Modular route into the North Sea

[Iain-M]

Hello everyone, I am currently in the midst of planning how to go about training for my CPL and was hoping some current pilots could give me some advice.

My main question is regarding Aberdeen operator’s views towards someone who has undertaken training through the modular route- is it an instant disadvantage compared to someone who has went integrated?

Currently I work offshore so have a decent disposable income and plenty spare time at home to do the training, two factors which are pushing me to go the modular route. Modular would also give me the opportunity to stay and train in the local area (Aberdeenshire) and hopefully pick up contacts within the industry.

How long should the CPL take to complete part-time? Bearing in mind I have 6 months a year at home and plenty spare time offshore to do the studying.

Finally, if anyone could advise on the current requirements for a co-pilots position in the North Sea it would be much appreciated. Is there any possibility of being sponsored for an IR? Being a local the length of the bonded period would be of no concern to me. If a self-sponsored IR is necessary, does this give me a good chance of employment or is competition still fierce?

Many thanks for any advice/comments/help.

Offshore worked bored with the view in the back!

[Bravo73]

Welcome to Rotorheads, Iain.

If you are so near to Aberdeen airport, why not just knock on the 3 operators' doors and get the answer from the 'horse's mouth'? (I'm sure that someone on here can provide you with some contact names, if required.)

But in short, no you shouldn't be discriminated against if you went modular. There aren't enough UK trained integrated students to make an impact.

A modular CPL should take you somewhere in the region of 12-18 months to complete, full time. The majority of this time (9-12 months) is for the ground exams.


HTH

[Brilliant Stuff]

Ian-M

Welcome to the forum.

You appear to be in a dream situation with working offshore which means earning the dosh to follow your dream whilst not having to skimp.

As for modular it should make not one jot of difference. They want you to have a licence and some experience and if you can stretch to an IR the better the chances for you because if you are waiting for Bristows,CHC, or Bond to sponsor you then that might be a long wait.

But there is also some luck involved without which are not going to get far.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you.:ok:

You are not working out of the forties?

[TiPwEiGhT]

The modular route is very much dependent on the time you have to put towards your training, working offshore will provide you with good opportunities to do the self-study for the theory exams and then sit them when you are onshore, also you're earning money whilst studying!

After your PPL(H), hours build and CPL exams, the CPL(H) flying course will take approximately 3-4 weeks, depends on weather and also how many other students are on the course at the time, but your school will tell you numbers of students and instructors on the course, and also the max they will book.

With regards to the IR, it really depends what the demand for pilots in the North Sea is at the time. At the moment CHC is taking on a few pilots and then sponsering them through the IR. Bond and Bristows ain't really doing much as far as I know. In a year or so, when you could have your CPL, things may be different.

Get in touch with your local training school, ask to organise a chat with one of the instructors, if you're training in the Aberdeen area, no doubt your school with know alot about the current status of the 3 North Sea operators.

Just a thought. TiP:ok:

[Iain-M]

First of all, thanks to all of you for taking the time to offer such great advice. Many things to look into and fortunately everything seems to be positive at the moment.

Bravo- would they be willing to speak/give a tour to someone with such little experience? I thought they would be too busy with day to day operations to take the time to answer my questions.

Brilliant stuff- no, on a stinking semi unfortunately!

Thanks again everyone.

[Bravo73]

Bravo- would they be willing to speak/give a tour to someone with such little experience? I thought they would be too busy with day to day operations to take the time to answer my questions.

I don't see why not. One of the companies was certainly happy to show me around for half a day a few years ago when I was considering my training options. The other company was happy to give me an hour's meeting with their Training and Recruitment manager to answer my questions.

I would guess that the fact that you're a local will only improve your chances.

There's even a chance that one of the Aberdeen based pilots might read this thread and be able to help you to arrange the visit.


Best of luck. :ok:

[paco]

Bristol don't do an ATPL(H) course. They do a fixed wing course that is transferable against helicopter exams under the interim system. However, there is a school recently approved for the modular distance learning ATPL(H) course, with CPL(H) to follow in a week or so. The ATPL(H) will take 11 months at 15 hours of study per week, and the CPL(H) about 6 or 7. Of course, this could be longer or shorter depending on time available, etc. You will require a PPL(H), however, to start.

The only other school to do ATPL(H) is Bristow Academy in the US, but that is residential.

Bear in mind that the academic standard of both is the same, but the CPL(H) has only a few subjects missing, namely IR stuff, jetstreams, and a few other bits. If you are eventually going to do your IR, and you will have to if you want to work the North Sea, it would make sense to do the ATP first off. There is then a time limit to do your IR, but it sounds as if you are going to charge right on ahead!

Don't worry about the modular route while people are requiring bums on seats! The discrimination in the fixed wing world is to provide yet another excuse for screening people out, as is requiring 85% pass marks.

There's no substitute for banging on doors. If they don't want to see you, well, you have to consider whether you want to work for them anyway.

Good luck!

phil

[SFHawk]

Hi Iain-M,

I have just finished the modular route and am now flying offshore from Aberdeen. I had a decent job and managed to fit flight training around it up to the CPL module and IR.

It took me around 4 years from "zero to hero" and around £70,000 (not including travel, accomodation, living expenses). However it could have been done in 3 if I didn't drag my feet in year two! Being on a salary certainly helped keep a semi normal lifestyle but at no time made a dent in the debt I was building!

The PPL I managed in just under 4 weeks (of holiday) in the USA then continued the hour building in the UK on days off. The ATPL ground school was done with Oxford distance learning on evenings and weekends over 9 months with 2 x 3 week "holidays" to attend brush up courses and sit exams. I then quit my job in order to go back to the States to do the CPL module (5 weeks) and then straight into the IR course back in the UK (8 weeks). I was then whipped up within weeks after my IR to interviews and a job in Aberdeen.

With a CPL IR you will get noticed by the companies in Aberdeen, but may have to wait for a round of interviews/training. The need for pilots with CPL IR will not dry up in the next 3-4 years. North Sea IR sponsorships "seem to be" offered to CPL holders with a bit more time than the minimum 200 hours, ie pilots with a bit of instructor time but are very rare and not to be relied on.

If you have the choice, go intergrated and do the full time course at Bristow Academy (cheaper and quicker), but if like me, the funds are not all available at the start, then I am proof that it can be done around a full time job. Before you start, be aware of waiting lists for IR courses you may need to book this at least 18 months in advance. If you want any more info pleae do not hesitate to send us a PM.

It is well worth it, the experience is hard and expensive but with the right attitude and commitment, I had nothing but positive support from all the people I met during my flight training.

Go for it and good luck!! SFHawk.

[ScrumpyLuvver]

Iain-M also be aware that Bristows Academy also has an 18 month+ waiting list for the combined FAA/JAA.

SFHawk, how was the IR stuff? I was advised not to try the IR training until I had 300-500hrs under my belt because at 200, it is still not quite second nature to fly straight and true?

How did you find it? Did you manage in minimum hours? Based on your experience, would have benefitted from a few more hours under your belt?

SL

[SFHawk]

The IR stuff was extremely hard and yes, more experience would definitely help because with low hours a lot of my mental capacity was still being taken up just flying straight and level, so I had a limited amount left to negotiate procedures, deal with ATC changes and RT!

However I did find it completely different from any other flying I had done before so it is difficult to gauge who will pick it up quickly or not. My personal opinion and observation is that pilots who have quickly picked things up en route to the IR stage (ie not been told or required to take any more training than the CAA requires at each stage) tend to "manage" the IR.

I only managed a "partial pass" in the min hours but only had enough cash for one hour of further training before the retest and thankfully got through! 10 more hours on type under IFR plus 10 more ILS/NDB's would have made the IR test more comfortable but at £1000 per hour + instruction rates that simply wasn't an option!

( :eek: - my face during the IR test!)

[ScrumpyLuvver]

Thanks SFH and congrats on getting into offshore, I hope to be able to follow you 2yrs from now...

:* :{ My face at the thought of £1000+ per hour!!!

SL

[NYhelipilot]

Iain-M,

As a previous poster mentioned, don't forget to knock on the doors in Aberdeen. I did exactly that in 1994, and managed to visit Bristow and Bond. I initially wrote to them and followed up with phone calls.

They showed me around Ops, went over daily duties and then took me out to the hangar to sit in one of their helicopters (although I think Bristow didn't have one available in the hangar at the time, so it was only a Bond one I sat in).

Talk to the pilots, ask questions but take with a grain of salt any mention of any kind of sponsorship (I visited a few years after the Bristow scheme closed down, and they said it would start up again in a few years - ha!).

Good luck, and have fun at Dyce.

-NYHeli

[T4 Risen]

Iain ,
Pm me if you want a bit more info about north sea flying. Might be able to help you out a bit.

T4

[evert79]

Can only agree totally with SFH, the IR is tough, but with the right commitment and attitude, low hours are not a problem.
I took mine with minimum flying time after the CPL and found that it is very much a 'building up' process, which with less hours can be a slight advantage. However, i'm not entirely sure if every course on offer works that way.
But like SFH i was 'snapped' up very quickly by an operator once i had my little bit of paper saying IR.

