jobs

[gd123]

Just started my atpl's and giving up a good job to do all this. After reading some of the threads on here a lot of people seem to say its IMPOSSIBLE to get jobs. Im going to do, or I want to do my training a cab air then i was going to pay for an instructors rating and a type rating if necessary. Wouldnt that be enough?????? what do airlines want, help.....

[Awesome_Welles]

It's not impossible to get jobs, I got a job last week after being a flying instructor and know quite a few people who are getting jobs or invited to interview. The market has not been this good for ages!

You'll get a job very easily as a flying instructor I would have thought. Do that for a year or so, and then put a lot of effort into job applications with airlines, exec and cargo operators, everyone. Something will come from it if you try hard enough.

Anyone who says it's impossible to get a job is either not putting in enough effort into applications, coming across badly at interview or they don't have sufficient experience to be called for interview.

[gd123]

Thanks for that, was starting to think that all this hard work was going to amount to very little. Who did you get a job with if you dont mind me asking, oh and good look with it

[TurboJ]

There are jobs - network or get recommended by a flight school - its not impossible and don't give up.

[RS999]

There are definately jobs out there but you've got to look for them and be prepared to 'work your way upwards' so to speak. But (as far as I'm led to believe) a lot of airlines will not employ with less than 200 hours on type.

[rjay259]

Gd KEEP AT IT.

It will happen but be rest assured it will TAKE TIME.

Example my self, left CABAIR May '03 sent out somewhere in the region of six to seven hundred letters and applications over five to six months, was lucky to get thank you but not this time back.

Did a bit of flying but not much as I was skint, became a flight instructor with a club at Shoreham after 18 months of nothing, I have to say a really good time doing it and while doing that was still applying, but this time my hours and hand flying skills were increasing.

Still nothing.

About six months after being a flight instructor, spent the money on a type rating and a small bit of line flying on the B737, and sent out more applications.

Got an interview with Thomson and got through even then spent out more money as had to go to Luton for interview and psycho what nots and Manchester to do the sim.

Paid off as they offerd me a job which I started in October 2005.

Two and a bit years from finishing course to starting a Jet job.

As I said IT TAKES TIME, and all those who sit here bitc#ing about not getting anywhere and you finished two months ago, take a number.

Good luck and if you do anything just enjoy it all.

259

[gd123]

Hi, cheers for your message. How did u find cab air?

[Deano777]

Whilst I agree with all the comments about getting a job and being positive etc just remember there are those that NEVER get jobs, and I would imagine the ratio is quite high.

All I am saying is go into it with an open mind and remember there is always a chance it just won't happen, to think otherwise is a little naive.
For those who say "it WILL happen" are talking nonsense, but a little positive thinking goes a long way ;)

[matt85]

There are almost always really obvious reasons as to why certain people never get jobs though.

[gd123]

why might that be?

[Deano777]

Very true Matt, but there are those who don't get jobs for any reason at all, there are exceptions to every rule (ok ok, you can't strike a match on a bar of soap). But let's put some figures on it, I hear there are about 1300 wannabes with no job, how many jobs are there per annum? and that's new positions, not movement, let's say 300? 400? I somehow think I am overestimating but stand to be corrected. That leaves a 1,000 wannabes without jobs every year, I can't imagine all these have "reasons" why they don't get through. It's a complete bottleneck, alot get through, but a vast number doesn't, and the only way room is made at the neck is those who don't make it.

[expedite08]

Matt85,
I have to agree totally with that comment. From personal experience I have spoken to lots of people who are looking for jobs etc. Upon meeting them and talking, 9 times out of 10, I can see straight away why they do not have a job! Now I'm talking about a brief conversation here, hi, how are you, all the nice pleasantries etc. Not more than 5 mins or so in duration!

I wont go in to depth at all in describing attitudes and behaviours etc, im not a phsychologist. But even if I was interviewing at a supermarket or call centre I would have doubts!

