Bristow & other Oz offshore pay deals

[GreenerGrass]

I'm in the offshore game in Oz but not with Bristow.
I've been informed by a couple of reliable sources that if management don't get their act together by the end of the year quite a few drivers will leave.
These aren't idle threats from disgruntled pilots but genuine plans to leave.
With all three offshore companies in OZ short of pilots how will Bristow manage to replace those that WILL leave, or will management finally come to the table?!
Don't they realise that there IS a shortage of multi-engine IFR helicopter pilots?!

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

Well, GG that’s a pretty emotive post, I have to say. Are you sure you are not in some way affected by this?

As I currently work for this Company, I can provide somewhat of an insight into what is currently occurring & perhaps offer my opinion on a few matters.................

The process has been long and not without hiccups, but a few things I must first point out……
I think overall, the vast majority of guys are happy to work for this Company (always exceptions). We have a pretty happy workforce on the whole (my opinion only).
Granted, most feel we are lagging the competition somewhat in the overall package, but I think most guys are committed to seeing the bargaining process through.
You must also understand that there is a process and we have not reached the end of it. Additionally (not supporting the management position, merely playing Devils advocate), they have a job to do in saying “NO” to what is being asked. When the process finally goes to vote (current EBA expires Feb 08) and, for example, a suitable package was not agreed upon, you may be correct in your assumption. Potentially & realistically, a percentage of pilots will no doubt leave. We have had 2 leave in the last 2 weeks and I do know that there others waiting like coiled springs for the Feb date. But, I have to say, I have faith in the body being united at present & I hope that it would not get to the point of good guys leaving. This however, is in the hands of the god’s. Let’s face it, the market has never been better for drivers.
As far as your comment “Don't they realise that there IS a shortage of multi-engine IFR helicopter pilots”. I am sure that they understand this, but to date, we have had a minimal number of pilots leave, therefore, they seem to be acting on the premise that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” (ie. Why pay more if we don’t have to). I really hope that it does not get to a point that guys I respect and enjoy working with are forced to go elsewhere. We currently have a large number of middle aged, experienced pilots & I get the impression that for some, leaving for a better deal in Oz or overseas is not an issue. Only time will tell. We have after all heard that to get a secondment these days, resigning is the only avenue due to OZ shortages.
I guess the overall comment to your post would be, we know the jobs are out there, there may be guys considering it, but I feel we are united in applying the pressures that would see a better deal here rather than jumping the fence prematurely. But hey, that’s me & I could be way off the mark……:rolleyes:

[Flapping to Equity]

These blokes get paid too much for doing nothing anyway. Let em go!! Maybe then, we can get a go at it.

Greengrass, what do I need to get a job with you blokes? (CHC or Jayrow?)

[kwikenz]

An attitude ... and maybe personality adjustment?
Good luck with doing the job though but I would suggest you are :ugh:
:ok:

[papa68]

kwikenz,

Well said mate :ok:. Sometimes I just don't get my fellow aviators...

FTE,

Your post suggests a complete lack of logic / knowledge on your part on a number of levels.:{

Firstly, I can only assume from what you've said that you haven't cracked it as far as making it into one of the better offshore operations and that you are indeed keen to do so.

However...

You already "know" that offshore chaps do nothing anyway. Does this mean you aspire to do nothing?:confused:

You dispute the fact that they should be paid better as they are already too well paid. Does that mean that if and when you do "get a go" you'll be happy to forgo any improvement in your ongoing conditions?:confused:

Despite not actually having made it to one of the more established offshore operators, you have already narrowed down your search to CHC and Jayrow (having struck Bristow's off your list) - a little presumtious don't you think?:confused:

Clearly you have no idea of the bigger picture here. It doesn't matter one iota who you work for, if salaries are on the up with ANY of the bigger operators, it has a flow on effect within the helicopter industry in Oz.

Those who are lucky enough to enjoy the conditions on offer from the major players owe a great debt of gratitude to those who have fought for those conditions.:ok: Currently, the environment for a significant improvement in those conditions is well established.

Would you prefer the conditions within the industry remain stagnant? If so, why not just stay where you are? Why would you want to work for CHC or Jayrow's? I believe their conditions are very attractive and as such probably wouldn't appeal to someone like yourself.

Anyway... based on all of this, I'm sure GG is just dying to get back to you in order to recommend you to management. Then again, maybe not... I hope during your interview you make a better first impression than in your post.

Despite all the above, good luck.

papa68:O

[Flapping to Equity]

Well Papa, you sound like Bristow Management to me.
Don't get me wrong, I bet it's all sweet were you are, but why would I move to Perth in the current climate. I may have an attitude, but I'm not an idiot!
As far as guys jumping ship, I'm sure they would be well qualified, but are they too Bristowized after years with one Company? I'm sure their experience would be welcomed somewhere else, but from what I've heard, there is a lot of "we always do it this way, casue we've always done it this way, so it must be right!"
Just looking to stir things up bit. Look forward to the next post...........

[TheMonk]

FTE,

Yes, you ARE an idiot! The biggest idiot I've come across in Rotorhead. Not only are you an idiot, you are a selfish idiot.:ugh:

Moderators, please edit as you see fit.

Monk

[zalt]

No - please leave the posts as they are.

The Flapping to Equity's idiocy will be preseved until he chooses to crawl back and delete them himself.

Never ceased to be amazed that the most controversial statements come from people with one or two posts.

[GreenerGrass]

FTE,

You do have no idea.

As to your "too Bristowised" comment I'll assure you all three offshore operators are pretty much the same. They have to be, otherwise they would not be successful in winning contracts from the resource companies who all like it pretty much standardised. So I don't believe any of the offshore companies would be your cup of tea.

I totally agree with P68. If there was not an financially attractive goal at the end of the hard slog through the industry then I'm sure many would not have even considered aviation. However this goal is no longer as attractive when compared with other industries, particularly the ones we support. The lowest paid people on our aircraft are the two up front.

If the Guys/Gals at Bristow can work with management to improve their own conditions then it will have a positive flow on for all in the industry not just the other two offshore companies.
Remember oil is no longer $10-15 a barrel, it's around $80 a barrel, so the helicopter companies can't plead financial hardship, or tell us they can't afford payrises. The costs just get passed onto the resource companies. Also know that CHC/Bristow/Jayrow have never found it so difficult to attract qualified pilots.
AusWhirly I'll be watching you guys with keen interest.

GG

[papa68]

FTE,

It appears you've made a lot of fans on this forum in a very short space of time. That's quite some doing! Clearly in your bookshop travels, you haven't as yet come across "How to Win Friends and Influence People". You might try chasing it up.;)

Again your logic is a little askew. You say your not an idiot but then follow it up with comments that suggest (prove?) otherwise. I'm quite sure that any of the major offshore operators would gladly employ a pilot from one of the other players provided they interviewed well etc.

Your assertion that such pilots might be too "Bristowized" (and therefore presumably the others would be too "CHCized" or "Jayrowized") is well...

... Hang on a sec, I'm just having a look to see if I can find any other posts on Rotorheads quite as ridiculous. Bugger - no joy. You win the award for silliest, off the cuff comment on Rotorheads.:uhoh:

About the only thing you've said that makes sense would be in regard to Bristow Australia's requirement to have new pilots move to Perth. :ok: Now as I'm NOT Bristow management, I have no power to change this.

I do agree with you that having someone move across the country as Bristow's currently require is off the mark. I'm sure plenty of good people (RTE - note I said good people) have bypassed Bristow's as a result. It is and will continue to be to Bristow's detriment.:{

Nothing wrong with having an attitude mate but you might want to channel it a little more effectively... you know, in order to win all those friends and influence people etc.

papa68:O

[ApocalypseThen]

Real Idiots are those who bite so savagely at an obvious wind-up.Check FTE`s other posts for a completely different tone .

[hornylittlepuma]

Hi guys and girls,
I'm with the opposition and I'm wondering if there's any truth to the rumours of "massive pay rises" at Bristow Oz. I've heard that a casual coey can make $500 per day (not sure gross or net), and that they are moving guys to Karratha.
Anyone with accurate news?
Thanks.
:ok:

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

HLP,
You hear right (almost). There may be a massive payrise happening, but not with the full time guys!!
The deal is for a fixed 12 month contract, which can be extended by another 12 months. I figures it's the Companies attempt to attract North Sea guys. The rates are gross and are;
Capt: $720 day + DTA
SFO: $650 day + DTA
FO: $550 day + DTA.
Flights from anywhere in the world are also included in this.
Must come with an endorsment and suitable experince to fit into one of the categories. They were looking ofr 10 guys on each type (AS332L & S76). I am led to beleive that they are largly filled (7 X 76 and 7 by SP...roughly?)

Thing that really sucks about this, is that the Company keeps telling the full time guys (many of whom have showed 'committment' by moving to Perth, or moved back East, but still pay for airfares) that there is no more money to pay us, we have the best deal possible. Looks like a pretty big slap in the face when a deal is put on the table right in the middle of pay negotiations.
When Grassisgreeener made his post, it was intially about BHA pilots leaving. The biggest affect of this deal has been to damage morale. A few guys have started looking elsewhere, not only in Oz, but overseas. The say they are waiting for the vote. If it doesn't come off, time to punch out.
My concern, as someone who enjoys working for the Company, is that we will loose good people that we shouldn't have to for something so trivial.
I just hope all of our guys stick to their guns.

[kwikenz]

There was talk that Jayrow management were heard to casually comment that they would give their guys whatever Bristow got plus some... I find it an unlikley anecdote but it might finally signal good times for the industry.
Maybe some of the prosperity will filter down and we might get paid as much as an offshore cleaner!? Heres hoping :ok:

[northseaspray]

Thing that really sucks about this, is that the Company keeps telling the full time guys (many of whom have showed 'committment' by moving to Perth, or moved back East, but still pay for airfares) that there is no more money to pay us, we have the best deal possible. Looks like a pretty big slap in the face when a deal is put on the table right in the middle of pay negotiations



Fortunately, our CLA doesn't allow the company to hire contractors, so all the salary increase is invested into people committed to a career within. As a result we get a more stable workforce, which is good for both the pilots and the company.

[GreenerGrass]

I've crunched the figures and $720/day + DTA equates to an annualy salary of $129600 + DTA working the standard 15/13 + 4 weeks leave roster.

[spinwing]

Arrrrrrrr Yes !

.... but how much of that will you be giving to the "Peter Costello Benevolent Fund" (soon to be renamed?) .....

:E

[gulliBell]

Excuse me if I've missed the point. Can't imagine for a second Bristow will bring in any of our North Sea friends as foreign contractors, whatever the daily rates? Foreign doctors and nurses etc, for sure, shortages of occupants in those professions are desperately needed here. But there are so many helicopter pilots in Australia not working who should be working that it would be inconceivable that the necessary visa for foreign helicopter pilot contractors would be granted.

I thought on recent form that Bristows were putting on low experience local hires and nuturing them through their training systems, and for which they should be commended. Is that still not the case??

$500/day + DTA for FO's is a good rate, better money than working as a P1 in PNG.

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

flungdung & gulliBell,
Hate to rain on your parade, but there are a few North Sea guys (OK contractors, not full timers) arriving tomorrow to start in Karratha on these rates.......
It's actually not that bad for them. OK granted, Karratha may not be the best place to work/live (consider Shetlands/Nigeria/etc...can't comment on them as I have not been there, but Karratha does have a bit to offer.....), but the rate is not too different to what they are currently on as contractors. Let me elaborate....

Current captain rate: $720 Aus + DTA = around $820.
Current BIAGL rate: 320 pounds, no DTA = $736.
It is no coincidence that the $720/day kinda works out to $736 once converted from British Pounds. It's the additional DTA that get them over the line here, therefore putting the onto a better deal than BIAGL.

Keep in mind that when the rate is so close, throw into the deal the fact that a year in OZ might be a good thing/nice holiday or change, I can tell you. IT'S A FACT: There are guys coming from the UK, as much as I F#@%ing hate it!! Unfortunately, we don't have that nice little protection clause over here, even though it has been fought with the federation!
All we can do is stick to our guns & work hard to come up with the best deal we can get. If it has a flow on affect to the industry...you beauty!! Let's grow together!

Also:

I thought on recent form that Bristows were putting on low experience local hires and nuturing them through their training systems, and for which they should be commended. Is that still not the case??Good point, you are partially correct. This is kind of the case, except that the Company is growing at such a rate (including turning contracts down, as I'm sure the other 2 operators are doing due to manpower shortages) that the system simply cannot keep up.
If suitable applicants were there & the trainers could train them, they would be filling seats, trust me. There was a time not too long ago when the main shortage was lack of hardware (aircraft). With the new types being introduced into Bristow the world over (I hope we get them one day:)) and the old equipment is being sent here to squeeze the final years out, now software (pilots) is now the main limitation.

[High Nr]

I always have been a Great Supporter of this local underdog, and Yes you would be suprised James.

Didn't Jayrow bring in the 3 week roster and live anywhere in Oz that you want?....Whilst CHC pushed you to Darwin and BH to Perth.
And you had to fund your own passage to home if home was not in those two capital cities.
And now with a C++ to play with and 2 x 139's or order?

