What happens to Flying pay when...

[AHQHI656SQN]

I'm on enhanced rate flying pay. If I sign off, what rate of flying pay do I get from PVR date to getting out?

PS. I'm asking for a mate. ;)

[Ernesto Guevara]

Hi,

The info I recently read stated that anyone who PVR'd would suffer a drop of 50% in any specialist pay recieved immediately.

My understanding is that PVR is different to signing off post 22 or signing off as part of an open engagement with 12 months notice.

So if "your mate" is to PVR then there is no doubt his enhanced would drop to 50% post signing off.

I am awaiting some clarification on the PVR/Signing off issue from a friend at the moment who firmly believes the two are different and claims he has the paperwork to prove it.

hope that helps

Che'

[vortexadminman]

Depends what it is this month, sometimes Flight pay is for your time in seat and having been about a bit accruing a fair bit knowledge, sometimes it's retention, some times its incentive (to stay flying not just in mob) last version I heard was it is retention pay so why don't they call it that. Think now they chop it to 50% can't see how or why as your still doing the job.

[Mr C Hinecap]

It is paid as retention. If you have chucked your paperwork in, it isn't retaining you. So it goes.

[Marly Lite]

As far as I understand it, you get 1/2 your current rate.

As opposed to the old system where you dropped a band. All came in with JPA/AFPension 05 a bloke in the pub told me.

[Sloppy Link]

The other gem I understand happens is if you are on PES(A)/PA (depending on service) and have been on it for 5 years or more and then PVR, you automatically revert to normal rates of pay. On normal rates of pay and PVR, you flying pay is cut by half. This only applies if you PVR, terminating your service upon completion of a commission or tranche of service attracts no such penalties. Bu&&ers.

[L J R]

Sloppy,

Do you have a refernce for the PVR when PA > 5 Yr bit...?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Unless my memory fails me it was in the original terms that came with the offer for PA. If you pvr or, god forbid permanently lose your med cat you automatically revert to original terms of service with the financial penalty that either situation entails.

The other fly in the ointment is that for those of us who took the gamble and opted for PA along with Pension 05 the loss of med cat could really bite us in the bum :eek:

[Sloppy Link]

Along with Seldom, I recall it from the original offer. To date, I would wager that no-one has come accross this yet but soon people with 5 years on the scheme will be looking to leave.

[L J R]

If that is the case - why does the pension calculator, which specifies PA & joining date AND asks if your departure date is a PVR 'seemingly' does not take the pension reversion to another payscale.....?

[VinRouge]

just fail the new fitness test a couple of times and refuse to go to remedial. At least that way, you dont get half your flying pay cut!!! they are paying you to get chucked out now, its BRILLIANT!

[Doors Off]

Take the option Vin Rouge Highlights, we can learn a lot from the younger generation:hmm:

[VinRouge]

Correct me if I am wrong though, the MOD cant take a pension off you (as a punishment say) that you have already earned, thus, any discharge as being a result of being a porker and refusing to do anything about it shouldnt have any effect on your final pension? I dont make the rules, I just see through the madness of the scheme we currently have in place. Im sure others do too...

[r2_unit]

It is paid as retention. If you have chucked your paperwork in, it isn't retaining you. So it goes.

Hinecap,

That chip giving you a bit of shoulder ache is it fella?

;)

[LFFC]

Use the pension calculator and feed in several scenarios. The answers that it gives seem to be quite clear; here's a summary:

If you're on the PA spine and the new (2005) pension scheme, you'll retire at 55 with a cracking pension - maybe more that a Wg Cdr's. PVR and you will not suffer a drop in pay (because you do not receive flying pay) and your pension will be based on your last year's salary. Moreover, looking at the examples that I've run, it doesn't appear to be necessary to spend 5 years as PA before you get the PAS pension - even if you PVR.

If you're on the PA spine and the old (1975) pension scheme, you'll retire at 55 with a pension that is slightly better than your peers on the Career Spine. If you PVR and haven't been on the PAS for 5 years, you'll revert to Career Spine salary, loose half of your flying pay until you leave and receive a Career Spine pension.

The bottom line is that the PA Spine coupled with the old pension scheme doesn't really offer much. You'll only be a winner if you're on the new pension scheme.

[Cheshire Cat]

L J R, the reference doc is JSP754 Edition 6. The rules haven't changed since edition 3 which replaced AP3392 with the intro of JPA. The following should answer your concerns:

Premature Voluntary Retirement

05.0621. The pay of PAS personnel will not reduce on approval of an application for premature voluntary retirement (PVR).

Pensions

05.0622. Under AFPS 75, pensions for PAS personnel will be enhanced by adding a daily supplement to the standard representative rank based pension that an individual is entitled to on leaving the Services. For RAF PAS OF2s, this will be the standard Specialist Aircrew (SA) representative rank based pension and for RAF PAS OF3s this will be the standard CS representative rank based pension. For RN and Army PAS/PES(A) OF2s and OF3s this will be the CS standard representative rank based pension. The supplements will be calculated each year to reflect the pension headroom differential between the normal maximum representative pay rate for rank and the maximum pay point on the PAS that an individual can reach. The appropriate daily supplement will be earned for each day of service on the PAS, provided that a minimum of 5 years paid and pensionable service on PAS terms has been given before retirement. The pension supplements are promulgated annually by Directed letter.

05.0623. RAF PAS OF2s who exit the Service prior to giving the requisite 5 years of service on the PAS will receive the standard SA representative pension based on rank without any supplements. RN and Army PAS/PES(A) OF2s who exit the Service prior to giving the requisite 5 years of service on the PAS/PES(A) will receive the standard CS representative rank based pension. PAS/PES(A) OF3s who exit the Service prior to giving the requisite 5 years of Service on the PAS/PES(A) will receive the standard CS representative rank based pension.

05.0624. Pensions for those serving under AFPS 05 will be based on the final pensionable salary; there are no supplements payable under AFPS 05.

Personally I have 'set' my PVR date after 5 yrs as PA. The online calculator does not work for this situation. The pension prediction from Kentigern House was within a few £s of my own calculation of service and supplement rates. Bottom line -no penalty for PVR after 5 years service on AFPS75.

As an aside, I will greatly miss all the excellent friends and colleagues that it has been my good fortune to work with over the years but I am being 'forced' to leave for all the good reasons that have been eloquently stated on other threads.

CC

[vecvechookattack]

The whole cutting flying pay on PVR is a load of rubbish

No it is not. If the extra pay is failing to retain you then why should you receive it?


If anything the new rule pushes more people out at option points

Thats why they are called option points. The MOD don't offer "options" points because they are being nice and fluffy to you, they want and expect you to leave. If everyone decided they wanted to stay in at the option point we would be overloaded.

[LFFC]

The MOD don't offer "options" points because they are being nice and fluffy to you, they want and expect you to leave. If everyone decided they wanted to stay in at the option point we would be overloaded. Today 20:35

I think you'll find that they want and expect some of you to leave. The trick is to manage the ratio of those that leave to those that stay. JTO's point about the flying pay cut being a disincentive to staying is very valid!

[zedder]

At the moment I think they actually need some to stay. The frontline where I am is certainly the most diluted that I have seen it in 20yrs+ on the fleet. The problem seems to be that not many are staying. As an example figure apparantly bandied around by one 'desk', 38 out of 41 at/approaching option points are leaving.

[VinRouge]

One person wont stop the ship sinking I am afraid. And unless something drastic is done soon, we will reach (if we already havent) the point of no return. Unfortunately, it takes a serious flying accident before we will realise the error of our ways...:ugh:

[mutleyfour]

One thing that seems obvious here is that all 3 services are suffering shortages in most branches, not just Aircrew. Yet all three services seem to be doing next to nothing to address it, unless you include the very badly judged Council Tax issue.

In these days of Civillian Contractors how long might it be before Op Herrick aircrew posts go out to tender?