In the Aviation world it is strange that people forget that they are applying for a job, ie to be employed for a company, and hence have to make an excellent first impression and sell themselves as the product.

So yes, there are a lot of FATPL's out there but a whole lot of them are most probably totally unemployable!

[Callsign Kilo]

I have a CPL/IR; but no flying job....therefore I am not all that different than most?

Not to say I wouldn't like one and not to say that I'm not trying, however it goads me when I meet and talk to people in the same situation as myself who do nothing but moan about the fact that they don't have an airline job.

As someone said, a lot of people won't make it. Hope I'm not one of them, but I might be! No one ever told me that I would be guaranteed my dream career when I decided to go hell for leather and invest a heafty amount of cash on my training. I took the risk (and remember folks - this is a risk!) so I'm prepared to take the punches. However, it has to be one of the best things that I have ever done with my life.

If I have any advice to give, it would be.....

1. Be open to anything and always appear positive (even when you feel that you aren't)
2. Never think that you know it all - you know jack sh1t
3. Always be polite....aviation is a small world
4. NETWORK
5. Never stop learning
6. Above all....never loose you're passion for flying

Number 7 should be 'Do an FIC.' I'm doing one now and I believe it to be one of the most challenging things that I have done in my flying career so far. Plus one of the most fun!

[ReallyAnnoyed]

I find it quite harsh to claim that those who never find an airline job are to blame themselves for it. To me, it seems that luck has a great part to play in finding that first elusive job that makes the world your oyster. Personally, I know quite a few guys still looking for their big break and I have nothing to put on neither their personality nor flying abilities. It is of little importance how you come off at an interview if you are never invited to attend one :)

Just to fend off any accusations of whinging: I was fortunate enough to be put in an airbus relatively quickly after flight school after some CTC hoop jumping.

[BerksFlyer]

I think that everyone should remember that when it comes round to looking at forums of this sort of course there will be more negativity than positivity with regards to the outlook of employment.

Not all people with a CPL/IR will get employment... it doesn't work like that! Otherwise everyone would take that leap to getting a flying job. The thing you should do is try and get yourself ahead of everyone else in your situation, just like you would with any other job. Get down your local flying club. I'd imagine there's plenty of good airline contacts to be had down there. And as Callsign Kilo said, you might as well become an instructor if you have no luck initially. Sure it's poor pay, but it isn't a full time job is it? And every single hour you log will make you look that bit better to prospective employers. if you really are that determined, you've got every chance that eventually luck will join your side.

I think that being 15 for now has its advantages, I have plenty of time to plan how I'm going to look good to an airline and get an interview once I get into your position.

Good luck! :ok:

[dartagnan]

few jobs for many many applicants, thats the problem.
so airlines can discriminate, select, do whatever they want with us.Even ask us money to play...

Nothing to do with the behavior of a candidate. It is just one of the worse market.There is no job(or limited jobs) in this market except for captains with thousand hours on eavyjet.
But, don't loose hope, the situation is much better than 4-5 years ago.
I got an interview in septembre, will get a next one in october, and I hope to get 2 in November 2007. I can not believe it.

[rjay259]

I will agree with most leaving a message here.

But above all you must keep on trying no matter what. Keep that little bit of motivation and it will help you no matter what.

I knew a guy who was turned down at my company but he kept on going and going until he got a job. He was one guy I thought who wouldnt get a job due to his manner and demeanour. Exel thought otherwise.

Deno you can always make things happen and you must be prepared to take the punt. We all had to and have to.

Berks flyer, I like your attitude but not all of what you say is true, if you hold a CPL/IR you will get a job but it depends on what job you are willing to take.

Start at the bottom and work up, everyone starts that way even the most senior training Captains do. Become a flight instructor, fly parachute jumpers, take photos and sell them. Fly someones chickens around if you have to, I did, they were in a box thankfully.

Do what you have to.

