Fast jet experience of a lifetime

[luffers79]

Surely this cant have happened. No pilot I ever knew would have ruined - what should have been - the most Fantastic experience of a lifetime in this manner.?? (Kick him off the squadron !!).


Below is an article written by Rick Reilly of Sports Illustrated. He details his experiences when given the opportunity to fly in a F-14 Tomcat. If you aren't laughing out loud by the time you get to "Milk Duds," your sense of humor is seriously broken.

Someday you may be invited to fly in the back-seat of one of your country's most powerful fighter jets. Many of you already have . John Elway, John Stockton, Tiger Woods to name a few If you get this opportunity, let me urge you, with the greatest sincerity...
Move to Guam.
Change your name.
Fake your own death!Whatever you do .Do Not Go!!!I know. The U.S. Navy invited me to try it. I was thrilled. I was pumped. I was toast! I should've known when they told me my pilot would be Chip (Biff) King of Fighter Squadron 213 at Naval Air Station Oceana in Virginia Beach.

Whatever you're thinking a Top Gun named Chip (Biff) King looks like, triple it. He's about six-foot, tan, ice-blue eyes, wavy surfer hair, finger-crippling handshake -- the kind of man who wrestles dyspeptic alligators in his leisure time. If you see this man, run the other way. Fast.

Biff King was born to fly. His father, Jack King, was for years the voice of NASA missions. ("T-minus 15 seconds and counting ..." Remember?) Chip would charge neighborhood kids a quarter each to hear his dad. Jack would wake up from naps surrounded by nine-year-olds waiting for him to say, "We have a liftoff"

Biff was to fly me in an F-14D Tomcat, a ridiculously powerful $60 million weapon with nearly as much thrust as weight. Not unlike Colin Montgomerie, I was worried about getting airsick, so the night before the flight I asked Biff if there was something I should eat the next morning.

"Bananas," he said.

"For the potassium?" I asked.
"No," Biff said, "because they taste about the same coming up as they do going down."

The next morning, out on the tarmac, I had on my flight suit with my name sewn over the left breast. (No call sign -- like Crash or Sticky or Leadfoot . But, still, very cool.) I carried my helmet in the crook of my arm, as Biff had instructed. If ever in my life I had a chance with Nicole Kidman, this was it.

A fighter pilot named Psycho gave me a safety briefing and then fastened me into my ejection seat, which, when employed, would "egress" me out of the plane at such a velocity that I would be immediately knocked unconscious

Just as I was thinking a bout aborting the flight, the canopy closed over me, and Biff gave the ground crew a thumbs-up. In minutes we were firing nose up at 600 mph. We leveled out and then canopy-rolled over another F-14.


Those 20 minutes were the rush of my life. Unfortunately, the ride lasted 80. It was like being on the roller coaster at Six Flags Over Hell. Only without rails. We did barrel rolls, snap rolls, loops, yanks and banks. We dived, rose and dived again, sometimes with a vertical velocity of 10,000 feet per minute. We chased another F-14, and it chased us.

We broke the speed of sound. Sea was sky and sky was sea. Flying at 200 feet we did 90-degree turns at 550 mph, creating a G force of 6.5, which is to say I felt as if 6.5 times my body weight was smashing against me, thereby approximating life as Mrs. Colin Montgomerie.

And I egressed the bananas.

And I egressed the pizza from the night before.

And the lunch before that.

I egressed a box of Milk Duds from the sixth grade.

I made Linda Blair look polite. Because of the G's, I was egres sing stuff that never thought would be egressed.

I went through not one airsick bag, but two.

Biff said I passed out. Twice. I was coated in sweat. At one point, as we were coming in upside down in a banked curve on a mock bombing target and the G's were flattening me like a tortilla and I was in and out of consciousness, I realized I was the first person in history to throw down.

I used to know 'cool'. Cool was Elway throwing a touchdown pass, or Norman making a five-iron bite. But now I really know 'cool'. Cool is guys like Biff, men with cast-iron stomachs and freon nerves. I wouldn't go up there again for Derek Jeter's black book, but I'm glad Biff does every day, and for less a year than a rookie reliever makes in a home stand.

A week later, when the spins finally stopped, Biff called. He said he and the fighters had the perfect call sign for me. Said he'd send it on a patch for my flight suit.

What is it? I asked.

"Two Bags."

[normally right blank]

Or maybe that was just the right medicine for an irritating sports journo'? Nobody "forced" him into that backseat.
But he wrote a funny story, I admit ;)

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Never flown with a frontline RAF unit so I don't know how they work media flights, but have flown quite a lot with the US and, with only one exception, every fast jet sortie I have been on has taken on an operational flavour (sometimes with a short break to get photos).

Why? Because they still have to get some training value out of the sortie, even if there is a journo in the back. With cutbacks in annual flying hours, this is now ever more important.

As for this journo, it was his choice to go and I am glad he did: I loved the story.

Fire the pilot? You have to be kidding!

[Tigs2]

luffers
anything less would NOT have been the flight of a lifetime! Do you want to ride in an F14 or a 747? The choice is yours, but for an hour one will cost you $1000 the other would cost $45 000, i think the journo got value for money:ok: Good job he didn't get the cowboy of the squadron!!

[soddim]

If this is authentic let it be a lesson to all who have the opportunity to impress an ab initio as a passenger in a high performance aircraft. The sortie is theirs - for their benefit, not an opportunity to show off or to look big. I have met many people who received less than they deserved in their trip of a lifetime and each time I concluded what a selfish pilot they must have flown with.

[Tigs2]

Soddim
If this is authentic let it be a lesson to all who have the opportunity to impress an ab initio as a passenger in a high performance aircraft. The sortie is theirs - for their benefit, not an opportunity to show off or to look big. I have met many people who received less than they deserved in their trip of a lifetime and each time I concluded what a selfish pilot they must have flown with.
It sounds like a normal Combat training sortie to me, bit of fighting , bit of low level, bit of range work. What exactly are you objecting to?? The sortie sounds straightforward, are you getting caught up by the journos prose?? Can you really rely on the Journos expertise?? Not a move in the description of the flight I wouldn't expect in a normal sortie of this type. Bye the way the sortie is not for THEIR benifit. They (the lucky ones) are permitted to ride in the back of a training sortie, which is solely for the training benifit of the pilot. It will come out of his training hours at the end of the month, simple.

[Shot to the Beach]

The sortie is theirs - for their benefit, not an opportunity to show off or to look big.
The sortie is never theirs! Maybe, just maybe it was a normal sortie in a Tomcat - I've had a few (hundred) and even the most mundane are sphincter-clinching for the un-initiated. Maybe a little respect is due to FJ guys for working under such conditions.
Don't change your name...choose life!

