City Jet....C###S

[Vito Corleone]

So I go 7 months without nothing from any airline, no confirmation of receipt of CV, no "sorry but we are not recuting," .... then one airline has the decency to respond to me.... CityJet...

Ah ha I think, finally maybe I might be onto something here...........

So I go along to their Aptitude tests in Dublin, at a cost of around 200 pounds including flight and hotels...........(Everyone who was there was from the UK, so why the f##k did they not hold the tests in the UK????)
I pass the aptitude tests so they tell me to come to interview in london, at a cost of around 150 pounds, including train fares and hotels............

Then they say to me.... sorry, but we do not want you.....

So I have spent 350 ish pounds to find that out! Cheers.

This is just another example of the disgraceful tactics used by this industry. For ANY other profession, if you are called to an interview the company calling you has the decency to pay your expenses, but in the airline industry???????????? They make you think that they are doing you a favour by considering you for their operation, im sorry but I an doing them a favour, by offering myself to work weekends, bank holidays, even christmas for your sorry outfit.

City Jet......... I hope your airline faces bankruptcy in the next year and I or any of my fiends and family will NEVER travel with your airline in the future. THANK YOU FOR WASTING MY TIME AND MONEY.

Vito.

[tezzer]

Are you upset by any chance ?

[timzsta]

Yes and when they go bust and their management/chief pilot etc goes elsewhere to another airline and you apply what are the chances of getting a job after that little outburst. This industry is to small to burn bridges.

Take it on the chin and move on.

[hpcock]

.....and you think that you're the first person to experience this?

So you weren't good enough - take the lessons from what you gained by this experience. You will eventually find someone who says "yes" but until then.

Lastly - perhaps a change of attitude & a little less anger/bitterness, or you might be waiting a bit longer. People in this industry have a habit of remembering, inc those of us who are currently in the flight deck!!

All the best for the future

[bobster1]

Vito Corleone, What world have you been living in, I have been called for interviews all over the UK in my past life, once with the RAC, 1st interview in Leeds at 8am, 2nd interview in London again early morning, I travelled the day before on both occasions and stayed overnight at my expense, then worked for an Irish firm, 1st interview in Stoke, 2nd in Wellesbourne, as before travelled on previous days and stayed overnight at my expense.
I got both jobs but thats irrelevent.

Maybe next time you get a sniff of something, put in your covering letter that you will only be interviewed in your own home, or within a 10 mile radius of it, or anywhere else at the companys expense. See how far you get.

Yes its annoying, but get real.

[Callsign Kilo]

Vito, maybe it's not the case...so I will stand corrected if I'm wrong.

However due to the depressing and negative tones that are displayed in your posts, have you ever thought that your attitude may be in contention here?

As someone correctly said, aviation is a small world and names are remembered. And by the way, your situation isn't unique. How many others (including myself) are in the same boat as you find yourself. At least you have had a little experience of what airline recruitment is all about. Some people don't even get that far!

Moaning to people will get you the square root of 'F' all in this industry. As inexperienced as I am, I'm pretty certain that this is true!

[flyvirgin]

vito,
There are thousands of airlines in the world,when i get my CPL i will be applying to every single airline someone,someday is going to employ me. You are so negative its unbelievable. I can think of nothing or no one that is going to stop me in my dream to be an airline pilot.

[TurboJ]

I think possibly the abusive tone of your post illustrates why you didn't get the job. :mad:

[shaun ryder]

It happens to us all you fool. You are obviously very limited in your experience of life and responsibility. As the others say, it should be seen as a positive thing because you have gained the experience, the tools to arm yourself for your next interview, thats if you ever get one now! It seems your one track immature mind never thought that the citi jet people might have the brains to put two and two together by reading your pathetic post.

If it was me who had interviewed you, I would have no trouble sussing out which tosser just slagged me and my company off online because they were not up to the standards of the company!

A little piece of my heart goes out to you, because it seems that you have made a gargantuan mistake in investing yours, or more likely parents money, in what is your biggest mistake.

[ST-EX]

Oh give him a break! I happen to think it is a bit of a cheek being made to pay all this-I think in the aviation industry we pay so much already that he has a right to be frustrated. It's true that in any other industry those expenses would be refunded if you were not successful, and it's only because people are willing to accept being ripped off in desperation for a job that companies don't feel any need to meet those costs.
He is only showing a negative attitude because he is feeling frustrated-surely we have all been there,so lets show a little empathy!

