Council Tax Rebate Announced

[Yeller_Gait]

No mention of it yesterday in the PM's speech, but it has just been announced that armed forces serving in Iraq and Afghanistan will get a rebate of £140 on their council tax for a 6 month tour.

Well that does make it all better then!

This is to be paid for out of the existing MOD budget, no extra government money, but obviously the government are trying to take the credit for it.

Nothing said about people on shorter tours, but I wouldn't be hopeful.

Y_G

[Fortyodd2]

"Right then young Atkins, off you go to Afghanistan for 6 months - but, seeing as you'll get R&R in the middle of your tour, it will be not quite 6 months so................"

Des giveth and Des taketh away..............:mad:

Wasn't that long ago that a certain AAC CO decided that the tour length was going to be 119 days to make the need for R&R unnecessary. Hope you get your OBE Sir.

[mutleyfour]

BBC reported that the said £140 was about 25% of a soldiers annual Council Tax, sadly thats only about a single month where I live.

[Al R]

Agreed. The troops haven't been given anything at all, he's just told the MoD to shuffle budgets about, and I'm sure it'll be clawed back somehow, in lower maintenance budgets, lower home to duty, lower training etc etc. More time wasting spin from a bunch of idiots for the troops. It'll differentiate too, between the troops who are there and the troops who are on other ops, why should they have to pay for their bins if they're in Africa, for instance?

It was probably done all at the last minute anyway and caught the MoD on the hop. The War Department website has nothing about it and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the brainwave of a dweeb who thought it would be a no cost high froth content measure to make up for Broons apathy towards the military in his speech, which I thought, was mirrored by the delegates yesterday in general.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7011568.stm

Incidentally, the BBC bird referred to the Armed 'Services'. Is this change of title official? Perish the thought that we might have a 'force' any longer. Or maybe pragmatism at least, is alive and well.

[tmmorris]

I think, mutleyfour, that it was supposed to be 25% of the council tax while you are on OOA, i.e. 25% of six months' worth of tax, or 12.5% of the annual total.

But it seriously stinks that it's to come out of the MOD budget. Unless, of course, he's about to announce a big increase in the latter.

oink, flap, oink, flap, oink, flap...

Tim

[blogger]

Har, Har, Har Government fingers in pies, why not just let the individual claim the 25% discount from their council for any deployment JPA will not get involved so much simpler.

Once again this has not been thought out. a single person in their own home all ready gets a 25% council tax discount on their own home will this be seen as a double refund? or WTF..............

So how many 18 to 25 year old army guys own their own home...!!!!! 1 or 2 % max 3 % would be my guess.

[FantomZorbin]

Would this be where the money's coming from ... http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=293493
by any chance?:*:mad::mad:

[Pontius Navigator]

No mention of it yesterday in the PM's speech, but it has just been announced that armed forces serving in Iraq and Afghanistan will get a rebate of £140 on their council tax for a 6 month tour.

Well that does make it all better then!


Figures. He mentioned British and Britishness 71 times but Iraq and Afghanistan just once each. He could hardly have ignored them completely but that was clearly what he would have prefered.

Had he mentioned it then he would have had to talk about the British Army which would not have fitted in his speech and may be Des was planning to announce it later? Or was it buried deliberately?

[Mr-AEO]

:confused:£140 is 25% of average Band D Council Tax Bill:confused:

How the hell did they work out the average???

Average in my area is about £1200, which makes the 25% figure £320 ish.

To get £140 as 25%, your average Band D bill would need to be £560!!!

This is barking mad.

Secondly, why is the MOD having to self-fund these subsidies? Whatever we pay for this, must surely mean an 'efficiency' somewhere else.:ugh:

[VinRouge]

Hows About We Get Our 70 Euros A Day In Nato Pay That Gets Stolen From Us Whilst We Are In Helmand?

[Green Flash]

Vin :ok:
The Pole is was working with in Afg a year or two ago was drawing (well, banking) his Polish Air Force pay AND his NATO money too - he was going home to a new flat and new BMW (and probably new girlfriend. Or two). OK, cost of living UK/Poland comments noted, thank you. But where DOES our NATO dosh go, eh?