[S76driver]

I also managed the IR on mimimum hours and agree with evert 79 and SFH. I was lucky enough to be sponsored on it though by one of the offshore companies. I know at least one of the three are still wanting co-jo's and are likely to still be requiring them in the years to come. :D:D

[kpd]

SF Hawk-can you say where you did your PPL and Commercial pilot course in USA?? Clearly you did well- would you recommend any particular school?? Where was IR done here also? Thanks

[K48]

Hi Iain
You HAVE to do the ATPL(H) if you are planning on North Sea. There is no point in doing CPL(H) theory.... I just came out of the Bristol ATPL(H) and they are top class. You drop two subjects of the 'instrument monitors' (airline pilots) course and take on Principle of Flight (H) instead of (A). I sat in on the PofF(A) as well as all info is helpful... The ATPL(H) is heavily airline based necessarily but the instrument stuff is all relevant - e.g Airbus displays are virtually identical to a Eurocopter xxx... and will stand you in good stead. Even the transatlantic navigation may be relevant if you are flying a helo in northern lats and come across grid north and your compass pointing at the ground... anyone agree?
People say it is too airline orientated but that's the CAA not Bristol... and Bristol will get you through. I got 98% on their POF(H) course (me:8:uhoh::confused:)so their instruction couldn't be bad... They have the best score averages in the country too.
Might see you up there one day...? I am just going into CPL course this winter and hope/fingers crossed I can get an IR sponsorship....???:eek:
Incidentally I have learnt tonnes flying in UK weather... Florida has a lot of blue sky I hear.... But training up there in Aberdeen would be perfect!
Chris

[FredFri]

You HAVE to do the ATPL(H) if you are planning on North Sea

+ 100 !

North Sea = multi-pilot operations and you must have ATPL theory to get a multi-pilot type rating.

[Bravo73]

North Sea = multi-pilot operations and you must have ATPL theory to get a multi-pilot type rating.

Strictly speaking, this doesn't seem to be a JAA requirement. (Your company ops might well have a more stringent requirement though.)

Have you got a LASORS or JAA FCL reference, Fred?


This is what my copy of LASORS has to say on the subject:

F8.3 REQUIREMENTS FOR THE
ENDORSEMENT OF A MULTI-PILOT
HELICOPTER TYPE RATING
Pre-requisite Conditions for training
An applicant for the first type rating for a MPH shall
provide evidence that the following requirements have
been met:-
a. Have completed at least 70 hours as
pilot-in-command of helicopters except that an
applicant for a multi-pilot type rating graduating
from a CPL(H) integrated course who has less
than 70 hours as pilot-in-command of helicopters
shall have the type rating issued limited to co-pilot
privileges only. To remove this limitation, an
applicant shall:
i. have completed 70 hours as
pilot-in-command or PIC US of helicopters;
and
ii. have passed the multi-pilot skill test on the
applicable helicopter type as
pilot-in-command in accordance with
JAR-FCL 2.262(b)
.b. hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of MCC
(unless this is part of the TRTO course or the
applicant is exempt as detailed in Section F10);
c. i. for a VFR type rating have completed the
course and passed the examination in
accordance with JAR-FCL 2.160 (a) and (b);
or
ii. for a type rating including IR(H) privileges hold
a CPL(H) and IR(H) or meet the requirements
of JAR-FCL 2.285 and hold an IR(H).


There doesn't seem to be any mention of ATPL theory requirements... :confused:

[Dump the pole]

You can get your Multi-engine rating on a multi-crew helicopter with a CPL but you won't be able to become a captain on multi-crew unless you have ATPL + IR + MCC + money

[212man]

B73, I agree in theory you don't need the credits for the MPH type (caused me a bit of puzzlement when I saw that!) but I guess from a practical viewpoint you don't want to be getting stuck into the books after a couple of years, to sit the ATPL exams, for the licence itself once you have the hours.

Edited to add, Dump the Pole, you will need the MCC for your first MPH type, regardless of licence or whether you are a captain or not.

[Dump the pole]

Agreed, I assumed that this would be the first multicrew ME type anyway for B73.

Also, don't forget that the ATPL theory will expire after three years if you don't get your IR in this time. (Covered in other threads many times)

DTP

[Bravo73]

Thanks 212 and DTP,

I knew what the regs are... ;) It just didn't sound like Fred did.

And thanks for the heads up re requirements, DTP. I've been telling newbies on multiple occasions on previous threads that you need the ATPLs if you want to be a multi-pilot captain (at some point in the future.) And it looks like that was a wrong assumption on your part - the quoted requirement wasn't for my benefit! :p

[FredFri]

Have you got a LASORS or JAA FCL reference, Fred?

Actually I only looked at the JAR-FCL (Amendment 6, I know Lasors is slightly different, maybe Lasors 2008?:)) and instead of stating :

" c. i. for a VFR type rating have completed the
course and passed the examination in
accordance with JAR-FCL 2.160 (a) and (b);
or
ii. for a type rating including IR(H) privileges hold
a CPL(H) and IR(H) or meet the requirements
of JAR-FCL 2.285 and hold an IR(H)."

it only says :

"(3) meet the requirements of JAR-FCL
2.285 as applicable for ATPL(H)"
(ie Atpl theory)


And also it depends (once again!!) on the State issuing your licence.
Lasors is only for UK, some european countries have implemented the FCL2 in its latest version.
(I appreciate this doesn't apply to 99% of the readers of this thread;))

[Bravo73]

OMG. There goes off another Amendment 6 'grenade'.

Sorry for doubting you, Fred. You obviously know the new regs far better than me! :O