"Supporting troops needn't mean backing war" - Boris

[Top Right]

Boris Johnson in the Telegraph, supporting the public need to recognise Armed Forces' efforts when they return home.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=3ZMZKESM05UZRQFIQMFCFFWAVCBQYIV0?xml=/opinion/2007/09/27/do2701.xml

"People have no difficulty in making a distinction between the rights and wrongs of a war, and the heroism of the troops we send out to fight it"

TR

[mutleyfour]

That made a good read, well done Boris!

[BEagle]

Boris Johnson has overwhelmingly won the battle to be Conservative candidate in next year's London mayoral race.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7014739.stm

Good news indeed!! Let's hope London will soon lose the smug newt-fancying trendy leftie as mayor - and that there'll be a return to commonsense values.

First thing to go should be the fraudulent western expansion of the Kengestion charge area.....

[themightyimp]

Boris for PM! At least he has a personality and isn't a Spin Meister........

[Maxibon]

What an excellent article by Boris. There are a lot of common sense politicians out there but he's the dominant face of vocalising his views. He hits the nail squarely on the head - it seems that the government are so reluctant to allow any true display of nationalistic pride because they fear a potential backlash. They stick in the the odd token gesture - Brown mentioning Britishness 32,167 times in 2 minutes of his speech - thinking that it will appease the middle classes and backbone of this country. The reality is that they are scared; any true feeling of public pride might spread faster than a leaky research valve virus and allowing our country to actually voice and echo its pride would be unthinkable.

Perhaps my thoughts are not really appropriate for Pprune but it seems to me that the backlash has to come from somewhere? We all do or have done our bit - why the hell shouldn't we shout about it.

[Guzlin Adnams]

The son of the manse was on telly last night with one of those lovely must watch partly political broad thingies.....I didn't hear all of it as one doesn't but can anyone tell me if he mentioned his support for the armed forces in his schpeil.........:(

[dallas]

His article does him credit - it hints as old-fashioned values such as honour and debt, which don't feature in our consumerist, Pop Idolising world. Although he acts the buffoon, this is a useful weapon in disarming his rivals and I hope he does well with values like that.

[stillin1]

Up until now I had always thought the chap a bit of a plonka.
However, that was an article that really hit the nail on the head. Well done Boris / whom so ever composed it:E
Sorry Boris - politician = I have a trust issue. SO rare to find one you trust to do what they were elected for rather than feather their own nest:mad:

[chappie]

boris may be a politicain but he's a journalist first. i heard a very good interview excerpt from him on radio 2 yesterday and i have to say i totally agree that yes the armed forces should be totally supported in the work that they do. i mean what the hell is going on with our "society" these days???!!!??? you should all be totally revered and respected and blatantly adored basically in my view, but sadly the cretins we are forced to share oxygen with do not seem to think that far.

i have in my work to help the herc community had to take part in stop the war stuff. i lost bob in the war and i'm so bloody mixed up about wether we should be there ever....i digress, sorry, the simple fact remains that my stance has always firmly been it is essential that we support the troops that are fighting( well, all of you in fact but you know what i mean). i have stood up in front of an anti war protest in our great capital and driven this point forward, that we should be supporting our troops not simply shout troops out. 40,000 faces staring at me (i was told it was that many, but didn't bother counting).

i think we can afford to give boris a go...god knows..mayor today..prime minister tomorrow.:rolleyes:

[moggiee]

People underestimate Boris because he conveys a bumbling manner. However, not only is he a journalist he also made a VERY successful job of running the Spectator (circulation and profits up) and is very well regarded by his constituents in Henley.

He is also that rare commodity in politics - a character. I do hope he wins the mayoral election and I also applaude his comments in the aforementioned article.

For the record, I think most of the British public can successfully separate their support for the troops from their lack of belief in "the crusade" (to quote Dubya). I just don't think that as a nation we are big on homecoming parades.

[Wiley]

Has anybody here seen the YouTube clip about the retiree in Dallas who has turned up at the local airport at 6.00 a.m. every day for over a year now to welcome the troops home from Iraq/Afghansitan? It's got to the point now where school groups now sometimes join him, and the looks on the faces of the servicemen and women as they walk past these groups is quite something to see.

I'm afraid I just can't see the same thing ever happening in the UK or Ozmate. It just doesn't appear to be in our current national psyches - and even if someone wanted to do it, you could almost guarantee that some *** Jobsworth would find it infringed some obscure rule and move him on.

Edited to add the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dl4Sq0KKPI

Worth the download time, even if you're not on broadband.

[merlinxx]

I for one support our service personnel. Now is the time for someone, Boris maybe, to start a real, open and honorable support programme, throughout the UK via our local news media, local MPs and Councilors (what ever party).
Lobby, lobby and lobby some more. I this morning written to my local MP, local Councilors and press.

I remember being in the "Big Easy" where I first saw the stickers, patches, banners et al, saying "These colors (US spelling) don't run".

Our problem in the UK is we lack any form of patriotism any more, I'm proud to be Welsh thus British!

Lets start,and not leave up to the British Legion, 'tis folks on the street that'll get it moving. Lobby our local Cadet Corps to get them to parade with all three branches together. We have a local school where Old Boys have already died or been maimed.

Rant over, comments please.

[indie cent]

Whilst in the public eye in the US wearing uniform recently, I was stopped and personally thanked for my efforts. Nothing even close to this has happened back home; it was very welcome and more than a little surprising.

This debate, I hope, is only just beginning. (and I hope it does not stop at a debate).

Let us not underestimate the importance of public support for our forces. Both now and the future.

Thank you Boris Johnson.

[dallas]

Although I broadly agree with the sentiments of the veteran at DFW, the British are a different mindset. Knowing the 'get on with it', almost cynical mood of HM Forces, I suspect anyone doing the same at LGW would be looked at as a bit of a nutcase. Rightly or wrongly the US wave more flags than us and believe mushy sentiments such as 'land of the free, home of the brave', and in many ways that's only ultimately got them into more nationalistic trouble later on!

We're much more reserved and less expressive, as both civilians and service people, and while there probably is the need for a mechanism for the public to express overt support, grannies queuing at Gate 1 at Brize isn't the answer.

Enforced parades isn't it either - certainly not in the RAF, where most people I know would do anything to get out of one!

[indie cent]

Rightly or wrongly the US wave more flags than us and believe mushy sentiments such as 'land of the free, home of the brave'


Yup, I can see your point Dallas. Undoubtedly our British reserve plays a part here.

However, does the more overt US support we see now not partly stem from the contrasting experience of returning Vietnam vets who were frequently shunned and misunderstood at that time?

Did America not learn to love its forces in exactly the manner that Boris alludes to: i.e. Blame the politicians for unpopular wars.

Why not welcome arrivals at Brize, it beats seeing peace protests.

After the Falklands returning troops saw a great example of the British Public in full support. Parades need not be a march past in dress uniform. Perhaps we could see the lads stepping off buses or ac to a bit of flag waving or cheers. The anglians have had a torrid time in Helmland and 2 VC recommendations to boot.

The country went completely doolally when Princess Diana died. Maybe we don't need to go overboard, but come on, the silence is deafening.:confused:

[dallas]

indie,

I think you're probably right that there is a sense of public guilt left over from Vietnam, while the vets themselves are seemingly keen to avoid a repeat of the 'guilty homecomings' of the 60s and 70s.

I also agree that forces on both sides of the Atlantic have remained largely apolitical; the US public generally support the troops even if they object to the policy, while in the UK all parties use our forces' successes or shortages of kit to make differing political points (my personal grievance is the use of troops as a backdrop for political statements, while denying the troops themselves the right to speak freely).

The reason for the difference in 'loving its forces' is certainly tied-in with patriotism and national identity. Lager-swilling morons in the UK default to signing the national anthem and wearing the Union Jack for short-term reasons like a football match, only prolonging this behaviour as long as England remain in the tournament. The same morons almost certainly wouldn't stand upon hearing the National Anthem in anything other than a sporting environment - probably because standing would require them to go against the group mentality that urges them to chant In-ger-land on other days.

The Falklands was a classic short-term war that allowed lager-swillers to get the flags out, in between World Cups, direct their jingoism towards an identifiable group - the Argies - while shouldering a clear sense of the UK being the victim of aggression. There were few question marks over the rights or wrongs of policy, purpose etc. In short, the Falklands was quick, relatively uncomplicated, and suited our takeaway society.

The problem with Afghanistan and Iraq is they're both long-term campaigns with unclear objectives, invisible enemies and, particularly in the case of Iraq, controversial motives. Add spin and the tabloids and dilute to taste! Both theatres lack significant Iwo Jima or Falklands-style victories and resultant flag-waving imagery - while underlying religious polarity requires successes to be dealt with sensitively!

The UK generally loves its forces too, although the press swings between 'SAS Hero' and 'Drunken Squaddie Rampage' stories at will. And while Americans hang on to their underlying patriotism, the UK public would be just as bored of X-Factor if it had gone on as long as GW2 without a clear winner.

[Lamenting Navigator]

Blimey, he's got my vote for saying stuff like that. About time too. Just a shame that the give-with-one-hand, taking-with-the-other government doesn't get it.

Well done, Boris. Someone give him a free flight!

[gar170]

All the country needs to do is just show a little sorry a lot more respect i think most troops would appreciate that more than just some parade passing some self important politician on a podium for a photo opportunity.
And

[vecvechookattack]

A good article by Boris (I wonder why) but he is totally correct to compare the medias lack of interest in the Armed Forces and yet they fill there pages about a missing 4 year old girl... Does anyone care?

[A2QFI]

I found this letter in today's DT. Shows how things have moved on since 1945 and who REALLY appreciates the British Military!
Sir – When my husband, serving with the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, returned from his last tour of Iraq in 2006, I was amazed and deeply touched to see the number of banners, Union flags and Saltires that were hung from shops and houses in order to welcome home the soldiers of his brigade (letters, September 28). The mayor arranged a big party in the local hall with supper and dancing.
Where do I live? Which small town had such palpable respect for these brave returning soldiers and their families who support them? We live in a small garrison town in northern Germany.
What a shame that the British people so intent on making a political point about unpopular wars, punish the selfless young men and women who volunteer to serve their country, instead of making their point at the ballot box.
Naomi Paterson, Bad Fallingbostel, Germany

[Guzlin Adnams]

A2QFI. Doesn't it make you proud to be British.:(
I guess what happens in our society and on the streets every day of the week is a sad reflection of a lack of genuine leadership for so many years.
Politicians putting themselves and "the party" first and not the country. Sadly that goes for a large percentage of the population as well.
All I can add is that my family and I appreciate greatly all that efforts that our servicemen make on our behalf. We also grieve for the fallen, their family and friends. I have had tears in my eyes many times when one of our servicemen has been killed. I look at my son and daughter can't help thinking that should they choose a career in the forces, one horrible day it could be them. I know that's selfish, I'm sorry.
Maybe they'll be no tickertape, no American stile pomp and no parades. Little gestures of thanks such as allowing them to jump the que in the bank, the pub or even the local chippy. Standing them a beer or two or just shaking a hand.
Good luck to you all and try to keep safe.
Mr, Mrs and the two little Guzlins.

[TOPBUNKER]

Bump!
And it's a shame that the Blue lot aren't in charge at the moment - we may have had one or two less wars to fight and Boris may have been more interested in doing the job as SoS for Defence than the Battle of Britain Service ignorant pratt that Brown appointed.