[tyne]

Hi I am a journalist doing a story on this for GMG Radio - Century Real and Smooth stations.

I would very much like to hear what service people think about this.

If you are interested, please PM me.

Regards

Dan Entwisle.

[mutleyfour]

Maybe the money goes on Gordo's new £800 suits which are supposed to improve his image and make him look the part of PM!

[mutleyfour]

Dan, Don't need to pm:

Its simply not going to effect any kind of change. This will not reduce the outflow and certainly won't encourage floods of applicants to the AFCO's either. To me its just a watse of time and just amplifies the complete disregard that Gordon Browne has for the Armed Forces, the Soldiers Covenant, and the daily sacrifices given in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[abbotyobs]

I am sorry but in theatre it has become a standing joke to how little extra cash the Brits receive compared to their NATO colleagues.
The NATO pay that we should get and everyone else gets amounts to thousands of euros per month!

[Fortyodd2]

As Mutley has already stated, there's no need for PMs. Just keep watching this thread. If you look closely at some of the replies and dig a little deeper then you'll probably have enough to do a whole series of programs.

[South Bound]

Thing is, we all want HM Forces to get the recognition they deserve, but we will all be banging our heads on the table at this pointless and shallow gesture knowing that the MoD will have to rape another one of its hard-pressed budgets to fund it. So what will give, Mr Browne (Swiss Des)? Will you slow up the upgrading of single living accommodation and the SFA? Will you downgrade some kit that we need (or is that 'accept a capability holiday'?).

Anyone that thinks this will make a blind bit of difference to anyone in the Forces is deluding themselves and trying to pull the wool over the eyes of an electorate that does not care about defence. Sadly, even this seemingly positive gesture will be seen as another insult and do nothing to help the Forces feel wanted/valued/rewarded/motivated/committed. Sounds ungrateful, but we understand the true cost and limited benefit of the gesture.

[SilsoeSid]

I had to chuckle at the absurdity of it when I heard this on the radio.

£140, as Mutley says, that would cover a months council tax!
In addition, when it gets paid in, I wouldn't be surprised if it will then become part of the taxable income! :rolleyes:

Quite frankly Gordo, why bother! Why not start off by housing the troops as well as you do your traditional supporters who, by the way, get more in benefits than Joe Squaddie receives pay in doing service on your behalf! :ugh:

£140, I bet that just about covers lunch per head at Westminster ! :oh:


Mind you, if it's not being destroyed, the troops could always be allowed a share of the poppie crops that they are defending in Afghanistan! And they could be also allowed to import them into the country under the veil of rememberance day decorations! :eek:
(p.s. don't forget to downgrade it first!)

Silly idea! Watch this space!! :ok:

[tyne]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

What I really wanted was someone to do a recorded phone interview with me...No names etc which I could put into a programme package.

But thanks for your replies so far. I can read them out myself on air.

Regards

Dan

[[email protected]]

Tyne - why don't you write an article asking why the MoD has to fund the campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq when it is Govt business and should come from Govt coffers?

I believe the Govt has to fund a war but these campaigns are not war and therefore have to be funded from the massively depleted Defence Budget.

I suspect that this is why first Tony and now Gordon are so happy to send off troops to the front-line in their 'global war against terror' and 'gosh aren't we fabulous international statesmen and peacekeepers' - they don't have to pay for it and can get on with f88king up the NHS, police, education etc etc in an effort to hang on to power.

[Al R]

Tell us when and the Freq please Dan.

There will be no real benefit for the troops. The Scotsman reports how neatly the MoD massages figures, and this business of shuffling money around is just another instance. The troops are supposed to be grateful that they are being given some money back, which they shouldn't have to cough up in the first place! Why should they be made to feel grateful when this little titbit is granted to them?

