Issues at SpiceJet

[blandjet]

This letter was sent to the EVP of Flight ops and head of HR in response to a poorly worded letter announcing pay and perk increases for line captains while gradually decreasing the same of the First Officers.

I implore all captains, current and prospective, to support us in our cause for a just working environment.

MODS: Advanced apologies for forum rule violation. An anonymous alias is imperative because there are severe repercussions for any dissenting opinion.


Dear Sirs,

The mood and work environment in Spicejet is getting acrimonious as we speak. The tipping point as far as I am concerned has to be this badly conceived and worded email glorifying the decisions made to cater to the whims and fancies of a select few who have the clout and leverage to negotiate and secure their demands.

It's ironic and insulting how you have lauded the contribution of 'pilots' in the airline. Where do the First Officers fit into this picture. Since joining this airline I have seen a slow, steady gradual decline in the perks, benefits and allowances received by the first officers. You have gladly increased the pay of line captains without a single thought to the plight of the F/O's.

1. The biggest grudge now is the moving of the F/o's to guest houses or sub standard (m)hotels. You have the audacity to do this while upgrading the allowances of captains. Splitting up the F/D the way you have will lead to a fractious operating environment.

2. Gradual decline of pay and perks for trainee F/O's and line F/O's- You have reduced the pay and perks enjoyed by us and there seems to be no end in sight. The elimination of ACM privileges for trainee F/O's has been one of the most short sighted decisions made by management. In a classroom environment environment where the pressure is on these young guys and girls to make the grade you have removed some perks which can relieve the pressure on the trainees. If they have an opportunity to visit their relatives to de stress from the pressure cooker scenario why would you not facilitate this. Management exists to direct and lead their staff by giving them all the tools at their disposal. You had a powerful tool for outstation trainess to get out of town and get a breather from a very tough and challenging course.

3. In the minutes of the meeting you have explicitly stated that pay is attached primarily to SUPPLY AND DEMAND. This ad hoc attitude only exposes your weakness as an indecisive management team who is reactive rather proactive to market conditions. F/O's are constantly reminded that they are a dispensable utility and can be censured or dismissed with no ramifications to company operations. This abuse of power will only rattle us further and there is a constant fear of future erosion of working terms and conditions.

The minutes of the meeting were sent to ALL pilots. I see ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for this action. If the F/O's don't see an ounce of benefit from this ad hoc meeting why do we need to hear about the 'great achievements' of the flight operations management team. HR... are you listening? We DO NOT want to hear about all the upgrades to the terms and conditions of the captains while we are ridiculed into submission.

I implore all the captains check, line, expat, local, new, old to please standup for us F/O's. This constant decline does not bode well for the future. Such a short sighted approach to cost 'management' will only lead to further dissent.

I have to use an anonymous name because we all know the ramifications of such an opinion in our company. I apologise for slighting anybody but things are getting out of hand and certain issues need to be addressed.

Thank you.

A concerned Spicejet First Officer.

[bacou]

:ok:
Sub standard conditions will mean sub standard FOs with a need for expensive training and a lot of staff rotation.
All those with enough hours and able to pass a sim check during an interview will go elsewhere.
You shed some light on working conditions at Spice jet and I presume I'm going to avoid sending my application before being line captain :):):)

[blandjet]

Seems like the only way to get into any airline. All the manpower for the left seat is being met by expats right now.

NOT EVEN ONE local captain has decided to join SpiceJet. Pretty soon expats will outnumber the local captains (if they haven't already)putting further strain on their already stretched finances. Is there something the locals know or see that's wrong with this management that the expats don't? I'd dig a little deeper before joining these guys. When I joined them their modus operandi was LCC but not with the flight crew. But now they are making an about face on this sales pitch.

Don't get me wrong, it would be foolish to assume that we should be able to survive with local crew only. But when expats become your ONLY source of hiring rather than them being a form of backup or augmentation you need to sit down and re evaluate your strategy and how you are perceived in the market.