My informant also says he now gets his family around the world on holidays free, because of the new managements viewpoint of not screwing staff as hard as the rest seem to do.

[Jayrow Pilot]

High NR

Don't say anything more about the 139s, the info isn't out there yet.

[kwikenz]

Jayrow with 139's? As with any of the big operators... Ill believe it when I see it.

Bristow is meant to be getting 2 x 139's which sounds much more likley but all credit to Jayrow if theres any weight to that rumour.

[gulliBell]

The C++ and AW139 are competitors in the same markets. It's not unheard of to use a C++ as an interim measure until an AW139 becomes available. Maybe that's what's happening here??

[feelerup]

Hey the money sounds great in this lark, I've just been fanging aroud in the 500 lately but looking for a new armchair .
This IFR stuff , sounds pretty easy , I've been trimming up the 500 and closing me eyes for a bit , pretty simple really .
I've got good at it so would that help me through the training ?

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

Mate,
No offense, but you wouldn't be "Flapping to Equity" by any chance would ya?

[Aussie Mate]

Yah done it now mate!
You can criticise our airlines, yah can criticise our towns, and even our women, but you are stooping a wee to low when you start on our beer!

Yah been warned mate.

[ivan]

Jayrow would appear to still have a preference for fixed-basing their pilots, in fact I believe only 2 of their mob are tourers. Those guys may well get to live where they want and work a 3/3, but for now the majority of guys will have to relocate just like CHC and Bristows with Darwin/Perth. Given the apparent lack of response to Jayrow's Tooradin fixed-base offshore captain positions it is surely only a matter of time before the company has to allow touring. Lets face it, if you can't get guys to relocate to a job just outside of "cosmo" Melbourne, then you're unlikely to find a bunch of IFR captains ready to live full-time in Karratha!
The company did an awesome job with their maintenance contracts, and as such CHC has lost guys to the Tooradin operation where they alledgedly now earn some of the highest salaries in the field and tour their guys from all over to make it work.
Jayrow,CHC and Bristow must also realise that they would significantly open up their recruiting net if they allowed guys to tour from all over Australia. You have to pay more, but you should have more depth and quality from which to recruit, and it has to be cheaper than bringing guys down from the UK with all the associated relocation costs. Stop turning down the contracts - open up to Australia-wide touring schedules and pass the costs on to the oil companies. They simply cannot keep the business going without offshore helicopter support and if they have to pay more for it, then so be it. With oil at $87 a barrel, I'm sure a few airline tickets is a drop in the ocean.
Rant over.....

[havick]

$88/barell

[ivan]

My point exactly!!:ok:

[Loose Mast Nut]

Think you maybe wrong on this front about living at home..

But you are right, the Engineers at Tooradin are the best paid in the Industry, and the most respected ones as well.

Nut!

[GreenerGrass]

If Bristow can afford to pay the equivalent of $130000pa to touring captains from overseas why can't they, and the other two companies, afford to pay the same salary to their home based employees (both fixed based and touring)? I'm sure they all can! So with all EBA's and agreements set to expire next year and the following at all three maybe it's time to remind respective management of this.

[K48]

Flung Dung.. :} You had me in tears of laughter. It's topical... Kylie was asked about the rugby at her premier....:D
Anyway don't any of you windsurf/surf? Perth would be my dream posting! And Gnarloo is not too far from Karratha... a world class left... DREAM WAVE you know..!? It's about 3kms long and perfect glassy waves with crossoffshore winds....
I am just newby CPLH here in the UK with Kiwi PPL + commercial underslung load and mountain ratings... but if anyone knows how I can get on those programs I would not mind being Bristowised, Jayrowised or any otherised!
Sorry Aus.. I'm a comin! But we are all Brits deep down!

<Bracing for reaction...:uhoh:>

[Twin Head]

K48

I am sure the great white sharks that live in the water under that dream wave in WA will give you the ozzie welcome:D

[Loose Mast Nut]

Me thinks you are underpaid!

Certain handful in the sunny MW Shelf are reporting packages of AUD$180K plus Airline Travel free!!

Sshhhhh......don't tell the Poms, they might just stay!

[maxeemum]

Loose Mast Nut,

Ivan has his facts right. There are only 2 touring pilots in Jayrow at present and as for $180k in the MW? NW Shelf the guys & gals up there are welcome to it.

The alleged figures you quote are for fixed based positions (not touring) and given that Karatha is the social hub of the universe this stiil adds up to $100k/yr salary and $80k/yr drinking piss so you can forget you live in Karatha.

Max

:p

[K48]

Shark's dont like us poms.... anyway..

Did I hear someone mention the rugby?
:}:}:}:}:}

[papa68]

Guys,

You can hardly call what the Poms are playing "Rugby". Kicking practice for little Johnny perhaps...:}

For the good of the game, go South Africa!

papa68 - A disappointed Wallaby fan.:{

P.S. How did we get on to Rugby? Let's focus on something we have won like the Cricket, Rugby League, the MotoGP etc. Ah that's better... world order has been restored.

[Venator]

AusWhirlyBusDriver

Ok granted, Karratha may not be the best place to work/live (consider Shetlands/Nigeria/etc...

Rrrright, last time I checked, Shetland had not featured regularly in the news with Kidnappings, shootings and an assortment of violent crime which is associated with Nigeria.

With friendly locals and wildlife and a clean & unspoilt enviroment, it ain't even in the same ballpark.
Granted the winter weather can test you but thats where you find the nearest cosy pub. You can even wander around in the hours of darkness if you like.:ok:

[Sputnik57]

AusWhirlyBus,

Good to have a ppruner with inside info who can dispel the pay figures being quoted for Karratha.

Here's what Bristows have been offering Aussie Based contractors.

First Officer
$400 Per day daily rate, $97 DTA plus 9% Super. Airfares from the East Coast. Paid fortnightly.

Am I missing something, or are you saying the English are getting better and higher offers than the Aussies?

Australian rates are improving and it is hard to justify working overseas with the exchange rate and family instability that touring creates. Karratha is great for kids I am told.

What is the fixed base package and please do not tell me that Tooradin crap of 180K!

Safe Skies.:ok:

[Choppie]

A quick question. How does one get into offshore companies from the private sector? With an ATPL and no multi engine time?

[spinwing]

Mmmmm....

You are either lucky .... or you know someone ( ie the "Old Boy Network").

:(

[hornylittlepuma]

Anyone have any news on the Bristow EBA due in February? I've heard that it'll be 30%+. Is that near the mark?

[floatsarmed]

The Bristow EBA is still in process with a 30% salary and conditions increase being the main demand by the pilot body. Apparently there is a strong resolve by an overwhelming majority of their pilots to stick to their demands.
Given the current qualified offshore pilot shortage and amount of work on the cards in the NW for Bristow, it looks good for them to get a really good deal which hopefully will flow on to other sectors of the industry in Australia.
:ok: Here's hoping anyway.
FA

[movin' up]

From what I saw lately in Karratha, the industrial action has begun.

Bristow pilots are refusing to press their shirts until they receive a pay rise sufficient to allow them to buy a steam iron without paying in installments.

What's it all about guys?:E

[gulliBell]

Movin' up, your credibility has just flown right out the window...we all know that Bristow pilots have housekeepers to do all their shirt pressing !! :ok:

And what's with BRISTOW advertising for contract As332/S76 Commanders, surely that move is out of the ordinary? Might it be part of a move to get the Immigration Department to grant more employment visas for foreigners to work here, because they "can't" source locally qualified candidates to fill positions?

[PO dust devil]

Sounds like gullibell is on the money there.

[GreenerGrass]

Pepi 72,

All in the industry will be watching carefully to see how BHA managment handle the EBA early next year.
It's time for management to realise that it is FAR cheaper to increase terms and conditions for their own permanent staff than to lose them and then have to recruit and train new people.
How much is it for a command endorsement on the 76, 332 or even 92? Around $50K or more I'd say. Plus all the other associated induction costs.
If management aren't concerned about keeping their permanent staff happy, and don't care of they come and go, then that's what will happen.
They probably won't care until flights to the rigs are cancelled due to the "unforeseen" shortage of crews. Then it will be an issue. Quick do something about it! Don't want the clients to know there's a problem being hidden from them!

[itoldyouso]

There is an aussie company that this happened too.

It is almost a mirror image of what BHA are doing.

Any yes, their staff left too.

:ugh:

[gulliBell]

Only one?

Let me guess....AH

Or might it be...HA

Or perhaps both?

Whether it's AH, HA or now BHA, perhaps there's a common denominator there..and it's not just the H and A :O

[Bravo73]

Specifically Poms, it would seem... :E


http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/commanders-australia-western-australia-10177182.htm


"Preference will be given to candidates with North Sea command experience."

[flapnfeather]

Any more news on this subject?

[gulliBell]

fnf: my completely unfounded and uninformed hunch would be to expect more Bristow's friendly foreigners coming down-under our way with sponsored work visas. Not because the company can't source qualified Australians to do the work, because they can. More so because it suits a more favourable "staff mix" to counter what soon might lay ahead for them in the Industrial context.

As unfounded and uninformed as I am, reckon I'll be proved right.

[tribal]

I think that would be a fair assumption, as the australian pilots are well known for being somewhat militant, at least in the bar, if not up front. That is, not to say all are afflicted, but unfortunately they tend to band together and not always for the correct reasons, as they will turn on each other as well if no other subject presents itself.
Fortunately however there is a number of fine pilots from the same country who are not bandwagon jumpers, and will conduct themselves with integrity , so not all is bad.

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

AusWhirlyBus,

Good to have a ppruner with inside info who can dispel the pay figures being quoted for Karratha.

Here's what Bristows have been offering Aussie Based contractors.

First Officer
$400 Per day daily rate, $97 DTA plus 9% Super. Airfares from the East Coast. Paid fortnightly.

Am I missing something, or are you saying the English are getting better and higher offers than the Aussies?

Australian rates are improving and it is hard to justify working overseas with the exchange rate and family instability that touring creates. Karratha is great for kids I am told.

What is the fixed base package and please do not tell me that Tooradin crap of 180K!

Sputnik,
You are pretty close on the 'old' casual rates. The new rates that have been quoted are for "fixed term contractors". Essentially, this is a new fancy word to get around AFAP and IR comission legal mumbo-jumbo.
Basically, the new contract rates ($720/$650/$550 per day for Capt/SFO/FO + DTA) should do nothing else but highlight the fact the the money IS AVAILABLE.
The time is now for all in the industry. We are being left tragically behind.

[GreenerGrass]

If they are the rates Bristow are offering "new hires" then that should be the going rate all in the industry. Take note all reps on the respective pilot councils.

Oz Whirly,

Check your PM's.

GG

[Sputnik57]

AusWhirlyBus
Good to hear from you finally, must have been off Tour?
If the AFAP cannot get action against B'Stows for importing/outsourcing employment and seek injunctions against this employment based on the fibs told to Immigration about no suitable applicants onshore, then I wll be F--ked! Why pay a grand a year to be represented so I can sit beside an Expat being paid more than me. No thanks! :ugh:
You might just as well stick a revolving door on Redcliffe, you just lost another Pilot to VicPol. :D
Anyway my English is not that good so perhaps the Poms can teach us something.
Still, not as bad as J'Row. They have Yanky accents.
Really are you going to put up with this takeover and financial slap in the face?:ugh:
Back to Orbit.

[gulliBell]

The object in earth orbit makes a few interesting points here. Whilst retaining my claim as always to be completely uninformed on almost everything, I have taken the liberty to read through the "sponsoring a temporary overseas worker to Australia" book and it makes me wonder just how they did it (not that I will lose any sleep over it mind you, not my business). Obviously Bristow's have done it, perhaps by relying on the regional employment concessions (Karratha is a regional area isn't it??), assisted also perhaps by a few porkie pies (for the benefit of our English friends reading here, the porkie pies referred to are not of the edible kind). Point being, if you can't find suitably qualified helicopter pilots in Karratha, you can import them from overseas as long as you pay them the same (or more than) Australian pilots. That's my reading of it in a nutshell.

No doubt AFAP are watching this closely, but if it's going ahead, and it is, (and as it has in the past) then I reckon there's not much more AFAP can/will do about it (they never really recovered any industrial might following the 80's pilot's strike). Unless of course it comes to light that there are qualified Australian pilots available yet being overlooked, or even under-done qualified Australian pilots who can be trained to do the job. So if anyone has been overlooked at Bristow, do the Australian thing and gripe about it!!

Don't Bristows have any SFO's to bump up to Command, replace those SFO's with new hire FO's sourced from GA? That's how it should work. The pilots are definitely out there, the flying schools are churning them out by the dozen. Bump up the SFO's to meet vacancies, and invest in a training pipeline to replace them with FO's. The need to provide an adequate training pipeline far exceeds any need to hire foreign workers. But if you are a foreigner working here on $800+ per day, welcome, and good on you. Take as much of it as you can get and we'll live in a cockpit of international matrimonial harmony. Just don't criticize the coldness of our beer :D

[Twin Head]

What a shame Bristows policy of co-pilots and captains have finally caught up with them. :ugh: Too young co-pilots and direct entry captains are a no no. Its a shame that they would not hire 30+ year old SFO,s with all the ticks in the boxes, if they did they would have plenty to promote. Hear that they could only fill 9 out of 30 spots vacant for puma and 76, if you were not endorsed on these, dont apply. Hmm, better look else where hey!!!!!:ugh:

[High Nr]

Your full of venom, for an unqualified CPL in the big boys end of the show.

I guess both JH and BHL have overlooked your attempts to be recognised, wonder why?

Get a life, after you have proved yourself in the industry.

Looser!

[Sputnik57]

High NR,
You must be tired and emotional since I think you should have put your last post in "Jayrow Australia conditions" where your facts are often questioned.:eek:
I am told a CPL in Jayrow can do very well these days! Hey, wait a minute don't you have one as a Captain on the beloved twin fleet in Karratha as we speak! Are you calling him an underachiever?
Anyway must update that profile some day, far too busy in the Highly Proffesional IFR twin Community that is so hard to get a job in. Seriously, if you cannot get a twin job in Australia at the moment you need to change direction in life!
I would not take a pay check from you fools even if you gold plated the Data plates and paid DTA actually on time. Yep thats right, the boys still getting screwed around with money! Could it be a cash flow problem?
So just take it on the chin when even the current Pilot's point out the facts about this employer that gives the readers a more balanced idea against you continued blind support.
Final point, if J'Row management truly hold the ATPL in such high regard, then in what regard do you hold those who obtain them in the FAA system?:ok:
Back to Orbit.

[flipcelia]

Gents, pleeease.....

It is because of attitudes like these past few posts that we as professional helicopter pilots are paid so poorly! The problem is (and management know it)some are so quick to cut others down others for self gain that in the long run we all suffer (see your payslip for proof)

IDEA - How about you all focus some of this energy you seem to have in banding together to get the outcomes every pilot wants - MORE MONEY. Let me assure you all, that if BHA, CHC or Jayrow get good pay rises in the near future, that everyone will benefit at some stage in their career!

ATPL,CPL, FAA, CASA....who gives a flying saucer! Has the guy got the tick in the box for the job? Does he have the right attitude? Is he safe? Is he prepared to embrace new ideas? If he has these qualities then I'm sure he's right for the job. Please tell me what you got out of doing the CASA ATPL subjects that makes you better/safer than a CPL? Probably not much!

SOLUTIONS, NOT PROBLEMS! Guy's if everyone wants to benefit from the current market demands, how about listing some SOLUTIONS here. How are we going to convince our employers to PAY THE MONEY WE DESERVE?

I'll start the ball rolling with a really new concept....

1) Band together and stay united.
2) Think how your actions will affect your workmates now and in the future. No more "The moneys not great, but I'll take it anyway"


Flip

[Fareastdriver]

It’s not all one way. In the 80’s Bristow were short of pilots in Aberdeen. To overcome this they recruited pilots from Oz. They were all CPLH(V) or muster pilots and were trained up to ATPL m/e IR and flew the North Sea. Their pay and allowances far exceeded the money their equivalent UK pilot was getting but nobody moaned about it. I would have a bloke sitting next to me with less than 30 hours twin engine and offshore experience getting paid more than I was.
When Bristow had a redundency scheme none of the foreign pilots were laid off because the company couldn't get a tax rebate for them.
In the last few years I have known Oz pilots working short term contract overseas and making a pile of mortgage repayment money but again the permanent residents didn’t complain. I do it. My pay is astronomical compared with the national pilots with the same qualifications but there is no resentment. They need me now, when they don’t they will show me the door..
Should a company not be able to source experienced M/E I/R captains that meets it own or the oil companies criteria from within or nationally then it has to recruit from the rest of the world. To get somebody to shift from half the world away for a year or two you have to pay. That is a fact of life.

The price of oil is in a sustained growth period similar to the 70s and there was the same panic for pilots then. Forward planning for recruitment and training has to be based on a five year forcast and no helicopter company has had that amount of warning. Just look at the airline industry, they have the same problem but for different reasons.

As far as disliking sitting beside a Expat (previously Pom in that particular post) is concerned I have been privileged to fly over a considerable part of this world. I have sat beside Frogs, Krauts, Noggies, Cloggies, Wops, Diegos, Canuks, Czechs, Ragheads, Slopeheads, Chinks, Nips, Yanks, Poles, Wogs, Kiwis, Yarps and even Australians but I have never disliked fellow pilots because of where they came from or how much they were earning.

[tomotomp]

Fareastdriver
well said that man.....:ok::ok::ok:

[cougar77]

Going back to the title of the thread, your opportunity has come to find out all the answers you need....just attend any one of these:

BRISTOW

Bristow is one of the world's largest providers of helicopter services providing the safest and most efficient helicopter transportation, maintenance, search and rescue and aviation support worldwide.
You're invited!

Information Sessions for Pilot and Engineers
28th November - Brisbane
29th November - Adelaide
30th November – Melbourne

We would like to invite you to come along to an evening information session to talk about joining Bristow and now we can develop your career with a global leader.
In our growing fleet there are AS332, S76's, BK117's and a BELL 206.

We would like to hear form people qualified on these aircraft or with significant experience on them.
If you would like to attend, please contact Helen Zahra, Recruitment Adviser on (08) 9478 3388 or email [email protected] ([email protected]) for further details.
Venues to be confirmed upon confirmation of attendance.

[cougar77]

Sputnik57

I am sure you are well aware that International Helicopter operations eg. Africa, Middle East, Asia etc have expat pilots of various nationalities (including Aussies) working for them. Airline operators are no different having expat pilots.

Having said that, if pilots from anywhere in the world can obtain the necessary licences, right to work and employment from the respective country authorities. Good on them as they have put in their fair share of effort on their part.

so I can sit beside an Expat being paid more than me. No thanks! :ugh:


You may very well one day be one of those "expat pilots"

[papa68]

Ladies & Gents,

A lot has been spoken of the BHA domicile on this and other threads but it has come to my attention that CHC have had a "rethink" of their domicile policy and the requirement to live in Darwin has (or is about to be) recinded.

This I believe deserves a well deserved pat on the back to CHC for recognising that pilots are people and therefore need to be near their families and friends. A lot is made of the cash side of the house but ultimately money doesn't keep people happy in the same way that staying connected with loved ones does.

This is a SIGNIFICANT improvement in the conditions that CHC pilots will enjoy in the future.

Apparently, the $10,000 / $20,000 Darwin allowance (depending on when you joined) has not attracted the numbers / quality of personnel required for future expansion.

Hopefully this will promote a review of the policy amongst the other companies. If nothing else, recruitment (and retention) would presumably be made a lot easier. I'm sure there would be plenty of suitable applicants applying if they weren't required to move to locations such as Darwin, Perth etc.

Handing over...

P68:O

[gulliBell]

P68 is mostly right, I heard it directly from the horses mouth myself only yesterday so it must be true. $50k or thereabouts for FO depending on experience, touring, no need to live in Darwin. My only point of disagreement is, Perth is a nice spot.

[papa68]

Gullibell,

Mate - hate to get finicky here (but I will anyway). No mention in my post of Perth not being a nice place in my post nor was it inferred (the same goes for Darwin).

So that must make me now completely right, oui?:p

The main thing is we agree on the bigger picture of domicile being sorted out at CHC and that has to be a good thing for all tourers.

P68:O

[gulliBell]

Yeah, I forgot the :ok: at the end of the Perth bit, :{ Wasn't having a crack at you P68 ... my claim to be completely uninformed on everything remains...we're still sweet

GB

[schrauber]

It's a pity that BHA management needs a reasonable number of experienced pilots to leave prior to accepting that they may be an issue.
I think 4 in total have left over the last three months.
I wonder what BHA management will consider enough?
Presently the company is loosing more than they are gaining, therefore going backwards as far as recruting(Crewing) is concerned - yet there is no problem apparently.
Australian pilots are one of or the lowest paid pilots in the global Bristow system, yet senior management recently visiting from the UK, inform us that Australia was the only global unit that had exceeded profit targets.
BUT we can not afford to fly you from any capital city or pay you 30% more.
Why wouldn't you look for other options. Management exceed targets and are getting bonuses while pilots and engineers are getting F....!

One team my arse.:*

[flapnfeather]

Any further developments?

After the wage review early in 2008 what is the pay likely to be Captains/Senior FOs/FOs?

[hornylittlepuma]

c'mon guys, your all carrying on like CHC Oz/BHA Oz are the only companies in the world, Open your eyes, it's a big world out there!!
AUD$58K? before tax? peanuts!! :yuk:
Your professionals with peoples lives in your hands, you deserve much better. But your only gonna get it if you put in some effort. I'm not talking about going to some s*%t hole in africa, there's plenty of very good jobs out there for pilots, and families, who wanna get off the couch and try something different.
Don't get me wrong, i love living in Oz, and i'll come back one day when aircrew are given a fair international rate, but as long as aussie pilots (and engineers) sell out to upper management it'll never happen.

There's no shortage of Australian pilots, only a shortage of pilots willing to work in Australia. Bring up the rates and the boys will come home!

:ok:

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

Hey guys,
The post kinda fell silent for a few months there. Might be time to flash things up again, as there has been some movement in the last few weeks.....

Just heard a rumour that CHC pilot's have been offered 18%/5%/5% from May 08. Can anybody shed some light?

CHC Pilots are currently around 6-11% in front of BHA, depending on experience. That increase would put them miles in front, not to mention throw in Domicile on the East Coast.
I have always thought guys would not jump ship from one main player to another, but for those numbers, you would have to be an idiot not to!
I also heard that CHC has delivered an immediate $18,000 pay rise to engineeers to stop them jumping ship to BHA. Sounds awefully like one player is serious & the other is not........

Unfortunately, the BHA management ethos has traditionally been "nobody is leaving & we have never had a NO vote in an EBA, so why should we pay more?"
Talk about dangerous/hazardous attitudes?

Anyway, without getting off the subject, could anyone confirm the CHC offer?

[GreenerGrass]

Oz Whirly,

I'd heard the same figures thrown around. If this is true then good and about time. At least one company is having the sense to respond to market forces. Check the current CHC Pilots Agreement on wagent.gov.au and add your percentages. These figures should be industry standard and should keep pilots in Oz.

You're right in that it's funny how management complain about being unable to source the pilots they need but ignore one of the obvious solutions, better conditions in a tight market. This ignorance, arrogance adds to their "woes" when their current pilots leave for better conditions.

Looks like CHC have raised the bar.

GG

[movin' up]

Bristow look like their "head in the sand" domicile policy will bite them again. With CHC offering touring from the East Coast, I know of two more BHA pilots that are ready go over to the Hummingbird.

Will a sweet deal on the EBA be enough to stop them? Whatever happens CHC will still end up ahead, on salary and consideration of employees domestic requirements.

A move to CHC also means they dont have to wear the bloody ridiculous shirts, doesnt Redcliffe know that the crinkled look is so 80's?

[High Nr]

Of course CHC will offer Touring out of the Eastcoast.

Thats only because they don't have touring contracts on the West Coast - Darwin [Timor] and Truscott only remember.

From experience, trust me, if any pilot jumps a ship for a few dollars, beware, their life in the industry is very limited.

But then again, Bob maybe happy to see them go anyway.

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

A move to CHC also means they dont have to wear the bloody ridiculous shirts, doesnt Redcliffe know that the crinkled look is so 80's?Come on guys, let's leave the shirt deal outta this. It's like the 3rd comment on shirts in the thread....
If you got an issue that is so huge about the new shirts and it is causing so much angst (which clearly it must be to some), start your own thread, don't highjack this one!
Some suggestions for the title "my shirt is creased, maybe the industry will care?" or "I don't like the new shirts, I'm leaving!":mad:

Jeez man, let's get bac on track: pay & conditions.

[GreenerGrass]

Good one Oz Whirly,

While we're on this. I see CHC and Bristow both have EBA's being "negotiated". What about the other offshore operator in Oz? When is Jayrow's EBA up for negotiation/renewal. If it's soon it would be interesting to compare the three.

GG

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

GG,
Good stuff mate, This is what we need....banding together!!
I happen to know of a few good men who are on the BHA Pilot Committee. If you know of anyone at Jayrow, or anyone else out there does, drop me a PM and I can make the appropriate introductions.
I do know that there has been alot of rumours with Jayrow deals & whenever the people I talk to try ot confirm details, it is hard to follow up with hard evidence.
Working together and swapping industry specific information has to be the way ahead!
Good one GG:ok:

[papa68]

Now back to those shirts AWBD :}

Stop hijacking this thread with stuff about pay and conditions. I believe there are shirts out there that badly need ironing! Let's keep ALL the big issues out there, not just the little stuff like money...

P68:O

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

Well, my sources say that the deal of 15% as of May then 5% Jan 09, 5% Jul 09 were accepted by CHC management.
Additionally, 2 extra weeks of leave (6 total per year) has been sought & management is going to Canada for approval. Interesting indeed.
Combine this with a captial city domicile policy & it makes for a good industry standard. Glad to see the boys are having a win in negotiations.

Has got to be good for pilot's on the whole one would think.:)

[GreenerGrass]

Oz Whirly,

Just confirm: in total that's 25% from May 08 to Jul 09 (just over a year)! If that's true lets see what the other companies have to offer. There are only a certain amount of multi-engine IFR drivers around. They will naturally be drawn to the highest bidder.

