View Full Version : General pilot supply vs. demand in the EU
9th Oct 2007, 05:08
I am curious as to how is the general job market for pilots in Europe at the moment?
Is there a lack of pilots everywhere?
Are there too many pilots, and not enough jobs?
Is it somewhere inbetween?
Would you go to say there is a shortage of pilots in Europe?
In the U.S for the first time in I suppose a very long time, people are saying there is a pilot shortage. The regionals everywhere are hiring due to expansion, and this trend is supposed to continue. Now is the time to apply and get on with a carrier while the oppurtunity is presenting itself.
What is the situation in Europe at the moment is the main question?
9th Oct 2007, 11:07
actually what I have seen around me these last months can be resumed in 3 levels:
1)there are many low hours pilots looking for a job, and few job opportunities.
2)then on the next step, I have seen airlines asking for all ratings and not willing to pay anything in term of training, and even ask us to pay for line training, first 500h (eaglejet, Indigo, Atlasjet by exemple),...
3)many jobs for experienced captains.
by chance the situation is "improving" for pilots. I hope it will continue like that.
if there is a shortage of 200h pilots in the USA, it is simply because people can not afford a training and be paid less than 2000$/month with no guaranty to join a major.
Plus the T&C has considerably decreased during these last years.
Pilots' shortage is a term used by the airline industry, they can level up or down their minimum requirements to set the "pilots' shortage".It is up to them to decide what they want do with us and with our bank accounts.
there is a little video on youtube which reflect very well the situation:
10th Oct 2007, 15:38
So to sum up the first part of your post, is saying that at the moment there is no serious demand for pilots.
I guess the fact alone that airlines are still requireing their new hires to pay for their training and TR's says that they are not hurting.
Are there any airlines that do not require a self funded TR? Is there another way, such as a bond, or reduced pay for the first year to deal with this? Can you bargain with them somehow? :ugh:
10th Oct 2007, 16:18
How about this kind of job interview? Notabene just for a small putput turboprop job... Certainly a bit over the board but pretty much sums up the state of the industry at the moment.
Recruiter: Have you done a full time, integrated >£60k course at the one and only big name school that I'm going to specify?
Wannabee: Uhm, no, I wanted to go there but just couldn't afford it :(
Recruiter: Well then, do you have 1500 hours?
Wannabee: Yes :)
Recruiter: Do you have 500 hours multicrew on a jet > 60 tonnes?
Wannabee: Yes :)
Recruiter: Since we operate a small turboprop only and not your big shiny jet, are you willing to pay £20k for your type rating, including all accommodation costs?
Wannabee: Yes (whopee) :)
Recruiter: Are you willing to work for free during at least the first six months?
Wannabee: Yes :)
Recruiter: Are you aware that there is no guarantee of a paid job with us after that?
Wannabee: Yes :)
Recruiter: Gooooood... if you get a paid job with us it's going to be £15k a year. Good isn't it?
Wannabee: Uhm... but I couldn't live on that :sad:
Recruiter: Well then get the :mad: off this room and stop wasting my time!!!! :=
Wannabee's conclusion: there is NO shortage of pilots whatsoever.:ugh::ugh::ugh:
11th Oct 2007, 15:51
jeez, I really didnt think its actually that bad.
For some reason or another I was under the impression that airlines need pilots pretty badly. But I guess this is not the case at the moment.
11th Oct 2007, 16:36
It isn't that bad. But it does seem to be stagnating a bit at the moment. The past couple of years have been good with lots of openings and nearly everyone recruiting at some point, some of the bigger locos have been recruiting on a continual basis. However easyJet hasn't recruited for a while, although there is continual expansion planned in Europe and recruitment planned for next year. Ryanair are still expanding, and BA are still recruiting. This is just to name a few. So it certainly isn't too bleak.
However, there is substantial tightening of belts going on at my airline at the moment, and if the US economy continues to wobble, there will probably be more to come.
There is no shortage of 200hr pilots with no multi-crew/commercial experience. The old hands will tell you there never has been and never will be. There is I understand, a growing shortage of experienced commanders for training roles. So yes there is a demand for pilots, but that demand depends entirely on your experience and probably on whether you are rated and current on a jet.
Keep an eye on places like China and India. Not quite the EU I know, but there is huge economic growth forecast for both those areas. Europe is a tough one to call at the moment.
11th Oct 2007, 16:57
So basically right now to get a decent crack at the whip, we're talking 500hrs multi crew heavy jet and a current TR?
(Got 1000+, about 750 multi crew FARS 23 aircraft in commercial op and 800 MEP, but not the heavy or a TR...not quite sure where I stand with that! - damn!)