[Nevrekar]

DEC's are hired because there are no available local candidates. It's that simple. The moment that situation changes we expats will be thanked for our service and shown the door. We are all aware of that and perhaps this is why most expats view the airline differently than local hires. We don't have as much vested in the airline. Here today, gone tommorrow, wearing another uniform in another part of the world. It's the reality of contract flying. We are also a disposable commodity only courted primarily because of need. This is purely supply and demand. Airlines have to offer us perks to get us to come whether its to India, China or Korea or the ME. Why leave your home country otherwise? There has to be an incentive. Most of us have been around a while with 15-20 years or more of airline experience. We do strive to be professionals regardless of our employer or geographic region of employment.
To the best of my knowledge Indian Captain's are not making any less than the expat Capts when you consider the entire pay package (retirement etc).
I sincerely doubt that hiring an expat is putting any additional strain on finances. Not hiring any more expats coupled with lack of Indian Captains simply means the airline will stagnate and not be competitive in the market.
My advice to an Indian Pilot--Fly as much as you can, complete all your training and exams, get your ATP and your command. When you do my seat is there for the taking and I won't begrudge you that right. It's your country /airline and the future is yours. Best wishes.

[rajchid26]

well said anand,of the airlines that i hav served in our country;jati has the unique distinction of picking up the phone and is polite enough to reply to ur call.he WILLNOT obviously agree with u always.happy landings

[blandjet]

Nevrekar,
I have to beg to differ with you on this point. Discussing emolument details on a public forum is not prudent but a chat with management in this regard should dispel any doubts. It is a well known fact (myth, maybe) that expats are paid more than locals.
You have said yourself that expats need to be induced into leaving their home countries for foreign shores. The choice of inducement of Indian airlines is financial. So yes, as a whole expats are paid more. The only interesting fact I'd like to share is that the company's share of retirement fund comes from our salary. So they are not really paying for it.:ouch:
Again, don't perceive this as a point of chagrin. We need you guys a lot more than you need us and are willing to pay for it. At the operational level you guys bring a wealth of knowledge and experience which prevents inbreeding of concepts and ideas within Indian aviation. There is unanimous agreement among the F/O's at SG that expats are fun to fly with. I personally soak in every word and action you guys have to offer because it's literally out of the box.

[Nevrekar]

I was not aware that the retirement was taken from salary and not from company funds. My previous company put in 12% of gross every month. We had the option of putting in additional amounts within IRS limits. You have to remember that many of these issues are "time related." As Spicjet matures things will change, hopefully for the better. If it does not then at the 5 year mark (bond) everyone will start to leave for greener pastures and no one will want to join because of the bad press. However, the market will be flooded with F/O's and anyone with 250 hrs will be willing to "fly for food" to get into a B737 or Airbus cockpit.
On another more positive note for expat Capts, the hotel issue in Delhi seems to have been resolved. Per a company email, we have signed a long term contract with the Taj in Delhi for Capts. New Capts have shifted there.

[captshekh]

"fly for food" it could soon be. That is the reality today.

Well brought out Anand.
Those who want it supported by statistics can read the paper I posted today under heading 'pilot shortage? really!!'

For the record, only 14 F/O were selected by Air India Express out of approx 200 that applied and none out of 60 odd that appeared for a job at Spicejet.

Does that sound a bell already?

[blandjet]

Wow, Things getting very bad very fast. I guess I need to lube up before I put on that uniform.:mad:

It's interesting that AIE would be that choosy considering that they are looking to SG for F/O's, expanding schedules and a/c parked on tarmac.

The media have played right into the hands of these airlines. All this hype has generated the perfect scenario for these guys. Lord knows how many poor souls are gonna end up unemployed...... again.