Good luck

259

[BerksFlyer]

dartagnan,

Although you are probably right in what you say, it isn't necessarily true that only experienced captains can find new jobs because airlines need to keep the balance between experience and inexperience. ie. for every new training captain, there should be another new low(ish) hour FO for him to train, every new line FO a new line Captain and so on.

[Wireless]

Berksflyer

I think you may have misunderstood dartagnan a little. He means to say even very experienced people who have made lofty positions started somewhere. I tried for 9 years. Air Atlantique gave me a break then onto Flybe so it does work if you try...and try....and try lol!

More tea vicar?!

[fade to grey]

Ignore Dartganan,
the bitter and twisted chap has been posting doom and gloom on here for years.

My advice is to get your licence and go look for a 'niche' job.Don't do the obvious - every bright young thing on here will be getting aroused by airbuseaux and the boeings -look for an angle- approach smaller operators, research who has the bizjets parked up on the remote side of the airport:appraoch them.

This worked for me - a years bizjet time and you'll be fighting them off with a stick.

Network as much as you can - this is vital, contacts in airlines can recommend you, this will be very important.

regards,
FTG

[brownbaron]

You guys need to get real.
Those of you that are ethnic or female will walk into work if you are not you will struggle.
Ive 2000hrs, all the trimmings even a type rating and still nothing.
Dont think eh he`s just bitter im not, i am now looking at flying as a hobby.
I have many friends in the same position and we have seen positive discrimination on a massive scale. Hr departments should be ashamed.
Spend your money on starting a business and a ppl if you want to fly.
A military pilot once told me and now i believe him that being female or of ethnic origin is worth 3000 hrs on type.
The airlines are walking over you guys
Dont spend your money!!!!!:ok:

[johankytt]

Does anyone know of any companies doing aerial photography or filming? I've searched the internet for quite a while now, but haven't found nearly anything. I also e-mailed a few parachuting clubs but as usual they just don't reply to your emails.

rjay259 who's chickens did you fly around and how did you find out about that kind of job?

Also could someone tell me from where is it best to look for those small companies and the "insignificant" flying jobs? I can find loads of airlines but nearly none of the small operators (except flying clubs and schools, but I don't have an FI rating right now).

[Lembrado]

Callsign Kilo,


Good attitude - keep it up. I have no doubt that you will succeed.

Best of luck with the instructors rating - I too found it most challenging.


L.

[rjay259]

Johan,

Was waiting around the airport and someone was flying to a farm near dorchester. Asked if I wanted to come along and said yes, new the guy anyway, ended up taken the damn things on my own. Was kinda funny, wouldnt do it again as it really really smelt. Right time right place. A bit of free flying.

Brown baron, If you have nothing helpful to say then bugger off and mope somewhere else.

everyone on this site needs helpful and constructive comments. Yes it really isnt easy to get a job and we were all misled into thinking it would be easy.

For all others, be under no illusion it is very very hard to get a job aftewards, but you have spent so much time, effort and money that you must really really keep trying and keep going.

Go to the local flying club and just ask if they could pass on your CV to any member who works for an airline or bizjet company and get them to pass comments on to you. You never know they may even pass it on to their own HR for advice.
Phone HR depts. and ask advice on what they look for then put into practice.

There is a lot of luck involved but hopefully and at some point you will get a good job.

Best of luck to you all.

Ross.

[Stratman]

There most certainly is a lot of luck involved , coupled with the ability of the individual to keep producing massive sums of money in order to achieve a pilots job.A great pity that the industry has become like this because it keeps many talented people from entering unless they can raise the money. I have been involved in this industry for over 20 years and I would not be too dismissive of blue barons observations , The worst thing to happen to aviation was `low cost` carrier mentality. Make no mistake about it , there is absolutely nothing out there that is ` cheap` without people suffering .
Before anyone mentions what a competetive world we live in and I begin to smile just substitute the word competetive for greedy and you are right on the money. Sorry to go on people but sometimes one feels like letting some truths out.

Good luck anyway.

Cheers.