What counts as P1 time for ATPL

[Tortuous Convolulus]

Tried looking up this thread or something similar but because it comes in at quite a short thread, no seaches appear so apologies if that is not the case. Looking to getting an ATPL, already have all other requirements apart from P1 time. Work for one of the big operators in north sea where all aircraft flown are multi-crew. My question is although OPC and LPC count as PICUS in the logbook because they are flown to P1 Standard does this mean they can count towards P1 time. Secondly when in the simulator with two co -pilots is the pilot in charge able to claim P1 although he is not "captain" of an aircraft. Tried with CAA but to no joy. Thanks in advance for all help.

[MK10]

i would start with asking your chief pilot what company policy is on logging time.
then i would refer to jar ops 3, lasors, and or caa website.

[Veni_vidi_vici]

JAR-FCL 2.280: for ATP you need 250 hrs p1 of which 150 can be p1us

[HeliComparator]

To answer your specific question, you cannot claim P1 time in a heavy multi-pilot heli sim with 2 copilots because without the ATPL, you are not qualified to fly that aircraft as P1. For the LPC I think you can claim P1 if you pass, not so sure about the OPC but that is all irrellevant because:

With the advent of JAR-FCL2 amendment 6 which you can find at http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/607096.pdf (search for 280)
its slightly more complicated (but better for you!) than VVV indicates. There is a new paragraph within 2.280 that reads, for P1 time requirement in place of the 250 hrs as 100hrs P1 and 150 hrs P1us:

OR
(ii) 250 hours as co-pilot on
helicopters operated in accordance with JARFCL
2.280(a)(1) performing, under the
supervision of the pilot-in-command the
duties and functions of a pilot-in-command
provided that the method of supervision is
acceptable to the Authority, and the ATPL
privileges shall be limited to multi-pilot
operations only;

ie you don't need any actual P1 time, but you are limited to multi pilot helicopters until you have 100hrs actual P1, which if you are flying N Sea (multi-pilot) is not an issue.

The complication is that the UK CAA have not yet ratified amendment 6 as changes to the ANO are required, but they have published an AIC (you can look it up!) which indicates that certain elements of the amendment came into force about a month ago, including the change to 2.280.

Bottom line - as of a month or so ago, you just need the P1US time plus the other stuff, no actual P1!
HC

[Hummingfrog]

I think that the problem may arise in how the CAA interprets:-

"provided that the method of supervision is
acceptable to the Authority"

In the "old" days a signature by any Captain was sufficient but the actual supervision varied with this relaxation of the requiements I could see the CAA requiring the P1U/s to be flown with a line trainer which would be a more sensible approach.

HF