Safety Demo - really needed?

[xxgunnerxx]

Hi!
Travelling more and more often in the past few years I have come to a
realization that probably around 60% of the passengers don't even bother looking at the flight attendents/ PTVs during the safety demonstration. While safety is very important should it really be done each and every flight? The chances of getting killed in a car accident are much greater than in a plane crash, yet the driver or whoever never breifs the passengers on what to do in case of fire, smoke inside, seatbelts etc. When people drive or are passengers they automatically know that putting the seatbelts on is a good idea for their own safety, yet every flight, FAs run around the aircraft making sure that everone is tied in and briefed during an emergency. I think that if an emergency does arise, example: ditching, flight attendents will have enough time to breif the passengers on what to do and therefore eliminating the need of safety demos.... What do you think?

[Bullethead]

In a practical sense for the frequent traveller you're probably right, but the reason these briefs are done on each and every flight is due to airline liability if things go wrong.

Even straight forward things, to most people, such as keeping your seatbelt loosely fastened at all times, if not announced, leaves the airline open for claims if someone sustains an injury due turbulence.

If the airline has briefed the pax on the safety requirements then it's up to the individual if they want to take notice.

There are always first time flyers on every flight who need to be properly briefed.

Regards,
BH.

[Hartington]

Also, each aircraft is subtly different.

There have been too many occasions when people have got out of wrecks *because* they listened to the demo. I'm not a nervous flyer and I do sufficient flying that I could qualify as one of those who "don't need" to listen. But, I always listen and I always have a quick think about how I would evacuate if the need arose.

There is also a question of courtesy. The crew have no choice - they have to complete the demo. Depending on the airline they may do it by the book or they may add some personality but the fact is they stand there and do it for my benefit (yes I know they have to, but in the end it is for my benefit) and I feel it is only common courtesy to show some appreciation for their efforts by watching.

[SXB]

Yes, it's necessary. Some of the points raised you'll already be familiar with but the real point of a safety briefing is to make people aware of the subject of safety and to think about it for a moment or two. Those listening will look around and locate their nearest emergency exit, it doesn't matter how frequent a traveller you may be, if you don't know exactly where your nearest exit is located then you are reducing your chances of survival in certain emergency situations; think about the recent high speed evacuations of airplanes which have experienced emergency situations on landing (fire)

I also agree with Hartington's comments on pure courtesy. How annoyed do you get when presenting something at a meeting and some people don't pay attention, annoying isn't it ? Also, hardly comparable in value to a safety briefing.

[Getoutofmygalley]

And as one of those FA's that goes running around making sure Pax seat belts are fastened, I can assure you that on every flight one or two pax will NOT have bothered fastening their seatbelts.

We have standard phrases that we use such as "Please ensure your seat is upright, tray table is stowed, arm rests are down and seat belts are fastened" - every time I secure my cabin I will have to get people to do one or two of the things mentioned on the PA.

And only in a perfect emergency will the FA's have time to go through the cabin making sure that your seat belts are fastened - what about sudden emergencies on taking off (uncontained engine failure leading to a fire - like the British Airtours fire at Manchester) - there would have been sudden deceleration during this RTO and pax would have been injured if seat belts were not fastened and pax would not be aware of where all the emergency exits are located. Or coming in to land, what if the landing gear collapsed and the aircraft then caught fire - no briefing, no 100% guarantee pax will all know where the exits are located (and most pax will in an emergency try to leave the aircraft by the door they entered, even if seated 3/4 down a cabin).

As crew we have a duty of care to the passengers, even if they do chose to ignore the safety briefing. But, if say half the pax do watch and pay attention, then in an emergency we stand more chance of everyone getting out alive as those people that have paid attention will move to their nearest exit.

[Blues&twos]

Absolutely the safety demo should be performed on every flight. Even as a relatively knowledgeable flier, I always get the card out and have a quick squint, have a listen to the FA's - Hartington's comment about subtle differences is right.. Also, chances are that quite a few flights have pax on board who have never flown before, and therefore won't have a clue how to operate the oxy masks, doors, escape chutes etc.

It's not just aircraft, all visitiors to our site are shown where the emergency exits are and what to do in the case of an emergency. The fact they've been in thousands of similar buildings in the past doesn't mean they know what to do in ours.

It's just common sense to tell people these things!

[13Alpha]

Agree with all of the replies.

And, for those frequent passengers who think they don't need to listen to the briefing it would be much appreciated if they would keep quiet to allow the rest of us to hear it.

So top marks to the crew of BA8706 LCY-EDI this morning who politely, but firmly, silenced rows 15-19 during the briefing. :D

Not only that but they were strict about pax using the toilets before the seatbelt sign was switched off, making sure seatbelts were fastened, and bags right under the seat in front. :ok:

(I would have given them a gold star on the BA website, but could only find pages dealing with complaints :hmm:)

13Alpha

[Palmgren]

Exits are in different numbers and locations on different aircraft, and the doors can be opened in different manners. Exit routes once outside vary dependant upon aircraft configuration - although "get away from the burning/sinking plane" is pretty consistent. You cannot say the same for being a car passenger. I have seen fellow SLF who cannot operate a seat belt - I wonder how they got to the airport unassisted.:confused:

During an emergency descent I do not think the FAs are going to be able to stand in the aisle and do a safety demonstration. Also consider the SLF noise due to panic. If the oxygen masks deploy a novice passenger cannot sit there suffocating whilst told how to make the oxygen flow in the mask.

I always listen and watch the demostration, and read the card - even when I have sat in the exit row of an aircraft where I was involved in the design of the overwing door. I think the FA should be able to 'spot-quiz' any pax who has obviously not being paying attention - ask them to locate their lifevest and inflate it, ask them to locate the second nearest exit, etc.

[Dan Air 87]

Virgin have got the best safety demo which is watchable with a little humour. I never tire at seeing it but can't work which actors are doing the voiceovers. It gets my attention!

[Getoutofmygalley]

I think the FA should be able to 'spot-quiz' any pax who has obviously not being paying attention

Done that! :p

Back when I first started flying I was standing there in the middle of the cabin and these 2 onboxious men and 1 woman were talking all through the safety demo. I kept giving them evil looks which they saw and sniggered at.

Whilst doing my cabin secure I was debating as to whether I should say something or not (back then I was a mild mannered here to serve cabin crew member - now I am safety safety safety and service is second only after safety) when the decision was made for me, one of the 2 obnoxious guys said "Scuse me, sorry wasn't paying attention before - where is the nearest exit?" I looked at him and for the first time since becoming crew I was a bit rude to a passenger and I said "If you were paying attention just now instead of talking loudly during the safety demonstration which is for YOUR benefit you would know! I know how to get out of here in an emergency so I will be ok. I bet you don't even know where your life jacket is located do you?" (sheepish look and a shaking of head followed) "I bet you don't even know how to activate your oxygen mask in a decompression either!" (again a shaking of head and his 2 companions now were head bowed) I then followed that with "Best hope nothing happens on this flight then hadn't you!" and walked off back to my galley. Passengers seated nearby were sniggering, one or two said "Well done!" and a few winked at me as well.

I will probably get shot down in flames by some SLF now for saying that, but when you are crew it does make you really REALLY angry when people ignore the demonstration!

[ChristiaanJ]

I would say I'm among those who watch the "safety demo ballet" with only half an eye.
But....
I use the performance as cues for my own checklist, such as:
- where am I relative to the exits (not only the nearest one)?
- seatbelt good and tight? This may be my day for an RTO.
- how do I open the exits (hoping the safety card is clear enough)?
Nothing like a quick refresher course every time, not in the least because the aircraft type may be different, and I will probably be in a different seat, since the last time.
Two things I would still like to know, though...
1) How hard do I have to jerk on that oxygen mask thingie to get it to flow, without pulling the hose off?
2) Whom do I ask to borrow a dummy life vest to practise once for myself? It always seems such a clumsy process, that I feel perfectly capable of messing it up in an emergency.
(Oh, I know ditchings are exceedingly rare. But overruns into water do happen. So do ditchings of light aircraft.
And where I live, an unhealthy dose of seagulls into both engines is not an impossibility. In which case there is only one way, straight into the water.)

[jeanyqua]

Shot down in flames....why...?
When flying short haul...we always book legroom...it is my responsibility as an able bodied passenger to note how to open the exit door...and lob it out as far as possible (if we are in those seats).
It bugs the life out of me when i see pax in front of me reading a paper,or chatting whilst a member of crew briefs safety.
I noted recently on a flight down from LBA to EXE..a member of crew made a point (quite loudly too !),that all passengers should pay attention.