[PumpCockMixMags]

Tigs

I have flown plenty of passengers and not on a airliner before you ask and non have puked. I am proud of that and it gives the RAF great PR. The majority of those sorties were flown for the benefit of the passengers, civilian or military and they were left feeling elated by a few benign moves like loops and aileron rolls. I assume that the USN don't have the pax flying limits that the RAF impose ie, 4.5g and 6000ft/min ROD if they do then BIFF is playing a seriously dicey game. Biff seems to be a very apt callsign.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

That was as funny as a funny thing.............however, and it comes as no big surprise it was somewhat spoiled by the pomposity of the subsequent posts, lighten up chaps :rolleyes:

[ChasetheAce]

You were right, by the time i got to milk dudds i was crippled. It seems to me from reading it that the pilot just performed what i would class as routine manouvers ( my opinion not meant to offend or irritate anyone ), and the journo just put his spin on it like evry other journo does.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Soddim

The US has two different types of fast jet pax flights: fam and incentive.

Fam rides are always of an operational nature and the pax are given to understand this prior to the sortie - these are the usual type of ride for journos.

Incentive rides are those earned by crew chiefs, cadets and other worthy individuals, and these are the ones where the pax gets to fly the jet and choose where to draw the line on manouvers and g loading.

Given the distinction between the two, and based on the fact that this guy was almost certainly being given a fam ride, I think that your comments are overly harsh.

In addition, I have heard of pax who have not even made it out of the circuit before they were sick, but you can hardly blame the pilot for being 'selfish' for that!

[Alber Ratman]

A Pax in an RAF FJ aircraft should not be placed under a "G" loading of 6.5 and the rules are explict on this. The limit is 2/3rds of the last value. Not many of the last Jag passengers managed to keep the contents of their stomach down, such being the nature of the forces and motions involved in flying a FJ to the inexperinced

However, it sounds like the yank Jock was purely out to break this bloke...:ok:

[normally right blank]

Ewan Whosearmy:
What kind of "waiver" would you sign before a trip in a U.S. fast jet?
Another thing (fact): A very large proportion of "unaccustomed" FJ passengers will get sick after 30 - 40 min.s of jet flight. (Can't remember the actual number of minutes).
I've met quite a number of fast jet pilots/aircrew that had to overcome airsickness - (from the bad smell of the rubber oxygen mask,... whatever.)
RAF Institute of Aviation Medicine? - don't they "work" such cases?

[soddim]

Tigs 2
I object to pilots who do nothing to ensure that their passenger enjoys the experience of their flight.

'Normal training sortie' in a two seat fighter aircraft is simply not possible without the back seater so why not use the trip for the benefit of the pax?

[Tigs2]

blah blah blah!

As Seldom says Lighten up everyone:ugh:

[brickhistory]

Lighten up folks! Do a google for a Dave Barry story that was very similiar. Or comedian Bill Engval's great 8 minute bit on his Thunderbird ride. The writer is making his point for effect, not to be taken literally.

or this of mine from some years back (ewan, pardon the re-run here):