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1034&id=1450262007

Since labour came to power, eqpt 'incidents' have risen at an alarming rate. A Hercules that can be shot down with a £200 missile, no helicopters, landrovers with no protection, and of course, no proper combat body armour for teeth arm troops. And yet look at this.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/newspapers/sunday_times/britain/article1290333.ece

While the living conditions of service families decline even further, while troops can't even rely on their ammunition working correctly, over £2 billion is being spent on nice new offices and canteens. How many battlefield helicopters would that buy? Of course, money has to be spent on modernising across the board, but where are the priorities?

I suppose we should be happy that the council tax rebate only reflects the part time our troops are away from their home. After all, Broon only sees fit to give the UK a part time Secretary of State for Defence (who can't even be arsed to attend a service to remember those who died in the Battle of Britain anyway).

[mutleyfour]

I think its worth mentioning it seems to be only for those personnel whom own their own home and not living in Service accomodation.

[tyne]

If you are in NE England, There should be something on Century FM in the 1300 news....100-102 FM.

There'll be something offered to our network for later in the day. Whether it's used is up to individual editors at stations.

[teeteringhead]

Thanks Dan, and for your implicit support.:ok:

...is that a shadow of Grays Lane I see......

Does your station "stream" on the net for the benefit of those of us outside VHF range of Geordieland...

[mutleyfour]

Thanks Dan , nice to see someone thinks its worthwhile highlighting!

[blogger]

Mutleyfour yes you are right 'only those in their own homes' see my first post.

At the end of the day 140 quid for 182 days = 76p a day

Makes for head lines but at the end of the day we as servicemen like to see the small print first.

251 UK deaths in Iraq and Afgan (so far)............... all for 76p a day...........

[Mr-AEO]

What/how much is this additional pay that non-UK NATO troops get? As this is a NATO Operation, why are UK Service Personnel in the same theatre not getting it?

[tyne]

www.centuryfm.co.uk Click on the map for the North East and there is a listening function on there.

I might have time to offer it to our our other stations for 1300. But it will deffo go out on Century Today with Stephanie Finnon.

Dan

[wobble2plank]

I thought Gordo's speech at the conference yesterday was also fantastic.
I was moved, nay almost to tears, at the sincerity in his voice when he promised to sort out all of the poor funding and mess that the previous D'oh! his Government has caused.

I cannot believe that after all these years that spin and bull$hit still prevails. As has been said before on this thread it is the 'Social' contingent that still get him elected to continue to screw the military for all it's worth.
Sorry to see yet another drop for the military under the guise of a 'payback', sad to say that I am glad I jumped when I did.

p.s. £140 works out at about 5% of my council tax, shove it up your ar$s Gordo.
Best of luck boys, hope to see you in the real world soon. :D

[Wader2]

Now if local coucils cared to take the initative and rebate 50% of the actual tax. After all the homes are now occupied by just one person or if a singlie it may even be empty or how about a full rebate?

[Al R]

I've just worked out why there's no rebate to pay.

When the troops spend 3 months in a shell scrape in Helmand, it can be argued by Broon, Broon & Co of Edinburgh that there is an improvement in their living conditions and that an increase would be prudent, not a rebate.

[tyne]

For those that missed it, there will be another report at 1700 which will go out in the North East and North West.

Again, thanks for your input on this.

Dan

[osbo]

Brian Sewell summed up the situation in Britain today nicely on a recent R4 prog about experiences of National Service:

http://195.210.38.41:2084//dl/e16285839fea6b804397c72cb9ca4023/46f9503d/file01/250907/1190725565/Brian%20Sewell%20-%20****%20britain.mp3


or here:


http://www.mooload.com/new/file.php?file=file01/250907/1190725565/Brian+Sewell+-+****+britain.mp3&s=t
Scroll down to "download link" and click on server 1 or 2.

[Al R]

Some interesting comments.

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=7470&sortBy=1&edition=2&ttl=20070925150256

[mutleyfour]

Read some of those comments and particularly had a problem with statements like:

"Nurses and Teachers dont get a rebate so why should Servicemen?"

Simply because the Servicemen/women are working overseas you numpty and therefore unable to have the Police respond to an emergency, take pleasure in walking a streetlamped road, put the rubbish at the bottom of the path etc etc.