[Getoutofmygalley]

Whom do I ask to borrow a dummy life vest to practise once for myself?

Ask the crew next time you fly, providing it isn't a really mega short flight they might let you have a go. Just do be aware though that the life jackets used in the demonstration kit are (depending on type) slightly different to the real life jackets under your seat. Some demonstration jackets have a slightly larger head hole than the real ones so that the crew member demonstrating it can 1) get it on quickly 2) get it on without mucking up their hair! :}

Shot down in flames....why...?

I expected to be shot down in flames by the types of SLF that do not pay attention to the demonstration.

Referring to your comment about pax in front of you reading or chatting during demo, I have in the past when noisy people are stopping others from being able to hear properly (as I am the person reading the demonstration text) I have stopped reading it, stood up and looked over in the direction of the persons talking loudly. The rest of the crew demonstrating then wonder what is going on, they turn, look at me, see that I am looking at someone, then they in turn stare. Before you know it, half the aircraft is looking at the noisy persons who then after a moment or two realise that everyone is looking in their direction and feel rather sheepish. Thoroughly unprofessional I know, but you can guarantee that the next time they fly, they WILL pay attention to the crew or at the very least be quiet!

[perkin]

Great story! :)

I just wish more CC were as assertive as you at dealing with the less well socially educated individuals who grace the skies...!

I don't listen to the 737-300 briefing any more as I pretty much know it off by heart (unless its an unfamiliar airline) but I do respect the fact other people need to listen and I keep quiet during the safety briefing. I also count the number of rows to the exits infront and behind me - whether I'll remember it in a major emergency, I don't know, but its worth a go...I believe a number of crash survivors have attributed their escape to this simple task...

[jeanyqua]

Too funny....:)...bet they'd love to crawl into that space,under the seat in front of them...oh...but they can't,cos it's stuffed with their carry on...!

[ChristiaanJ]

Just do be aware though that the life jackets used in the demonstration kit are (depending on type) slightly different to the real life jackets under your seat.Thanks!
I wouldn't expect that to matter too much. It's more the "body memory" of what it feels like, how it looks and feels when the right way round, what the gestures with the straps are, etc. Somehow, watching it ten times is no substitute for doing it once....

[Sark]

I was under the impression that it was a legal requirement for passengers to watch and listen to pre-flight safety briefings.

[ChristiaanJ]

Sark, I was under the impression that it was a legal requirement for passengers to watch and listen to pre-flight safety briefings.Even if it was, what on earth are you going to do about it if they don't watch and listen? Fine them on the spot?

I think you're confusing this with it being a legal requirement for the airlines to do the safety briefing.

[Rwy in Sight]

Getoutofmygalley,

Although I think you were not very nice to the people not paying any attention and then asking question (at the end of the day they rather be told once again where the exit is rather than block an emergency evacuation), I really liked your idea about asking to put on the life jacket. It is on the top of my "to do" list on the next trip.

Now as a contribution to the tread, I think is a good idea for the person making the PA to monitor the cabin or the crew and stop the PA by requesting the pax who do not pay attention to do so. An idea somewhat difficult to solve.

Rwy in Sight

[Hartington]

I too will be asking to try the life vest - luckily my next flight looks quite empty and is 7 odd hours so hopefully I can find a quite moment and a secluded place (!).

Asking people to pay attention is fine when a human is doing the demo. How easy would it be when the demo is automated/video as it is on so many these days?

[UniFoxOs]

CJ - damn good points about the practising. Mrs UFO and I cruise quite a bit, all cruises (UK registered or departing, anyway) you have to muster to the emergency station (thereby knowing where it is), without using the lifts (as in a real emergency), with your lifejacket, demonstrate you can put it on and know the attitude to adopt to jump off the ship. Obviously this would be a bit impractical on an aircraft, but a good move would be for final departure lounges (where we spend bloody hours waiting) to have a few aircraft seats, with the lifejackets installed in the correct location, and the oxygen mask droppable so we could pratice getting the lifejacket out, putting it on, putting the mask on and pulling the tube to activate it. If just one or two pax had a go (I would be first in the queue) many of the others would watch and maybe learn something.

UFO

[ladyflyby]

It takes just a few minutes and if someone isn't watching, I politely ask them to put down their book/newspaper/etc... Your book isn't going to help you in an emergency, but knowing where your nearest exit is and that you have to PULL the oxygen mask to start the oxygen flow, could all be of great use to you.

As for the videos, I much prefer the live demo. People are more inclined to take notice if it's happening in the aisle infront of them.

[starbag]

Even if you travel on the same type of aircraft, the airline may have specified different emergency equipment from other airlines (life jackets with one or two chambers, and a strap to tie, or clip together). Also the same aircraft type within an airline may be laid out differently or have different equipment as the airline may have leased aircraft from various sources.

It's always better to know it and not need it, than need it and not know it (hope that doesn't sound too patronising!)

[ChristiaanJ]

starbag,
Much what I was saying too.

On a shorthaul flight there is not really much time or opportunity for an "extended safety demo" with interested passengers.
But on a boring longhaul?

[A Very Civil Pilot]

1) How hard do I have to jerk on that oxygen mask thingie to get it to flow, without pulling the hose off?


When the masks are deployed, they are hanging from a bit of string (at least in a B737). In getting the mask to your face, pulling the string releases a pin, which starts the chemical oxygen generation. There is enough slack in the actual air line so that you will not be tugging on that to get it started.

Photo;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Passenger_oxygen_mask_dsc06035.jpg/411px-Passenger_oxygen_mask_dsc06035.jpg

photo credit from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Passenger_oxygen_mask_dsc06035.jpg

[419]

Dan Air 87.

It's Vic Reeves and Dani Behr doing the voices in the Virgin briefing.

If she were to give the brief dressed like this, more people might watch.

http://www.danibehr.com/dani_behr04.jpg
Dani Behr.

[GEAR_DOWN]

""Even if it was, what on earth are you going to do about it if they don't watch and listen? Fine them on the spot?"" poster -ChristiaanJ

I would off load them simple as that. I have done in the past, and will continue to do so. If they cant listen in a normal every day situation, they are not going to listen in an emergency situation . I have offloaded a number of pax for continually interruting the safety demo.

I have NO time for people like this.

[ChristiaanJ]

I would offload them, simple as that. I have done in the past...Offloading paying pax must make you mighty popular with the bean counters...

"....pax continually interrupting the safety demo. " OK....

But what are you going to do about me? Clearly not paying attention : barely watching the circus, while turning around to check the exits, fiddling with my safety belt, finding and reading the safety card, diving under my seat to see if there at least IS a life-vest?

[Shack37]

419

If Dani Behr gave the safety demo dressed like that all the male pax would watch (if their wives let them) but I think the briefs would get more attention than the brief :ok:

s37

[west lakes]

Can't help wondering that if innatentive/disruptive SLF are an issue why have airlines (not cabin crew) not come up with strategies to deal with the issue.
Is it that the bean counters are content to leave well alone as there is no "cost" benefit to changing the method of briefing. "it's a legal thing so we'll do the minimum"?
Is it that they want to keep it laid back so as not to scare pax, or put them off flying with them again.
Look at some of the road safety ads now around using shock tactics. Industrial safety uses the same techniques.
OK the road accident rate is far higher than the airlines but I can't help but feel that airlines & regulators are getting complacent over a important safety feature of airline travel.

[strake]

It's Vic Reeves and Dani Behr doing the voices in the Virgin briefing
Sorry to be a pedant and to possibly disappoint:sad:....but it's not Dani Behr anymore....
About 3 months ago, Virgin considerably reduced the length of their safety video. For some reason they also dropped Ms Behr for someone else who's name I can't remember but it does appear on the credits at the end.

[Shack37]

AVCP

Thanks for the oxygen info, often wondered about that myself but never remembered to ask.

s37

[419]

If anyone is interested in watching the Virgin briefing, it's here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR4dxPISegY

I've noticed that whenever I fly with VA, it always gets most people watching it, which must be a good thing.

[6chimes]

The chances of getting killed in a car accident are much greater than in a plane crash, yet the driver or whoever never breifs the passengers on what to do in case of fire, smoke inside, seatbelts etc.

Maybe you answered your own question?

6

[ChristiaanJ]

419,
Thanks for the link to the video.
Nicely done, including the little note about unwrapping the life vest first.....

AVCP,
My thanks for the oxygen info too.
The "live" demos always give you the impression you're supposed to jerk on the plastic hose, which is obviously not the case from the photo.