Cityjet

[newbie008]

anyone know the starting salary for a cadet with Cityjet?

[modern monkey]

At my recent interview they told me that you get €23650 euros basic per annum, plus about 2000 euros flight pay per month, based on about 650 hrs a year. Sector pay is €30 per sector, and you get 75€ for every night away from home, about 6 per month I hear. They pay your hotels when you have to stay away.
Be careful though, they pay you a much reduced sallary when you are doing the tr, and I think they take about 25% of your 1st year wages to pay for the costs of hotels, etc when you are training.

[newbie008]

thanks for that - Looking at the FTE tagged scheme but how are you meant to survive on those wages and pay back a massive loan?!

[modern monkey]

Thats aviation for you. Do you have to pay the full 60k for the FTE integrated course? Loan repayments on that must be in the region of 400 pounds per month.

Plus you'd be living in London (well thats where they're recruiting for at the mo anyway)..... hardly the cheapest place in the world to live.

[newbie008]

yes full price - I thought youd be looking at 900ish including the interest..might be worth waiting for flybe again - even they pay £23000 i believe which is still pretty dismal after all the training.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Quick Question,

Those entering as DEC's, during their type rating, will they be on a reduced salary?

Are there any other hidden surprises?

[acebaxter]

You won't be getting the 140,000 euro advertised price. Get the numbers up front whatever you do.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

No, its actually 70,000 Euros basic but does that apply whilst one is going through the type rating?

[charlie copeland]

What do people think of this scheme? Is the bond for type rating 3 years or more? Is the starting salary sufficient to pay back the loan AND afford to live in london? Is the route to the LHS rapid due to high turnover?

For anyone who has been through selection (either cadet or FO) how did you find it? what was the major appeal of cityjet- why did you choose this scheme over other such as flybe? how did you find your experience of dealing with the company?

Charlie
_________________________________
tempus fugit

[oompa loompa]

Cityjet will take you straight out of flying school, as a modular or integrated student, type rate you on an EFIS medium jet, pay you while you do the type, arrange and pay for your hotels, transfers, licence renewals/conversions, medicals, etc etc.

You will be on half pay until line check complete, and 75% until you've been there a year (basic only). Thats perfectly reasonable, considering you have no accomodation costs until you finish line training, so you're only paying for food.

After that your basic will be down 25% for the rest of the year, but in effect it's only 12.5% because your sector pay makes up for the rest. And thats it! no deductions for the TR, though you're still bonded. They pay your loss of licence, loss of income, (most of) your private healthcare, and the (Air France) staff travel is awesome.

If you don't think this is a good, you haven't done your research into the alternatives properly.

[BusinessMan]

Oompa Loompa, thanks for the insights. Can we take it that you are with Cityjet then? I'm trying to work some financials which involve having to pay off debt from the FTE integrated course so if you know the answers to the following and have the time to comment it would be much appreciated

As some have suggested, repayments for the full costs of the FTE course would be in the region of 1000-1500euros/month so I'm trying to build a clear picture of the income to cover that, as well as probably at least 1000 euros/month for London accom & bills. Just stating for the record that my ££ questions are motivated by a wish to plan realistically rather than avarice !

- when you say '...half pay until line check complete.' am I right that this is 50% of the 23k euros? Ie 11.5k euros?

- the bit about '...no accomodation costs...' during line training; do they put you up in a hotel the whole way through line training then? Ie even when on non-working days back in London?

- how quickly does the pay rise after the first year? (I wasn't sure where the 70k & 140k mentioned by others on the thread came from)

- is 2k euros a month a reasonable planning assumption for flight pay?

Excuse my ignorance on these points - I'm trying to put that right by asking :O

Cheers, BM

[supramkiv]

Hi, think I can help here.

Its half of 24k which is the starting salary for a low hour'd cadet until line training completed, (so basically yes, 12k pa Euro)

They put you up in a hotel during the training at their expense, and throw in breakfast too! When you go home/have time off you can just leave all your stuff in the hotel room.

I haven't the pay scales to hand but what I was shown yes the pay does rise fairly quickly especially upon unfreezing of ATPL.

Sector pay is a great feature of the job, tax free and adds between 2-3k Euro on top of salary.

During my training they put me on flights home for the weekend when I asked on their network for free.

Absolutely no complaints, they treat you us very well. Any more Q's feel free to PM me.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

are you trying to say that at the end of each month one can expect about £1300 net on sector pay etc alone? surely that is way above industry standard

[Finals19]

I notice on the Cityjet website that it has a "quick" application form...

Could anyone confirm that the "light twin 12500Ibs" category means "light twins below 12500Ibs"? I've got nearly 850hrs on Chieftains/Navajos but not sure if I can apply under the above?

Thanks...:ok:

[newbie008]

are you trying to say that at the end of each month one can expect about £1300 net on sector pay etc alone? surely that is way above industry standard


Per year i think!

[No_Speed_Restriction]

now thats more realistic.

[XLNL]

You'd think wrong...
The sectorpay is -as supramkiv wrote- around €2000 a month (I don't think you'll get to 3000). Check www.ppjn.com (http://www.ppjn.com) for the details. €30 per sector, €75 per overnight. Also allowance for stby, office days etc.

