F3 doing 55 on M4 at 1330

[Al R]

On the M4 today, heading east close to the M25, I passed a couple of low loaders, each with a F3 fuselage on, no engines, canopy etc. They were unprotected to the elements (pissing down), so I was thinking.. where might they have come from, and why, and where could they be going? They were grubby, but could have been so from extended storage. As we are getting rid of F3s, are we already flogging off the spare bits in advance.. if not, why weren't they better protected?

Also, do I remember correctly, but did the Eyeties lease some off us in the 1980's?

Cheers.

[Archimedes]

Italians leased 24, IIRC - but from 1995.

[Al R]

Thanks.

What happens(ed) to them.. do we have them back, are they in storage just waiting to be scrapped? Why did they have them, what did they replace or what gap were they intended to fill? Is operating the F3 a lot different to flying the GR?

Just being curious, I was wondering.

edit: "For 10 years the Italian Airforce used as gap-filler (between Starfighter F-104 and the introduction of EF-2000) 24 Tornado ADV, leased from the Royal Air Force."

[Archimedes]

Al - the Italians replaced them with F-16s because, like the other nations, they were still waiting for the Typhoon (thanks to the egregious Herr Ruhe's little machinations), didn't wish to participate in the CSP upgrade and felt that the F-16 met their needs better than the F3.

IIRC the airframes were returned to the UK for storage.

Thinking about it, I also have a vague memory of a tale that an Italian F3 achieved a lock on a Serbian MiG-29 during Allied Force, but the Serbian aircraft ran for home when he realised this had occurred.

[Safety_Helmut]

What happens(ed) to them.. do we have them back, are they in storage just waiting to be scrapped? Why did they have them, what did they replace or what gap were they intended to fill?
sh!tload of mods: reverse gear, white flags, interchangeable insignia, espresso machine + pizza oven in rear seat, storage for Armani flying suit etc.

[Al R]

.. thanks Archimedes. It must be hugely innefficient to change ac types so frequently (unless its for one which does what it says on the tin of course). I'm usually wrong, but hasn't the F3 managed not to shoot anything down to date? Amusing that the honour could have gone to an Italian..

The low loaders looked like they were scrappies' ones. A sad end to something that had thousands of hours spent building it. Perhaps its just indicative of time passing. I remember seeing my first Tornado low over North Luffenham, wings swept back, and being told that was 'the future'.

[Checkflaps]

:{Saw the 2 Tonkas, whats left of them, heading East between Chippenham and Membury between 1320 and 1350 (I work on that section of the M4) Took a couple of snaps on my phone. Will up load them when I can.

Looked like 2 Italian F3's based on the writing on the side.

I would assume that they were off to the scrapper. Shame.:{

CF

[NutLoose]

These people used to have some...

Tut none in stock at mo, the rest, such as wings, fin etc look under aircraft spares

http://www.everettaero.com/


They will do you a nice jumping bean or a Jaguar..

Or even a Dominie for £45,000

[Al R]

Checkflaps, thats where I saw them too, east of Membury. I didn't recognise the insignia, I thought it was just stenciling with some storage guff on.

(Were you the Highways Agency traffic officer eating a burger?!)

Nutloose, I like that Strikemaster. The Harrier though, is almost unused.

I wonder what that would go for, and what the restrictions on use and end user are.

[BluntM8]

Sadly, the F3 fleet has been being broken up for some time. I first encountered it at Leeming about 18 months ago on a visit to 100 Sqn. In the hangar next to the Sqn HQ was a fuselage on pallets so I went for a nosey at it. The very helpful Chief Tech showed me around the hangar and explained things.

Seemingly, each airframe has a list of about 600 or so components designated for spares recovery. His team then had to retieve these from the aircraft by whatever means they could. Oftentimes, that meant boltcutters, anglegrinders or big shears. The leftovers were then scrapped. I was offered the chance to take what I wanted from a large skip of cut away panels - I was tempted to take a few for eBay, but anything obviously identifiable as a Tornado panel was gone already! The team were jealously guarding a written off fin cap in beautiful fresh "Firebirds" markings! The final skeleton fuselage goes on a truck to a scrappy at the end of the whole process.

One interesting thing which came up was the fate of the wing centre box. For those not in the know, it's a huge lump of titanium which goes from one wing pivot to the other and provides most of the strength of the centre fuselage. (Apparently, when it is removed the whole thing sags inwards by several inches.) It has a scrap value of about £2000. I was told that the stripping down of the aircraft was contracted to BAE Systems, and the work carried out by RAF personnel at Leeming had been subcontracted back to the RAF. Therefore, both BAE and the RAF were laying claim to the wing boxes and there was quite a battle as to who would get the money!

Blunty

[Sospan]

More information can be found here (http://www.tornado-data.com/Tid/galleries/end_of_an_era.htm)...... But beware you may need a few tissues if you are of a teary disposition.

[Gainesy]

ISTR that Airworks started the scrapping process at St Athan much earlier than that.

[danieloakworth]

Not nice seeing your jets in that state.

[Ken Scott]

Before I joined the RAF I worked at Warton, when these aircraft were being assembled, I used to show parties of visitors around the production line - sad to seem them like this.

[Al R]

I remember a Cypriot wanting to buy the Vulcan on the pan at Akr, and turning it into a cafe, and being told where to get off. Is that still there?

In 30 years, there'll be loads of as yet unborn lads saying 'Look what they did with those vintage Tornados!!'. I wonder how much an airframe will go for. It'd make a great basis for a rich boy's ultimate sim game. I suppose too, with fewer ac and more committments, we'll be seeing Typoon airframes coming to the end of their lifes (pro rata) a lot sooner, and when will Wittering please replace that GR3?!! I'm sure there is something more up to date and/or more suitable (like an artic? :E).

[Wrathmonk]

But will there be a campaign to keep an F3 and GR4 in flying condition ..... Gulf War Memorial Flight perhaps?

.... although of course in 30 years time the GR4 may still be in front line service whilst we wait for the Typhoon to get an OS capability and JSF to have achieved IOC!:E

[Al R]

Thats a good point actually; do 'we' keep any F4s etc flying, for future use? Or is it because they're just too complicated? I can imagine what we'd say if the Admiralty said, a couple of hundred years ago.. 'Nah, no one will ever be bothered with The Victory'. It seems dreadfully short sighted.

[Archimedes]

Al - there's a Bucc owned by HS Aviation that's still flying (or about to), but the F-4 would have to be operated by an RAF historic flight, both in terms of complexity even if the CAA were to permit a civvy operator to use it the original sales deal means that handing them on to a civilian owner is nigh-on-impossible.

[Sospan]

And the cost of keeping a single jet as complexed as that flying would be absolutely crazy.

[Al R]

Cheers chaps.

I appreciate the costs involved.. I wonder if anyone has investigated the chances of commercial support? I'm not suggesting seeing a Virgin logo on the fin on the Buccaneer, and I'm aware that getting the Vulcan has been a Herculean task, but keeping them going, as opposed to restoring them would be cheaper. Possibly.

I wonder if the willingness for anyone to sponsor such a deal (up high) is the kiss of political death? We handed the married quarters over to the Japs, have civvies train aircrew.. so I'm sure that if the political will was there somehow, it'd be in with a shout. The problem is I suppose, its in no one's individual careerist interests. Its a long termer, there are too many risks and too many easy reasons (many valid) to file 13 the plan.

[Geehovah]

I'd prefer to remember those F2s in a better light
Here's one from the Queen's Birthday Flypast in 1986; still new and shiney
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/QBF8.jpg