HELP!!

[captainjohno]

Well, i have just joined the forum after visiting the OAT for an open day and i cant say that i feel any better about the prospect of being a pilot.
Lets get staright to the point, i am a 22 year old male with three A-Level (D) passes and i am in full time employment. i am trying to find the best route to achieving the ultimate goal - no not to become a pilot but to acquiring the money to fund the course without having to win the lottery!!
i mean i know there are various loans available such as HSBC fund in conjunction with the OAT but the course costs £61,800 but the HSBC will only loan up to £50,000:{.
Any advice?:)

[Pieman007]

Thought of modular? Half the price!

[Luke SkyToddler]

Basically you need to wise up to the fact that a school that charges £60 grand plus for a pilot's licence is a big fat high gloss RIP OFF. OAT probably failed to mention in their seminar that their course is only one of the numerous ways to become a professional pilot, and it's entirely possible to complete your flight training for about half that amount, if you choose your schools wisely.

Go do the entire CPL/IR abroad and then do a short conversion course back here in the UK once you've finished. The USA used to be the best option but the student pilot visa is a big pain in the **** now post 9/11, so a lot of guys are sticking to the commonwealth countries - flight training in Canada, Aus, New Zealand, South Africa all costs a lot less than half what it does here in Europe.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

3 grade D's is worse than having not done A-levels CV wise.

You don't have the money to finance your dream and you are up against determined competition who do.

I suggest a good long research period of maybe 5 years before you seriously consider spending any actual cash on flying training.

WWW

[Wannabe Mike]

Forget about getting a big fat loan, it's getting harder by the day to get credit, never mind a massisve loan to fund flight training which has no job guarantee at the end of it.

My advice is to be patient and save your arse off over the next four odd years and get as much money behind you as possible. Think really hard about integrated vs modular. Once you have realised what you had to sacrifice to accumulate the money you saved, you may think twice before lining the pockets of an all singing all dancing integrated FTO. If you want to take on big debt and do integrated go to CTC and try and get on the Wings Cadets scheme.

If you have a uni degree, use it to your advantage and target well paid city jobs. The hours will be **** and if your dream is to be a pilot it won't satisfy you, however it will give you the financial means to reach your goal.

Ultimately, if you really want it and have some aptitude I believe you can do it. Don't let inpatience and marketing cloud your judgement about flying training. You can do it with little or no debt. Depends on your determination.

Good luck, WM.

[captainjohno]

thanks mike, what i think i'll do is some more research and maybe i should a PPL first before taking the ultimate plunge!:ok:

[dartagnan]

why not have a normal life like everyone until 30yo, and get a normal job where you will be paid, instead to pay people.

60'000 is not enough, Don't forget another 20-30'000 for a type rating.
with your age, don't rush anything, and dont't put yourself in debt
good luck!

[fade to grey]

Johno,
I got to say if it cost £61 k today i wouldn't do it .....the returns are not good enough these days.

Despite the miserable little welshman, don't sweat the a levels, I got poor grades (wrong subjects), it has never been attacked in an interview.

think long and hard before you do this.Airlines are not a route to some kind of utopia....you will never have a reliable social life, you may well be away every bank holiday.You will work long hours, you will get up in the middle of the night to go to work.

Choose carefully....

[captainjohno]

that is true, i am aware that being a pilot is a 365 day a year job and you do often have to drag yourself out of your sack at stupid o'clock in the morning. But no other proffesion in the world seems to appeal to me. I think the pro's offset the con's but the only obstacle seems to be the money and i am some what confused to which route to take. The OAT state that students who take the integrated route are preffered by the airlines but i am starting to think that it obviously a lure to spend a fortune on flight training.

[littco]

There is an article in the Daily Telegraph today which says that the 4 major banks are likely to put up interest rates on all new loans by about 4% to cover the squeeze in the banking markets, on top of tighter lending criteria I think the chances of getting loans in the future is going to grow increasing tougher let alone expensive!