[Luke SkyToddler]

Looks to me like Cityjet just had a very lucky escape :hmm:

[boeingbus2002]

Vito - Bad luck. At least you had an opportunity to sell yourself and meet them. Ive been trying with CityJet for ages and not even a sniff. Did you have to pay for the interview itself? Some other Irish carrier require a payment to participate in the selction process!
As regards to yor attitude, im not going to comment on it to say "get real" etc. However if you are perhaps coming across a bit too "aggresive" in an interview situation, this maybe a factor which is putting them off. Airlines usually want a balanced personality and nothing too extreme, (not too aggressive or too meek!)
You could try other European carriers though. They do pay for your expenses there.
Good luck

[TurboJ]

He is only showing a negative attitude because he is feeling frustrated-surely we have all been there,so lets show a little empathy!

We have all undoubtedly been there. However, the mistake is showing negativity in public and in such an immature fashion.

[No Country Members]

Ok, but he does have a point about expenses. In SOME other walks of life these are paid to prospective candidates, subsequently hired or not. The airline sector thinks, quite factually as it turns out, that because it is offering a glamorous job (is it?) for which there are always many aspiring hopefuls, it can get away without paying.

That's just the beginning of it unfortunately, and whilst there are too many applicants for each and every job it's not going to change, in fact it will get worse. Ask anyone who works for Ryanair.

[dann1405]

I have one fundamental problem with your post Vito. Irrespective of whether the principle of future employees paying their own expenses is right or wrong, YOU KNEW THE DEAL BEFORE YOU ATTENDED.

If you had an ethical problem with paying your own travel and accomodation you should not have attended the selections. That would have been the time to make a stand.

So I have spent 350 ish pounds to find that out!

This would also have been the case if you had been successful. The principle would have been exactly the same. Your reaction, however, would have been somewhat different I believe? They would have been your new best friends. But because they rejected you they are "C###S." Slightly warped logic.

Incidentally, what do you know about the "airline industry" as a whole? You've attended a selection with ONE company. Some companies will pay your expenses, some won't. The ones that will are not necessarily the ones you would expect.

I or any of my fiends and family will NEVER travel with your airline in the future

Grow up.

PS And good luck to you Sir

[FliegerTiger]

"Everyone who was there was from the UK, so why the f##k did they not hold the tests in the UK????".....errr....maybe because it's an Irish airline?
The world doesn't owe you a living, pal. Anybody who has done even a moderate amount of research into the aviation industry knows that the really hard work begins AFTER training. We've all been there, I still have all my rejection letters, it made it all the sweeter when I finally did get a job. But your outburst makes me wonder how you would cope with life in the airlines...there's a LOT of being messed about, you may have to relocate, etc. I would suggest removing the house-sized chip from your shoulder, as any interviewer is going to spot that a mile away.

Something to consider for the future...

FT

[alphaadrian]

Maybe getting off the subject a little bit but whats new on pprune:)! I have had several interviews both for instructor positions and airline jobs. Some I have been lucky with and some unlucky.
Had an interview with Cityjet back in June and I must say it was probably the easiest, most comfortable interview i have ever had. I came away thinking that it was "in the bag" (and I aint normally optimistic). Few days later the letter arrived..thanks but no thanks. So one doesnt really know what they were looking for!!
That is fair enough..they are employing so they call the shots. I just hope that one doesnt get called to interview when the decision has already been made and you are being interviewed just to "make the numbers up". I am not saying that was the case here but it certainly goes on in other professions so i guess its no different in aviation.

Best of luck to everyone in their search:ok:

[Night-flyer]

today, i've got a written letter posted by Cityjet stating that they reviewed my experience (600 hrs) but they decided do not call me in for an interview due my lack of experience :ugh:

... well good luck to whom might got the job :}

[Turkish777]

My interview at Ryan Air cost me 800.00 pounds and they didn't even have the courtesy to let me know if I had passed or failed. I chased them up after a week with a telephone call and they didnt have a clue who I was. Then I got a standard email a few days later saying I had been unsucessful...(after they had praised me up all day and mentioned start days, cost of TR etc)

But I hope they don't go bankrupt as there will be about 4000 pilots on the market which would ruin us all (wannabee's that is)

Sim practice on 737-200 400.00
FR Fee 260.00
Flight 100.00 with Ryan Air...bastards done me again haha
Hotel 50.00

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

I have agree with Dann, come on guys you must have known the deal.