GG

[maxeemum]

Wow that is excellent news for the industry in general. I guess folks will gravitate towards employers of choice that combine sustainable work routines with adequate leave cycles and industry standard coin.......

As Bob Dylan wrote....."The times they are a changing!"

Max

:ok:

[papa68]

Hi guys,

AWBD,

You are quite correct in your assertions re the pay deal on offer. The question is, will their PC and pilots go for it?

All,

It's become abundantly clear that CHC is making a move to be the preferred off-shore employer in Oz. Have they got a massive expansion plan on? Given their pay is already 6 - 11% better than it's nearest rival, the recent domicile re-think and the pay offer on the table, they'll be streets ahead.

For example - a mid-level CAPT with the competition who lives on the east coast, it'll be an increase of over $36,000 before tax (ah... that's $1800 / month for the mathematically challenged). That kind of difference kills off any kind of loyalty one might have.

My sources from CHC tell me that a CAPT from BHA is already making serious enquiries but no details obviously. I expect there will be more to follow.

P68:O

[212man]

it'll be an increase of over $36,000 before tax (ah... that's $1800 / month for the mathematically challenged)

It was $3000/month when I went to school....or have you taxed it?

[High Nr]

I think you will find the following is factual:

Bristow’s pay the least with an attitude to boot!, but with a more than reasonable superannuation system.
CHC pays straight down the line, with both a reasonable superannuation system and Salary Protection Insurance
Jayrow have lead the race in the last three years, and if the rumors are true about their small touring force living anywhere they want and the other rumor about paid family holidays, they should stay in that position.

The bottom line boys, the big three will all be within a few % of each other when the final calculations are compared.

[CYHeli]

Do Jayrow off-shore still do the least number of hours?
Their on-shore Capt's do a fair few, but it's a different pay scale isn't?

[papa68]

212 Man,

Apologies old chap - I should have explained it a bit better. It was indeed meant to be $1800 / month after tax. For most, the bottom line is what really matters and given the tax brackets we're talking about, 40% of any additional salary will be taken by the ATO. It's possibly one of the reasons the salaries here need to be increased so substantially - tax.

News to hand - my sources tell me that CHC have apparently approved the extra 2 weeks of leave for the CHC off-shore guys in Oz. I don't have anything concrete at this stage in the way of proof but these are interesting times indeed...

High NR,

Your point is taken but the latest initiatives from CHC have actually widened the gap to a point where the disparity has become tangible. Just my thoughts.

P68:O

[anonythemouse]

I note that there is a lot of talk about percentages on this thread but what do the proposed new CHC wages for P1 & P2 add up to in hard currency, on-shore and off-shore. How far behind are the rest?

[griffothefog]

Have Bristow taken on any pilots to live full time in Kerratha from the UK? Or has the new labour vote given them a change of tack?:E

[movin' up]

A senior captain and a training captain quitting?

Those shirts really are driving the guys away.


Or is it the pay?:cool:

[John Galt]

With the increase in pays for those who don't fly 'offshore' I think there are more pilots asking themselves 'why live in a +*&^%hole half my life when one can get a good/well rewarded job closer to home'. It's getting to the point where unless the renumeration increases guys will 'move on' where as a few years ago they probably thought this was a job 'for life'

[206LDriver]

John,

I could not agree with you more and am currently asking myself the same question. If I could be home with my family every night on slightly less money it really is a no-brainer.

[Heli-phile]

With that attitude I would not hold your breath!!
Might be a long wait!!

[papa68]

movin' up,

Mate, it's all about the shirts - how many times do we need to go through this??? Sure AWBD wants to talk about pay and conditions etc (and he's perfectly entitled to his view of course) but that's just his view! It's clear to everyone else that attire is key here and CHC and the rest wear nice flying suits. It's a no brainer. AWBD - not a peep out of you thanks with your extremist and contrary views! ;)

John Galt & 206L Driver,

Your views are noted but I don't think they're necessarily correct. Whilst there may be a couple of jobs that involve staying at home on pay similar to that of tourers, they are v few and far between. Most of the good jobs still pay well under $100,000 or thereabouts whilst a tourer will be paid approx $15,000 to $30,000+ more.

Some points to note when comparing the two types of employment:

1. If we take that difference to be approx $1,125 (average take home pay after tax at 40%), then it can (and does) make a difference to a lot of helo guys.

2. Many tourers don't pay for their food whilst on tour.

3. Most off-shore positions (if not all) have 4 weeks of leave (CHC has reportedly moved to 6 weeks). This means you should only be away for 5 months of the year.

4. Field leave is in 2 to 3 week blocks which allows tourers a lot of freedom to do other things in their spare time e.g. study, take o/s holidays, seek additional work etc.

5. The ability and potential for salaries to increase in the off-shore sector I believe are far greater than for that in EMS in the short to medium term. An ability to pay is one issue but a major factor I suspect is the inundation of ex-military types working in EMS using their pensions to top up what are otherwise lower salaries. When those eligible for pensions from the military dry up, then EMS salaries might improve somewhat, esp if they want to attract ex-mil types.

6. The off-shore sector has a "progression system" that brings in young and relatively inexperienced pilots and grooms them for command positions. Which EMS operator in Oz employs 500-1000 hr guys with no night or IFR experience, let alone multi-engine turbine time? For many entering the "big time", the off-shore operators provide the best intial and perhaps long term prospects.

Ultimately, it is an individual choice which depends v much on your circumstances and priorities. However, I don't think there is a case that there are plenty of jobs out there that pay like the off-shore sector but involve staying at home. If there were, we'd all be after them.

Just my thoughts...

P68:O

[tribal]

Papa 68,
You raise some good points, but I dont understand the , "only 5 months away " bit. Normally tourers are not on 6on 6 off ,or 4 on 4 off, as such. Its 42/42 days or 28/28 days, on site and any travel incurred to and from work is taken in your leave time. This equates to being away from home a little over 6 months a year.
Is it true that in Australia a company will give you leave in addition to this ??!!
Cheers.

[GreenerGrass]

Tribal,

Yes to your question. In Australia if you tour you also receive an extra 4 weeks annual leave(soon to be 6 for CHC). The field leave associated with each tour is only to compensate you for time away from home. Fixed base guys get to be home every night/day. All pilots should be entitled to industry standard annual leave. If fixed base pilots receive 6 weeks per year then tourers should receive the same.

And you're right it's not really equal time away or home anyway as the actual roster is 15 on/ 13 off.

GG

[High Nr]

Think you will find that Bristow and Jayrow have always been six weels of leave...!

[papa68]

To explain the whole touring cyle thing in Oz.

tribal - the touring cycles you speak of really relate to intenational touring cycles as I know it. Most have gone to 'equal' time in either 4, 6 or 8 week blocks of on / off time. I say 'equal' as travel is conducted in your own time. I did actually mention the extra 4 to 6 weeks of annual leave in my post so I'm not sure how you couldn't deduce that equates to approx 5 months at work?!??

However, to explain more fully, GG is quite correct in saying that in Oz you get additional leave. The reasons for this, I wasn't fully aware of to be honest but it makes sense I guess. And GG is quite correct in saying that in Oz it is strictly a 15 on / 13 off touring cycle. One could do the maths to figure out the exact time spent at home but I for one can't be bothered. For the train spotters out there, you would do 12 touring cycles a year if you take your 4 weeks of leave, less (obviously) if you get 6 weeks off.

High Nr - close but no cigar old chap. Neither BHA or CHC Oz have ever had 6 weeks of additoinal leave, just the 4. CHC have some wierd wording in their EBA that suggests that they have had 6 weeks but the fine print says it includes 2 weeks of field leave. The net result was 4 weeks. This I believe has recently been changed to 6 weeks of actual annual leave.

Gets complicated doesn't it?

P68:O

[tribal]

Papa 68,
How I came to the 5 month figure, is from your earlier quote as such:


3. Most off-shore positions (if not all) have 4 weeks of leave (CHC has reportedly moved to 6 weeks). This means you should only be away for 5 months of the year.

Cheers Tribal

[High Nr]

I guess if BHA are still stooging around the edges with this 42 day thingo, then I guess it’s a little local mob, Jayrow that has lead the way again with 6 weeks as standard.

And by the way, the EBA you maybe be referring to is still not “Out There”.

[helifixer]

From what I hear, the bigger issue with Bristow is the amount of engineers they have lost. Aparently there Licenced engineer numbers are at an all time low. I guess we will see Bristow lose more contracts.

[movin' up]

Looks like CHC will keep on scooping up the Bristow leavers. When you have a company that proactively enhances salaries to retain staff versus a company that seeks to alienate its staff at every turn, there will be only one winner.

Is Bristow losing its position as the most respected offshore provider? :rolleyes:

:mad:

[chopperdust]

they are not being scooped up by CHC. It is well known that their pay is still very ordinary for engineers, even after the last pay rise.

[papa68]

Chopperdust,

From my information, certainly one engineer has been scooped up v recently by CHC.

Anyway, I thought we were talking about pilots.

P68:O

[chopperdust]

My apologies Papa68, we were talking about pilots, however, Helifixer has highlighted an important issue, if you do not have the correct engineering backing and you lose contracts, pilots may have to be laid off. Naturally most of them will get picked up by the competitors. It sounds like things are really turning to sh_t at Bristow, i'm glad i'm not a pilot there.

[Flapping to Equity]

From a good pilot source from within Bristow:
Things are indeed not good. The GM has said that they will not pay anymore money because they have such a good retension rate, nobody is leaving. I was told this one was taken very well by the pilots....not!
Ultimately, it has promted several mid-level captains to start active negotiations with other Companies. That I know of (in addition to those which have left in recent months);
1 is negotiating with another offshore operator in OZ,
1 is talking with a Middle Eastern operation,
1 is talking to a SAR/EMS operator.
1 is in talks/negotiations with a State agency.
It can probably be said that a combination of better deals elsewhere, domicile now being addressed with the competition & BHA not willing to negotiate because nobody is leaving (yet) will no doubt lead to a reduction in capability at BHA through competent, qualified, & valuable personel leaving if things don't change.:ugh:
Hey, just what I have heard......

[AusWhirlyBusDriver]

Flapping to Equity

Yeah, you are pretty much on the mark. As my old mate 'Charles Darwin' used to say;
"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the most responsive to change."


I'll let you fill in the blanks.:)

[Tractor_Driver]

Pepi72

presumably your memory extends to the time when there were significant numbers of Aussie pilots working on the North Sea, taking home significantly more than the locals. I had no problem with that then, and have no problem with it now but perhaps we could just tone down the rhetoric a notch?

TD

[nbl]

I agree -nobody complained when oz pilots came over to Aberdeen- we welcomed them and had a beer- if the grass is greener somewhere else bugger off there and stop winging!!!

[nbl]

PEPI72 I forgot - you have a long memory -ooooh we are all quaking in our boots!!!!!!!!!!!

[tribal]

PEPI 72,

You are reacting like a spoilt child, not a rational thinker.

It would be nice if we could all have fair conditions and management, but this is the real world. Pilots will not stick together on issues, and management of most companies will take advantage of that.

Part of the reason pilots will not band together is due to indivduals among the ranks who have too much to say, but want others to fire bullets up front.
It is all too often an individual is placed in a position of stating a case, rationally and fairly, on behalf of his surrounding peers, only to have those same yellow bellies leave the poor sod to face the music on his own, when confronted with management.
To you pilots at BHA - you need to agree on some action or plan together, approach management with the plan together, pointing out benefit on both sides.( not just to your benefit). Stay clear, consise, valid,appropriate, and calm. But above all stay together and be counted. If this cannot be achieved, there is no point reducing yourselves to tears and venting in this forum.
If you want change, put your heads together, and I mean together, and state your concerns properly and without emotion. You need to be prepared to stay in for the long haul, and learn to ignore the threats ( If any). You will also need to politely ask that individuals among your lot who are emotional , such as Pepi, be restrained. Put on the dog muzzle, so to speak.
Good luck all.

Cheers
Tribal

[heliduck]

Tribal - Well said. Hopefully your advice will be heeded.

Pepi72 - Having been in charge of very large maintenance workshops in the mining industry when awards were replaced with EBA's, I have some experience with the emotion involved in industrial relations. I'll probably rave on a bit here but the use of the word "Scab" riles me up. Please listen to me when I say that referring to people as "Scabs" is counterproductive & will result in people who may support you in private being unprepared to support you in public. Australians are generally reluctant & embarrassed to be seen as radicals, & the term you use so freely is considered by many to be derogatory, defamatory as well as inflammatory. I personally have consoled a person who's house, car & boat were burnt to the ground due to the escalation of emotions caused by someone being called a scab.
I suspect that you won't really care, but I was embarrassed to be an Australian after reading your comments, & you might want to take on board some of the comments from the UK posters.
I am an Aussie pilot who has done the floor sweeping like a lot of others on my way up & had considered throwing my hat in the ring for offshore work here at home. In one post you have convinced me that I should continue working overseas, as the people are very welcoming of Aussie pilots where I work. Throw a few more rants out there & soon you will be the lowest paid & only native on your crew, not to mention more than a little lonely.