Ontop of that if you look at OAT stats some 20% of all students that have got jobs in 2007 have gone to Ryanair where they would have had to pay another £23K for the type rating!

Realistically if you go to OAT you are looking at a 1 in 5 chance of ending up at Ryanair and spending £85K+... Thats alot of money to borrow!

[captainjohno]

well then, there's no other choice then, i will just have to rob the bank!!:}

[speedrestriction]

OAT state that students who take the integrated route are preffered by the airlines

There are several questions you should be asking here:

What percentage of students recommended to the airlines are from integrated courses (thus influencing the OAT's statistics of preference)?

What percentage of students from each course type get recommendations?

If you want a qualitative assesment of the airlines' "preference" for integrated students there are only two questions you need to ask:

What percentage of integrated students who are recommended sucessfully obtain employment with the first company they a recommended to?

Where they have made recommendations for modular students, what percentage of them who were recommended sucessfully obtain employment with the company they have been recommended to?

sr

[Mach086]

Captain John Monks, the top guy at BA says at the moment and the forseeable future, BA will only take zero hour integrated pilots. they don't take zero hour mod pilots.

of course, if you have the normal 500+ hours behind you etc, it don't matter whether you done mod or integrated as long as you pass all the tests etc.

but BA aint the only airline out there. just giving some info on the subject.

And i would do more research regarding doing your ATPL in the states. add up accomodation costs etc, food and then the conversion course back to JAA, i've heard that there is very little difference in terms of finances. weather is good though!

[captainjohno]

sounds logical, where could i obtain such information?:cool:

[apron]

Go with what suits your needs and budget. I was fortunate enough to have the funds for OAT and it indeed did suit my needs. 15 months after starting the course has a few job offers. In my first year earned about 48k (jet job) and will earn more slightly this year. Believe me this will repay all your loans to hsbc etc and a type rating if you have to pay for one.

good luck

[captainjohno]

that sounds great, may i ask where you accumulated the funds from?

[Re-Heat]

Captain John Monks, the top guy at BA says at the moment and the forseeable future, BA will only take zero hour integrated pilots. they don't take zero hour mod pilots.
They prefer to, but do not keep to this rule. Lesson - give it a go anyway, whatever your background in training.

[captainjohno]

thanks heat, i am still considering going down the integrated route as i only have four hours previous flying experience. the only obstacle is the funding. HSBC will only loan me up to £50,000 but the course starts at £61,800. any suggestions?:ooh:

[flyasthesky]

Maybe possibly you could remain in work a little while longer and get the added 11,800. Just a suggestion:ok:.

[AlphaMale]

Is £12k really that hard to save? Have you got anything you can sell?

Students going the Modular route like myself have to save £20k/£30k+ and get a little Loan or a CDL to cover the rest, If you really want it bad enough you'll find the outstanding £12k from somewhere.

If I was HSBC lending you £50,000 I'd like you to show me you have what it takes and at least some commitment to raising some funds. You only need to find 20% of the funds :rolleyes:

[bri1980]

what i think i'll do is some more research and maybe i should a PPL first before taking the ultimate plunge!

PPL is usually a good idea. If you want to go modular its the key starting point and if you eventually do finance an integrated course you will have a head start. Highland Airways occasionally offer a sponsorship, and you will need your PPL to be eligible, and a Class 1 medical I think.

Credit to you fo having gone to the seminar and visited a school though, many others would do well to follow your example in this regard.

Regards

Brian

[captainjohno]

well i see your point, i will have to live like a monk for a couple of years and try to find a better paid job in the interim. thank you all for your suggestions:ok:

[AlphaMale]

I'm sure you'll get there in the end. ;)

And I'm sure it'll be worth the wait too. You're 22 and you'll have the £12k in 2 years for sure. Commence your training at 24/25 and be knocking on Airlines doors with a fATPL by 26 which is still young enough without being too young (you have life more experience).

I'll be 29 when I have my fATPL and 1,000hrs and I'd like to think I'd have a good 30 years service to offer the airlines. Debt free unless I have to SSTR :(