If you are prepared to part with you hard earned cash to fund a selection process surely you have to take the rough with the smooth, and accept the fact you may be unsucessful, as well as be sucessful.

Its a hard business chaps, but try not to be bitter, keep trying.

All the best.

[RS999]

£350??? Is that it??? I think you may need to re-evaluate your priorities if you really want to get into this industry.

I've got a place on the CTC Wings scheme, leaving the UK for NZ in January.

I've been to their Crew Training Centres 3 times so far with approx costings as follows:

First Time for Stage 2 (which, incidentally I failed)....£373 for travel to PWK from home, flights to BOH, taxi's back and forth between BOH, hotel and CTC, Hotel for 2 nights B&B and a few meals. Oh yeah...that includes £170 ish for the assessment day!

Second time for stage 2 as above except only 1 night in hotel and no second charge for assessment day....£178

Third time for Stages 3 and 4.....this time with 3 nights in hotel, hire car (as taxi's are too expensive and one day was in Bournemouth, the other in Southampton).....£352

Passed all of these so needed Disclosure...£20, plus JAA Class 1 Medical and flights to Gatwick plus meals....£310 plus £75 then flights to Hythe to arrange finance...£65 return, plus flights and 3 nights hotel etc for induction day and evening reception for me and my wife (with the other students and their family) £400.

In total I have spent so far approx £1943 since July 2006 and I haven't even thought about insurance for my life, medical, finance etc at about £1200.

Unfortunately for me I live 500 miles away from where they want to assess and interview me as well as approx 400 miles away from the only place I can do my JAA Initial Class 1 medical but thats the way it goes and I fully accept that everyone I want to be trained/employed by will not be on my doorstep and willing to pay to assess and interview me as you seem to expect!

Quit bitching as an attitude like that over £350 will not be tolerated by any airline you want to be employed by hence, I'm sure, you didn't get a job! :=

[CamelhAir]

Airlines charge for interviews etc because you wannabes will pay it. Do you think they wouldn't hire if they had to fund the interview themselves or pay for your rating? The aeroplanes will fly anyway, even if the airlines have to provide everything for the interview. The difference between success and failure for an airline is not the piddling cost of an interview. The TR is provided by the manufacturer as part of the deal for buying the aircraft, so they don't need to charge you. They do because you all keep paying.

If you are willing to pay, they will accept. You're cutting your own throats.

For example, ryr are desperately short of pilots. They do not have hundreds of CV's. If a few of you refuse to pay, they will provide TR's.
You're cutting your own throats.

Quit bitching as an attitude like that over £350 will not be tolerated by any airline you want to be employed by hence, I'm sure, you didn't get a job!

If everyone bitched, nobody would have to pay. Sheep. :ugh:

[captain_quagmire]

vito corleone, did you not realise that the industry was like this before you started out?

[hotelmodemetar]

In France if you are unemployed, when you manage to get an interview far from where you live, the national job center gives you the money back to cover travel expenses (hotel, flights, etc..). Which is quite good indeed :D

Vito Corleone, don't worry, life is a school and we all learn from mistakes. Try to understand why you were not succesfull on that particular day, and next time should be the good one :ok:

Good luck.

[BongleBear]

Sort your attitudes out guys.

Luke SkyToddler got it right when he said "Cityjet had a lucky escape" not employing you. I certainly wouldn't want you sat next to me for a few hours with that attitude.

CamelhAir- you're like a broken record, quit moaning about people paying for their own training, yes everyone hates that they have to pay for their own training, but that's the trend over the last twenty years in this industry. Get over it. You knew how much it costs to get a job before you got into this industry.

Vito - you sound like one of those idiots who buys a house cheap becuase it's next to an airport and then moan about the noise. If you're lucky enough to get another interview then expect to pay at least that amount of money training towards the interview and you might just get it.

That's all I have to say about that.

[RS999]

If a few of you refuse to pay, they will provide TR'sBit naive there. I'm sure it would take every commercial pilot who wants further TR's and every wannabe on the planet to refuse to pay before every airline provides free training and type ratings.

If there were no wannabe's, willing to fund, part fund or find sponsorship then the world would soon run out of pilots!:ugh:

As for the 'sheep' comment, I suppose your atpl training and B737 TR were free then?? Or was the silver spoon never removed?

[CamelhAir]

If there were no wannabe's, willing to fund, part fund or find sponsorship then the world would soon run out of pilots

No it wouldn't, the airlines would fund it. As they have in the past when it was required, and as they will in the future if necessary. The difference between success and failure for an airline is not the cost of the training, incl ab initio training. That's merely propaganda that wannabes have bought into.
China is doing zero to hero training, fully funded, right now. Why? Because they have to.
An objective view of this industry is vital.

Sorry Bongle, the truth ain't always palitable.

[RS999]

As for the 'sheep' comment, I suppose your atpl training and B737 TR were free then?? Or was the silver spoon never removed?

I take it this was ignored then or do you actually not have either??

[portsharbourflyer]

Cityjet are one of the few airlines that still offer training bonds and will consider low hour frozen ATPL holders for a JAR 25 jet. Cityjet is probably one of the best deals around for a fATPL holder at the moment.

Most would consider the expense of attending the interview for the possibility of a training bond onto a jet a worthwhile gamble; especially with so many airlines operating pay for type rating schemes these days.

[flash8]

I'm afraid Vito has a point (although his attitude might be another matter).

Self-sponsored TR, Line Training, Costly Sim Checks, Interview expenses are just the thin wedge.. may be OK for some of you guys with cash to burn, but the new fATPL is then expected to throw out more cash with no guarantees all to save the employer a few pennies (or pounds), so my sympathies.

However those of you who seem to love to attack Vito's viewpoint (not his attitude) should remember that your working conditions are gradually eroded by such tactics. Its disgusting and lowers standards as well as those who pay fly those who can't... well they don't. Its a generalization that is scarily becoming almost the norm.

Personally I'd rather fly with a self-improver with 500hrs instructing and 50hrs light twin (the good old days) than the cash heavy twats one sometimes sees who seem to think its OK to pay for everything (including being on the line).

[Mach086]

I am in agreement with Flash 8. Yes, I agree with Vito's point on the way the industry treats wannabes (don't agree with the attitude or wishing an airline to go bust).

I am dumbfounded by the way the industry treats wannabes by making them pay for everything without the airline paying expenses - at least for travel.

Of course you are all going to say things like "There are tons of low hour pilots so if you cant pay, we will just take another from the pool" and "You knew the industry before you bought the ATPL / TR - no guarantee of a job" etc ... but BUT this does not make it right and things really must change. Sure, being a pilot is a priviledged job but it shouldn't be some secret society where you have to bend over and get shafted (yes literally) in order to get the job after already spending close to £70K!!

This is the ONLY industry (someone pls correct me) where you spend 70K and are not guaranteed a job at the end of it. And then you have the likes of Pilotmike saying spend £400 on a sim check and £150 on an interview preparation day. Are you serious PilotMike???

Is this really the state of industry that I want to join? Is this how I am to be treated? So if someone is "lucky" enough to get 5 interviews in a year, then you are looking at £2750 for 'preparation' on top of the fact that you may have paid £15K for a TR and £70K for an integrated course and don't forget that you may have lost an average of £25-30K salary as you spent a year doing the course itself!!! NOt to mention how much you really would pay back in interest on replayments if you got a loan or if you remortgaged the house.

So with everything I just said, the statement changes :This is the ONLY industry (someone pls correct me) where you spend directly/indirectly 150K and are not guaranteed a job at the end of it.

Vito - I welcome your rants. And if just one wannabe per year takes a browse of PPRUNE and sees your posts which makes them think twice as hard before deciding to join the industry (not neccesarily deciding against being a pilot), then you should be commended. It's good to have a reality check now and then.

[pilotmike]

And then you have the likes of Pilotmike saying spend £400 on a sim check and £150 on an interview preparation day. Are you serious PilotMike???


Yes, completely serious. Let me explain it to you.

This whole situation reminds me of the You've Been Framed clip of a rather overweight lady running down the beach, chasing the air-bed which is being blown away from her. She runs the whole length of the beach, exhausted, always just metre from catching the wayward air-bed, without ever catching it. Had she simply put a fraction more effort into catching the air-bed right at the start, she'd have saved all that wasted time and effort, and be lying down on it sipping cocktails in the sun. Vito's situation somehow reminds me of it - if he just focused some of his effort into self improvement instead of venting his illogical fury with aviation / flying schools / Cityjet / British capitalist society / paying travel costs / (add whatever else you care to), he might just figure out where he needs to spend his effort.

As we are discussing a serious profession where we are all expected to be professional, surely spending £550 isn't such a huge sum to invest in one's self to be able to present at interview the very best one can?

Most wannabes have already invested some £55k (or considerably more) to get the very bare basic qualifications necessary to be eligible to apply for the job. So the further investment of just £550, or about 1% extra, could make the vital difference between success and failure. Just think - 1% extra to set yourself apart from the queues of wannabes who have done nothing to make themselves shine and stand out from the crowd. That looks like extremely good value to me, given how hard it is to land that first job.

Using Vito as an example, he might very well have benefitted from the £550 investment I suggested, so long as he had bothered to learn that he needs to lose that attitude to get anywhere in life. Had he made that small investment in himself, then he probably would never have had to pay to travel to any more interviews.

We humble pilots don't set the rules, we simply learn to play by them. Paying a modest sum to learn the rules thoroughly and to hone one's skills seems an incredibly wise investment, and I was completely serious in recommending it.

But Vito and others will probably continue to justify why somehow they simply don't need to.

[SD.]

Some very wise words pilotmike. :ok:


Oh, I'd give my left arm for a Cityjet interview. :ugh:

[PPRuNe Towers]

Wise words or just another who's succeeded in flipping the real world 180 degrees to make the self justification seem sane and even sensible.

Previous history safely shelved. It was all a very long time ago and they were very, very drunk.

Return on investment beautifully ignored.

Future ability to pay off loans, get morgage, start family nicely distanced on that burner right at the very, very back of the hob.

So, that's it then. Trebles all round.

Rob

[dartagnan]

Dear Vito,

you are right, that' s f... disgusting! (I translate:"c'est la vie!!!")

why don't you try airlines paying you for travel and hotel?.
I got an interview with Tyrolean, cost me nothing. 12 euro only (had to pay my own breakfast).I went there cuz it was paid!

then I got another interview few weeks later , the company didnt asked me any money. I even asked them if I had to pay the sim check cuz I have 0 money for them.they told me they take care of all expenses.

you must focus and apply only where you can get money, not giving your money to these C%%^s.

[jamestkirk]

Vito - Its all a bit frustrating I know. Don't be too worried about the people slagging you off for venting your anger. A problen shared/halved and all that.

I had those tests a couple of years back. If cityjet strill use Harcourt Publishing for thier aptitudes tests then;

What do they intend to gain from those tests. Generic and long winded. A bit of a lazy HR department i think.

Very much like the old CTC group discussion for phase 2. I really wanted to ask what model they were using to assess character and communication skills. I know the answer would be 'none'. Completely useless and ineffective way of measuring the above. Although, I don't think they do that anymore. Without sounding stuck-up, as an ex management trainer, i found that part of the experience laughable.

If anyone is bothered, you can contact Harcourt and get those tests. Which again seems a little strange.

Its just the sort of stuff you need to take on the chin and move on.

[Mach086]

PilotMike, thanks for your reply but I am just trying to present Vito's point which unfortunately he has hidden within his attitude and confrontational posts which means everyone is slating him. Because if you look deeper - he is making a bloody good point.

I am trying to bring out the fact that the industry as a whole - due to its status as being a dream job etc - must not use this as an excuse to treat potentials like this.

You may call me a prophet of doom but how long will it be until Airlines actually implement a form of the employment regime that France was trying to bring in (unsuccesfully if you remember)? - i.e Work for the airline for 2 years on the minimum wage and if you don't cut the mustard, then you can be sacked without argument?

How long will it be until Airlines will only give you a job if you work for free for the first year?

How long will it be until Airlines will want you to give a blood donation in order for them to paint their liveries!!!!????

But you can't complain! "Be positive", "have good attitude". "You knew about the difficulties of the airline industry before you spent money" etc..

Mike, There is one point that we must agree to disagree. And that is I would NEVER be able to fathom paying £550 to get ahead of the rest having already paid for your ATPL because what it means is "he who has the money gets the job".

Do you know Vito's finaincial situation? Maybe he took out a HSBC loan. For 7 months he says he hasn't even had a response. Yet somehow he has to pay £500/600 a month back to HSBC - ontop of rent/food/mortgage?. Can he afford £550 in order to get a job that he has already trained for, passed and has the license to prove it? What happens if he doesn't get it? Should he pay another £550 in 2 months time? Then again, then again ad infinitum?

This should not and must not be the case and if you are correct that this £550 would have got him the job, then I hope all Wannabe's read this post and realise what type of industry they are joining.

£550 might very well be 1% extra investment, but what if you can't find that 1%? According to Vito, he spent £350 in expenses getting to the interview. So if he managed to beg steal and borrow for that £550 - then hed just have £200 left! Not enough for a sim ride.

Everyone - please try and ignore Vito's attititude for one minute and give constructive responses incase there are other wannabe's reading this thread. And I dont mean spouting corporate management spiel "be positive, your time will come, wear a smile bla blah blah". I feel for this bloke - this might be me one day. It could be any of us.

If you can't find anything to say then say the truth that many don't wish to admit. And that is

"Tough Sh!t. Sorry Vito but it happens".

That way, in years to come we wont have more fATPL pilots crying on the forum. Becasue they will k now the truth from reading the arhives.

[sick_bag]

paying for an interview with ctc or ryanair or whoever is rubbish, lets face it.

only when the number of low houred desperados starts to reduce (which it may, possibly, i think) will this situation change. i love flying and have a frozen atpl but i also love engineering and will be happy to carry on with that if it comes down to it. not gonna shaft myself for the sake of working for some of these ****ty ass companies (if it was ANY other job - you wouldn’t look twice at one or two these outfits - thats the truth isnt it). Have a (good) plan B i say...

also, it would be interesting to know what the differences in quality of applicant are for the different airlines - especially those who screw everyone vs those who dont

chin up chaps, one day, we'll all be millionaires :)

[Canada Goose]

Sickbag, I'm with you all the way ! Similar situation - guess we're fortunate to have our Plan B - then again it paid for all the training, bit by bit, without any debt ! I think pilotmike's suggestion is to pay for interview training, which I believe is a good idea and he does paint in my mind an accurate picture ! However, giving Vito the benefit of the doubt I believe he was just venting off his disappointment (and let's face it we all say things in the heat of the moment sometimes), perhaps not how I would choose to articulate it on a public forum, but hey ! Each to his own. That said, as Dan1405 quite rightly points out - all these costs must have been perceived prior to interview etc and had things gone differently Vito would have been posting the good news and telling everyone how he (maybe she?) can't wait to join them !!

However, Vito does address the underlying issue which is, placing the burden of travel and accommodation costs on the individual (read wanabee who is more likely than not already skint after paying massive sums to be 'privileged' enough to actually legitimately apply to the airline in the first place) and let's face it £350 is not an insignificant amount of money, regardless of the fact the individual may have paid IRO £50k ! Any interview that I have been to for a permanent position in engineering has had the travel expenses reimbursed and for one interview I went to in Canada the company paid for return flights from YOW to YVR for me and my wife, hotel, hire car and expenses for the whole weekend; and I still turned the job offer down !

Vito makes another point about the aptitude tests. If as he says, all those attending were from the UK, then would it have been too much for CJ to host them in a hotel, in let's say, the Midlands, and give those in the UK a reasonable chance of attending without too much expense? This kind of thing happens a lot in engineering when they have a recruitment drive on.

Anyway, to all you wanabees out there - chin up ! The competition is now one less as I have decided to stick with engineering. When I decided to go CPL at age 34 the industry was soooooo different and I really don't think I want to be a part of it anymore !! Also, for lifestyle reasons !! I'm under no doubt I would have enjoyed the flying, but I'm sorry it's not going to happen at any cost, and I don't necessarily mean financially either !!

Good luck one and all. You're going to need it !!

CG.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Look I agree with Vito - Cityjet ARE a bunch of ****s. They are absolutely renowned for dangling a bit shiny-jet baited hook in front of every 200 hour wannabe in Europe and calling them for "assessment".

However if Vito would have done the slightest bit of research before he opened his wallet, he would have found out that information.

It's just another symptom of the exact same disease that we all told the guy off about last month. The problem with Vito is that he is yet another 200 hour hero who feels that it's his god given right to step straight into a big jet and won't countenance flying anything smaller or less befitting to his incredible status. And then goes all foul mouthed and bitchy when he pitches up at some ripoff scheme masquerading as an assessment day, and finds that there's intense competition for S.F.A. jobs. Did you by any chance go to the Ryanair "information day" up at East Mids the other day as well Vito?

There are plenty of jobs out there that are entirely within Vito's grasp that don't charge a peanut for assessment or training or type rating or anything else. But I bet he's not applied to a single one. You could try here (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/tcontactlist.html) for a start.

If he would - if ALL of you would - only stop applying to the likes of these chancers, then the problem would go away. But there is absolutely zero chance of that happening, because the puppet masters in Cityjet and Ryanair and all the rest of those kind of airlines make sure to give just enough of you a job, to keep the wannabe gossip mills churning and the rest of you queueing up to throw a few hundred here and a few hundred there at these kind of assessments.

No sympathy sorry. As the great P.T. Barnum once said, "It is morally wrong to allow suckers to keep their money". And THAT my friends is what you all are, for supporting these kind of schemes.

The world is so full of great little aeroplanes, and great genuine low-timer jobs, great places to fly and have some awesome experiences and build some hours while you're young and working your way through the ranks, I just shake my head in disbelief sometimes, it just seems that all you Brits are incapable for a single second of thinking outside the box and going out to where all this flying is waiting to be found, that you all think these kind of ripoffs are the only way to get ahead in this business, well let me tell you they're NOT!!

[edited because I had, in fact, failed to grasp that Vito was only bitching about the cost of his hotels & flights - not the assessment itself? I was sure Cityjet charged for the actual assessment, but I am happy to hold my hand up and eat my words if wrong. Vito mate you seriously seriously need a reality check if travel costs to an interview is all it takes to wind you up. And you better not apply for Ryanair because you'll be paying for your own flights and hotels to every sim and nightstop for the rest of forever].

[Canada Goose]

Luke I was not aware that prospects paid for their assessment days and interviews at City Jet (I'm aware of RYR pulling this despicable stunt though). If as you say this is true, then my sympathy wanes, rapidly ! I'd never considered CJ due to the location of their bases not being convenient for me and my family. As for RYR, if there was one thing I was sure of, it was I was never going to apply to them !!

I had taken Vitos comment of

So I go along to their Aptitude tests in Dublin, at a cost of around 200 pounds including flight and hotels...........(Everyone who was there was from the UK, so why the f##k did they not hold the tests in the UK????)
I pass the aptitude tests so they tell me to come to interview in london, at a cost of around 150 pounds, including train fares and hotels............
To be solely costs incurred for transport and hotel - not to include a fee to CJ.

I agree whole heartedly with the rest of your post !! :ok:

CG

[Superpilot]

Vito,

People know this reality all to well and will foolishly lash out on those people who are now discovering it. It gives them a cheap frill. Pretty much sums up the Wannabe Forum over the last few years.

[chileconcarne27]

Probably not the best thread to put this on, as i sense a certain amount of bitterness towards this prtcular airline, but:

:eek: CITYJET/FTE SPONSORSHIP IS NOW OPEN FOR APPLICATIONS :eek:

Check out the FTE website for more details www.flighttrainingeurope.com

You never know, someone may have read this thread and thought 'hey, they don't sound like too bad an airline, i really want to work for them!'


...or maybe not.

[Bi88les]

Vito, I just got a job with CityJet - I'm glad I'll never fly with you.

[Just another student]

Bi88les,

Well done on getting a job :)

JAS

[skyhighbird]

Well done biggles. nice to hear a success story on here :) Be good to hear more of these!

xx

[newbie008]

the fte/cityjet scheme - anyone know what the cadet pay is like at cityjet?

[v6g]

I take the same opinion as Canada Goose and support Vito in his despair and frustration. All the others criticising him don't seem to understand the premise of what a job is for, or the fundamental purpose of a career.

For Vito, you should be thinking about whether, in the long run, you would be better off finding work in an alternate industry, for the time being anyway, start chipping away at the debt and building the firm foundations of a "Plan B".

I know you've spent a lot of money to get this far, we all have, but maybe the right thing to do is to bravely say to Cityjet/Ryanair/Etc, "Thank you for the invite to interview, but I won't pay you to interview me and the associated travel expenses or pay you to train me in your aircraft, goodbye".

Although the last couple of years have often been called "The Good Times" - they've also come at a time of very cheap money, which has increased the number of wannabees in the market as well as encouraging the SSTR. The cheap money era has come to an end. You probably have several decades of a career ahead of you, waiting a few years on the sidelines won't hurt. Even if there is some apocalyptic meltdown of the aviation industry over the next few years at least you'll have some experience behind you in another industry.

Like Canada Goose, I come from an engineering background. For the last job interview I had, I was flown half-way round the world for the interview (1 week in a hotel, car hire, food, all paid for just for a 1-day interview), when I accepted the job I was given a 5 figure sum to "assist in my relocation costs". I was 24 at the time with just 2 years experience. This wasn't for a high-flying executive position, it was just for a job where my skillset was in demand.

Vito, you've come a long way so far but you should objectively consider all the risks with continuing to pursue aviation in the current way. In another career path, you could still instruct in your spare time and probably enjoy the flying & freedom all the more without the stresses of bullying management.

In an industry where employees are becoming part of the revenue stream, remuneration packages have been declining over the long term, and the whole show is entirely dependent on cheap oil, I've decided that it's not the wisest path for me (at least in the current economic climate). Is it really the best thing for you, now?

I might re-visit that decision if the situation changes, but for now, I'm happy not being part of the biggest gamble there is and flying for fun.

[newbie008]

the fte/cityjet scheme - anyone know what the cadet pay is like at cityjet?


Does anyone know? I found £19300 which seems awful to me especially paying back that amount

[wxjedi]

Vito

Some clarity here please. I used to fly for Cityjet and know for a fact that they do NOT charge anything for Aptitude, Interview or Sim. To suggest otherwise is incorrect.
You simply pay your way to the asssessment site. Thats fair enough to me.
As with everywhere there are a few issues which have largely been addressed since I left.
Also, there are many great guys/gals flying for them and I bet they are grateful that you are still on the outside.
Get a life and grow up!!!!!!

Tom

[peterinmadrid]

Perhaps you should consider following up your interview with a letter along the lines of "may the flies of a thousand plagues infest your rotting carcass!" That should help make sure that they remember you next time you send in your CV.

[CarbHeatIn]

From PPJN -
New agreement with the french flight school EPAG at Lille. EPAG will select suitable candidates. Those candidates will have to pay for their training up to CPL IR ME ATPL frozen licence and then Cityjet will offer the MCC and type rating on the RJ AVRO. Training at EPAG is in french language. Cadets will be bonded and with a lower payscale. Bases will be BHX, LCY and DUB.

What does this, along with the FTE gig mean for the Sigmar thing in South Africa?

[Blueskies82]

I applied to Cityjet last year and was invited to the assesment. A few weeks later I received a letter that said I have been succesful and that they will contact me soon to continue the recruitment process.

Then again a few weeks later I received a letter saying "Thank you for your interest, unfortunately your recruiment process will not be continued. Please apply again in 1 year." What the f%!¤´ck?

Something tells me their HR department is screwed up...I wouldn't recommend any 200hrs pilots to put much effort on Cityjet.

Was nice to see Paris though....something positive :)

[mack 1]

I note that you are the same person who asked where have all the jobs gone then.
I do think that reading these two posts from yourself that you are a very angry and frustrated person. This you may well need to work on as unbeknown to yourself it may come through in an inteview.
I can understand your frustration however, you must learn how to deal with it.
Being called for an interview means that you do have the qualities that a company is looking for, you must now learn how to present them in person.
Best of luck

[BoeingMEL]

For what it's worth, this Ppruner spent many years responsible for pilot recruitment and training with a major UK charter airline.

One of the boxes which HAD to be ticked was ATTITUDE... regardless of age, experience and qualifications.

I regret that, right now, your present attitude means that you don't even qualify for an interview...let alone a job!

Who in heaven's name would want to share 2, 4 or 6 sectors a day with you?

Sorry my friend.......... you're still on the bottom rung and the prognosis is not good.

I sincerely hope that you have an intimate relationship with modesty, reality and common sense very soon. You need the industry more than it needs you.

Regards, BM

[dartagnan]

yeah tick the box:

1. I have a great attitude and I will pay you for interview, type rating, line training and 6 months free salary.I am very flexible and I want be a martyr!

2. I have a bad attitude,if you want I work for you, please send me a flight ticket and book me a room so we can discuss seriously about my future in your company.

[speedrestriction]

You had a shot Vito, it didn't work out; take it on the chin and move on. I'm not that long employed in the industry but one thing is apparent - it is a very small world. You've heard of six degrees of separation - well I'd reckon in aviation its about three at most. There is no room to go around badmouthing anyone, not even on anonomous fora.

Keep chipping away, have patience and with the right attitude and a little luck something will come up for you.

sr