Careful What You Wish For

Pinned by the crushing G-force, I could only move my eyeballs as the black crosses of the Luftwaffe fighter flicked by overhead. Helpless, I waited for the end.
The preceding wasn’t an event that happened in the flak-filled skies of Europe 60 years ago, but over the stark, sun baked desert of New Mexico of ten years past. The end wasn’t the pounding of machine gun and cannon fire into my cockpit but the worst airplane ride my stomach ever flew.
Glasses at an early age prevented me from becoming a fighter pilot but I had gotten close to the action as a ground control intercept (GCI) officer in the US Air Force. As a GCI controller, I used my mobile, tactical radar system to see a 360-degree or “God’s eye” view of a chunk of sky. I could then verbally “paint” a picture of that sky to a pilot entering combat.
A third or fourth generation fighter like the F-15, F-16, or even the F/A-22 can see with its radar only about 60 degrees either side of its nose. Using a data link can expand that envelope, but going “heads down” during a dogfight is a good way to take a missile in the lips. Hence the advantage GCI and AWACS (an airborne GCI platform) brings.
At Holloman Air Force Base in the early 1990s, I was the Chief of Training for my squadron. As an angle to work a backseat ride, I approached my bosses with the “if I can understand the pilot’s environment I can provide a better service” rationale. To my surprise, they agreed.
I soon accomplished the requirements necessary to jump in a jet - altitude chamber, ejection seat training (“If you hear EJECT, EJECT, EJECT and your are still there by the final EJECT, you will be logging solo time!”), and getting kitted out with flight gear.
I then got on the schedule for a 2v2 dissimilar air combat (DACT) mission. I would be the “Bravo” or backseater in one of two AT-38Bs going against two Luftwaffe F-4 Phantoms. We would be “red air” or the bad guys to the Germans as the “blue air” good guys.
The AT-38B is an upgraded variant of the Air Force’s venerable supersonic trainer, the T-38. By adding a gunsight and a centerline hardpoint that could carry either a gun pod or a practice bomb rack, the B model made an effective fighter lead-in aircraft for young pilots just out of training headed to flying the afore-mentioned F-15 or F-16. Nicknamed the “Smurf jet” due to its rippled blue camouflage, the AT-38B was essentially a jet-powered P-51. With no radar or other advanced avionics, it just went fast and turned well enough to tangle with the F-4.
The German Air Force had long conducted flight training in the American Southwest to take advantage of the excellent flying weather. At Holloman, a joint USAF-Luftwaffe squadron trained newly minted fighter pilots in the “Rhino’s” capabilities as well as highly experienced F-4 crews undergoing advanced Weapon School instruction. With all this flying, my GCI site stayed busy with our customers.
The morning of the big day arrived. I briefed with the crews, but this time as one of them and not as the GCI “fifth” wingman. The flight lead covered all the administration (motherhood) stuff - start engines, taxi, take-off times, altitude blocks for each side and the other details required to ensure the safety of the flight.
Next we discussed the tactics we’d perform as red air. We’d fly formations and maneuvers akin to what the former Soviet Union flew in order to provide a realistic “look” for the Luftwaffe students. The limitation for this flight, however, was only using visual weapons, guns and AIM-9 Sidewinders. The F-4 could carry a radar-guided missile, the AIM-7 Sparrow, but shooting us beyond visual range (BVR) wouldn’t be any fun and wouldn’t allow the two sides to mix it up close. Obviously, all shots would be simulated. Realistic training is good, but real explosions can get very expensive very quickly!
We stepped, cranked engines, taxied, and launched as per the brief. I was in heaven as the flight took off and joined in close echelon right formation. Looking at our wingman, I could see his “Darth Vader-ish” helmet and oxygen mask and knew that I looked just the same. I felt invincible being in such company. Maybe this feeling is part of the appeal of flying fighters.
After each flight went to their respective distant corners of the airspace, we went through our g-awareness turns, configured the switches for air-to-air and then it’s “FIGHT’S ON!”
Sitting at my radarscope on the ground, the action of an engagement seems to take several minutes. The glowing symbols of the aircraft inch slowly down the scope as I follow the maneuvers and call them out to my aircraft.
Actually riding in the jet and the forty-mile separation closed in seconds. Before I knew it, we heard the “merged” call from our controller. Merged meant that the disparate blips on his scope had merged into one blob. From experience, my pilot knew that the call often lagged by several seconds to the reality in the air. Sure enough, a quick look over his left shoulder and he glimpsed the gray F-4s slashing past overhead.
A mighty tug and pull on the stick in pursuit and my world in the back seat contracted. Being tall and skinny as well as not being acclimated to pulling “g’s,” I grayed out. I could hear everything but until my pilot unloaded the jet, I wasn’t going to see anything.
After some swirling around the sky, none of which I could reconstruct if I tried, we knocked it off and reset. Both flights turned for their points to set up for the next fight.
Regaining my vision, my gastrointestinal tract let me know it was NOT happy at the treatment. I unclipped the side of my mask, loosened my shoulder straps and reached for my Mark I barf bag.
As I heaved, I thought I had more time before the next engagement. I was therefore totally unprepared for the next “merged” call. With my mask loose and the preoccupation with examining my stomach’s contents, I must have missed the “fight’s on” broadcast.
This call went the same as the last fight. The same pull and hard climbing turn produced the same “g’s” and loss of vision. Unfortunately, with my shoulder straps loose, I was pinned to my lap by the crushing force. My now-filled ex-lunch sack plummeted to the cockpit floor and sprayed everywhere. I couldn’t see, I couldn’t sit upright and I didn’t think it could get any worse.
I was wrong. Since I was bent forward, my skull was actually in the way of the stick. My pilot, engrossed in the air combat, didn’t know of my predicament and I sure wasn’t going to mention it to him! Instead, realizing he wasn’t getting full aft movement from the stick, he kept trying to brute force it back. My face repeatedly kept that from happening.
So here I am, sick, unable to sit up, stepping in goo, and getting beaten up by the jet. I finally admitted to God that I was ready to give up. I began praying for the gas gauge to sink to “bingo” level so we could go home. Finally, thankfully, enough go-juice converted from liquid into noise and thrust and we could go home.
We rejoined, entered the pattern for the break to landing, touched down, and wound up back in the chocks. As the engines unspooled and we raised the canopy, the crew chief recoiled from my appearance and the aroma wafting from the cockpit floor. Ducking back down the ladder, he reappeared with a bucket of soapy water and a sponge.
I, with as much dignity as I could muster, cleaned up his jet before climbing down.
At the debrief, I didn’t contribute much. Following the discussion of what went right and what went wrong on our mission and how we could fix any weak areas on the next go, I still had one more task to perform. I stopped by the base Class Six (liquor) store and purchased a six-pack of malted beverage for the crew chief. I delivered it to him back at the jet where he was still hard at work getting it ready for its next go. He accepted my offering gracefully and I was finally done with my foray into “wanna be.”
I did get my ride and go fast. I did get to experience a touch of the modern fighter pilot’s environment. I’m a much better controller than a stickboy. I have never flown in a fighter again.

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Pah! Twenty minutes? I can make my pax spew during taxi :=

[L J R]

Getting out of the Sim while it is still 'inflight' will throw anyone.


.

Health Warning - Ensure Sim is Parked, but leave video motion going.

[Phil_R]

To be fair this is not the first time I have heard tell of a fast jet pilot taking malevolent glee in making his passenger grey out, pass out, throw up, and generally have a **** time... Being 6'4 and skinny with congenitally low blood pressure I'm sure I'd probably sleep through most of it and these factors combine to make the prospect unattractive in the extreme.

Phil

[tacr2man]

A few years ago in Australia, made a visit to a local well known aero club, whilst doing some heli work. Having a bit of a yarn with some fellow aviators ''Biff'' comes up to the group, gets told that the ''Pom'' is thinking about getting a ppl . He immediately as expected offers to give me a fam flight as he was just heading out.
Well he put it thru everything he could think of, the more I said this was really interesting the harder he tried . It was a pretty warm day as usual in OZ by the time we landed he was wringing wet.
We all thought couldnt happen to a nicer chap.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

NRB

It's normally a disclaimer that says your relatives can not sue the DoD in the event that you are killed. It's not always presented for signature, and some Air Forces (the Swiss, for example) don't appear to have such a waiver.

[hibbs007]

"A Pax in an RAF FJ aircraft should not be placed under a "G" loading of 6.5 and the rules are explict on this. The limit is 2/3rds of the last value."

Really - take a 21 year old SAC Liney ... me, 1 Group Captain (not far from promotion and leaving the station) and a Hawk needing a full air test. Up to 44,000ft …. Mach 0.98 downhill …. 4 turn spin to the right … 4 turn spin to the left ….. whilst trying to write down figures from the front seat and throw up at the same time. Fly it from the rear seat, cycle gear / flaps etc. Down to low level, 8g somewhere near Llanwrst – ‘that really hurt’, out to sea low level max chat, test airbrake into circuit and land.

Trip time 59 minutes, had to be helped exit the jet, felt ill for 4 days. :uhoh:

That is exactly as I remember it, it was 1991 and I hope the limits quoted above are enforced to stop young men thinking they can handle anything ‘old man – harry staish’ can throw at them.

If you are out there, Ex Gp Cpt Andy Griffin thank you, it was one hell of a first, of many, fast jet trips. :ok:

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Ditto. Flown the Hawk with the RAF twice and exceeded 6.5Gs each time.

[Farrell]

Am trying to arrange a flight in a fast jet over here at the moment.

Have been told Hawk or perhaps F-16 if I was extremely lucky but we'll see how it goes.

[WannaBeCiv]

I just want to clarify a few points for those currently being scared off ever going in a FJ. This applies to the RAF - the USAF appear to be completely diffeerent.

If you get a pax ride, the limitations are quite stringent (g, rate of climb/descent, no low-level, no ACT etc). Most pilots will fly in a professional manner and, despite what some have said here, the trip is almost always for the benefit of the pax. NOT the pilot. From plenty of experience, there are extremely few (if any) people who could go from no flying experience to a full-up mission without feeling very crap and/or being physically sick. As someone else said, 30-40 mins is about right but as the trip will probably be longer the pilot will normally go on a tour - maybe a PD to the pax's last/next station, maybe see some well known sights from the air - primarily guided by what the pax wants.

Of course none of this means that you cant wind it up a bit - but towards the end of the trip is much better and only if the pax wants to. A pax trip is the time to wind down the testosterone and give someone the trip of a lifetime that they will never forget - for the right reasons.

If you fly on an airtest it is as part of the crew, not as a pax (they aren't allowed on full airtests last time I looked). Groundcrew often qualify under different cateegories than basic pax, so different limitations can be applied, ditto those with an aircrew medical (heavies, helos, holding officers).

For the non-aircrew please do not be put off by some of the posts in this thread - the vast majority of pax pilots (you have to be specifically nominated and qualified) will give you an extremely enjoyable and unforgettable experience. If you ever get a chance, grab it!

[Diedtrying]

Jeez, what are they whining about, at least they got to go up. 9 sodding years as an RAF Fireman and all I got was a bleedn 6 hour flight in a Andover doing calibration checks somewhere up north. I would give my right tes>>>>le (and prolly my stomach contents :ok:) to go up in a fast jet.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Going back afew years now, 1977-1981 to be precise at CFS Cranwell I was but a simple Rigger on the line. I managed to blag my first trip in a JP5a for the morning weather check. Loved every second of it which led to me getting on every type of sortie possible, Wx Checks, Air Tests and as much Low Level and Aeros as possible. Got around 20 hours in the end and only GLOC'd once on a low level student tail chase from one side of Scotland to the other then back up Loch Ness at 250' (Ish :)). We were on Det at Kinloss at the time, all I remember was the QFI saying "I have control" and then lots of 'g'. Remember waking up thinking I was in my grandmas kitchen (Strange thing the mind) Later saw 6.5-7 on the accelerometer. I would not have changed one thing on any of the sorties I did, never threw up and had great fun. The QFI I had most fun with was Flt Lt Dave Patterson, who I believe ended up on Buccs and the UTP whose name escapes me. And yes, before anyone pipes up, I know the JP wasn't a FJ and that it was variable noise constant thrust, or lack thereof.........was great fun though.

[Ghostflyer]

It could have been worse than a sports journo. When I was on my first tour on XI, I confided to the boss that one of those scary army nurses at Akrotiri wanted to get in my pants. I asked for some fatherly advice about how to avoid her and he passed on some top tips. Imagine my surprise when my pax the next day had transformed from a 5' 9" brunette babe into said moose.

So I had a choice, make her barf or make her think what great guys we all were. I choose the latter and was saved by a myopic nav and 10 pints of Heiny.

Rick Reilly could write a humourous article about his mother's funeral. Take it in the spirit it was intended!


Ghost

[Tim McLelland]

I can also confirm that those quoted g limits for RAF pax flights are often very flexible!


I'm also inclined to add that if that original article was really published in a commercial magazine, the publishers ought to be ashamed of themselves. I've seen better written English from five year-olds!:)

All this reminds me of a couple of rides I scrounged off the Blue Angels a few years back. In typical American "can-do" fashion, they have a miniature TV camera attached to the instrument coaming in their T-Bird's rear cockpit, so they can produce a video for all their happy customers. Unfortunately, when the g load starts winding up past 7g, the recorder head slips of the tape and you lose the picture - so much for technology, doh! Still, this was years ago, maybe they've gone digital now?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

The common theme seems to be that no matter how sick the lucky barstewards in the back get, for them the experience as a whole gets a big big thumbs up:ok:

Been lucky enough in my time to ride in a Chipmonk, Bulldog, Jag, Hawk and Harrier and luckily never barked but even if I had it would not have stopped me coming back for more, and was a big factor when deciding on whether to try for NCA :D

[Elias]

I for one,with no military flying experience whatsoever; dare any of you Fast Jet jockeys to take me up and make me puke ( no skunks on the mask or any other dirty trick, just gravity and your 1 to 1 ratio ). I'll get my behind to any place this or the other side of the pond, and afterwards beers/milk are on me, regardless of your success.

Cheers.

[Phil_R]

> Unfortunately, when the g load starts winding up past 7g, the recorder head
> slips of the tape and you lose the picture - so much for technology, doh!
> Still, this was years ago, maybe they've gone digital now?

Digital or not it's still tape and spinning heads (or possibly flash memory, but only very very recently). However, while they fully expected this to happen when shooting the Red Arrows stuff recently, it didn't. This was with the HDCAM-SR tape format and (I believe) SRW-1 tape decks, which are usually used in no more strenuous circumstances than a camera dolly.

Phil

[hibbs007]

"Jeez, what are they whining about",

I'm not whining, ok, I was as sick as dog but my god what an experience and it didn't stop me going back for another 20+ Hawk trips, lots of helicopter hours and 1 outstanding F3 trip our of Akrotiri.

[Wee Jock McPlop]

I was very lucky to get 5 FJ trips during my time in the RAF - not a boast, just a fact. During the first four, I never got the feeling the guys were trying to make me sick - but I barfed nonetheless:yuk: The last, an F3 trip out of MPA, I could be forgiven for thinking that he might have been trying to. Suited and booted as I was in an immersion suit (with lovely thermals and woollies below), g-pants, LSJ etc. He let me know after departure that the cabin conditioner (or whatever it was called and I'm sure I'll be corrected) was stuck on hot:E Given what we were about to do, the writing was already on the wall or the barf already earmarked for the bag. Did it bother me? Not one bit. They'd (1435 Flt) had taken the trouble to fly me and I still managed to 'enjoy' the trip - including one particularly sporty snottex:eek: I even barfed when I got back into Ops - good stat:ok:

Bottom line is that if you are lucky enough to blag a trip, you should accept that the fairly alien environment you find yourself in will probably lead to you chucking up. The smells, the 'G', the mask and the rest of the kit all take a fair bit of getting used to. I don't know if many pilots deliberately set out to make people barf, but in my experience, not too much 'G' will eventually lead to you being sick. 30-40 mins into the trip does seem about right. A few lucky individuals appear to have a stronger constitution and get through it with no obvious ill effects - however I think they are in the minority.

Can FJ pilots afford to be considerate to the Pax in the back, given the pressure on FJ hours and the need to maximise the training value from every sortie? Just an open question and standing by for incoming.

[TonkaEngO]

Just an engineer's comment but.... JPs pulling 7g and Hawks 8 - on PAX trips as well!!!
Might have got away with it before fatigue meters but I don't think the riggers would be over chuffed to be doing extensive over stress checks post back seat PAX rides.