[papa68]

All,

There has been much talk of the current EBA situation in regards to esp. Bristow's and now CHC. Most of the talk has been rather negative in relation to BHA and somewhat more positive on the CHC side in relation to pay and conditions (domicile in particular).

I'm of the general opinion that no company is either perfect or indeed all bad. Sure, one may have benefits over the other in certain areas and it may depend on an individual's situation as to which organisation is a better fit.

In an effort to "even up the ledger", can anyone with particular insight into CHC (Oz only) give us the downside of that organisation. Clearly, domicile and pay are not issues (in comparison to the competition generally) but surely there are other issues that continually annoy the pilot group.

Any insight guys?

P68:O

[Bogan Boy]

Hey P68,

From the inside CHC is pretty good. You don't see many of us on here posting as we don't have a hell of a lot to complain about. Must be the fact our management engages us on issues.
It doesn't sound like your mangement want to listen or at least hear your side of the negotiation.
And while we're comparing all the offshore companies, at least we both have a current EBA/CAthat all can access. I've tried searching the wagenet website but can't seem to find an EBA/CA for Jayrow(the other offshore operator here in Australia who seem to be expanding into bigger and better things). Do they have one or not. They may even be better than the rest of us, but who knows?!?
So out of the three companies sounds like I'm with the right one at the present time. But it's all swings and roundabouts, and things do change. At least(at the moment) our company is being a bit proactive about shoring up its workforce. Although a bit reactive on the engineer side of things.

[Flapping to Equity]

My old Gandpa always used to say, don't be caught talking about things you know nothing about....but there is on thing I can comment on;
There is something about those CHC pilots.....there a bit funny lookin.:p

[floatsarmed]

Word on the grapevine is that the Bristow blokes have had enough of their EBA and they are about to start taking industrial action within the next couple of weeks or so!! Serious stuff. Any details?

[agent 99]

Heard that tuesday there was an application to the comission to start industrial action and the company still hasn't tried anymore negotiations.

[GreenerGrass]

It's good to see the guys there are trying to change things rather than just moving on, which they could quite easily do as there is plenty of work around.
If the company doesn't want to negotiate in this market they do so at their own peril!

GG

[gulliBell]

Who would be representing the application?? I can't imagine for a second that the AFAP would ever get involved again in invoking industrial action.

[bladebanger]

Gullibell, why would you think that AFAP would not represent the pilots at Bristow?
They would be all members of AFAP I would just about bet on.
Interesting times it seems for the boys in the west.

Banger

[gulliBell]

I don't doubt that the AFAP would represent the best interests of it's members. What I said (opinion only) is that this would probably not extend to supporting industrial action. I don't know of any instance where the AFAP has supported an industrial action in the intervening years since the pilot's strike of the 80's. There might be cases, I just don't know of any. I watch with interest to see what happens with the Bristow pilot group.

[blade root]

gullibell,

I think you might find that AFAP have had an testosterone injection in the last few years.

I just hope that if the Bristow boys do commence industrial action, that other companies and pilots don't become "scabs".

I think the CHC and Jayrow bretheren should consider long and hard before picking up the slack which may be created by the Bristow action.

Good luck to all involved, watching with great interest.

[GreenerGrass]

Blade Root,

Agree whole heartedly. Even though the respective managements of CHC & Jayrow may see this as an opportunity to make some extra cash we should not oblige. As long as we can do this legally.
If the pilots at Bristow succeed in their endeavours it will benefit us all, particularly with other EBA negotiations in play.

GG

[ApocalypseThen]

CHC cannot find enough personnel to properly man its present contracts
let alone `scab` on Bristow . Jayrow is also at full stretch .Imported strikebreakers from the Bristows overseas bases could be a danger-cf the Ansett strike in 1989.

[PlankBlender]

Hi guys n gals, quick question from a newbie watching the developments in the industry with keen interest:

Would the established players look at a CPL(H)/(A) with less than 500 hours, lots of those hours driving planks, plus MECIR(A)/NVFR(A)? Obviously for an entry level position :}

Just trying to suss out whether the situation may develop to a point this year where there may be an alternative to doing a few hundred hours of joy flights?!

Thanks for your guidance!:D

[Loose Mast Nut]

At the risk of alienating the lower more general sections of our industry, then so be it.

The bottom line is that the main players that drive the Industry [Jayrow, CHC and BH] are disjointed, Wow is that a Revelation!

You can piss in each others pockets over a few dollars here and there and generally reduce the overall increase to a pissant value.

Or you can get that useless AFAP [remember the same crowd that screwed QANTAS/ TAA and Ansett back in the 80’s, until they saw the light and screwed the AFAP] and push them into the real world, or get rid of them.

I can’t see any difference between driving a 92 out of Darwin, a 332 out of Broome or a 76 out of Tooradin than pushing a 747 to Singapore with all the worldly assistance and ATC guidance expected and given, particularly with triple Flight Directors and above the crappy weather that we sit in all day long.

And you know what?, the Oil Companies make more profit than does QANTAS and Virgin added together. Together with a barrel or Oil at near US$90 / barrel guess what?

We are being screwed. But not by our Management, but by the Oil Companies.

Why don’t you guys get together [want each others phone numbers? Give me a PM], and make some real difference.

Don’t expect your Management to buckle under the pressure of the EBA’s or other arrangements, as they have contracted at a rate they thought was OK at contract time, they have only a few $$ here or there to line their and your pockets with.

Get together and aim your focus where the money is, the Multi National Oil Company’s.

Let me do a quick calculation for you:

Between the big three, there are about 200 guys earning about A$130K each, now double that salary to equal that of a wide body pilot, you have an increase of around $26 million.

Think that will kill the Oil Companies?....hell no, a fully laden Ore Carrier is worth around $5M, [and they move over 40 / day] a LNG carrier around $18M [and they move three/day] or Oil Carriers at $11M, [and they move 12+/day], plus Gas, Salt and Condensate, so get real guys and get organised.

The only guys that can lead the rest are the top end folk., and if you aren’t aiming at the same as a 747 guy for doing the same task with less sophistication, then your all deserve each other.

Get Organised, Get rid of the AFAP [or control them], Aim at the Oil Companies, and your financial security will follow.

Continue to be divided, and I will repeat this message in 2010, just like many have said before.

Now what is your excuse?

[gulliBell]

I don't quite get the connexion between driving a 400 tonne Boeing worth $100,000,000 with 400 passengers onboard, and driving a 5 tonne helicopter worth $5,000,000 with 10 passengers onboard, and expecting the same salary in both cases for doing so.

I reckon $130,000 is quite a good salary for case 2 above, particularly considering in most instances you're at work for less than 6 months of the year. But if they want to try squeeze some more via the oil producers then go for it. The oil companies are certainly cashed up e.g. the Saudi's are probably producing close to 10 million bbl/day at less than $2/bbl average, add the current price/bbl into the equation and that's a lot of money.

I reckon it's a shame that our ore gets dug out of the ground and sent overseas at a $1/tonne (or whatever it is), and coming back here as steel at $1,000/tonne (or whatever it is). And our liquified gas goes overseas at a fraction of a cent/litre (or whatever it is), and I've got to pay $30 to fill up my BBQ gas bottle. I don't know what the ore train drivers or the haul truck drivers or anyone else that's critical to these operations gets paid, or whether they feel they're not getting their fair share of the huge profits being made by the mining industry at the moment.

One thing is for sure, the oil companies and operators will have a plan B that will very quickly overcome any problem brought about by aircraft remaining on the ground due to industrial action. Remember the pilot's strike of the 80's, they all got screwed. Remember the Cathay Pacific pilots, they all got screwed. And the oil companies have much deeper pockets than any airline.

There's a well known saying that's apt, fail to learn from history and you're bound to repeat it. Let's hope cool heads prevail and the guys can secure an outcome that is to their favor. Much better that than risk winding up not having an income.

[GreenerGrass]

gullibell,

Mate I think you're giving the oil companies a little too much credit. From my experience the only thing that drives them when it comes to aviation is how much will it cost. If it costs more to have a back up plan then don't worry about it. Their back up plan for all logistic matters is to spend a whole lot more down the track when eventual problems arise. Plus I'm sure Bristow will be trying to ensure they know nothing about possible trouble in the ranks of the pilots. Don't want the client to think there's a problem.

[gulliBell]

The oil companies will have a very good idea that trouble is brewing. Their aviation advisors watch this forum so whatever is said here they will be taking notes. Their poker faces will be saying problem bilong contractor, but behind the scenes a plan B will have been formulated. I have no idea whether Bristow will have briefed them on the situation, it would be in their interest too.

The oil companies might only be interested in the bottom line when it comes to contracted aviation, but they are savvy enough to realize that helicopters not flying costs them a hell of a lot more than helicopters flying. When reacting to an industrial situation, their response will be to pump the aviation budget down the sludge pipe and throw the resources of their very deep pockets at plan B.

None of this extra money will end up in the pockets of those who decide to tools down. I hope they get their 747 pilot salary or whatever it is they seek, but I suspect they won't be getting a dime more than they get now if they do decide to take action. But someone else will, because collective solidarity amongst pilots has always been weak and the offer of strike breaking money will see enough crossing the line to keep the helicopters flying.

It will be very interesting to see how things pan out.

[agent 99]

What pilots?
Who,s machines?
Don't look that easy to have a plan B.

[clear to land]

And back to the top to see if there are any developments

[bladebanger]

Just in from the West. The Bristow boys have got the 30% pay increase they were after.
Well done guys. Just hope all other operators take notice.
Hats off to the Bristow Pilot Committee.
Oil is at $104US a barrell.

Banger.................

[papa68]

Guys,

A lot has been written recently about BHA's pilots and their push to increase salaries and improve their conditions significantly - a lot of it (as usual) has been rubbish and / or pure conjecture.

The Pilot Committee, and more importantly the Pilot Body, from the start had a very strong case to push and a realistic agenda was set. The arguments for were compelling and undeniable. Most importantly, the pilots DID (and continue to) stick together. The pilots that make up the present BHA contingent are a completely different lot than the one's that voted on the 2004 EBA.

It does indeed appear that a deal has at last been brokered. Despite the case put forward, it did take a lot of work from a number of individuals, particularly our PC Chairman. His work on this cannot be underestimated and in a very significant way, may have improved the lot for a number of helicopter pilots in the immediate future, not just at Bristows. If you fly off-shore in Oz, you want to find out who this guy is and shake his hand.

The 30% has largely been achieved (effective from Sep 08) and a number of other intiatives have also been made including an increase to the middle bracket of DTAs for all CAPTs and SFOs. This is a major achievement. Under the proposed arrangements, a year 8 CAPT will be on approx $155,000 when all DTAs are grossed up. Whilst it's not the same as a Qantas 747 CAPT, anyone who thinks they're even remotely similar clearly needs their head checked.

Perhaps far more importantly, it sets an agenda for future EBAs. The future potentially looks v good for helo drivers, particularly in the off-shore sector. However, the lessons to come out of BHAs 2008 EBA negotiations should be heeded by all. The money is there, the demand is there but the supply is not. Provided a strong case is put forward and the guys support their respective committees and stick together, a good result can be obtained.

All that is required now is for the BHA EBA draft to be finalised, disseminated and then voted on. With the PC's endorsement, it would appear the deal is all but sewn up.

Well done to all involved.

P68:O

[pohm1]

Well done indeed.

P1

[agent 99]

Great news!
Take note pilots what can happen if you grow a backbone and stick together. This is a start and can benefit the whole industry.
Over to you CHC!

[ivan]

When are CHC due to close on their EBA anyone?

[bladebanger]

Ivan, I hope you don't work for them. It's already signed off. Done deal.


Banger

[Tibbsy]

Well done!:D

What was the outcome for domicile?

[agent 99]

Domicile is still the same.

[Tibbsy]

Domicile is still the same.

Well the Perth house prices should suck up most of that pay rise then...

[Impress to inflate]

I hope someone has dished up a big slice of humble pie to gullibell. The oil companies don't have a plan B as there are only two operators working, both need crews. The oil companies have tried using ships to transport oilies to rigs before but they hate it. I have been in this situation before, the extra cost to the oil companies is a fraction of a %. There budget for flying there execs around the world first class would equal the cost of offshore heli ops.

Well done Bristows, a pat on the back from me. !!

[Yikes]

Ivan, I hope you don't work for them. It's already signed off. Done deal.


Not even close

[Tibbsy]

Domicile needs to move to the top of the pilots and engineers agenda now.

Aren't the domicile requirements already different for engineers? That was the info presented at the Bristow 'around Australia tour' last year. The 'off the record' opinion of one of the Bristow staff was that domicile for pilots would have to change in order to address the recruiting problems.

[TheHoff]

What's the situation at Bristows for engineers? Are they having problems with a shortage of engineers like everyone else? I noticed Helitech had some of there Heli in there hanger. Are they now doing there heavy maintenance? Would someone be able to provide a contact name and number regarding the possibility of employment in Oz.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[gulliBell]

Humble pie?? Out of the question! If you read my previous posts again I've always been 100% behind the pilot body in their desire for a better outcome. They didn't get what some suggest they should, i.e. B747 Captain salary, but they did get a more realistic outcome. Doesn't mean the oil companies didn't have a plan B, it didn't need to go that far because an agreement was reached. So well done to the pilot reps who brokered the deal.

Can anyone divulge what is the proposed new rate for twin IFR Captain year 1??

[GreenerGrass]

GulliBell,

I'm sure it won't become public knowledge until the pilot body vote it in.(that's if they even vote 'yes'!)

[GreenerGrass]

Does anyone know how the vote went or if the results are in?

[pohm1]

The result is in, the offer has been accepted.

P1:ok:

[GreenerGrass]

All eyes will now turn to CHC. I believe they are yet to vote on a proposed agreement.

[maudlin]

Any truth to the rumour that Bristows will tour pilots from the East coast to the West in their new EBA? Heard something about it late last year (2007) but haven't heard anything since.

[pohm1]

No, unless you are a PIC or Training Captain.

[movin' up]

http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/helicopter-commanders-australia-perth-10504454.htm#viewcontact

Looks like more blow-ins for Bristow. How happy will the incumbents be to see more slots on the new machinery going to contractors? Not very if the current info on levels of satisfaction amoungst the Training Department is to be believed.

[spinwing]

movin' up.....

Mmmmmmm .....

Interesting ..... but are you sure this is for Bristow ... I was told Bristow was not going to operate the 139 ... and don't have any .....

CHC however do ...... ?????? and trying to find pilots already rated on them might prove problematic........

:E

[movin' up]

1. Perth based.

2. 139's from next year.

3. A "Fixed Term Contracter" has already been sent on the 139 Training Captains Course.

4. "Fixed term contracts" is a term Bristow have been using lately.

5. Under the 'view contact details' is Helen Zahra, who organised the Bristow Recruiting Roadshow recently.

Other than these factors, no I'm not sure.............:ok:

[spinwing]

Mmmmmmm .....

Curiouser and curiouser ?????

I suppose they are now taking the 4 machines they were not going to take ?

:ooh:

Thanks for the info ....

[papa68]

All,

Word is out that HA has just won the Pluto contract with Woodside. V interesting times ahead on the NW Shelf indeed.

The ramifications of this news has already had an impact on business at a more established NW Shelf operator with a complete reversal of their problematic 'Domicile Policy'.

IOT attract the required numbers of suitable aircrew, HA will obviously have to provide competitive / attractive conditions for prospective candidates. As part of such a package, 2 on / off touring from any capital city in Australia will almost certainly be required.

As such, BHA has responded (with effect from 1 June 08) and agreed to allow all Capts and selected SFOs and FOs to tour from locations other than Perth at company cost. What's more, if you satisy certain criteria (I believe 250 hrs ME command, IR and a few other bits and pieces) then you may not have to re-locate to Perth at own cost to join.

This will have MAJOR ramifications throughout the off-shore and military sectors of the helo industry, possibly into the EMS side of things too. This was without a doubt the final hurdle that was required IOT attract people to the current off-shore market leaders in Australia.

Apart from preventing a flurry of activity towards HA from BHA (despite the attractive rumoured conditions being proposed), Jayrow and arguably the Army / Navy will be uncompetitive. The chaps at Jayrow must be licking their lips right now with EBA talks stalling. The final piece of the BHA puzzle has been fixed and one would imagine secure their current pilot recruitment / retention issues as they continue to expand.

Market forces in play guys - it's a good time to be a helicopter pilot indeed...

P68:O

[agent 99]

Doesn't apply to FO's or SFO's without 250hrs multi engine time. They are still required to live in Perth, so I don't think its quite the final Hurdle yet. Not quite up their with CHC who allow all their pilots to travel from interstate.

[pohm1]

CHC have the Darwin allowance, how much will BHA pay as a Perth allowance to those of us that continue to "show our commitment" by living on the West coast?:ok:

[DoinTime]

I heard a rumor, that Bristow are bringing in people from Bristow Academy in Florida on a two year visa to be FO's. Is there any truth to the rumor???

[GS Pilot]

P68

sent you a PM

[papa68]

agent99 & pohm1,

Your points are noted and of course have relevance. I would agree that the DP as it now stands is not perfect but then if it was, we would have nothing to whinge about and thus would cease to be pilots (as I understand them to be :rolleyes:).

Again, market forces are in play even as we speak and I am quite sure that should those forces continue to play out as they currently are, then the DP will be revised further. How long ago was it when BHA pilots were required to live on site? We've come along way so let's not just focus on the negatives. Conditions for ALL helo pilots are on the improve.

a99 - you are correct but in terms of progression, I would suggest BHA has better opportunities currently and also better prospects perhaps with regard to future improvements in conditions. CHC has one major drawback in all of this EBA stuff - their EBA includes their EMS guys. The PC at BHA is determined not to make that mistake. Ultimately, the market will make its choice. Should BHA have trouble picking up suitable FOs as things stand now then CHC should benefit. I suspect that BHA will actually recruit slightly more experienced pilots (who were unwilling to move under the old DP) who can be "fast tracked" to command. The rest will have to do the hard yards just like everyone else. If you have less than 250 ME command or are not endorsed on type etc, you are hardly the most sought after pilot in town and so conditions will tend to reflect that fact - sorry if I have offended anyone as that is not my intent here.

p1 - the Domicile Policy allows its pilots to move to where ever they like once certain conditions have been satisfied. Therefore, the argument in regard to loyalty is invalid because those that move IAW that policy have not been disloyal. If you choose to stay on in Perth when you could in fact move on, that is a personal choice which wouldn't warrant a "loyalty bonus" IMHO. CHC has this incentive based pay because it is trying to encourage its pilots to move to Darwin when they don't have to under their arrangements. This does not apply to BHA yet as it is a requirement to move if you don't meet certain criteria. Perhaps in the future, BHA may move to this model to try and keep people in Perth but then their operations now include Melbourne, Wynyard (short term), Honiara and Truscott.

Perhaps their cunning plan is to have bases everywhere and not just WA thus negating the whole Perth basing issue altogether.

Bags the PIC position in Sydney!

P68:O

[pohm1]

"Tish and Pish" to your common sense and reason my friend. :p Who'd want to live on the east coast anyway :=

[GreenerGrass]

Good to see BHA repsonding to market forces. They're finally waking up to the fact that you can't just go and shake the pilot tree any more. Pity the other two current Australian offshore operators haven't done the same. CHC pilots still waiting to hear from management after the NO vote and Jayrow with their first crack at an EBA going nowhere because management think a fair offer is a CPI increase Nov 09!!
A smart GM/MD would be looking to secure their current workforce in these times of expansion one would think, particularly with a new operator entering the scene. Only one is doing that. The other two may find themselves unable to man new contracts they might win, or even cancelling flights on their current contracts. I'd rather have a secure, happy workforce than be faced with possibility of industrial action.
Bristow is now that much more attractive to those of us that live on the east coast.
Does anyone know what HA will be offering?

[pepi72]

Quote from P68:
"I suspect that BHA will actually recruit slightly more experienced pilots (who were unwilling to move under the old DP) who can be "fast tracked" to command. The rest will have to do the hard yards just like everyone else. If you have less than 250 ME command or are not endorsed on type etc, you are hardly the most sought after pilot in town and so conditions will tend to reflect that fact - sorry if I have offended anyone as that is not my intent here."


Showing your colours here.

Lets face it, BHA management had the power to sort out a problem that needed sorting to keep them competitive. What they've done instead is change the policy so that about 6 Captains who live over east, who have done very little to bring this issue to a head, get their airfares paid. What they've got left is about 30 FO&SFO's who will be pissed off by the latest installment of Bristow's short sighted management approach. It's also enabled them to start hiring a heap of Military pilots without forcing them to move to Perth, but are there that many of them out there?

P68 doesn't reckon that an FO with 500 or 1000 hrs is worth much. Last i looked mate you need one of them sitting up the front with you or your not going anywhere.

The 30 odd FO and SFO's are BHA's future captains etc. If you want to hang onto them you better not treat them like second class people or they might decide to go and work for CHC or HA or any other operator chasing multi-engine IFR pilots!!

FO's are amongst the lowest paid people working for BHA, expected to move to one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in. In addition those with families have to bring them over and isolate them from people who can support them whilst their partners are off at work for 2 weeks. Why would you work for BHA long term if this is how they treat you from the start. This management might work when there's no work out there but not now....If a BHA FO leaves and goes to CHC after 6 months or so because he's had enough of being isolated in Perth then he actually gets a number of credit's plus gets to live where he wants and gets paid an ATPL allowance if he is appropriately licensed. Got you thinking. I reckon there are more than 30 people just waiting to see what CHC pilots get with their EBA and if they do there usual and leapfrog BHA then you might get a few CV's heading to Adelaide pretty quick smart.

Pepi

[pepi72]

Quoted from new DP - "It is our understanding that a direct competitor will be operating in the NWS area with the majority of it's employee's operating on a touring basis. It is our further understanding that these pilots may have their airfares paid from eastern states locations. This has prompted a review of our domicile policy to ensure that the conditions on offer to BHA pilots remain competitive."

So BHA didn't change their policy because it was bad policy and they wanted to look after and attract high quality staff. Nope only when they thought a few east coast captains might be poached.

What is BHA going to do for the 60% of pilots who live in Perth that might find flying for HA on $140K plus attractive. I suppose we are expendable and not worth keeping.....

We better all move over east, so we too, can show how much more valuable we are to the company...

[floatsarmed]

The new HA pluto field contract whilst not good for BHA's commercial department will have a positive flow on effect for all as it stirs the pot a bit. This stirring has already translated to positive changes for the pilots such as the new BHA DP. The new version of the BHA DP seems to be a good change overall for their pilots but it will never keep everyone happy.

BHA may still loose some of their FO's to the likes of HA unless the DP includes all those already in Perth and waiting out their four years until they are allowed to move. BHA need to have some mechanism to retain new guys who they have spent a considerable amount of cash on putting them through a long training process. Making people move to Perth has worked for them up until recently as there was little alternative if you wanted to get into offshore in Oz but now the options are more varied and the move to Perth line may not work for them anymore?

To play the devils advocate with the BHA guys in Perth that do not qualify for free flights in the latest changes to the policy then you have a few options; apply to HA or go overseas, move back East against the policy or stay put and stick to the deal that you made when you agreed to join BHA in the first place?

Its a pilots marketplace now more than ever IF you have the experience to be able to move on/sideways. Most sub 4 year FO's don't possess that level of experience and to move on just because you don't get a free plane ticket would be a big call?

Pepi 72, mate, unfortunately experience gained externally to the offshore, medium/heavy twin market does not translate equally. Meaning that many of us have gained thousands and thousands of hours doing demanding Vfr jobs only to have to start at the bottom of the heap when transitionong to the offshore world. It may not be fair but that's the way it is. There is a ladder and it must be climbed one rung at a time, fact.

[papa68]

Pepi72,

Mate - clearly you did not read my post with any intent but to take offence. I quote, "sorry if I have offended anyone as that is not my intent here." I could not have been clearer but if you choose to ignore my carefully chosen words...

This is a shame as my post was intended to applaud yet another improvement in conditions whilst I acknowledge that the new DP is not perfect. Instead, a series of rants from a disgruntled employee has been the outcome.

Of course this new arrangement will not suit all with immediate effect but then things rarely do. It will though be open to all eventually provided they progress through the system satisfactorily. However, I think I owe it to myself, and perhaps our other contributors, to bring some balance to the whole discussion.

Firstly - I don't know how my being ex-mil (or not for that matter) has anything to do with this. My true colours? What exactly are you implying?

May I suggest that you and all our other readers out there have a quick look through my posts and tell me if I don't try and present a fair and balanced view on most things aviation related. I would then ask all to have a look at yours. The proof is in the pudding - I don't get personal and I try not to rant.

Secondly, your accusation that this will benefit 6 Capts who have done nothing to further the cause is just plain wrong. In fact, much has been done to try and resolve this in the past (and I have personally been involved) and the bottom line is this - pilots DON'T tell the company how to do business or set policy. We may enter into dialogue IOT try and have certain matters resolved to the benefit of the pilot body, but in the case of domicile, right or wrong, BHA has (and continues to have) the right to decide such matters. Hey, I don't like the uniforms right now but management has decided that we are to wear what's been provided.

If you don't like enough, you also reserve the right to either a) not join in the first place, or b) resign. I would suggest a better idea might be to continue as you are, obtainig your command and then enjoy the benefits of this new arrangement, which, reagrdless of what you might think, is still an overall improvement in the conditions of employment at BHA.

Your point about people not putting in the hard yards to better themselves is in itself a very interesting one. Are you on the BHA Pilot Committee? Did you do anything to further the cause of the BHA pilots recently during the EBA discussions? In answer to both, I am and I did.

Further, the BHA Pilot Committee is now looking for 3 new members. I look forward to hearing from you because I know that you are passionate about issues that affect BHA pilots and as such, you would like to contribute in a more effective way than perhaps you are currently.

With regards to the potential employ of mil types, I am ambivalent in this area. Whilst there are ABSOLUTELY guys out there who would qualify in terms of experience etc, whether they will want to, or will be deemed suitable by BHA management is another issue which I doubt anyone is able to forsee. Also, I don't necessarily think that getting a bunch of these guys is good thing if they do want to head over but as I don't make these decisions, it matters little what I think.