[XLNL]

---sorry that was twice---

[No_Speed_Restriction]

How can they afford to give this amount every month ontop of the 70k/annum they are offering new DEC's?

[CarbHeatIn]

70k Euros is a low basic wage for a jet airline captain in western Europe and the basic for FOs is laughable.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

So basically the allowances help make up for the low salary thereby trying to bring it to industry average.

[BusinessMan]

Hi Supramkiv, many thanks for the info & offer of PM, much obliged. Will shout if I have any further Qns.

BM

[Beaver diver]

Finals 19,

Good point, but I would say less than 12500 lbs as this would be cca.5700 kgs and the word "Light twin" would be considering the Navajo/Chieftain as a light twin below that limit.

[JaJaBinx]

Hi Supramkiv,
any idea of the pension arrangements with Cityjet, do you know wot
they pay in to any pension you may have?
Thanks
JB

[oompa loompa]

BusinessMan, supramkiv is about right. You will be paid in Euros, so your sterling may vary with the exchange rate. I would suggest that you base any financial calcs on worst case and assume more like E1500 (sector) + E2000 (base) per month.

Pension; the company will match your contribution, into their own fund. This goes up after a while - I can't remember off the top of my head. Standard stuff.

[BusinessMan]

Thanks oompa loompa, appreciate the time you guys take to give us wannabes the picture. I actually didnt apply in the end because I couldn't make the financials balance, hopefully next year after more saving.

Best of luck to all of you who've gone for it :ok:! BM

[modern monkey]

Any body who is thinking about taking a loan to fund the City Jet FTE scheme needs their head read I reckon. City jet take home pay, basic and flight amounts to 4000euro per month. At current exchange rates that is:
£2798, which after tax comes to:
£2040.

Accommodation in london will set you back AT LEAST £550 per month including bills and council tax, so if the loan repayments come to £900 per month, that leaves you with
£590 per month spending money.

You will need to use the DLR to get to City Airport, this will cost at least £60 per month for a travel card, leaving you with the grand total of £530 per month, or £133 per week to spend on food, beer, haircuts, etc in the world's most expensive city, and thats a conservative estimate, based on the cheapest accommodation and travelcard.

In reality you could easily have less than £100 per week, or £14.70 per day spending money.

And this will be 25% less in the first year leaving you with £10.70 per day to spend on food and other essentials.

You'll be barely able to survive on that, take it from me!

[CarbHeatIn]

is the 4k euros not take home, ie after tax

[modern monkey]

no it isnt. Where did u get that idea from?

[CarbHeatIn]

for a start it was outlined in thread 12 that Sector pay is a great feature of the job, tax free and adds between 2-3k Euro on top of salary.

Also, take home pay is what you actually take home. Tax has already been deducted at source.

[modern monkey]

Trust me, it isn't. I should know, it was all outlined in detail to me at interview. you will e getting 4000 euros per month on average before tax.

Plus the fact that a very large part of your sallary consists of flight pay is a very bad thing, as when you go on holiday or are off sick your income will be severely reduced. Also, what are you going to do if they decide one month to give you hardly any hours? Which could quite easily happen.

[CarbHeatIn]

makes no difference to me, just wondering what the competition are offering. Regards:ok:

[newbie008]

I have applied but I must admit the money does worry me. Mind you Flybe dont exactly offer a brilliant package in terms of money, but I guess the salary is good rather than paying per sector like cityjet. Having second thoughts to be honest about whether it is such a good scheme to apply :}

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Anyone know what a typical net monthly income (GBP) for LHS out of LCY is?

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Thanks for that

[Cloud Chaser]

Same info for me please

[newbie008]

has anyone heard anything re FTE/Cityjet?

[JONNY99]

not heard from them yet either, getting late but isn't it?

[sprucegoose49]

Phase 4 coming up soon, anyone made it this far?

[PAPI-74]

This TAX FREE Flight Pay deal......how tax free is it?

I assume they pay it into a bank in Dublin for you to txfr into your bank, or does it go straight into your current account?

This regular payment cannot go unnoticed by the tax man and if asked to full out a self assessment, when declaired, they are surely going to tax you or even fine you for tax evasion. Allowances are one thing....but flight pay is like overtime.

How do you guys make it work?

[billington]

Dear No Speed restriction,

Did u ever find out this? Interested, as \I'm in same situation and looking at them

Brgds

Billington

[PAPI-74]

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/faqs.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/nimmanual/nim27008.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/nimmanual/nim27002.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/nimmanual/nim27005.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM05277.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/senew/SE33033.htm

Very fishy to me. I had a chat with a few Tax specialists and even BALPA put me onto an Accountant (about as good as a choc tea pot) and no one could give a 100% answer.
I think that if the flight goes outside the UK and lands outside the UK, you can have a FDR (not flight pay) to cover expenses. This amount is set by the IR. CityJet have an arrangement with the Bank of Ireland and the Irish IR not to tax you on the flight pay, but you will pay some sort of interest for having it transrered into the account. If you transfer the money into a UK account, you will pay to have it wired and also a rate for conversion. It then becomes earnings from outside the UK and subject to UK tax. If you keep it there, you loose, if you wire it into your normal account, you loose.
In other words, they save on NI contributions and have to pay less pension to you.
Read the attachments really carefully and make up your own mind. If the Euro suffers, so will you.
Good luck.