In my experience the guys q'd to fly PAX rides are ultimate professionals and never take the PAX past what he/she is comfortable with.

[Bob Viking]

I flew several pax during my time on the mighty Jag and I can honestly say I never set out to make anyone feel ill. My intention was always that they should enjoy the experience as much as possible.
Unfortunately if you're not used to it, flying in a jet (and all the factors previously mentioned) is just so alien that it's very hard for your body to put up with it!
The fact of the matter is that unless you take off and join the TACAN hold for an hour or so (even that might be too much for some!) there is no way to avoid pulling G and putting the aircraft into flight regimes that are slightly more exotic than you would experience on a Ryanair flight!
The other thing that I noticed was that you could never tell who was going to be able to handle it and who wouldn't. The biggest shock I had was a big, burly PTI who I was convinced would have a cast iron constitution was blowing chunks (sorry!) within half an hour.
Everyone I ever took flying, regardless of how many bags they filled, had the time of their life and wore a huge grin for days afterwards. I think that if you've never been up before, the sight of valley walls flashing past up close and at speed is something that'll stick with you for a long time.
In short, if you get the chance - take it. You don't know what you're missing out on!
Final point - can only vouch for my old aircraft type but Low Level IS allowed for a maximum of 30 minutes per sortie but shouldn't be generated solely for pax purposes.
BV:ok:

[Old Hairy]

From my own experience I would treat all articles written by journo's with a large pinch of salt.
1960 Honington.57 Squadron Victor.we are tasked to take a senior Sunday Express Journo.on a standard 5 hour mission. He had obviously partaken of liberal hospitality during lunch in the Mess and shortly after the 10,000ft. checks was honking like a goodun,asked if we could return as he felt very ill and unable to continue.We return to the circuit to burn off down to landing weight.He was taken to SSQ by ambulance,never to be seen again.
Imagine our surprize come Sunday to read his article,which contained references to steely eyed pilots,effortlessly flight refuelling with Valiants,Navigators dropping peas into barrels on Salisbury plain from 40,00ft. The AEO snuffing out enemy radars,and so on. This gentleman,and I use the word loosely,did'nt leave the circuit.He wrote his piece from sitting in on briefing !!!

[hibbs007]

“Just an engineer's comment but.... JPs pulling 7g and Hawks 8 - on PAX trips as well!!! Might have got away with it before fatigue meters but I don't think the riggers would be over chuffed to be doing extensive over stress checks post back seat PAX rides.”

Before fatigue meters – the Hawk does have one you know, And unlike the Tonka that can’t turn round without coming close to overstress, the limit on the Hawk (T1) is +9g, but ssshhh, because we’ve put little dayglo stickers on all the g meters so the aircrew think it’s +8!

And remember my first hawk trip as described on this thread wasn’t a pax trip but a full air test. Yes, I now know by all the rules I shouldn’t have been allowed to go (even back then) but I did and it was great. Never figured out how I got a full cat 1 medical for a year with decompression experience etc.

Signed - a current Hawk Rigger instructor.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

OH

Sounds to me like the journalist's article was good press for the RAF, and so what if it was written based on the brief? I am guessing that 48 years ago at the height of the Cold War all sorts of things were printed that people today would raise an eyebrow to. If he gave the impression that he was present throughout the flight then he deserves a kick up the arse, but that doesn't sound like the case from what you have written.

As for brandishing all journalists as liars based on a solitary incident 48 years ago, you'll find you're in good company here on PPRuNe where the supplies of salt (and spite, vitriol and prejudice) are limitless!

[NST]

I was lucky enough to fly with Cmdt CFS (ex Laarbruch Stn Cdr) when at Scampton many moons ago. Hawk trip from Scampton through Lichfield at 180 then LL through Wales and back through Lichfiled, loved every minute. I was encouraged to ask questions and was given control at certain non low level points, pilot went out of his way to make me feel part of the trip by encouraging lookout and reporting traffic at low level (can still see the Tornado that closed in from 7 o clock and went over us with a wing waggle, would have been surprised if he had missed us, it was a Reds jet) and had even given me a copy of the LFC with the route on it. I had a fantastic trip, LL was just amazing and on landing I even got a lift back in the Cmdt's car (the driver outranked me !!), I needed it as the effects of G had a marked result in that all I wanted to do was go kip for a while. Pretty sure we pulled 6g (might have been more but I greyed out then), I also got caught a few times when the G loaded up when I was looking around .. ouch.

The only aircraft that ever made me sick was the Nimrod, If I remember right it was some sort of co-ordination maneouvre where the jet was pointed to 360, 090, 180, 270 and pitched up, then down and rolled right and left at each point.

Funny how the veggie Lasagne is the same colour before and after.

[Alber Ratman]

Anybody who flew pax's before the Harrier accident with the cadet officer who was underweight (91?) will know that the regs were tightened up. My two FJs were in Jags (10 years apart). I am fortunate that I have never done sick bags. The last time was a CAS trip with continous 2-3 G on the denifition and pull up of 4.4 on the drop. We did not fly below 250 ft (to the regs). However it is up to the captain what happens :cool::cool:

[Zoom]

I agree with Soddim. The last thing I ever wanted was some poor unfortunate puking over my aeroplane.

[jez_s]

Luckily I got a trip in a Tornado in 1997 out of TTTE Cottesmore, what an experience!!
Having raised the RHAG cable so many times and watched them take off whilst sat on the rotary drum units the noise was brilliant. But to suddenly be in the back seat doing the V's to my mates in the arrestor wagon as we roared down the runway was mindblowing, the acceleration (bearing in mind these Tonkas were pylon free) was incredible it felt like the jet was squirming at the back as we accelerated but what struck me was how quiet it was (I suppose all the noise is behind you).
So off we shot up to Berwick and then low level west, luckily for me the jet was a two stick version so once we were through the very hilly bits i was allowed to fly the thing, Now I never thought in my life I would be sweeping the wings back to 45 degrees whilst sat at 500 ft doing 500Kts (I think!) flying a £21M jet!!
An Hour and a half later we broke back into the circuit over Cottesmore and by that time i had turned the air supply to my G-suit off ( found it really uncomfortable whilst we were pulling G-how strange!) but as we touched down and did the reverse thrust thing that's the point I heaved (I think it was all the sensations coming together at once!) I don't know who was greener me or my mate who watched me taxi back in.
I have to say the pilot was an absolute star, made me feel comfortable by telling me how he had banged out of a Phantom:)!! and then turning the jet upside down to point out a pig farm but never once did i feel scared or not aware of what was going on around us.
If you get the chance do it, I'm still get asked about it Ten years later and I've been out the RAF for four!

[Bob Viking]

Of course you didn't go below 250 feet!!!;)
How's life in the flatlands treating you?
BV:ok:

[Alber Ratman]

Fine Bob. Am gearing up to see the flatlands of Barsa. OCCWMF has given me all the good gen.

Beats the hell out of BAE however:ugh::ugh:

Back on topic. I sure that show of strength pass was above 250ft, Gov. Shame the Video didn't run at that point either!!:ok:

[Samuel]

1966 at Tengah and a member of 14Sqn RNZAF, I was sent up, [actually I was asked if I'd go!] to the air to ground range at Asahan for a 20 sqn [Hunter FGA9] shoot. I had a Landrover, but the 20 Sqn guys, including two pilots doing the assessments, were in a three-tonner, driven by one of them!

When we were packing up to return to Tengah,said pilots approached me and asked for a favour! As an LAC RNZAF, you should always be a bit wary when two Flying Officers ask for a favour, but all they wanted to know was could I drive a truck, and if so would I mind taking theirs back to Tengah while they sped on ahead in 'my' Landrover in order to get to a function in the Officers Mess. I'd been chatting to these two for three days, and they both seemed reasonable guys, [one was a Rhodesian as I recall], and I sensed a deal in the making. So I immedaitely agreed to what they wanted, and turned the conversation around to the possibility of a ride in the 20 Sqn T7?
Some weeks later, I had a fantastic dream flight, 30 minutes in a Hunter!

Unbloodyforgettable.

I've actually done quite a bit of flying, in a lot of different types, from a Vampire T11 and Harvard, to the back seat of a Skyhawk, but that Hunter is still up there.

Now I know you guys don't always like sharing your aeroplanes, but just think for a moment what joy it brings for those of us who didn't have the best job in the world!

[Vox Populi]

I was privileged to have four FJ trips as a journalist. One was a glorified photo op - the other three training sorties, at my request (and necessary for the report).

I was sick each time I flew, but I got on with my job and remain incredibly impressed with the pilots' professionalism and kindness to me in helping me through the worst of it, with consideration for both my stomach and my task in recording the events..

A pilot who throws the a/c around just to show off is missing an opportunity to leave the pax feeling like I do...empty of food but full of praise.

Having said that, I think the article at the top of this thread is a roundabout way of passing on to the lay reader the realities of the FJ environment...and nicely done it is.

VP

[clearfinalsno1]

Dumb question

Whilst on the subject of G's pulled, I have a question as a PPL who was lucky enough to get a Hawk pax trip recently.

Other than during the requested aeros at the end of the trip, the only significant G encountered was the run and break into the circuit. I don't really understand the necessity for this - I was told it was a good way to get airspeed down - we did a 90deg angle of bank turn, pulling at the buffet, back around into the circuit - about 2-4g and it did knock off about 90knots from memory.

When landing at a quiet airfield with no other traffic, surely the fact that we effectively fly a circuit unnecessarily before landing rather than just losing airspeed on finals negates any time saving? Also, doesn't this high rate turn risk stalling and dropping a wing close to the ground. Just questions, please don't shoot.

[normally right blank]

When possible ATC likes run in & break. It is the fastest way to get a number of "fast jets" on the runway. (And put touch & go's/rollers - or just go arounds - back into the same circuit).

Drop a wing/ stall in the break? Never heard of it.

Making the same standard type of "overhead" approach is an advantage. Note how all "Dash Ones" depict the same type of (VFR) approach.

[R J Kinloch]

I've been lucky enough to experience 2 FJ flights during my time in the RNZAF.

A Strikemaster doing gunnery and bombing. I found out that it is possible to vomit in 5.5g. I didn't know my stomach muscles were so strong.

A Skyhawk where we were the night flare bomber. Vomited again due to disorientation and vertigo.

My utmost respect goes to the aircrew who do this every day. I couldn't!

Even with the throwing up I, to this day, remember every detail of these flights and feel very privileged to have done something that 1 person in 10.000 has experienced.

[Green Flash]

Not quite FJ but (as a ground bourne back room boy) I once had 3 hours in the right hand seat of a C404 on pollution recce job. Pilot gave me the handles and levers 5 mins after t/o, flew the thing down to 400' with the SLAR man down the back calling targets (knackered by the time we got back!) and then gave it back to the pilot 5 miles finals - and promptly threw up! It's funny how having something to do keeps your breakfast under control! Ferkin brilliant trip.

[Tim McLelland]

I've been very fortunate with the number of fast jet rides I've been given over the years. Thankfully I only ever puked once and that was during a low level ACM over Cumbria with 74 Sqn when they were flying F-4J's. The one and only time that I suggested we ought to consider heading home, but my trusty pilot ignored me! *sob*

Normally, I think the more manoeuvring you do, the less time you have to think about feeling sick. Certainly, the hardest manoevring was during a very thorough demonstration of a 111 Sqn Phantom courtesy of Achie Liggott and it was too much of an attention-getter to worry about feeling ill! Likewise, lots of g keeps your mind occupied too - heaving some 7.5g turns with the Blue Angels is hard work and hardly something you could desrcibe as fun, but definitely not an environment where you'd start feeling sick - just a bit battered!

I was treated to four displays with the Red Arrows back in April in some truly foul weather (they were at their crosswind limits for two days) and there's no doubt that sitting in four different positions in their formations during flat/rolling displays in rotten weather, gives you nothing but respect for those guys. That really is hard work and mind-boggling to actually see up close. It looks like a controlled car crash and yet when you see the ground video afterwards it looks beautiful!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/Shefftim/Redarrows-1inv.jpg

[Hammer Head Too]

Lovely shot Tim !!:D
Whilst at a TWU in Wales I got thrown in the back of a Hawk to recover a jet with only one ignitor working from Kliene Brogel the day after the Ramstein disaster. In the faff of strapping in (we were up against it time wise) the G suit wasn't switched on.. high level transit, cleared for a rapid descent, got clearance for a run'n'break on the piano keys. ATC didn't actually state which set so we did the length of the runway at not many feet ;) and pulled sharpish into the circuit... my gibberish chatter faded away as I passed out for a few seconds..... very strange experience if you'tre not used to it !! Ignitor change didn't work, jumped back in and went low level over Dunkirk, the Channel (how low, ex-bucc driver!!), Kent, Isle of Wight, Devon and back to Wales and the valleys without feeling sick once !! Now, my trip in a Lightning.... different story... sick as a parrot :yuk::yuk::yuk:
Get a chance...... just do it (or regret not doing it for the rest of your life)
HH2

[Tim McLelland]

Ahh Lightnings, now you're talking! By strange coincidence, the one Lightning I managed to hitch a ride in (with some very kind VC10 support so we had some chance of getting a decent distance from Binbrook!) is still alive and well down at Cranfield (XS458) so I hope I get a chance to see her again sometime, even if the mighty beast is doomed to remain firmly on the ground, thanks to our beloved friends at the CAA. Grr!

[Hammer Head Too]

Was meant to tank with a Vulcan on HooDoo (sp!!) AAR trials but it went U/S :\so I had the standard 37 mins..... still the ultimate flight though :):)
HH2

[uk02048]

You bunch of lucky B*****ds!

ot quite the right place for a civvie.
However, what are the options for a non military guy to fly a fast jet?
Seen the foxbat type initiatives in Russia, but at around £20k for the trip this is a tad steep.
In UK/close Europe what's the biggest bang for a buck - a JP, Hunter or what ?

[Raven30]

Spent a very enjoyable 3 years at Chivenor when it reopened in the early 80s and managed to get 5 trips in Hawks - still remember them like it was yesterday. Didn't need the sick bags - although I always got out feeling tired and the worse for wear - nothing like the first few lungfuls of fresh air when the canopy opens! My best mate at the time managed many hours in the back seat - over 100 I recall - and he regularly threw up - even taxying out! I heard that they stopped at the holding point and had the caravan controller collect a sick bag from him before they took off! Wasn't there for that one, so can't confirm - but hey, never let the truth get in the way of a good story!
He never let the sick bags get in the way of his ambition though - and he now holds a senior position as a training captain with a UK airline - despite the RAF telling him he would never make it as aircrew!

[Fishtailed]

Watching a recording of British Superbikes recently, between the races it showed Leon Haslam having a flight in a Tornado, and did he enjoy it! Great PR despite all what else is going on. Any civvie getting a pax trip is just so lucky, and I should know, with 5 FJs, and 2 trainers which I logged as a PPL. In chronological order- Buccaneer, Hunter, Strikemaster, ADV, PC9, Hawk and Harrier, and the bag stayed in my pocket, though it was close in the Hawk when we were lead in a tailchase with another. Greyed out in the PC9 aswell during aeros, but it was still fantastic! They all were. I flew in the ADV with the RAF after many begging letters, and my one regret is after earlier begging letters to Binbrook, I was told no chance of a Lightning flight, but I was invited to the station for a day. I didn’t go, but now think maybe if I had they might have surprised me with a trip. Ah well, I can’t complain.

[Fishtailed]

Just tried my new scanner on some photos I dug out from 21/02/1992
Thanks again 23 Squadron:D:ok:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/fishtailed/Picture2.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/fishtailed/Picture1.jpg

[Tim McLelland]

I can't complain; for a humble civvie I don't think I've done too badly when it comes to military pax rides:- Hawk (12 flights in all), Jet Provost (5 times), Phantom (4 times), Buccaneer, Lightning, Harrier, Hornet, Jaguar (twice), Tucano (3 times), Dominie, Nimrod, KC-135, KC-10, Shackleton, Hunter, Canberra, Tornado GR4 (twice), Tornado F3, Sea King, Griffin, Chinook, VC10 (lost count how many), Hercules (lost count again!), Tristar, Andover, Lancaster, Chipmunk, Bulldog, Jetstream, Red Arrows, Blue Angels...

Quite a bit of flying, and an awful lot of time and help from folks at bases all over the place, and never a murmer of complaint (well apart from one person who shall remain nameless!):) Gawd bless 'em all!

[kiwi chick]

How the HELL did you manage all that, Tim?!

Whilst I don't have a testicle to offer, I WOULD probably sell my first born to get a ride in one. :ok:

And I thought Rick's story was hilarious :D ;)

[Fly380]

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/PROJECT/YEAR_Pages/2005.htm

Oct 14th. Hope Sgt Iain Logan enjoyed his short flight in the F3. Well he got a free tie.:}

[airborne_artist]

Oct 14th. Hope Sgt Iain Logan enjoyed his short flight in the F3. Well he got a free tieWhile the Wasp was anything but fast, a good mate got his tie before he joined the RN.

Prior to joining he was on an acquaint trip on a Wasp-equipped frigate, so the flight cdr, knowing he wanted FAA, took him for a jolly. Over-cooked a torque turn and Dougie was in the drink. Did his drills, got into his dinghy and was rapidly picked up. He used to get some odd looks wearing the tie before he'd even finished RW BFT.

[Tim McLelland]

Trying out Martin Baker's equipment is one thing I haven't had to do, although in some respects I guess it would be an interesting experience. I just get this horrifying mental image of somebody shouting "eject, eject" and me saying "what? are you sure?"...:eek:

[Whoosh1999]

I took many passengers flying in my time in the RAF, mostly in the Tornado. I always felt it was important that the pax enjoyed the trip to the fullest. If they were pre-occupied with the thought of throwing up then they were not going to enjoy the flight, so I would try to ensure we were always in an environment where this could be avoided.

The most memorable pax flight I did was in Goose Bay. A good mate of mine and I took a couple of the groundcrew flying in the training areas. Great fun going very fast and low! Needless to say, the 1:00 spent rushing around in tactical formation was thoroughly enjoyed by our passengers.

[Tim McLelland]

I know what you mean about not wanting to horrify your passengers but on the other hand it always seems like a bit of a waste to take a seat in a fast jet and not get a taste of how the aircraft really performs.

I have to say that despite being treated to some very "interesting" flights with RAF squadrons, one of the most memorable flights was courtesy of the FAA, and 899 NAS's Charlie Cantan, a former Falklands pilot. After having been impressed by the Harrier's take-off performance (easy to forget what a relatively light aircraft with a big engine is like), I thought we were destined for a relatively uneventful flight, following some Sea Harriers taking-on fuel from a VC10. But after annoucning we were leaving the formation and heading down, the hard roll and vertical descent to low level was enough to convince me that he wasn't going to make this a gentle stroll!

The low level run through Devon and was fantastic, pulling tight up hillsides, rolling inverted and pulling down the other side, looking up through the canopy at startled hill walkers and assorted sheep! Even then the T4N was getting on in years but it was great to see just how sprightly the old machine was. Just as impressive was returning to Yeovilton and coming to a stop over the runway, just sitting there on a smelly column of very turbulent air. I'm eternally grateful to Charlie for showing me what fast jet flying is really like, and not just making it a "joyride" even though it most certainly was!

[Flarkey]

During my one FJ trip, my Nav friend who organised the trip, and my pilot made sure to brief me on all of the benefits of joining the Martin Baker Club.

Not just the award of the 'I ejected and all I got was this lousy tie' tie but also the 'I ejected over water and got into my life raft' tie, and furthermore the 'whilst in my life raft I managed to use my Martin Baker emergency fishing rod' tie.

I'm still not sure I believed them on the second two. :rolleyes:

[kiwi chick]

Trying out Martin Baker's equipment is one thing I haven't had to do

Sadly, those of us weighing under 60kg don't even get the chance to get the chance to try them out... :{

[Fishtailed]

Woosh was right, all my drivers seemed to want me to stay healthy, although working flights had to be completed, and some of the pilots didn't like sand bags because of the possible consequences. Tim, your statement that it's a waste of a flight if you don't get the full monty isn't 100% true. All my pax trips (a mere fraction of yours), have been memorable for different reasons. The Buccaneer crossed Liverpool bay at 50 feet (also my first jet), the Hunter flew formation with two Canberras and a Lightning, and I flew most of the Strikemaster sortie myself, as well as being shown aeros and bouncing Hawks from Valley by the ace Hartley. Low level through the Cheviots then SS over the North Sea in the ADV. 30 mins of aeros in the PC9 and the G suit didn't stop me from greying out. Tailchasing in the Hawk and trying to topple the IN in the Harrier were more what Tim meant.
I also admit that during the safety briefs it sounded like banging out would be an experience, but thank whoever I never had to.:ok:

[Blacksheep]

And I thought Rick's story was hilarious So do I.

Stories like that keep the public in awe and promotes the myth of pilots as supermen (but with their underpants inside their tights)

...but for those of us who know the truth - that the typical FJ "Top Gun" pilot is a five foot eight inch, eighty kilo, pot bellied, Sun reading average Jo - how much to keep our mouths shut and a photo of you all snoozing off your lunch in the crew room out of the Sun? :} :}

[kiwi chick]

:eek: :ooh:

Oh my god. The FJ jockey that I share pillow with fits that description EXACTLY!!! (cept maybe the pot belly bit... his protrusion might be a tad lower :E )

But yes, undies on the outside... ;)

[Tim McLelland]

Fair point Fishtailed, I guess that a typical Joe would greatly appreciate just a lazy wander round the airfield circuit in a combat aircraft, but I'm sure you know what I mean. Certainly it would be pointless to make the experience unpleasant but it's a golden opportunity to find out what an aircraft can actually do.

This reminds me of a couple of days I spent at Scampton back in April when I was treated to four display rehearsals with the Red Arrows. On the way back from the runway after one display I was babbling to the pilot and discussing how so many people would kill to get a ride with them. As I said at the time, they're almost victims of their own professionalism as the display looks so crisp and smooth from the ground, and completely effortless. It's a great shame that everyone isn't able to see and feel things from inside the formation because it really would give a completely different perspective and earn the team even more respect and admiration. I was gobsmacked at how they could spend twenty minutes thundering round in foul weather at low level, bouncing up and down, pulling lots of g, doing a lot of grunting and swearing, and then calmly climb out of the Hawks and pose for some publicity shots with visitors, as if they'd been down to the local Tescos!

[Wee Jock McPlop]

Tim,

And here was me thinking that getting 5 FJ trips before I left was some going - well I suppose it was for a male air trafficker:E Thing is, the WRAF ladies (yes, those with the upside down legs) always seemed to have an advantage on me, but they never seemed to make that count:E What's your secret?

Blacksheep,

You forgot 'balding' in your very accurate description.

Kiwi Chick,

Rude girl. Early to bed and no milk for you!

[Tim McLelland]

Think my secret is simply down to (relatively) old age, so I've had plenty of time to do a lot of scrounging!:)

[iccarus]

To anyone who would like to experience a trip in a FJ, whilst hard to achieve it is not impossible.
I can think of numerous instances whereby, shall we say 'one good turn deserves another'.
If you have something to offer in return for an FJ trip, your opportunities increase exponentially.
This could for example be a special relationship between your airline company and a squadron. ( 19 Sqn and Virgin Atlantic springs to mind) Alternatively, you might have another good deal to offer - I took some long curly haired types flying in a Tonka and had a fun day with a multitude of shooters to say thank you!
Now you might not be an airline pilot or a blade but use your imagination - for example - seeing some of the photos TEEJ has produced, i am surprised that he hasn't tried to get a trip in return for some high quality photos of the sqn jet!!
Get my drift?????;););)

[Double Zero]

I was a photographer for BAe for 14 years - did a lot of flying, all in light aircraft such as PA-44.

I became pretty bullet-proof to manoevres in that - which may sound slight, but in fact that aircraft made a lot of people sick & we did a lot of spirited manouvering...

After I managed, pretty much by accident, to get the then CTP H.F. A full page spread in the 'Times' ( on a positive note ) I was shortly afterwards given a ride in G-Hawk - in formation with another Hawk for filming work, for once I was in the subject aircraft.

Chris Roberts, driving, did a lot of spectacular moves including dive attacks inverted at 1,500' then rolling out & a 4+ G pull, various other things around 4+ G.

Chris commented afterwards that he wouldn't normally take up a newbie on a sortie like that.

I was struck by 2 things - the Hawk cockpit which had always seemed roomy when I photographed it, was decididly cramped when sitting with all the flight suit on ! I was then a slim 5'9" 10.5 stone...

I also felt sick - wasn't actually, but close - I think part of this was the lack of situational awareness, and not really knowing what was going on - in light aircraft I always have the feeling I can land the thing if anything happens to the pilot ( years later this DID happen when a pilot - certainly not BAe - conked out on me ) -

I reckon to really enjoy fast jet flying, one has to build up a tolerance - so suspect people paying mega-bucks to ride a Mig-25 will mainly come away with a sick-bag as their trophy !

That reminds me, a Kingston photographer went to 'use' a sick bag to find out the hard way some joker had cut out the bottom...

[Flik Roll]

Sadly, those of us weighing under 60kg don't even get the chance to get the chance to try them out...

It's called filling your leg pockets with books and then standing on the scales :E

FJ rides - you don't ask you don't get and yes a lumpy jumper does help.

[luffers79]

Sound on.
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/swf/blueangels/blueangels.swf

[Tim McLelland]

One particular problem the Blue Angels had (at least when I visited them years ago) was that the video recorder they used to tape the passengers, tended to fail during the flights, when the g forces became excessive. The g made the recording head slip off the tape, as was demonstrated on one of my rides. It kept going until 7g and then "zip" - goodbye picture. Dunno whether they ever solved this problem or if they've gone digi or something...