Re your comment about HA's requirement for FOs for their 139s. You are correct. If their conditions are better than BHA's then you'd be a fool not to go. Having worked on getting you, arguably, the best conditions in town, I doubt that will be the case but time will tell. Again, supply and demand.

Re your assertion that I don't value co-pilots with x amount of time. You have just made that up my friend. Nothing could be further from the truth. Show me where in my last post I stated that and I'll buy you a beer. I stated a fact that relates to supply and demand, that is, if you don't have certain qulaifications, endorsements or experience, you will not be as highly sought after and therefore renumerated. Exactly what is wrong with my logic? Oh, and by the way, a Capt can actually fly with another Capt but now I'm just being a bit cheeky;).

BHA co-pilots are not treated like 2nd class citizens but I'd agree they don't get everything a Capt gets. Should a co-pilot be renumerated exactly the same? If that were the case, why become a Capt and enjoy the benefits that come with that? It works like this... FOs enjoy some benefits, SFOs more and Capts yet more. I'd concentrate on getting my command at BHA, that should take about 4 or 5 years (maybe less if you have met certain criteria). It'll be a lot slower moving over and starting again.

You're right in that life sometimes sucks. Moving to Perth etc etc is an absolute pain - I know because I had to do it. I didn't like it then and I still don't like it. But as you say, the option to move to CHC with all the benefits you expouse exists. So what are you waiting for? Or is the deal at BHA, whilst not perfect, good enough to keep you at BHA? Market forces...

P68:O

[pohm1]

Moving to Perth etc etc is an absolute pain

West is Best, everyone knows that!

[floatsarmed]

POHM, you are in desperate need of therapy and/or medication, urgently. :ok:

[papa68]

floatsarmed,

For sure he's not well but leave him be... he's a mate and no matter how delusional p1 is, mates are mates ;). At least he's friendly...

P68:O

[Rocker]

Anyone have a link to the current Bristow Australia pay scale? I have searched for threads without success.

Many Thanks,

Rocker

[Tibbsy]

Bristow Australia are recruiting again evidently.

Bristow is one of the world’s largest providers of helicopter services for the offshore oil and gas industry, supplying helicopter transportation, aviation support, maintenance and search and rescue worldwide.



With more than 550 aircraft operational in 22 countries, we have the largest offshore fleet of modern medium and heavy helicopters, with a fleet of 30 helicopters based in Australia.



Bristow Helicopters Australia has operational bases within Western Australia, Victoria, and the Northern Territory servicing the expansion of the Australian offshore oil and gas industry. We are currently seeking experienced Pilots who want to develop their careers within the Bristow Group.



Pilots

Successful candidates will have a minimum of 500 hours and have completed the IREX. An ATPL is desirable but not essential.


Ideally candidates will be endorsed on one or more of the following aircraft:

AS332
EC225
AW139
S76
The positions attract a touring and non touring work cycle. Touring cycles are 15 days on and 13 off. On site positions are available at our Tooradin base in Victoria.

If you wish to work for a successful helicopter company committed to its employees and focused on service delivery for our customers, then we would like to hear from you.



Initial enquiries can be made to the Human Resources Department on (08) 9478 3388. We encourage you to register your interest by sending through your details to the Human Resources Team at:

Email [email protected]

Applications close 5pm Friday 5 February 2010

It's been a little quiet on here lately for information on pay, conditions etc. Anyone got any current information about a) what the company is up to this year and b) current benefits, terms and conditions?

:ok:

[chopper reid]

If interested why not contact Bristows in Perth & get it straight from the source.

[Tibbsy]

If interested why not contact Bristows in Perth & get it straight from the source.

Jeez, that's a good idea... I knew someone would say that.:(

I did, they couldn't say much other than they had no details to give out at the moment and that the information would be provided to shortlisted applicants.

Anyone actually in the know?

[GreenerGrass]

The BHA EBA is all on the AFAP web site if you're a member.

[Tibbsy]

Cheers GG :ok:, but I'm not a member.

Anyone able to assist?

[GreenerGrass]

Then it should be at the Fair Work Australia web site under "Agreements"

[Squeaks]

Bristow Pilot's Agreement 2008 (http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agreements/wpa/CAUN084859101.pdf)

[Tibbsy]

Thanks Squeaks and GG. Much appreciated! :)

[bladebanger]

I have heard that Bristow Australia pilots are going for another 25% increase in salaries.
I remember it was not that long ago that they were going for 30% and we all said they were mad for even trying to get that much and they got it. However i do remember that it was only last year that they laid of a few pilots so it will be interesting to see how they go.

Does anyone know when there current agreement expires?

Banger

[wwingrotor]

I need some help. I want to send CV by an email to Bristow, but i don´t have any contacts. Anyone?
Thanks a lot.

[pohm1]

[email protected]

Scroll down to the Bristow advert

AFAP Latest Job Ads in Australia and Pacific - Australian Federation of Air Pilots (http://www.afap.org.au/html/s02_article/article_view.asp?id=98&nav_cat_id=127&nav_top_id=73)



p1

[floatsarmed]

Bristow Australia posted a 25.5% margin for the third financial quarter!! :eek:

I guess the Pilots claim for another big payrise is justified given that level of profit? :ok:

[movin' up]

If the Bristow guys can get a 30% payrise through last time, then why not do it again?

From what Ive heard, they lead the way as far as salaries go in Oz , and as a result, pay and conditions have improved for others across the industry.

Now where do I apply?

[Tibbsy]

From what Ive heard, they lead the way as far as salaries go in Oz , and as a result, pay and conditions have improved for others across the industry.

I hope the Perth rental market doesn't suck too much out of the favourable salary...

[That lights normal!]

A company paying pilot’s top dollar and turning a good profit. That can’t be right! Can it?:ok:

Imagine how good they’d go if they took a leaf out of a few other Australian operators “song books”::ugh:
They could save some money on accommodation, reduce “away allowances”, etc. Sure some pilots might leave, but it couldn’t cost more than A$100K to get a new pilot endorsed and up to speed and meanwhile they could be saving hundreds of dollars.:confused:


(Tibbsy - Touring positions are available, so choose your favourite rental market:ok: Me, I'll be at the beach, East coast, thanks.:E)

[Bluntendboy]

I have a friend who flies with Bristow Australia and he speaks very highly of the company in general. He said there is excellent and thorough training, very good pay and conditions, and overall a great bunch of guys to tour with...he said you'd go a long way to find a better flying position anywhere else!

On the touring front, he had to move over to Perth from the east coast like many others before him and said Perth is not so bad, though it is a little overpriced in some respects for housing thanks to the mining and oil/gas industry workers generally earning big dollars. To compare, friends of mine operating various bits of machinery in the mines earn similar amounts ($130-160k) to the captains...that is how much the mine/oil/gas guys can earn!!!

Apparently, the only people who will be toured from anywhere will be the contract captains who arrive on the doorstep already trained and ready to go. All others applying for full-time positions will be required to move to Perth to accept a position, unless they have a type endorsement and have either 250 or 500hrs PIC on that type. Someone who works there will have to confirm the exact hour requirements.

[WLM]

And adding that if you're over the age of 50, with all the right qualifications, you will still be turned down by Bristow HR.... been there

[pohm1]

One of the latest coeys went through his super puma endorsement aged 54yrs. (Although he does look much younger :ok:)

P1

[asianrotorhunter]

I see they had a big advertisement for pilots in January. Did they win a new contract/getting new machines? Or is it just their yearly replacements?
Anyone know how many guys (Captains & Coeys) they're looking for?

:ok:

[Flaps Back]

Applications closed for Bristows on 5 Feb. Has anyone heard anything back from HR yet?

[Tibbsy]

Has anyone had any interviews or heard anything about the Bristow positions? :uhoh:

[ersa]

Bristow are in the process of sending out thank-you but no thank-you letters, so if you have not heard anything yet, it may be looking good

[Flaps Back]

Bristow's reply to my application. thanks but no thanks. Had well in excess of the minimum requirements too :sad:

There's another Aussie helicopter site where people are saying that there were well over 150 applications for the Bristow positions. I guess it was to be expected - this was the first off shore advertisement for quite a while.

Congrats to the applicants who were shortlisted.

[spinwing]

Mmmm ....

So if you have not been told ..."No thanks" ....

........ does that mean they are shortlisted .... :confused:

[Tibbsy]

Sounds like a very long short list.

[anondescriptname]

Bristow Australia and it's Pilot Committee are in pay negotiations at the moment. These negotiations are with new GM Allan Blake (ex UK) who seems to have stalled the negotiations.

The current agreement ends on July 1 after which time the pilot body is entitled to start the process for protected industrial action. I believe there is serious consideration as to what protected action will be undertaken at this time.

What effect will this action have on the clients of Bristow Australia?

What effect will this action have on the workforce?
and
Will this action give Bristow competitors the chance to move in on some of the work to fill the gaps?

[poppahymen]

Wow this sounds like it could be made into a action frillier movie of some kind. I will watch this thread with interest.:)

[NRDK]

The Ozzies should be use to dealing with the proverbial "Snake in the Grass". The UK work force suffered under said person. :ugh:
The reason he is there in the job says it all........terms & conditions will be hard fought and eroded away along with morale. Good luck.

[212man]

These negotiations are with new GM Allan Blake (ex UK) who seems to have stalled the negotiations.

You surprise me......

[bladebanger]

212man,
Glad too see your surprised. :>)

I thought Bristow was run by an Aussie now? Ex Managing pilot I thought.
Have Bristow won the Woodside contract?


Banger

[sharpcollector]

It is plain to see why major contributors to the old Nigerian Bristow thread took off from this site. Check out...PHONE WIND...he moved to ... for the real news on Bristow news at..

All this material is s....t dribble on Aussie pilots....since when did the sun start shinnig out of your a.....holes. Fed up...my mistake though for checking Prune for some sensible news...BYE.

Moderator....be sure to remove this as soon as possible...what bulls....t


Bristow news?????????????...what a JOKE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[Senior Pilot]

It is plain to see why major contributors to the old Nigerian Bristow thread took off from this site. Check out...PHONE WIND...he moved to ... for the real news on Bristow news at..

All this material is s....t dribble on Aussie pilots....since when did the sun start shinnig out of your a.....holes. Fed up...my mistake though for checking Prune for some sensible news...BYE.

If you know something different, or believe posts here to be incorrect: why not post sensibly and enlighten us all? PhoneWind and all your other friends are more than welcome to post here, but deriding the site without contributing anything of value smacks of childish schoolyard taunts.

Moderator....be sure to remove this as soon as possible...what bulls....t


Bristow news?????????????...what a JOKE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Remove what? Your post, or some unspecified comment that you disagree with?

[papa68]

BBanger,

BHA was being run by an Aussie until fairly recently.

Rod Pulford, who was the ex Managing Pilot took over as the General Manager when the Australian part of the business was part of SEABU (South East Asia Business Unit).

My understanding is that when the Aussie part of the business became a business unit in its own right it required a Director and the position of General Manager became redundant.

As such, the current Director of BHA is Allan Blake who is indeed from the UK.

Woodside contract yet to be awarded. Sometime in May I believe.

P68:O

[floatsarmed]

Last date I heard for Woodside was 11 May.

Should be very interesting either way.

My money is on Bristow for the lions share.

Although also heard that HNZ bought the half built and then abandoned new Jayrow hangar.

:ok:

[papa68]

I believe that part of the reason for the delay in the current UCA talks is BHA waiting on the result of the Woodside contract.

Not really sure why this would make a difference as regardless of our manning, the pilots remaining would be looking for a decent improvement in conditions.

BHA like any well managed company, will presumably only keep the number of pilots it requires to fulfil its contractual requirements - no more, no less. So the winning or losing of this, or any other contract shouldn't affect the claims of the BHA pilots.

P68:O

[Heliringer]

Does anyone know what the Pay and Conditions are like with Helicopters New Zealand at Karratha?

Thanks for any info

[dodgy1]

They are the same as Bristow. When formulating the EBA, HNZ had to at least match or better the Bristow one or else they would of struggled to get pilots.

Didnt stop them tho trying to pay the NZ guys the same wage as if they were still in NZ:ugh::=

[mybighorse1]

:ok:A little birdie tells me the HNZ NZ guys have begun bargining a collective with NZ ALPA - about time the NZ guys moved towards the rest of the world - good luck guys!:D

[industry insider]

Floats

Not correct on the half built Jayrow hangar in KTA. It has not been bought by HNZ although a buy and lease back deal has apparently been arranged with another party. Jayrow will be using it soon.

[re-ject]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the difference in job prospect and pay,..etc.. between Bristow Australia and Flying for Bristow around the North Sea ??

replies much appreciated,

Cheers,
re-ject

[re-ject]

Another inquiry...

-How does the Touring and Non-Touring work cycles work within Bristow Australia

-Is most of the work based in Karratha?
-Other bases and work cycles

Cheers, re-ject

[Heliringer]

I hear HNZ/HA are ramping up recruitment due to winning a big contract or so the rumour goes. Anyone heard of any contracts being won?

[kwikenz]

Fishing heliringer....?...:ok:

I rather doubt anyone will be ramping up until Woodside is announced sometime soon.

