View Full Version : Md-90 Etops
citadel
26th Sep 2007, 18:14
Has anybody operated, or know of any MD90 operations that involve ETOPS (90 mins) and were they FAA or JAR operations? People seem to be taking narrow-bodies further afield these days. Many thanks in anticipation.
MD90 doesnt have the range to justify ETOPS.
Mutt
chornedsnorkack
26th Sep 2007, 20:39
MD90 doesnt have the range to justify ETOPS.
Seriously?
What exactly is the range where a regional jet DOES justify ETOPS?
60 minutes before midpoint, 60 minutes after midpoint. 400 knots with 1 engine out means 800 nautical miles distance is enough to be too far from returning or continuing in the middle. And surely MD-90 has longer range than this... SYD-AKL, 1169 nm, is impossible while staying within 60 minutes of diversion!
enicalyth
26th Sep 2007, 20:57
MD90? 3000nm range max on a dingo's breakfast (ie a pixx and lookaround)still air ISA? If it takes you 90mins to fly that far you are in an Airbus, shurely?
3000nm range max
We operate the aircraft in passenger and VIP service, we generally cant it beyond 4+ hours, approx 2000-2300 nms.
OK, back to the original question, are there any airlines operating the MD90 ETOPS? If not. why not?
Mutt
citadel
27th Sep 2007, 08:02
Mutt thanks for keeping on track. There are some origin/destination pairs 1500-2000nm apart separated by ocean/remote areas. An MD-90 costs $10m compared to a B737NG starting at $30m. As well as being RNP/MNPS compliant, is the MD-90 up to pax oxygen/fire suppressant requirements?
Why are you comparing the MD90 with 737NG, why not -400/500/600?
Look at the IFSD rate for the V2500 and see if it would achieve ETOPS approval.
Mutt
citadel
27th Sep 2007, 14:57
737NGs designed for ETOPS as I believe the MD-90 was. I've found a VIP operator, but thought maybe someone may have used MD-90 to Hawaii for example, and was after some practical experience. V2500 IFSD rate 6 times better than that required for ETOPS 180, so no problem there.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/oira/2120/meetings/525.pdf
Check out slide 6, it shows that the V2500 didnt achieve the required IFSD rates in 2006.
According to myboeingfleet the MD90 isnt ETOPS approved. The closest is the B717 with 75 minutes approval but no operators are using ETOPS.
Mutt
citadel
27th Sep 2007, 16:57
Thanks Mutt. Interesting MD80 series has better shutdown stats than MD90.......B757 with RR211-535C an interesting stat.......!
Alliance Airlines (Australia) gained ETOPS (75mins) for their F100, so I'm sure the MD90 could be granted ETOPS approval. BTW ETOPS regs are changing (at least in Australia) and I believe all jet aircraft will be granted 75 mins.
I fail to see the logic, so what if the Fokker 100 was granted ETOPS approval, it doesnt stand to reason that the MD90 would be. From our present experience with Boeing/Douglas, it would take a huge amount of money to encourage them to certify the aircraft for ETOPS.
Mutt
The point is any modern twin engine civil jet aircraft can gain etops approval if you are willing to invest some time and money into the project. Getting an approval (including etops) is a very hard process in Australia, as our CASA think they know more then the FAA.
Plus like I said the etops rules are changing and all aircraft (including the MD90) will be issused 75 mins.
captjns
29th Sep 2007, 09:04
Are the APUs contained on the MDs certified for APU operations inflight similar to the Boeing twin jets as US registered airliners which are required under FAA Advisory Circular AC120-32a?
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/2638eaf8b89680a8862569ba00751c8c/$FILE/Pages%201-15.pdf
citadel
29th Sep 2007, 09:06
Mutt, are you seeking to operate an MD-80/90 under ETOPS?
Boeing is not interested in investing ANY money in the MD-line. They already cut the 717, which was a real niche, and they only promote their own designs. Which I understand fully.
Dani
TWApilot
20th Oct 2007, 05:31
I flew MD80s on 5+30 flights frequently. Surely an MD90 could go that far as it is more fuel efficient.
It could easily be a problem with both cargo fire supression and also APU start capability, as well as electrical generators (no HMG) which might block ETOPS for MD90s.
Just guessing though.