[greycoat]

Truly disappointing to read most of those comments made by people ignorant of the true situation and T&Cs of miltary folk. The lack of awareness demonstrated probably means that most of the voting public will be taken in, possibly paving the way for other salami cuts to be made elsewhere as the offest within the MOD budget. We may not agree with the the US policy towards Iraq but it is difficult to fault their support towards serving and retired military.

[Mr-AEO]

From most articles I have seen, US 'Combat Pay' come from their Defense Budget. At least they get that at $250 per month, qualifying time = 1 day.

And, can we really blame Joe Public for not understanding the military? If they are against Gov't policy, they are not likely to be supportive of the Armed Forces are they. As with riots, strikes etc; I've never understood why Joe Public attacks PC Plod, it's not as if the Police closed the coal mines or are running G4 summits is it.

[VinRouge]

I believe nato pay, from those we have spoke to in theatre, adds up to around 50 Euro a day. Kind of P*sses on the op allowance doesnt it? Oh, and the same guys pay no income tax, which we do.

Frikkin socialists should be put up against my wall and shot!!!

[greycoat]

News24 carrying a pro- rather than anti military slant, emphasising the messages from serving personnel criticising the cheap political gesture. What chance the rest of the media may take up the story (Tyne excepted since he has already reported the topic)?

[wobble2plank]

The most distressing thing I can find is that Joe Public sees the military there as 'what the military wants' therefore when it comes to spending, T's & C's, manpower and equipment status, it is seen as 'well they want to be out there don't they'. It's all the big knobs in Whitehall that decide all this lot innit? Why should we fund them when they are having 'fun in the sun' :mad:

Unfortunately, there seem to be very few politicians with the balls to stand up and say 'Well, actually GI Joe doesn't want to be out there in the hell hole of Iraq/Afganistan/Dafur etc..., He wants to be back in the country that he's still paying council tax for, in the cr@p accomodation we charge him over the top for. It is us politicians who have decided to deploy the military and demand they fund the 'operation' from their ever decreasing budget while we tax the very people who are 'defending justice and fighting OUR war on terror.'

Funny? Seemed to be no mention of that in Gordo's speech either :ugh:

[Al R]

Mutley4 and Greycoat,

Agreed. The problem is, a g'ment weiner will use that sort of data as a measure of public opinion. Its lucky the lads have the Airships fighting so hard for them then.

:oh:

[abbotyobs]

NATO pay is around 70 euros a day with most countries adding a certain amount to make it larger, apart from the UK Gov who actually keeps for itself, 50 euros a day, to leave around 20 euros a day for the plucky Brits.
A recent straw poll
Belgium 120 euros a day extra
Norway 130 euros
Netherlands 90 euros
US,CAN,AUS tax free salary across all ranks plus combat bonus pay
UK 20 euros a day tax free fixed amount, mmm!

[Mobile Muppet]

It's been a long time since i posted last but the topic of NATO pay is one that really grips me. I don't mind doing my stints away but seeing other partner nations getting the respect and welfare compared to us is depressing. I would love someone (JOURNO) to delve into where our nato pay goes and why. 70 euros per day/ per service man is a hell of alot of money. Feathering the nests and perks of our already over paid polititions and senior civil servents i feel !

[Al R]

I was told by a serving NCO earlier today, that singlies might have to pay full food and accom from the moment they are detached on training courses.. is this right, or did I get the wrong end of the wedge?

[Pontius Navigator]

I was told by a serving NCO earlier today, that singlies might have to pay full food and accom from the moment they are detached on training courses.. is this right, or did I get the wrong end of the wedge?

The rules changed 1 Jul I believe. If you meant singlies that live out and pay rent at their parent station then they will be in the same boat as everyone else.

The wrong end of the wedge you are talking about is the one with sticky brown bits on it.

[Al R]

Sorry. I meant to say Scalies. It was hard to hear clearly, what was being said though, there was quite a lot of profanity..