[CYHeli]

Today is the day.
Anyone heard who won the Woodside Contract?

[papa68]

My sources tell me that the Woodside contract has been deferred (surprise surprise) until... well who would know?

Will make the BHA PEA negotiations interesting if nothing else. Given AB's insistence that the Woodside contract be sorted out before the PEA is dealt with seriously, it makes the likelihood of protected IA perhaps just about inevitable given the current agreement ends 1 Jul.

P68:O

[papa68]

All,

Check out Bristow (http://ir.bristowgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=91226&p=irol-IRHome)

It's clear that BHA is performing well. Of interest, apparently BHA is close to an agreement with its pilots over wage increases - at least this is what investors have been led to believe.

Anyone got any info to support / reject this?

P68:O

[bladebanger]

papa68,
It's rejected from what I hear. Looks like BHA management are in for a shock.

Banger

[movin' up]

I hear that Bristows pilots will get the result of the strike ballot today?

Any truth in the rumour that they'll be striking next week?

[readingfive]

Ballot results | Fair Work Australia (http://www.fwa.gov.au/index.cfm?pagename=industrialballotsresult)

[Loose Mast Nut]

Not the best time to be looking down the Industrial Action Barrel boys.

It’s a high probability that Woodside has gone to CHC which means disaster for the last 40+ chaps on the inflexible Seniority Listing.

Unless of course you are in the protected senior boys listing.

[movin' up]

LMN

What does industrial action have to do with pilot retention? The number of pilots required to fulfill contract requirements is a defined figure irrespective of salary or industrial action.

Anyone who believes that accepting a smaller payrise or not taking IA will somehow encourage a company to keep more pilots than is required is deluded!

[kwikenz]

Co Pilot for CHC perhaps LMN?

As for the last 40 odd pilots, I think you might be a bit misinformed as to the size of the current Woodside commitment.

With recent work and ongoing exploratory stuff, along with any other requirements around leave and sim training, I doubt very much that there will be many if any pilots made redundant.

Besides, as already stated, regardless of the pilots pay, people will always be axed if they are surplus to requirements in the long term.

Good luck to all parties in any case. There should be more offshore work to keep everyone busy and well paid for the foreseeable future. Offshore pilots ought really be getting in behind the Bristow guys as they will all see a benefit in the long run.

[gnome]

There are currently 3 a/c :bored: on the
Woodside contract and Bristow have just picked up the Apache contract for 5 a/c.:D So by rights there will acutally have to put Pilots on.
Go for it.:ok:

[movin' up]

Im hearing a whisper that the Aussie Bristow boys got a 19% payrise at the eleventh hour, before the stop work began?

Aren't these the same pilots that got 30% a couple of years ago?

Nice result for them if true.....not so nice for Alan Blake though!

[Bluntendboy]

I have watched this and other wage debates with interest over the years and I think the key word here is context...these figures need to be taken in context to the economic conditions at the time and the industry in which these offshore guys operate. Things are hardly winding down in WA at the moment, are they?!?

Comments regarding pay rates in this area have previously drawn debate from different quarters, so I am not going to try and reinvent another set of fresh debates. Remember recent arguments of cleaners/bed makers/kitchen hands earning more then some pilots? Even after this latest increase, you will still find such employment streams offering higher incomes then flying roles. You will most likely find that these operators are no different to the rest of us in the aviation game and were seeking a competitive pay increase that accounted for the usual CPI and a little on top of that that would ultimately lift the overall package to a level at which it should be at.

In any case, I am sure there would have been trade offs for such a payrise and when you also remember that these negotiated pay rates have come on the end of a low starting base, 30% and then 19% over a 5-6 year period, whilst sounding large, is not unreasonable considering these increases were necessary to provide some form of competitive remuneration. Furthermore, such increases ultimately benefit almost all the industry as the bench mark is thus set for competitive remuneration for all pilots across the board.

Operators like Bristow and CHC are large and professional organisations providing what is a professional, safe and reliable service to the oil and gas industry. It is appropriate that, for the service they provide, the people providing it are remunerated accordingly. I also believe that both of these organisations have recently passed very similar negotiated rate increases.

[Shell Management]

When the big operators give into such bully boy militant tactics :yuk: they are really pricing themselves out of the market, but they will at least encourage small new, more customer focused entrants, such as Caverton in Nigeria, who will take a more prudent approach to their wage bills:ok:. I'm sure this will happen in Australia too. It is not for nothing that the Shell lead International Helicopter Safety Team is focusing on developing safety in small operators. Such niche suppliers will be no doubt favoured by the top tier oil companies, that can properly supervise them, in the future. Bristow and CHCs future will no doubt shrink as they will only be flying for the small, lower tier independent oil companies that need to pay a premium to compensate for their own lack of aviation expertise.

[kdj123]

Helicopter pilots are way underpaid compared to fixed wing drivers of similar experience level (10 years plus in industry) or in fact many occupations that require the same level of industry experience, so it shouldn't have to come to threatening industrial action, the companies should be agreeing on reasonable pay rises before it gets to that. I don't see how anyone involved in promoting safety thinks that having underpaid, disgruntled pilots flying him around is conducive to safety - pilot wage bills are not as large a proportion of operating expenses as to account for huge premiums to the end user. Also, companies that pay "more prudent" wages don't have the same retention of highly qualified pilots and you may find that replacing such individuals costs a lot more than paying slightly higher wages in the first place.

[Shell Management]

Dspite union propaganda there are always plenty of applicants (supply and demand) and modern training means the standard is high.

It facile to compare driving an S-76 and a 744 and expect the same pay. Thats like claiming a pub singer should be paid the same as Madaonna.

[GoodGrief]

Thats like claiming a pub singer should be paid the same as Madaonna.

That's not nice.
Our 747 captain is assisted by a cojo, he takes off from London, punches the autopilot at 1000 ft and calls the girls for a coffee.
Upon landing in SFO he takes over the aircraft at 1000 feet and lands it.
After that he puts 20 flight hours in his logbook.
What a joke.

How many days does a helicopter pilot have to work hard to write up the same amount of hours?
Four, five days of tough concentrated flying? Not just monitoring instruments?
Actually, it is ok to pay me just above wellfare, 'cause I love flying...
And it is better than not having a job at all, right?

Ah, well...

[Bluntendboy]

ring ring, ring ring..."Hello, it's the decade 2010 calling. We are just calling to advise that its time to update your thinking and consider modern day HR management principles as things have changed a little since the 1950's."

SM...I was not sure if too many people were saying that a 747 bus driver should be paid the same as a light, medium or heavy IFR driver of similar experience. I think the term reasonable was used to compare what an average pilot should expect, whether it be as an offshore pilot or a long liner in the hills in Canuckistan (in this case a multi driver for offshore).

That old chestnut of supply and demand is a great way to try to justify under payment of just about anyone these days. It's a well used excuse by aviation companies the world over and quite frankly it's a tired old one at that. If you want to start talking about cost minimization (ie prudent wage management) of any professional stream, perhaps we could start taking aim at many a senior manager/director/CEO or the like with all these so called performance and safety bonuses :oh:

Alas, I am quite open minded to some of these antiquated concepts of staff remuneration and perhaps we can apply the principle of supply and demand to the airlines, hypothetically speaking. For the sake of saving some cash (and being prudent at the same time), let us grab a few fresh 200hr plank wing pilots and stick them in that 747 that is taking us 12 hrs across the Indian ocean tonight. But don't worry (the modern day training standards are high these days), so nothing to be concerned with...and those higher time guys with the experience under their belts...nothing but a bunch of overpaid singers anyway. Send 'em to the bar or recording studio for a scotch, a smoke and one more appearance in front of the mic.

Better still, perhaps we could get SM together with the CEO of RyanAir. Believe he was quoted as saying pilots were over rated and that a flight attendant could assist in an emergency, alleviating the requirement of 2 pilots in the cockpit:

Replace Ryanair Michael O'Leary with flight attendant: pilot (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/replace-ryanair-boss-with-flight-attendant-pilot-20100914-15a9s.html)

Perhaps this could fit with the offshore world, except this time we could get a rig pig in to assist to 'bring her on home when its all turned to a can of worms'.

I'd be curious to find out what the qualifications are in any case, when comparing an offshore or an EMS twin captain to that of a jet captain. Off the top of my head, most require an ATPL, several thousands hours of ME command and IR renewals, multi-crew and glass cockpit experience. The question begs, if the skills set and the requisite experience levels are similar, then why should the remuneration not follow suit?

Apologies, I just get a little tired of the same rubbish that gets put forward when it comes to trying to explain or justify why we should continue to push the mantra of underpaying or exploiting pilots (or anyone of any professional persuasion).

[GreenerGrass]

Well done to HC and the team.

[800]

Well said Bluntendboy!

How many professions in the world (and definitely not the cleaners on a rig), have to undertake a thorough medical, a IR renewal, a VBC, an IBC etc etc just to be able to maintain your employment?

Failing any or all of the above will probably render you with an empty wallet.

A doctor probably doesn't have to jump through as many hoops as that to keep their job!

Lets keep pushing for reasonable remuneration.

cheers

800

[bladebanger]

SM,
Maybe its time that you hung up your gold bars old boy. Fancy saying that these Bristow/CHC guys will price themselves out of the market and a smaller operator will get the contracts, Maybe you should research a little better as if you noticed Jayrow and HNZ are just thoughts now.

As for pricing themselves out of the market, wages in Australia anyway are about 2% of total cost on any project.

You should be applauding the Bristow guys for setting a higher standard and not letting these multi national companies screw them down. Did you see the number on the top of this page? 87% voted to take industrial action. I have NEVER seen such solidarity among pilots in this country before. (then I have heard they DO NOT employ Kiwi's)

Banger

[Heliringer]

Well said Bladebanger, SM is just a wind up merchant. The smaller operators just can't compete with the likes of CHC and Bristow, which is why we see the two big operators dominating the market in Australia again. Well done the Bristow pilots for negotiating this pay deal. On another note I see Jayrow have pretty much lost all their offshore operations and I don't think we will see them offshore again, they just don't have the money or resources to compete at the same level as Bristow/CHC in OZ from what I have heard.

[Shell Management]

As Australians are well know work dodgers 87% seems low to me.

The low productivity in Australia is well known in the industry with touring pilots being usd in perfectly reasonable places to relocate too like Broome an Karratha.

Your 2% figure is also well off too.

[Epiphany]

Don't react to Shell Management posts. He started on the West Africa Forum where his chosen name was designed to cause upset. He is obviously well pleased with the result and has chosen to spread his own brand of inflammatory commentary elsewhere on Rotorheads.

It has been a very successful technique for him so far - please don't let it happen here. Just ignore the bait.

[Fareastdriver]

Don't react to Shell Management posts.

He is not real Shell management; he is on the internet too much. Real Shell managers are too busy covering their backs from being stabbed by other Shell managers.

[dpale]

Well Far East Driver you are so correct. I noticed SM on the Nigeria thread and wondered what sort of "A Hole" we had but now he is moving off home turf and trying to wind up people on other threads. As Epiphany and others point out it is best to ignore him.
Last time I will rise to the bait, besides I will be too busy spending my new pay raise. Good job and thanks to the Pilot Committee.:D

[nava1]

SM- you call Australians work dodgers. Maybe you should spend more time at work yourself as you seem to spend an awful lot of time concocting up all sorts of dribble on this and the West Africa site. You were obviously bullied quite badly at school as all you seem to do is attempt to bait others trying to have constructive discussions whilst you hide behind your keyboard yapping away like a child. May I suggest that you reinvent yourself, quit being such a bore and grow up. Anyway, moving right along.......

[papa68]

BB,

94% of BHA pilots voted in favour of taking protected IA. However, not all facets of the proposed IA were voted in favour of.

Regardless, it sent a very clear message of intent.

P68:O

[Mary]

Anybody able to cast some light on the rumoured BHL Australia pay award just recently?

[kwikenz]

There hasn't been a recent pay award. The guys are about half way through a 2 and a half year agreement.

PM me if you want the latest.

Unfortunately there is little (read no) movement at the moment. BHA haven't hired for some time and that doesn't appear likely to change in the near future.

[CW Pirate]

BHA haven't hired for some time and that doesn't appear likely to change in the near future.

Email received stating Bristow Australia been swamped with applications from their 2012 ad. Currently being sorted and reviewed, no further contact until May 2013.

[CW Pirate]

BHA haven't hired for some time and that doesn't appear likely to change in the near future. Email received stating Bristow Australia been swamped with applications from their 2012 ad. Currently being sorted and reviewed, no further contact until May 2013.

[yarpa]

There are a few stories floating around, I have heard some applicants received the 'You have been short listed" email. I guess they are matching staff to airframes over the coming months. Good luck to all who applied.

[gulliBell]

....I got the May email, which I take to mean I haven't been short-listed. Good luck to those who have been, it should be a pretty good gig.

[bigglesbutler]

Over 400 applicants so it will take a while to sort through them, good luck though and don't give up just yet if you haven't heard anything.

Si

[Autonomous Collectiv]

G'day all

I've had a call from HR and I've been selected for an interview. Can anyone give me a heads up on the process? What testing processes do Bristow use, PILAPS/Compass?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance
AC