Time to start printing 'will fly for food' t-shirts. That should make me enough money to get out of my bond AND pay for my kids' education.:E

[Nevrekar]

The key to survival in a declining environment is to make yourself as competitive as possible. In the USA after deregulation and even just a few years ago flying jobs worth anything were not easy to come by. It was and still is highly competitive. It's not all about the hours. It's the quality of the time you have (ME/PIC/Turboppop/Jet/Military). In addition your education is also important. Major airlines in the U.S. had a requirement for a college degree. While some have since dropped that requirement, it is still one of those things that weighs in when a candidate is evaluated. When I first joined a small commuter airline back in 1989, the minimums were 1500 hrs total with 500 multi engine. That was for flying a BE-1900C. If I remember correctly it paid around $1200/month. Even so, there were hundreds of candidates trying to get hired with much more than the minimum. At my most recent airline, the average new hire pilot (F/O) had over 5,000 hrs. One important point to remember that in the USA when it comes to flying jobs at unionized airlines there is an expression "No one cares what you did before you got here except your mother."! Simply put, while your experience is important in getting you hired, you start at the bottom and work your way up. If I were to go back to my old airline after over 6 yrs of seniority (assuming they would hire me) I would be a new hire F/O again at the bottom of the list. It's all about date of hire. That is what rules the seniority list/roster,nothing else(not the relative theory ie. brother-in-law or Haldirams!). On my last month at AirTran my F/O was a splendid gentlemen who retired from DAL (early) after 23 years. He was a B-777 checkpilot and examiner and now flying for my airline as an F/O. It does not always seem fair but that's just the way the system is. And by the way F/O pay is around $35,000-40,000/yr for the first year. The only way to be hired as a Capt is to go to a new start-up airline, a non-union carrier or join an airline through their training department. A friend of mine at American Airlines flew once with a former Space Shuttle Commander who was hired by AA and now was the F/E on a B-727-200! AirTran has a former Thunderbird pilot etc etc who also started as an F/O.
My advice for a youngster getting into aviation is to also pursue a college education and advanced degree. It will help when you need to write up an airplane!! It is preferable that your degree is outside the field of aviation.
Thus if there is a market downturn you will be able to switch gears. You must have skills that are transferrable--flying an airplane does not count---you are essentially a glorified bus driver! Without being a "brown noser" absorb all you can at the airline. Enhance your qualifications with professional courses, etc etc. Build your resume and constantly say to yourself, I can learn from someone. The day you have the attitude that someone cannot teach you something new, you are doomed. Realize that you are blessed with great opportunity and make the best of it. Just ask the former military aviators the sacrifices they have made over the years with no real welcoming opportunities in civil aviation for a long time. Of course during war time as one former AF pilot eloquently stated-- everyone was quite ok with having the military guys pull chestnuts out of the fire!!

[captshekh]

Hi
I did receive your mail in my company mail box when you posted the original.
I could not reply because of the identity. I could have spoken with you personally. give me a call if that suits you.
I assure you of not exposing any names to anyone. if that puts you at ease a call is welcome and we can discuss.
As far as AIE calling for F/Os from SG is concerned, they have to train their own and it will take SOME finite time. till thet tiem they do need to make alternative arrangements. If 14 vs 200 is amusing, then the fact is that AIE at the moment needs only that many! i met a few of them at Pro IFR at Vancouver getting their Multi IFR endorsed.
See, if AIE is already insisting on Multi IFR for F/O entrants- points to the fact they are not short on applicants.
incidentally, like Anand rightly pointed out, one couldnot even dream of flying an air liner as a fresh CPL holder. S/he had to rough it on side lines to build up experience to get an entry in to airlines.
While the grass may look greener on the other side, the queue starts at the bottom and one has to work the difficult way-- all the way upwards.
So make the best of lucky break that has been provided by the rapid expansion and keep your feet firmly planted on ground.
You will have your time too. Avaition is known to provide 'see saw' effect the most.
Cheers and Happy flying.

[purr]

Well, I hope things get better for the spice jet pilots if they dont there are other airlines .:cool: