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Category 5
19th Sep 2007, 10:09
:mad:

Flew STN to EDI last week.

Normal crap procedure commence for boarding the aircraft. Busy flight almost at capacity.

I find an empty row and take my seat by the window. Now I wait for the inevitable - the annoying, smelly passanger from hell.

Anyway, immediatley I spot him. A 40 Year old male, staggering along the aisle, obviously (in my opinion) intoxicated. he is going to sit next to me. Yup - sure enough, Mr Pax from hell (PFH) takes his aisle seat whilst dumping his coat, bag and general filth in the spare seant between us.

Anyway to cut this sorry saga short Mr PFH presses the attention button 3 times before take off. He wants champagne. But it must be chilled. Then after some unbelievable comments in my direction such as 'where are we going' 'what day is it' etc he asks for drinks to be served. He has changed his mind about the Champers and instead wants wine, anyway the thing is the chief stewardess is fully aware of his state and proceeds to give in to his wishes. 2 bottles of wine later and he is shouting we are being hijacked, I'll kill you all etc

This could have escalated into a sever situation if people around him had reacted.

After landing I had a long chat with the captain and chief stewaress and asked them to explain there policies and procedures of dealing with a drunk individual. I was told that for short haul flights it is more hassle not to give him the drinks than it would have been not to serve him.

There is no follow up possible due to the fact there is no seat allocation as his identity is a mystery.

In hind sight, I wish I had asked for the old bill to be called on landing.

Anyone else had similar experiences. How would you have reacted?

PS. My summary does not even come close to describing the seriousness of the events that took place.

BBox
19th Sep 2007, 10:30
Hope this helps

[QUOTE][/ had a long chat with the captain and chief stewaress and asked them to explain there policies and procedures of dealing with a drunk individual.QUOTE]

"Conduct on board"

As Part of the onboard service, easyjet will supply and serve, if appropriate and at the airline's discreation, alcoholic beverages to passengers. However, passengers are not allowed to consume alcoholic beverages which they have supplied themselves or have been supplied by third parties other than the easykiosk onboard the flight.

Passengers are reminded that in accordance with UK and international law the Captain is in command of the aircraft and every person on board shall obey his or her lawful commands.

All captains on all airlines are given authority to deal with passengers who misbehave, are disruptive, or otherwise cause problems by whatever means the captain thinks fit. This may include removal from the flight of such persons and, if a diversion has been necessitated, handing over those persons to security or policing personnel on the ground.

[QUOTE][for short haul flights it is more hassle not to give him the drinks than it would have been not to serve him]

FWOF
19th Sep 2007, 12:23
Can't agree more with this post regarding Easyjet continuing to let p*ssed pax onbaord AND to continuing to serve them one they are on. I fly home from Belfast International every Friday and WITHOUT fail, each week there are rowdy groupd of stags and hens and general other p*ssed up lads that stagger onto the plane, stinking of booze, who spend the flight talking at full volume, every other word is f*ck and they can't get the alcohol in quick enough. The other side to that is of course the queue for the toilets is ridiculous.

I'm not a good flyer, I've only just overcome a terrible phobia, so I'm always very stressed when the likes of these manage to get sat in the exit rows.

I'm not surprised to hear Easyjet say that it's less hassle to serve them, but to me, that's an outright cop out. I think it's disgusting, but you know it'll never change, until something awful happens, which seems to be the prompt for changes in rules and regulations.

Santas Little Helper
19th Sep 2007, 12:58
Passenger handling agents at the departure gate are not supposed to allow drunken passengers to board the aircraft. They do not even need to ask the captain if they want to offload someone but of course it is much easier for them to get rid of such passengers by allowing them to board the aircraft and hope nobody notices.

Avman
19th Sep 2007, 13:45
If the above example typifies Easy's policy then the answer must be DON'T FLY WITH THEM.

Drunken passengers ARE a SAFETY ISSUE.

warkman
19th Sep 2007, 14:14
That's what happens when you let Stelios sit next to you. :p:p

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
19th Sep 2007, 14:26
If the above example typifies Easy's policy then the answer must be DON'T FLY WITH THEM.


Funny thing is (well, not really), if you want to go from BRS to GLA, there's no bloody choice!

The MoD bludgeoned people into using EZY instead of BA. BACON was sold off and the route closed. Now there's no competition and we fly at silly times.

Disengaging bind mode; now, now, now!

FWOF
19th Sep 2007, 16:13
Thing is, as much as they seem happy to get the drunks on board and get them drunker, I still like the airline and it's service. I just worry that one day, a bunch of drunks will cause some problems, and I can't see 3 or 4 cabin crew manhandling drunken types ... it just ain't happening! I watched in amazement last week as the flight for Manchester or Glasgow was called, and 4 people stayed at the bar until they were begged to put their glasses down and join the flight! WTF is that all about?!

10secondsurvey
19th Sep 2007, 19:00
Have to say I tend to avoid most Euro budget carriers. But, the story being told here is shocking, and I'm astonished at the attitude of the crew/captain.

It just really makes a mockery of any notion of safety if that is the attitude of the staff.

I know people will jump to the defence of the staff, saying it's not their fault the pax are animals, but really, at what point WILL an easyjet captain take responsibility?

corsaman
19th Sep 2007, 20:57
I have operated flights where large numbers of exceptionally merry/boisterous people have boarded, particularly on Friday nights, between NCL/LPL and BFS, and have made the decision not to offer a bar service of any kind. A firm but courteous announcement was all that was needed, and the Flight Crew and my Line Manager backed me up on each occasion. Rival Jet2, incidentally, does not currently offer any refreshments on very short sectors anyway. On each of my flights, several passengers not connected with the stag groups etc expressed their gratitude, and as the flights were all under 40 minutes long, it wasn't long to wait.

frequentflyer2
19th Sep 2007, 21:40
'....and I can't see 3 or 4 little female cabin crew manhandling drunken irish types....'


Is the use of the word Irish really necessary here? Is it easier for 'three or four little female cabin crew' to 'manhandle' drunken scottish, english or welsh 'types' as opposed to intoxicated people from the Emerald Isle?
I'm sorry but I feel the above quote is vaguely sexist and more than vaguely racist.
The truth of the matter is drunken passengers are a problem for airline crews whether they originate in Belfast, Glasgow, Cardiff or London.
Nor is easyJet the only offender.
Several years ago my wife and I went on holiday to Corfu from Gatwick Airport with what was then Britannia.
One woman and her husband had consumed so much alcohol they had to use one of the little transporters which run up and down between the departure lounge and the gates to get to the aircraft.
They staggered on board - the woman was particularly legless - and a member of the cabin crew did ask the pilot to speak to them.
He appeared to decide it was fine for them to fly and off we went.

Phileas Fogg
19th Sep 2007, 23:31
Ever heard the saying 'You get what you pay for'?

P.S. I don't do LCC's!

PAXboy
20th Sep 2007, 01:26
FWOF I am sorry to hear about this and can only suggest that you write to the airline and the to the regulating authority which is the CAA. If we do not tell the CAA about these things - then they will never know. This is particularly the case if an intoxicated person (who should not be on board anyway) is seated in an emergency row.

I think the relevant section is: Responsibilities of the Cabin Safety Office
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=884

The primary aims of the Cabin Safety Office are:
(there is a list of nine but this is the one that you can use)
* To provide guidance and advice to the travelling public on matters of operational cabin safety.

FlyerFoto
20th Sep 2007, 07:42
We used to get similar problems on late night trains out of Leeds - we would call station security if we had concerns about anyone, they may call British Transport Police who would 'have a word' with the offending individual(s) and then declare that 'they are OK to travel and have promised to behave'

Some back-up would be nice, but given the option of refusing to take the train, which would also be the crew's trip home and wouldn't go down well with the company who would be faced with a huge fine, or the passengers (sorry, customers!!) who were behaving themselves, what choice is there, really?

Pretty much the same sort of thing as above - get them off our patch and let someone else have the problem!

FWOF
20th Sep 2007, 08:24
'....and I can't see 3 or 4 little female cabin crew manhandling drunken irish types....'


Is the use of the word Irish really necessary here? Is it easier for 'three or four little female cabin crew' to 'manhandle' drunken scottish, english or welsh 'types' as opposed to intoxicated people from the Emerald Isle?
I'm sorry but I feel the above quote is vaguely sexist and more than vaguely racist.
The truth of the matter is drunken passengers are a problem for airline crews whether they originate in Belfast, Glasgow, Cardiff or London.
Nor is easyJet the only offender.


I can ONLY base my comments on experience, and fact. I fly from Belfast, therefore the majority of the pax ARE Irish, but not all. AND they ARE bigger and stronger than the petite female cabin crew AND male cabin crew. This is just fact. Not me having a go or disrespecting anybody. I would say the same thing if I flew out of Glasgow, Liverpool or London on a Friday, but I don't. But this is not the matter in hand in this thread.

FWOF
20th Sep 2007, 08:26
PAXboy - I read this off the CAA site, so maybe concerned PAX should go down the route you suggest, but I can't see it making any difference, if any :sad:

What is the policy for passengers who are drunk on board an aeroplane?


http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationimages/groupfwd.gifIt is an offence to be drunk on board an aircraft, and passengers who behave in a threatening, abusive, insulting or disorderly manner towards a member of the crew, or intentionally interfere with their performance can be subject to a maximum penalty of an unlimited fine and/or two years’ imprisonment.

The CAA's principal concern is the overall safety of the flight, and our main role on this issue is as adviser to the Government. The Safety Regulation Group's Flight Operations Department is actively involved with the Department for Transport in monitoring the frequency and nature, together with analysis, of such occurrences in order to establish if any further legislative action may be necessary.

eastern wiseguy
20th Sep 2007, 11:35
Ever heard the saying 'You get what you pay for'?

P.S. I don't do LCC's!


As stated before LUCKY YOU .When Britis...sorry London Airways pulled out the choice was curtailed somewhat ....sanctimonious:hmm:....:ugh::ugh:

MuttleyJ
20th Sep 2007, 12:09
That flight sounds horrendous. As FWOF says, it is illegal to be drunk on board an aircraft, but that person should never had been allowed to board if he was that drunk to start off with. Yes, the ground staff may have wanted rid of him, but at the very least should have flagged it up to the crew to make the decision. All that is quite apart from the fact that he was shouting about hijacking and killing. Horrendous that the crew and airline did nothing.

groundbum
20th Sep 2007, 12:48
how do airlines manage with licensing and selling alcohol? I have a personal license as I sell alcohol, and clearly under the rules I am not allowed to sell to intoxicated people. Also I cannot have just any of my staff sell alcohol, unless they are under my supervision etc etc.

How does an airline get a licensed holder on each flight?

It seems to me you could make a complaint to the Police saying Easyjet breached the terms of their alcohol licence. With things like this I always work on the assumption to make as much aggro for the company as possible as otherwise they won't pay attention and will carry on regardless.

G

PAXboy
20th Sep 2007, 13:30
FWOF Hmmm, yes I see what you mean, once they talk about 'advising' rather than 'enforcing' it actually means 'nothing'.

Given the very high risk that you would encounter if you tried to video tape any of this behaviour, I can only hope that an enquiry to the HEAD of the CAA asking, "What should I do?" might be a way to go. It may force them to direct you to someone who will take action.

Naturally, they will ask you to have raised this with EZY first and you will have to document that. It means a long paper trail but, if you have the stamina, it is the only route. The local press are too risky as they would want to name you. Perhaps, you could get friends/family who also travel to support your complaint? Perhaps informal talk with CC after landing might elicit interesting responses. They would not be things that you could use in court but might echo the words of FlyerFoto about trains at Leeds. That is to say, you can get informal confirmation that the airline know about the problem and are ignoring it.

No fun and, as I say, stamina needed. BUT if the CAA brush you off then you have some ammunition as they are there to protect the public!

slim_slag
20th Sep 2007, 14:24
Sorry to be a party pooper, but I don't believe the story.

Over to you :)

FWOF
20th Sep 2007, 14:34
What???!! You don't believe that every week, drunken pax board countless flights, make a nuisance of themselves and generally make flights unpleasant for the rest of us ???!!

Shack37
20th Sep 2007, 15:23
FWOF
To go by your post you fly maybe twice a week to and from Belfast thereby aquiring the right to classify the entire travelling Irish race as loudmouthed drunken hooligans. Another poster has already pointed out the insulting nature of your post and you didn't have the decency to rectify or apologise, on the contrary you defended your comments.
Having read previous posts by you about having to travel to Belfast and being a nervous flier I can offer two alternatives. Either find work elsewhere or travel by sea.
:=
s37

FWOF
20th Sep 2007, 15:31
Once more, I'll reiterate that I can ONLY comment on my own experiences. ANd it wouldn't matter if I flew once a week, once a month or once a year. However, I meant no offence whatasoever to the fabulous people of Ireland, and my comments are laid at the feet of those that travel this route in a drunken state.

If it offends people then I am sorry as that ISN'T intended. I could have quite easily have said it was a bunch of drunk scouse doormen, and I bet no-one would have been offended then.

Once more, apologies if I have offended anyone, but my points regarding drunken PAX still stand.

Shack37
20th Sep 2007, 16:09
FWOF
You still don't seem to realise how offensive your post is and continue to defend it citing YOUR PERSONAL experience. I and I'm sure many others posting here, have lived in and travelled to and from a few different countries and experienced the drunken pax problem but it would never occur to me to specify nationalities. If I was from Liverpool I would certainly be offended by your example amendment. You may have noticed that the opening poster of this thread didn't find it necessary to specify nationality.
The solution is still in your hands as mentioned before.
s37

FWOF
20th Sep 2007, 16:16
Shack 37 - why don't you concentrate on the point of the thread instead of looking for the negatives in it (which I have removed) and using that as an excuse for attack. If you've something of merit or of experience in this particular subject then I'd love to hear it. If you want to just continue to attack me, then I'm not interested. I rather feel you will continue your posting theme, and good luck to you, people get their jollies in a variety of ways.

Sexy shell
20th Sep 2007, 22:04
well said slim-slag!

[QUOTE]
[Sorry to be a party pooper, but I don't believe the story.]

as already quoted

over to you.........

Category 5
21st Sep 2007, 08:34
Thanks for all your input and thoughts on this, especially Slim Slag - great input there.

Out of interest, SS, do you feel that as you have a post count of nearly 2,000 (most are probably crap like your example here) this gives you the right to publically question my posts authenticity?

Believe me, I have far better things to do with my time than make up stories to post up on the internet.

Sorry to be a 'party pooper' but I think you talk bollox. :ok:

slim_slag
21st Sep 2007, 09:03
Simply think that you need to accept the crew do this all the time and should be considered experts in identifying a risk to the flight, and if it was as bad as you describe they would have acted differently.

Also somebody who says Now I wait for the inevitable - the annoying, smelly passanger from hell. is clearly starting the flight looking for something to go wrong. So probably not as open minded about other people as I would like somebody to be who objectively reports this sort of thing.

But write to the CAA/easyjet and see what they say, and let us know.

Category 5
21st Sep 2007, 09:18
SS - I do accept that flight crew should be experienced to identify a risk when they see one.

Post flight I had a chat to the chief stewardess and captian and they explained that if the pax gets through the brief gate inspection, they ONLY opportunity they have for there own judgement is on boarding. If the pax walks by without saying a word then there is no reason to suspect anything.

My problem was the fact that they continued to serve the gentleman in question as it was easier to do this than to not.

Also, you note that I was being pesimistic from the outset. I was not, all I was doing was setting the scene for the introduction of 'sod's law'.

I will send a complaint off to the CAA / easyjet. I do not expect anything to come from my experience, however, I would like them to be aware of the problems that this individual caused.

Regards,

slim_slag
21st Sep 2007, 09:40
You see Cat 5, your story doesn't ring true.

You say that you saw A 40 Year old male, staggering along the aisle, obviously (in my opinion) intoxicated. and yet the crew didn't seem to see that. In fact you said Post flight I had a chat to the chief stewardess and captian and they explained that if the pax gets through the brief gate inspection, they ONLY opportunity they have for there own judgement is on boarding. So they get to make a judgement on boarding, but they let him on anyway, when in your opinion he could hardly walk. A bit strange, that.

Also, when you say your problem was the fact that they continued to serve the gentleman in question as it was easier to do this than to not. then perhaps you need to look at your own standards rather than the pax or crew. If the crew make that decision, then who am I to criticise?

Category 5
21st Sep 2007, 10:19
Oh well obviously case closed then. Well done, Poirot.

The first part of your post. It was obvious to me he was drunk. yes. The crew did not see this. Correct.

Your second point. Repeating the first in my opinion. So yes fact. You find that 'a bit strange'. Well I find you a bit strange. Move on.

Final point. Does not make sense.

So all you have actually done here is make an arse of yourself.

:ok:

PAXboy
21st Sep 2007, 11:53
I do believe the stories of check-in staff allowing intoxicated Pax to board and cabin crew for doing their best to ignore them or, supplying more alcohol in the hope that they will go to sleep.

I have seen this from Luton a couple of times in 2001 when I was commuting LTN~EDI every week for six months on EZY. The worst was a football crowd that had attended a game in Europe and were transiting at LTN. They had obviously been drinking after the match and at transit and were now boarding the last of the day to home. I was fortunate, in that they were very noisy but not offensive. Also, I guessed correctly that they would use the front steps and so used the rear set to be far enough away from them. Others were not so lucky on what was always a busy flight.

I also believe the story because I have seen gate staff ignore many aspects of pax behaviour because, if they intervene they have a problem, if they let it go, they do not. If they let it go and, later, someone in authority pulls them up - it was only one amongst many that they let through. i.e. the odds are in their favour.

I am sure that CC on the last sector of the day are making a balance between delaying the flight to offload and the chance that the person will fall asleep. Again, the odds are in their favour. I do not blame the CC and FC for this, it is human nature and if the pax are not a threat to good order? If they are only a nuisance? Think of the example given about train service from Leeds.

That is real life in a commercial operation and they will be considering their airline getting a reputation for occasionally letting on some noisy pax or getting a reputation for always offloading and then having to fight a different PR battle.

Lastly, I believe it because the pax that is mildly to averagely intoxicated KNOWS that he has to walk carefully and not say anything out of place whilst he boards. If he is completely drunk, then he will lose control and be offloaded but he no longer cares. So, actually, it is the ones that are NOT fully drunk that are the bigger problem as they still have some brain cells functioning.

But, as to the question do FC + CC connive with drinking pax in the hope that they will remain quiet for the 60/60/120 min sector? Yes, of course and we see reports of it in here a couple of times a year.

As to the cultural/national origins of such people - I have no doubt that you can see this same behaviour from ANY local/regional UK airport. Consequently, if you say they are one cultural/national group over another, it is no slur on them - as it would be the same for any airport. Those rising to defend their local cultural/national group are missing the point. The point is - what to do about airport and airline staff allowing intoxicated pax (of any nation) on to an aircraft.

slim_slag
21st Sep 2007, 12:23
You believe what you want Paxboy, and so will I. Does it strike you as interesting that the only offensive language on this thread comes from the person who stated this by making such a fuss about other people's behaviour? As I said, the story has too many holes.

As for intoxicated people being some sort of paraiha who shouldn't be let on board an airplane, what tosh. I've ended up being completely plastered on long haul flights and haven't caused any trouble whatsoever, as have loads of people I know. No doubt there are cases where drunks cause trouble, but not many when you look at the millions who now fly. You have to expect the cabin crew can handle these, and if they cannot the other passengers will.

Category 5
21st Sep 2007, 12:34
Different people handle drink in different way. When I am on a LH flight I do not think twice about necking 6 or 7 beers followed by wine followed by scotch because I know I can handle it and am likley to fall asleep anyway.

However, once the pasanger has boarded and is clearly being an arse, that is when the problem begins. Do you refuse to serve him and risk him getting aggressive or serve knowing that it is a short flight and hope he falls asleep!

The extra problem we had was that when we landed we were stationary for approx 30 - 45 mins waiting for a stand. As you can imagine there was no acceptable explanation for this to the gentleman in question and to him we were clearly being 'hi-jacked !

The only reason I am complaining to EZY is because I was the unfortunate one who was subject to his barrage of abuse and repeated physical assaults.

I could have easily reacted and got in all kinds of bother but instead chose to bite my tongue (something I am now currently doing with our esteemed fellow Pruner).

PS. I feel I do not need to give you the full transcript of the Pax in question for you to gauge the seriousness of this incident.

amf1966
21st Sep 2007, 12:37
Just my opinion, but you get what you pay for.

This is why I don't "do" low cost airlines - because you end up paying another way!

Seriously though, intoxicated people could (and have been) a very serious threat to safety, they should be prevented from boarding, or managed whilst on-board if the intoxication happens there.

The cabin crew have plenty to do I guess without refusing drinks to people, who may well become aggressive, bit of a catch-22 really, but these people need to be managed and prevent annoying other passengers or becoming safety issues.

In every day life, such people could be dealt with by the police (assuming you can find one of course) and threatened/charged with breach of the peace and the like, how could such things be dealt with on-board a plane I wonder....especially with the captain locked away in the front office which really doesn't help the CC much in these situations.

A difficult one for sure, but it does need to be addressed.

It's a matter of time, I reckon, before airline staff start sueing their companies for placing them in dangerous situations etc.......or, has it happened already?

FWOF
21st Sep 2007, 12:38
And my point still stands about clearly tipsy and loud pax, who don't even pay attention during the safety talk, being allowed to sit in the exit rows.

Moreover, I'm perplexed that it's against the law to be intoxicated on an aircraft and yet alcohol is readily available ... and even at the crack of dawn.

Seems to me that it's all about getting more money in.

slim_slag
21st Sep 2007, 13:02
Just my opinion, but you get what you pay for.

This is why I don't "do" low cost airlines - because you end up paying another way!Funny, because one of the only drunk air-rage stories I remember off the top of my head involved a first class passenger on a British Airways flight. One suspects he was a very high cost passenger, who was interestingly enough found not guilty by a jury. What was the airline's response? Come back any time!

But let's not let prejudices affect the discussion, not that there has been any shortage of these.

Shack37
21st Sep 2007, 14:38
FWOF,
I do not get "jollies" as you describe it, or any other kind of pleasure from this kind of debate. I'm far too normal for that. You stick to your way of expressing your opinions and I'll continue to put mine forward if I feel yours, or anyone else's, is offensive. None of my posts in any way invalidate your point about passengers who've drunk too much or whose responsibility it is to deny them boarding or more alcohol, only your initial way of expressing it.
Enjoy your next flight to Belfast City, I'll be passing through there myself in the near future and if anything untoward happens I will be more than happy to relate them here.
atb
s37

amf1966
21st Sep 2007, 14:43
Fair cop - SS, but the point was more general than that.

What I'm struggling with, is without law-enforcement powers etc, how would cabin crew be expected to deal with any passenger causing annoyance to other passengers, or more particularly, causing safety issues etc.

This must be a very difficult line to tread, for fear of being sued in return.

I'm sure CC get training in this area, but all the influence and persuasion skills, negotiation skills etc won't work on some people. So what do you do....

Are CC permitted, for example, to restrain someone who st posing a danger to others? Just suppose you had someone who tried to open a door at FL390 (believe this happened in Aus a year or so ago), what are you guys actually allowed/authorised to do?

Ultimately, if you land somewhere, police take him/her away, whatever happens to that person, all the other pax have been inconvenienced, yuo've incurred extra landing/fuel/scheduling costs and delays - who looses the worst here.

Would be genuinely intersted.......

Shack37
21st Sep 2007, 15:01
amf1966,
I believe CC have lawful powers to restrain any passenger who they judge to be a safety risk and that the pax can be presented with the bill for the costs of any diversion, delay or unscheduled landing caused by their behavior.
There must be a legal eagle around the forum who can clarify this.
s37

jetsetwilly
21st Sep 2007, 19:12
I just wonder how far the thread would've got if the title was 'bad passenger experience'?

Not far, methinks.

JSW

Category 5
21st Sep 2007, 22:14
lol well thats killed it JSW !

Shack37
22nd Sep 2007, 10:01
Oh no it hasn't..................

PAXboy
22nd Sep 2007, 11:47
jswI just wonder how far the thread would've got if the title was 'bad passenger experience'?Actually, that's all it was about. The fact that it was EZY in the frame was/is of no import. The problem is carriers allowing intoxicated (and occasionally, drunk) pax on board. They disturb other pax and may cause a risk to safety. I reported seeing this on EZY but I have also seen this on RYR on a late night AAR~STN.

Will carriers stop doing this? - No.
Is this also done by legacy carriers? - Yes.
Does the CAA care? - No.

Nothing will change until someone gets seriously hurt and it can be PROVED that the staff (ground or air) were negligent. Sorry to be so pessimistic but experience of corporate life in the UK will do that to you.

Sobelena
22nd Sep 2007, 12:25
Will carriers stop doing this? - No.
Is this also done by legacy carriers? - Yes.
Does the CAA care? - No.

I would tend to agree. However, I would go as far as to say that it is a more frequent occurence on loco carriers.

merlinxx
22nd Sep 2007, 13:06
If an obviously bladdered or hyped (drugs or other) person is putting other pax ill at ease, it is the pax's right to notify the carrier's staff and/or agents of the concerns prior to bording. This is a flight safety issue, and you can, and should report this to the CAA (UK operators). For Easy, country of acft reg, i.e. in GVA the Swiss. Last resort is to use the "hated" media. Yes I have denied boarding to Co. acft at many locations. If you have a phone with video capture, use it as evidence, and tell the carrier's staff/agents you have. We don't want these folks on our acft any more than you do, as you'll not come back as a repeat customer. Third party ground handling agents tend not to be that concerned!

SLFguy
23rd Sep 2007, 08:50
SS...I can't believe you doubt the veracity of the OP. I do ABZ LGW weekly with BA and I see this kind of thing very often. The boys on offshore rotations are off the choppers and into the bar like rats up a drainpipe!

Oh and as for the "ooh your post is offensive to the Irish"....get a freakin life.

Shack37
23rd Sep 2007, 15:58
SLFguy,
No mate, you get a freakin life. Not only am I Irish but I do offshore rotations and I don't qualify for either your criticism or FWOFs. I suppose we should be grateful you just lumped them all as offshore personnel and didn't specify individual nationalities. This may be a giant step for mankind.
s37

SXB
23rd Sep 2007, 21:28
I fly a lot, normally 150-200 sectors a year. I find it quite rare to come across drunken passengers causing problems. It does happen but I haven't seen it that often. I not flying to or from the UK often, without insulting any nationalities you can draw from that what you like.....

slim_slag
24th Sep 2007, 10:03
One hates to ruin this by throwing in some facts, but...

.... the chance of an individual passenger boarding a flight on which a serious incident took place was around 1 in 16,000 and that only 1 in every 2 million passengers was the cause of a serious disruptive incident.

Department of Transport
Disruptive behaviour on board UK aircraft: April 2005 - March 2006

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/aviation/hci/db/disruptivebehaviouronboarduk1056?page=1#a1000

Also, cigarettes was identified as a more common cause of disruptive behaviour than alcohol.

Ho hum, ignore as you see fit :)

Getoutofmygalley
24th Sep 2007, 11:47
Speaking from the inside here as an easyJet Senior Cabin Crew Member (from LGW, not the base in question), just to make you aware that I personally will not tolerate drunks on my flights.

If I am operating a flight where historically you know there will be a potential for drunken behaviour (Friday night Prague, Budapest, Amsterdam for example) I always brief the TCO (the name for the 'Despatchers' at LGW) that I will not accept any drunks on the flight and warn them that they had best intercept them and not pass them onto the aircraft and that I do not accept buck passing. So far too date, I have never had a drunk pax make it to my aircraft when I have warned the ground crew.

If we do have stag do's on my flights I always encourage the stags (and to be fair, the hens too) to the rear of the aircraft and I warn them that they had best behave as it is not too late to offload them. If the groups get loud and offensive in the air I warn them that we reserve the right to 1) return to the airport we have come from 2) divert to another airport and offload and have arrested 3) have you arrested on arrival, I always point out that the police in foreign countries are far less forgiving than the British bobby is for when it comes to dealing with drunks and I strongly advise that they should calm down. I also point out that no further alcohol will be served to them for the duration of the flight and that the only drinks we will sell them will be strong black coffee.

Am I a party pooper? yes but as far as I am concerned I am responsible for 156 pax in the air and I want them all to feel safe and secure and also (most importantly) I want their repeat business in the future. I also have a very good working relationship with the vast majority of pilots at LGW and so far I have never had a Captain question a decision regarding safety in the cabin. If I ever did have a drunk pax board the aircraft and the Captain would not back up my decision to offload that pax, if I felt that strongly about it (i.e. you could clearly see that they were aggressive or likely to be aggressive) I would threaten to offload myself and delay the flight, knowing full well that it would be quicker then to offload the drunk pax than it would be to find a replacement SCCM. Thankfully I have never had to do that, but I would as I care about the safety of all of my pax on the flights that I operate!

Atishoo
24th Sep 2007, 12:49
Getoutofmygalley,

You are a STAR......

There is nothing more frightening than someone drunk on a flight if you are a nervous passenger like myself. For me its bad enough riding on the darn plane without these people giving me more palpatations !

Like you say, its the other passengers that need to be looked after, if the drunks wanna put danger in their way, go play on the M1 !!

Very reassuring Get, thanks very much :rolleyes:

cherrycoke
25th Sep 2007, 06:11
Personally, I too feel we haven't heard a detailed enough version of events to lay blame on here.

Usually when drunk people get on, especially on a flight that short, they would only have time for one drink anyway, and whenever I've very politely refused to serve someone any more alcohol, they've just had to accept it. They then tend to fall asleep.

One of the problems with situations like this is that crew's decisions tend to go unsupported when they involve delaying an aircraft. I've had experience of both good and bad CRM on board.

Once, a great brute of a man walked down the airbridge, and instead of getting on, chose to lean against the outside of the A/C eating a Sausage roll and swaying. When everyone else had boarded, he tried very hard to walk on the aircraft. When the Senior decided he wouldn't be getting on, the Captain was fine, but the groundstaff took some convincing, including a debate about his baggage.

So the message we are given, and are not ourselves in support of, is "Make sure you adhere to all safety requirements, but DON'T DELAY A FLIGHT"

The drunkeness thing depends on how you play it, if you march into that situation with all guns blazing then expect an irrational argument. Be calm and polite, and there tends not to be a situation at all.

As for the outlandish arguing in this forum, does everyone just come on here with the intention of finding something offensive and then shouting about it??

Final 3 Greens
25th Sep 2007, 06:45
As for the outlandish arguing in this forum, does everyone just come on here with the intention of finding something offensive and then shouting about it??

That's one of the key roles of PPrune in our lives:}

Still, it keeps the wife beating numbers lower.

Goldilocks95
25th Sep 2007, 10:43
Speaking as easyJet Ground staff at BRS, we do our best to ensure drunks do not board the flights at all and we deal with them. If the present themselves at check in intoxicated or smelling of drink thebags go on standby and we ensure they are watched whilst atthe airport. They are issued with a warning and the airport police are usually atthe gate oncommencement of boarding just in caseof any trouble. The problem we have is, because they have been warned they are usuallyfine going through the gate.....as soon as theyare through or starting to get on the aircraft they think they are in the clear then, and thats when they start mukingabout! Ok I cant speak for all ground staff, in every airport inthe uk, but from what ive seen, the procedure tends to work and we offload any person showing drunkiness behavior or could be a danger to themselves and the other passengers.

cherrycoke
25th Sep 2007, 11:41
Final 3 Green, I'm wetting myself, at least you admit it hahahaha.

Nicholas49
25th Sep 2007, 21:05
Could we actually open this thread up to some pilots and get some rational views here? Please!

There is a lot of shouting going on and it would be good to hear what they have to say.

Do you support your easyJet colleague's stance that it is best just to serve the person alcohol on a short-haul flight?

I sincerely hope that some of you take your responsibilities a bit more seriously than that.

Would you divert and mess up your schedule to get rid of a drunk passenger?

In fact, does the captain ever actually get personally involved in these matters, or are they just left to the cabin crew to sort out?

Has any pilot reading this thread (or pax witnessing the event) ever left the flight deck to eject a passenger?

subtle sam
25th Sep 2007, 23:11
what a crazy thread.

As quoted by cat5 (who has been very quiet)

he is shouting we are being hijacked, I'll kill you all etc


I personally think passengers & crew would have reacted to this!!! do you not think so..

Shack37
26th Sep 2007, 15:14
Final 3 Greens,
Wife beating.
Don't follow your train of thought, the connection escapes me. Could this be your personal method of stress management? It's the only reason I can think of that caused you to mention it.

Cherrycoke, and you think it's something to laugh about..............

s37

10secondsurvey
27th Sep 2007, 21:33
Quote:
.... the chance of an individual passenger boarding a flight on which a serious incident took place was around 1 in 16,000 and that only 1 in every 2 million passengers was the cause of a serious disruptive incident.



But in terms of a pax experience, surely theses figures would be skewed if said pax only ever flew budget airlines?

Final 3 Greens
27th Sep 2007, 23:36
Shack37

Try looking up "irony" in the dictionary and whilst you have it open, "pompous" too.

Shack37
28th Sep 2007, 15:10
Final 3 Green
Don't need a dictionary, I know exactly what they mean and I've met and read posts by enough people to recognise them.
See, no irony, not pompous (IMHO) and not a mention of nationality.
Have a nice day and goodbye, at least on this thread.
s37

FWOF
1st Oct 2007, 12:26
Haven't looked at this thread for a few days ... amazed at the amount of bitching STILL going on ...

Professionals my derrier ... :=

Final 3 Greens
1st Oct 2007, 15:50
FWOF

Which part of the forum title are you having trouble with?

Not everyone on here is an aviation professional.

FWOF
1st Oct 2007, 16:29
Did I say 'aviation' Professionals ... ?

My comments stand. It would be refreshing if a thread stayed on topic without dissolving into mud slinging.

Final 3 Greens
2nd Oct 2007, 03:34
"Did I say 'aviation' Professionals ... ?"

You mean ......... like Bodie and Doyle then?

FWOF
2nd Oct 2007, 07:53
Bodie & Doyle ... my heroes! If only they WERE on here, and Cowley ... now HE was a man in charge make no mistake!

COVER ME!!! :ok:

27mm
2nd Oct 2007, 12:16
That reminds me, whatever happened to Lewis Collins after "The Cuckoo Waltz" and "Who Dares Wins"?

FWOF
2nd Oct 2007, 12:42
Ahhhhh, he retired to the US of A methinks ... he'll always be Bodie to me, just Bodie ... ALWAYS Bodie ... :O