[45 before POL]

Same old Government...same old spin!......a disgrace this comes out of the Defence budget which is struggling as it is. This is robbing peter to pay paul. I agree this should be refunded by the councils automatically and let the tax payer(i being one) pick it up. Huge appreciation to the work you guys/girls do.....about time this leadership sat up and took notice......after all ...a certain person is considering an election:E:E:E

[Compressorstall]

The problem is that the majority of the UK population has no contact with the military and to them the Govt is seen to be doing something positive. They don't care if we are in a shell scrape in Sangin getting shelled for 19 hrs, they prefer to read the story of the female Lt sh***ing her Troop Sgt, or the Air Marshal spending thousands on new curtains and an air conditioned dog kennel - how do you put a price on what we do? Ask Mrs CS as she is the one who sits at home whilst I suddenly have to leg it from the phone due to an insurgent sponsored interruption, she has to explain to the kids why my flight home is delayed, she has to run the house and compare her lifestyle to those of her peers whose husbands work in civvy jobs... Yes we have a great job, but now we are in a Coalition, the things we compare are not pay rates with our Allies, but the perks we get compared to Aus and US, just like anyone who works for BT or HSBC. If you don't want to make our time overseas tax-free Mr Brown, then provide us with stability for our families, postings officers who are compassionate to the needs of our families, help with mortgages wherever we live, continuing professional development, equipment that works and that is available to train on so that we can train the newer generations.
In short, stuff your council tax - support your military properly - although I have just seen Miliband stating that there "never is a military solution" - must be based on his time attending an OTC Cocktail Party...why did they send us to Iraq then? Good to know we're directed by people who know what they're on about. Is there an election due?

[Fearofabluntplanet]

To be fair to Miliband, what i think he meant was that the military cannot ultimately provide a satisfactory solution to any foreign policy issue. We can only hope to provide the initial impetus toward that end state.

Ie Afghanistan will remain a problem until the military have been able to create enough breathing space for a meaningful civil society to develop, eventually becoming robust enough to provide its own internal security. In that sense the final solution is a civil, not a military, issue.

Sorry to get off topic there... This council tax rebate does seem to be a bit of a p--- take though!

[Fareastdriver]

Times don't change. In Cyprus in the seventies the then Labour govenment ensured that all British UN personnel spent time in an SBA so as to interrupt there continous service in Cyprus. This ensured that they were not entitled to United Nations pay whilst the Irish, Danish, Canadians, Finns and Aussies were all wallowing in dollars.

[10enggone]

It will never be given to those who earn it as the majority of the public have no interest in the military and this allows government after government to take the NATO pay and add it to budgets that will get votes.

And the new addition of paying for food and accom when you are on a course......They'll claw back well in excess of the trifling amount they will refund in council tax and most likely put it into another budget that will help when Broon does call an election

And if he loses the winning party will do the same....different party same result :mad:in' :mad:ers

Rant over

[Stuff]

A few people have mentioned single person's council tax discount earlier in this thread.

Some months ago my wife headed off to Iraq (4 month tour) and I applied to the council for the 25% single person's discount. I was told that I wasn't eligable as our house in the UK would still be her "permanent residence" and she was only temporarily away. This was a private home not Families Quarters.

Have I been fed a line here? :confused:
Has anyone successfully claimed the discount for a deployment?

[Wrathmonk]

Stuff

Wife tried to claim the discount when I deployed on TELIC 1 but with no success (despite support from the local Tory MP). However, I was entitled to a 25% discount whilst I was a full time, living in, "mature" student (but returned home every weekend). Go figure!

Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier in the thread but I have heard that being banged up at HMs pleasure allows your wife/husband/partner a 25% reduction in council tax. Anyone able to confirm?:*

Edited to add ... just been to Google and found the following link (http://www.reading.gov.uk/adviceandbenefits/counciltax/General.asp?id=SX9452-A7816E51). Whilst it is for Reading Council I'm sure they are all the same. Confirms my suspicion that you are entitled to a council tax discount if somenone formally in the property is now in prison or held somewhere else by the authorities. I'm sure a good lawyer could argue that personnel deployed OOA are being "held somewhere else by the authorities".:ok: