Mossie land right in front of us.

Did something happen to that one?

[Tim Inder]

Unfortunately it crashed a few years ago. :(
I remember when I was at Hertfordshire Uni (Hatfield Poly for BEagle :)) in about 1994. I was living in the student accommodation at Shenley Hospital, just down the road from Salisbury Hall. There must have been an airshow on there as all of a sudden there was the spine tingling sound of two Merlins at VERY low altitude echoing around the buildings and the sight of the Mossie pulling up into a very steep wingover and swooping back in the opposite direction. (I think the 500' rule was well and truly busted!) I imagine the water tower in the hospital block made an excellent landmark for a turning point. Another aviation minded stude appeared as the last echoes were dissipating and asked "What the heck was that? Did you see anything?" I explained what I had just seen and his reply was something along the lines of "Yer, bo**ocks, sounded more like a Cessna to me" when said Mossie appeared again, if anything even LOWER and faster and did the same punchy wingover before zooming off again. We were both :eek: and :D although my mate was also :ouch: and I was :E!

[TEEEJ]

I believe you would have seen Mosquito G-ASKH, RR299

Sadly the Mosquito crashed in 1996

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_501355.pdf

http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/top/o/M59.jpg

[airborne_artist]

Tim Inder - I believe I know of that display. A friend of mine had/has it on a video that he took. The sound track is littered with the squeals of brakes from cars on the M25 as drivers thought "what the :mad: was that?"

I'll see if I can persuade him to digitise it an upload it to YouTube.

[TheStrawMan]

Submarine Scout Class


With the outbreak of the war the threat to British shipping became apparent to the Admiralty. It was realised that with airships, they had an instrument which could protect the shipping by spotting the submarine threats.
http://www.aht.ndirect.co.uk/airships/ss/images/subscout.jpg

They can keep an eye on Ivan while our ac are out in the sand.

[GeeRam]

People keep saying Mossie...
In 1983(?, It may have been '84), when I was at Shawbury there was, most definitely, a flying Mossie. I know because 3 or 4 U/T Loadies were stopped from crossing the runway on the way over to the squadron one morning by the lights only to watch, with chins on the ground, a beautiful Mossie land right in front of us.
Did something happen to that one?
Actually, in 1983/84 there were THREE flying Mosquitos in the UK - just, but definately 2, so whilst most likely it was BAe's RR299 as mentioned previously, it may have been either RS712 (1984 was when it was flown down to PPS from the Strathallan Collection) or less likely RS709.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Unfortunately it crashed a few years ago.Saddened... Utterly saddened...

Actually, in 1983/84 there were THREE flying Mosquitos in the UK

So.. that means there are two remaining? .... Don't tell me...

[Razor61]

Got to be a Buccaneer and a Hunter

Aren't there enough Hunters flying already then? Must be atleast 10-15 flying in the UK, including a few with the MoD based at Hurn. Go to Exeter or Kemble and you will see the rest flying.

Being realistic,
Victor next...

[muppetofthenorth]

What about the Halifax and Mosquito at Elvington?

The Mossie's always in some state of repair/rebuild - could that be flyable one day in the future?

As for the Halifax, having that alongside the BBMF's Lanc would be a sight.

[NST]

I would have liked to have seen a Shorts Stirling, Handley Page Halifax or a Vickers Wellington. All three seem to be forgotten in the shadow of the Lancaster. A relative flew for a while on the Beaufighter during the war and it looks like one while be airworthy again thanks to the Fighter Collection .. http://www.fighter-collection.com/pages/aircraft/beaufighter/index.php .. cant wait to see it get airborne.

[GeeRam]

What about the Halifax and Mosquito at Elvington?

The Mossie's always in some state of repair/rebuild - could that be flyable one day in the future?

Absolutely no chance of the Elvington Mossie ever flying.

Nor for that matter the Halifax.

Both are essentially composite partially complete static rebuilds, not that should be critical of what were two very dedicated long term restorations with very little available funding.

[airborne_artist]

So.. that means there are two remaining? .... Don't tell me...

One Mosquito was bought by Kermit Weeks:

From here (http://www.mossie.org/RS712.htm) "With its filming career over, RS712 was bought for the Strathallan Museum in September 1972, and flown there on 8th November 1975. The closure of the collection forced the sale of RS712, which was acquired by Kermit Weeks of Florida in June 1981 for the sum of £100,000. Harry Robins took over the task of returning RS712 to airworthiness in 1984, and he and George Aird flew the Mosquito to Booker airfield on 21st December and into the care of Personal Plane Services. Following further work by Harry, in 1986 RS712 was camouflaged and given the code EG-F to represent the 487 Squadron Mosquito flown by Group Captain P.C.Pickard during the attack on Amiens prison in 1944. On 29th September George Aird with George Stewart as co-pilot took off from RAF Benson for the first leg of the trip to Prestwick. Initially joined by RR299 near its Hawarden base for a formation photo session, twenty five and a half hours flying time saw RS712 delivered to Kermit's museum in Florida."

[GeeRam]

Which was the 2nd east-west trans atlantic crossing of a Mossie in a matter of a few years, as B.35 RS709 had been bought by the USAFM from Doug Arnold and flown over to Dayton, by IIRC, again George Aird a few years before.

And now we have none........

[airborne_artist]

GR - with my lottery win I'm buying/restoring a Mossie and a Sea Fury. So it'll be sorted :ok:

[GeeRam]

GR - with my lottery win I'm buying/restoring a Mossie and a Sea Fury. So it'll be sorted

If I ever got a HUGE win, I would buy a Mossie as well.

However, to fly it here, you would be restricted to having to waving shed loads of cash infront of either Bob Jens (Can) or Kermit Weeks (USA), as it's likely that these are the only two in private hands that could be operated in the UK under CAA as BAe have withdrawn DA on the type, so that means any of the 'new build' Mosquito restoration being undertaken in NZ would not meet CAA/BAe requirements.

[Shackman]

I had the pleasure(!) of flying the last Halifax (now at YAM Elvington). Actually, I should say part of the last Halifax, as a Chinook usl from a crofters' back garden near Stornoway. It flew like a pig and probably did the journey the other way on a horse drawn cart quicker.

But it would be nice to see another 4-piston in the UK again. Come on WL790 where are you?

[PeterWBodle]

There is a Mossie (or most of it) in good, dry, safe storage in Norfolk...in bits. Could this be the Suffolk one moved slightly North/North East?
.
Although I'm not associated with it, I don't think it is very high up the list of restoration projects for the folks concerned. There are too many 'interesting' projects ahead of it, to put it on the active list...just yet.

[Focks 2]

Leaks fuel like a colendar while on the ground as the tanks need airframe kinetic expansion of mach 2 to seal.The type of Avtur used was unique to the aircraft as well. :\
Hydraulic and engine oil has to be replenished just before start up and removed after shut down because it reverts to a waxy / solid state at room temperature.
Oh, I'm not talking about restoring one to operational condition. The problems you mention were only due to the neccessity to withstand extreme heat. Airshow passes wouldn't involve M3+ flight. Tank sealants, oil etc, would not need to withstand high temps, therefore alternatives could be used (and have been in the past). A restored SR-71 wouldn't even need to use JP-7, as J-58's could happily drink JP-4 or 5 (limiting the aircraft to M1.5).
A No Brainer....:ooh:
Thats what some folk said about the Vulcan. The only limit is the mind... well, and dosh, and US gov. :ok:

[Tim McLelland]

Realistically, I think we've all accepted that the CAA isn't going to permit a Lightning to fly again in the UK. As I've said many times before, I think the CAA's attitude stinks, and I wish an MP would make an effort to ask some serious questions about the CAA and how they are able to create their own rules and regulations, without any honest attempt to base their views on practical experience and technical expertise that would clearly indicate to anyone with less cynicism that a suitably-capable team would be perfectly able to safely operate an aircraft like the Lightning.

Having said this, I think from a financial viewpoint a Lightning would be a very difficult aircraft to support even if the CAA's rules were different. For example, a Canberra and Meteor F8 went overseas largely because of insufficient interest in the UK, and the Sea Vixen is still struggling to find a future down at Bournemouth. Practically-speaking, I think the best we could hope for is that sponsorship for the Vixen will be found and that Coventry's two Canberras will enjoy a more secure future.

My real gripe though, is that the CAA seem to have a problem with the Shackleton which could have been back in the skies over here by now. It's hard to know what ludicrous excuses even the CAA can find to prohibit a relatively simple four-engined piston from operating here, especially when aircraft like the Connie and DC6 seem to be regarded as acceptable. Surely, a contra-prop doesn't suddenly render a piston type as being complex, otherwise even the poor Gannet (okay it's not a piston) would remain grounded (which it seems to be managing to do even without the CAA's help).

My vote would be for supporting Avro's second-greatest aircraft, and persuading the miserable, blinkered CAA mandarins to get real, and respect Air Atlantique's abilities, and let the Shack come home.

Then again, there's all that Vulcan expertise at Bruntingthorpe now and another airframe sitting down at Southend...:)

[BossEyed]

I wish an MP would make an effort to ask some serious questions about the CAA

Well, there's this:

Government Strategic Review of the CAA 2007 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/aviation/domestic/caareview2007)

[Alber Ratman]

Oh, I'm not talking about restoring one to operational condition. The problems you mention were only due to the neccessity to withstand extreme heat. Airshow passes wouldn't involve M3+ flight. Tank sealants, oil etc, would not need to withstand high temps, therefore alternatives could be used (and have been in the past). A restored SR-71 wouldn't even need to use JP-7, as J-58's could happily drink JP-4 or 5 (limiting the aircraft to M1.5).L:

Major non conforming re-engineering to the design (thus astronomical cost)




Thats what some folk said about the Vulcan. The only limit is the mind... well, and dosh, and US gov. :ok:

And the FAA and Lockhead Martin as DA.

The Vulcan will hopefully be blessed with corporate sponsorship now. However they have struggled, even with lottery money and rich benifactors.

[GPMG]

Handley Page V/1500

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Handley_Page_V-1500.jpg


Handley Page Heyford

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/images/h197.jpg

[brain fade]

If I win the lottery, which is unlikely..........................as I don't buy the tickets.

I'll put an F-105 up.

Now there's a thankless task.;)

[Mark Nine]

Surely with more carpenters in this country than sheet-metal workers, a mossie wouldn't be that expensive to put back in the air when compared to a metal airframe.
In fact-if anybody has any plans for a mossie, I might just put a team of Polish chippy's together myself. :ok:

[wokkameister]

How about a Mk3 Chinook?

WM

:ugh:

[The Helpful Stacker]

Now thats just absurd WM, you've more chance of seeing the Spruce Goose flying.

[Mike7777777]

Wish list:

Lightning
TSR2
Concorde
Mosquito

Reality:

Scampton Bucc
Just Jane
Re-engineered Mosquito

I can't see the CAA permitting a Lighting to fly in the UK under anything other than RAF or BAe control.

[GeeRam]

My real gripe though, is that the CAA seem to have a problem with the Shackleton which could have been back in the skies over here by now. It's hard to know what ludicrous excuses even the CAA can find to prohibit a relatively simple four-engined piston from operating here, especially when aircraft like the Connie and DC6 seem to be regarded as acceptable. Surely, a contra-prop doesn't suddenly render a piston type as being complex, otherwise even the poor Gannet (okay it's not a piston) would remain grounded (which it seems to be managing to do even without the CAA's help).
My vote would be for supporting Avro's second-greatest aircraft, and persuading the miserable, blinkered CAA mandarins to get real, and respect Air Atlantique's abilities, and let the Shack come home.
I as understand it, the reason the CAA are saying no to the Shack is purely because BAe have said the spar's are time ex'd, and if it's resparred then it would likely get a permit:confused:
I believe since AA have done the work on the BBMF Lanc they have would have BAe approval to do the work (if there's enough material left over after PA474's respar a few years back). It's been reported that the CAA have agreed to a one flight only ferry of the Shack back into the UK from the USA, and it's just a matter of logistics vs. cost and all that other financial stuff as to whether it happens or not.......:confused:
If I win the lottery, which is unlikely..........................as I don't buy the tickets.
I'll put an F-105 up.
Now there's a thankless task.
Thankless because the US Govt/DoD won't let it happen regardless how much you may win......
The Collings Foundation have recently tried to do exactly this and instantly an order went out to butcher the likely restorable F-105's so they would never fly again.....:ugh:
Surely with more carpenters in this country than sheet-metal workers, a mossie wouldn't be that expensive to put back in the air when compared to a metal airframe.
Sadly that's not the case. And in terms of the UK CAA and BAe DA consent, a new build isn't the same as the glue laminates etc are different today.
Glyn Powell in NZ has spent several decades:eek: building the moulds and now is building new build Mossie fuselages for several restoration projects.
For an indication of what involved in a Mossie rebuild, see here for the rebuild of Jerry Yegans FB.26 using Glyn Powell's new builds.
http://www.warbirdrestoration.co.nz/current.html#ka114
But you would have a real problem getting one of these past the CAA/BAe.

[splitbrain]

As I've said many times before, I think the CAA's attitude stinks, and I wish an MP would make an effort to ask some serious questions about the CAA and how they are able to create their own rules and regulations,

The Campaign Against Avaition is a powerful and belligerent body indeed.

[haltonapp]

How about the VC10, with an accident safety record in service second to none, soon to be replaced by the FSTA!!

[BEagle]

Define 'soon', haltonapprentoid - it still hasn't been decided...:hmm:

Now 13 years since I first worked with MoD DFS civil serpents looking at 'Future Tanker Aircraft' - whilst enjoying teaching people about the mighty Vickers FunBus with you, mon brave!

[John Botwood]

The Mossie has a special place in the RAF's history

The Light Night Striking Force of Mosquitos during one phase of the war made bombing raids to Berlin on 43 consecutive occasions without a break. Sometimes the same aircraft would make a second raid on the same night. The Light Night Striking Force flew 553 sorties during April 1943 for the loss of only one aircraft.

The LNSF used to operate in the most appalling weather and one night Air Vice Marshal Donald Bennett was visited by Mrs. Ogden Reid of the New York Herald Tribune. She had asked to witness the start of a raid. This distinguished lady of the American press arrived with a member of the British Government and was immediately driven to the end of the runway by Bennett. Fog caused heavy bomber raids to be cancelled but as the mist swirled around the signal caravan at the end of the runway Mosquitos could be seen taxying on from both directions to save time, lining up and taking off for Berlin in quick succession. She turned to Bennett and said, "I see they have got a bulge - they’re carrying a “Blockbuster” aren’t they?" She asked what it weighed and Bennett told her 4000 lbs which was 500 lbs more than a B-17 Flying Fortress could carry to Berlin. In any case, he pointed out, a Fortress would not accommodate a 4000 lb “cookie” because it was too large for its bomb bay. The famous Press lady pondered for a few moments before replying "I only hope the American public never realises these facts."

One young Mosquito pilot of those days was Wing Commander 1. G. Broom (later Air Marshal Sir Ivor Broom DSO, DFC and two bars, AFC). “We did 25 nights to Berlin. You could fly there and be back in the mess before the bar closed. We could carry more to Berlin with a crew of two in a Mosquito than could a Flying Fortress with a crew of ten. They had to fight their way there and back in daylight. We went fast at night, at 28,000 ft.”

[EyesFront]

As an ancestor of the Mozzie, it would be good to see the DH88 Comet fly again. I always admire the old girl when I visit Old Warden, and I enjoyed seeing her fly during her last spell of airworthiness.

Speaking of De Havillands, I've always had a soft spot for the DH2, but a replica is the best we can hope for there.

[Mark Nine]

With over 100 posts on this topic, it's time for the scores on the doors.
In no particular order, and including the comedy entries and types still flying we have,

TSR2 4 votes
Mosquito 14
B36 1
Hornet 1
Concorde 10
SR53 1
Mk 3 Chinook 2
Lightning 12
F-4 3
Jaguar 2
Bucc 3
Shackleton 3
Argosy 1
Hunter 2
Hornet 1
Hastings 1
Victor 8
Halifax 4
Beverley 2
York 1
Wellington 4
SR-71 1
Valiant 5
HP42 1
Canberra 1
MR4A 1
Whirlwind 3
MB-5 1
Typhoon/Tempest 5
Meteor 1
Swift 1
Sea Harrier 2
Stirling 2
An Airship 2
Javelin 2
Sunderland 2
Hart 1
Beaufighter 2
Belvedere 1
Wyvern 1
Walrus 1
Defient 2
Wessex 1
Avro Arrow 1
Sea Venom 1
Sea Fury 1
HP V/1500 1
Heyford 1
F-105 1
Lancaster 1
VC-10 1
DH88 1
DH2 1

Looks like its the Mossie by a nose :D
Now........ do we have a volunteer for rose bearer and a lottery grant application form?

[Focks 2]

Now........ do we have a volunteer for rose bearer
Tombstone? :D

[pedroalpha]

I would LOVE to see the Javelin fly again. There's a nice one at Staverton for inspiration. I did hear that it was a bit of a pig to fly though!!!!!!!

[pug]

As a taxpayer i would be happy for money spent on an expanded BoB memorial flight to include some examples of britains aviation heritage. Im sure if the MOD wanted to return a lightning to the sky it could persuade BAe to back it... If not only as a lasting memorial to the service men and women then to the british engineering heritage?

Imagine seeing a pair of lightnings in formation with XH558, or performing their stupidly overpowered take offs....

How i wish i could have visited Binbrook in the mid 80's ;)

[gareth herts]

I was lucky enough to get one visit to Binbrook's crash gate in about 1986 I think. I've never seen so many spotters and photographers in my life!

[pug]

Living fairly localy i have passed the place a few times recently, cant imagine it being a major front line station now, even the runway has gone. Must have been a great 'spotter' location, as i hear my local base Leconfield was.

All gone now though:{

Anyway, a Victor would be good to see also, though the Vulcan took so much effort and hard work to get back into the air i cant see its slightly lesser known cousin doing the same.

[Basil]

Got to be TSR2 - The BASTARDS!!


Oh that made me feel better . . .

. . or the Argosy :)

including the comedy entries I trust one is not, perchance, mocking my operational type :*

[Roland Pulfrew]

Well I have to admit to buying a Euromillions ticket the other day, you know when the jackpot might have been £88M. Why did I buy it? Well my thinking was that with £88M I might stand a chance of getting de Havilland and Rolls-Royce to join me in building a new Mosquito.

And after that? A Beaufighter and a Typhoon/Tempest, and perhaps getting Just Jane a full major and get her back in the air. But for now my vote goes to the Mosquito.

[GPMG]

Avro Arrow

[ZH875]

Another Vulcan. :)

&

Avro 707A
Avro 707C

[poor southerner]

i seem to remember a mossie for sale in canade 2 or 3 years ago, under restoration. looked fairly advanced . dont know what mk it was. any further info ??

[GeeRam]

i seem to remember a mossie for sale in canade 2 or 3 years ago, under restoration. looked fairly advanced . dont know what mk it was. any further info ??
More like 10 years ago.......:)
This was an ex-Spartan Air Services B.35 VR796 which was part restored and was put up for sale by owner Ed Zalesky, for about a million plus IIRC. It was eventually bought by Bob Jens and has since been gradually worked on at Vancouver International. I think it's probably still a couple of years away from taking to the air again. The structure is complete, and it's a case of systems fit, plumbing, engine overhaul and fit etc remaining to be done.
Unless you are thinking of the false rumour of another Canadian Mossie (IIRC B.35 RS700 belonging to Calgary Aerospace Museum) that was falsely reported as being up for sale a year or two back on various net forums.

[Occasional Aviator]

When the BBMF gets to be unsupportable, wouldn't it be great to have a CWMF? A couple of F-4s in AD/FGA colours respectively, a Frightening, Bucc, and perhaps a Jag to fly in formation with the Vulcan, perhaps getting a refuel from a Victor!

Only a dream...

[Roland Pulfrew]

When the BBMF gets to be unsupportable

That would be when the devil calls in a heating engineer because it's getting a bit chilly. Aren't the BBMF kites the only ones with no planned OSD in the RAF Management Plan? The way we are going as a country and an air force, BBMF will be all we have left!!

Then again a Lanc fitted out with LGB or small diameter bomb might be quite useful in Afghanistan. Long endurance and large payload!!!

[dave_perry]

The Lightning :)

[Squat-thrust]

My choice would be the Defiant

As a matter of interest how much work would be required to get Hendons Defiant out and airworthy?

[Rakshasa]

IIRC, there's three Mossie airframes at Salisbury Hall, including the Prototype. One is static, the rest are in various bits and states of completion but there's a small stockpile of parts and frames too. Absolutely no idea what state any of it is in though.


Edit:

Actually, scratch my last there's four at SH. Bit of googling also turned up this useful site. Survivor list (http://www.mossie.org/Mosquito_loc.htm)

[Mark Nine]

Nice link :ok: Pleased to see that there are at least 2 being restored to flight status around the world. Just a shame none of the U.K. airframes are getting the treatment.

[Beeayeate]

Back in post #51 WEBF mentioned a Canberra. This is good. :cool:

It's easy to forget that it wasn't only the V's that were nuke bombers, the ubiquitous Canberra also stood that role - in Germany. The B(I)8s of the RAFG Strike Sqns stood QRA loaded with a tac nuke each. And all this while the V Force was "working up".

Is there an example of Britain's least known nuclear bomber in the UK? Well, no. Except for the cockpit of XM279 and the burnt out wreck of WT339 (Barkstone Heath).

There was one though, at Cosford, WT346.

But then someone (at Cosford) decided it wasn't a fit exhibit for some lame reason and sold it on the New Zealand, the RNZAF Museum at Christchurch in fact. It was dismantled and moved out there in 1993 - and there it still is!

Fourteen years later it is still in a dismantled state, unregarded and covered in the rubberised goo of transport protective coating. (NZ did have B(I)8s but sold them all on to the Indian Air Force.)

Isn't it about time someone considered bringing this venerable airframe back to the UK to take it's rightful place amongst the few examples we have of the Cold War era?

Brief history here. (http://www.bywat.co.uk/wt346.html)



:(

[Mark Nine]

The Air Atlantique Classic Flight have an airworthy example. :ok:
www.classicflight.com (http://www.classicflight.com)

[Big Sand]

Hi Mark9,
I can vouch for the Air Atlantique Canberra being in operation. It almost took half the guys in the EGSF circuit out when it did an impromtu wazz around the airfield prior to the summer airshow season.

Hearing him calling inbound I nobely decided to do an 'extra thorough' set of power checks in the Bulldog and watched the insuing 'circuit flush' from the touchlines prior to take off.:ok:

I have to say it looked fantastic from the hold point but slightly more interesting from the guy on first solo turning downwind.:eek:

No damage done and nice of the chap from Air Atlantique to drop by.:D

Yip the Canberra is alive and well!

Big Sand

[Beeayeate]

Yip the Canberra is alive and well!

Well, not really. Classic Flight's WK163 threw a turbine blade or two a few weeks back. Now sits at Baggington awaiting a Avon (from somewhere :confused: ).

Their other Canberra (the "Blue One" ) is still undergoing sparodic work to make it fit to fly again.

.

[OCCWMF]

When the BBMF gets to be unsupportable, wouldn't it be great to have a CWMF?

Finally the name plan starts to pay off........:E