Go Round Methodologies

[carpe_jugulum]

Seeking thoughts/information/policy suggestions on Go Round techniques applicable to twin jet transport category aircraft(F100, 717, 727, 737, 757, A320etc)

Discussions with colleagues yielding varying thoughts on conduct of go round when:

1. Visual conditions(cloud ceiling approx 1500agl) - by day or night - (possibly off bottom of Circling approach)
2. Vehicle/aircraft enters active runway, whilst our aircraft on approx 3 mile final.
3.Aircraft in landing configuration with full flap.

Should we..?
A: Carry out standard missed approach/go round procedure - push TOGA buttons, pitch to FD guidance, Flap to appropriate GA setting, clean up on schedule and climb up to pattern alt/MSA for another Instrument/Visual approach.

B: Apply power to stop descent/climb a little, leave flap and gear, then turn as required to reposition aircraft on final via orbit/small circuit, leaving speed at VAPP etc

Various companies have rigid SOPs or flexible guidance on this. I have my thoughts, but would like to see some additional ideas.

Any contributions appreciated..

[Bullethead]

The last couple of go-arounds I have done have been due to 'vehicles' on the runway, aircraft that is, a bit too slow getting out of the way. Oddly enough both happened when I was about 3 miles out, one at night the other around midday.


A previous G/A was initiated in the flare, at night, when I flew into a wall of water, a passing shower moving rapidly across the field. No mucking around then, I was outa there.

I did the standard G/A every time. I had a fair idea that a tight circuit or orbit was out of the question so cleaned up and had a radar vectored trip around the local area for another approach.

If you do the same thing every time then you won't set yourself up for a screw up. :ok:

Aircraft in question, a B767.

Regards,
BH.

[ITCZ]

I noticed that all the types you mentioned have good automatics, is that a hint?

Caveat: In my outfit, circling approaches are allowed, but if the conditions are below VMC, your judgement may be questioned if you selected an IAL with circle-to-land if a runway aligned approach was available.

In the all engines operating case, at 3nm/900' to touch, with conditions better than those required for circling, I would definitely consider climbing back to the circling minima (or circuit altitude) and having another go.

Thinking being: I've done all the hard work to fly an IAL and get visual. If I am down here, comfortable, visual, within the circling area, with conditions greater than those required for circling, we are in a strong position, why chuck all that away to start again?

In the 717 it is quite simple. Select the circuit/circling altitude (level change). Select the runway track. Engage autopilot. 717 will quite happily climb to circuit/circling altitude in landing configuration with all engines operating.

I'll be at the circling/circuit altitude by the threshold. Fly it round the circuit with the GCP*. No problem.

If you feel like being a little more efficient when it is VMC, maybe retract flaps to approach setting (F18 for 717) and hard select the minimum speed for that flap setting. Leave the gear down.

If however the conditions were marginal or I didn't like the situation I was getting us into, I'd advance the throttles and tickle the TOGA and get out of there.

*Guidance Control Panel. Central glareshield panel where you can 'hard select' speed, hdg/track, bank angle, altitude, and vertical speed/flight path angle. See knurled knobs and wheels in picture below.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0813731&size=L&width=1200&height=812&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Obrvat%20717%2 7%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=11

[blablabla]

Well you and your collegues should be taken off line as far as i`m concerned if you need to ask such a question. In the event of a go-around you follow the missed approach procedure unless told otherwise by the tower.
You brief it so if it happens we all know what we are doing...same song sheet and all that rubbish.
So to even start dicussing wether to climb or stay level and what power or speed or what config to use in your question about some non-standard orbit is a waste of time.
The tower would have no idea of your intention, neither would the PM and niether would any of the other traffic on short finals behind you. If you excute the published procedure the PM knows the drill you also have rehersed this STANDARD MANOUVER and all the other a/c on the frequency will also have an idea of where your aircraft will position to in this case. How can you orbit anywhere in Europe on a 3 mile final after not being able to make a landing even if it was allowed it would not be possible due to the volumes of traffic.
And with regards to companies and SOP`S then what you describe falls out of all the realms of SOP and no company would ever even talk about this as being an approved procedure or write a manouver diagram to depict what you suggest. Its when people start to become non-standard like this that problems start to arise. You read it from your chart you brief it you set your FMC and nav aids in order to help you execute it and if it happens for whatever reason you follow it. Its a STANDARD MANOUVER.

Over and out and fly safe

[ITCZ]

A little harsh there, blablabla. Bad day?

Our friend here is asking a question. In our operating culture, we are told there is no such thing as a stupid question, only the question unasked. Better to ask a dumb question than make a dumb mistake. I thought you UK fellows had compulsory multi-crew training courses, is that not discussed?

Our friend also specified go-around in VMC or when cleared for circling approach. If the wx and viz was hovering around the ILS minima or minima for the runway aligned approach, I would agree with you. But he asks about the VMC and/or circling cases.

If I am required to go-around due to a runway incursion in VMC the missed approach instructions are dead simple. Commence climb, maintain runway track and await instructions from ATC. Instructions which inevitably are prefaced by "can join the circuit from there?"

Why would I want to be blasting away toward 10,000' at TOGA power and a deck angle of 20deg ANU on a sunny day?

Circling approach. A clearance to make a circling approach over here is a clearance to make the IAL and circle as required to position for landing. Everything bar the landing clearance. There is no-one else in the vicinity, any inbounds are holding the other side of the initial fix. I've made the approach, I own the circuit. If I have a runway incursion, or come around base turn to find that I am too high on the PAPI and cannot make stabilised approach criteria, but everything else is fine, what is the point of blasting back into the gloop to burn more fuel and give ATC a headache?

You say the TWR and the fellow on short final behind you would have no idea. In the event of an IAL with circling, there is no fellow on short final behind me, and I am the only aeroplane flying in TWR airspace. TWR will cope just fine. APCH will not be too pleased to see me if I am back in his airspace after mucking up an approach in ceiling 1000' viz>4000m.

In VMC, dunnunda TWR controllers would have had experience of handling up to 10 training aircraft in the circuit at places like YPJT, YPPF, YSBK. A doddle. "Copied going around, make left circuit, maintain downwind until advised."

Visual maneouvring is still very much part of life in Dunnunda. Our outfit has SOP for these, it is part of the simulator and line checking programme.

[ITCZ]

then turn as required to reposition aircraft on final via orbit/small circuit, leaving speed at VAPP etc

Don't mess about with orbits on short final. In that I would agree 100% with blablabla. At least one Airbus crew proved that to be a fatal mistake.

Climb straight ahead if runway aligned or make a climbing turn toward the runway first. Capture the circling/circuit altitude. Fly a circuit. Don't be in a rush to abbreviate it.

[carpe_jugulum]

blablabla - good heavens old chap, did you have a bad day or what?...
As indicated, I am seeking general thoughts on this issue - I am in no way suggesting that this is SOP for those people I have hitherto queried on this matter.

I do agree with your comment on the PM(PNF here) not being aware of what you are doing if you depart from the SOPs.

However, much of our flying downunder is to non tower airports, and involves circling approaches/visual circuit join - hence my tailoring the question specifically to VMC/Circling conditions.

In event of a controlled airport/marginal conditions, we must follow the published MAP/ATC instruction. No question.

ITCZ - thanks for the great contribution. I agree with climb on runway track, and complete a gentle vis. circuit, utilizing the GCP. Simple.
My insertion of the 'orbit' - that has been suggested to me(to my horror!) And as suitable at night..........ahem.

Bullethead - thanks for your response, I do agree with 'if you do it the same way every time' sentiment. However, with no disrespect, I left out the heavy iron as I guessed you chaps don't circle too often.

What I am highlighting here, is that in a straw poll of 10-15 crew with many years experience in this class of operation, all have answered that in MAP off ILS/RWY app, or prevailing IMC a standard GA procedure MUST be followed, IAW SOPs. Safe.

Where the pregnant pauses in their responses occur is when the VMC/Visual circ scenario is presented.

The differences of opinion are interesting, and if there is no clear guidance in the company SOPs, then perhaps there ought to be.

So blablabla, here I wholeheartedly agree with you, that departure from SOPs is unnaceptable, however, where no guidance exists, extreme diference of opinion will result.

It can be written into the SOPs, thus..

...... 'when in VMC conditions/Circling equivalent, the PF/PIC may elect to climb to circuit/circling altitude, remain in landing configuration, fly upwind and rejoin the circuit for another approach...'

any further thoughts welcome.

Cheers.
CJ

[Bullethead]

G'day CJ,

Yeah, there certainly have been some interesting responses, and you're right I only do around one circling approach per year and that's in the sim.

Regards,
BH.

[mstram]

Two good engines -- can give more thrust than you might need for an easy fly-out:

HAVARIKOMMISJONEN FOR SIVIL LUFTFART
OG JERNBANE (HSLB)
[Accident Investigation Board / Norway ]

http://www.aibn.no/default.asp?V_ITEM_ID=427


Scary incident, thankfully no injuries !

Does the "TOGA" button always supply the same thrust ? .. i.e is there such a thing as a "derated TOGA" ? ... (asks the C172 pilot :) )

Otherwise, with only 75 passengers on a 757, vs a fully loaded one I would think that the go-round behavior of the plane would be quite different for those two extremes. Maybe that's what contributed to this incident ?

Mike

[Bullethead]

IIRC on the B747-400 the first push of the TO/GA switches gave you a 2000fpm climb and the second push gave you rated go-around thrust.

On the B767 you get thrust appropriate to give you a 2000fpm climb and if you want more thrust you have to apply it manually.

So it shouldn't make a lot of difference whether the aeroplane is heavy or light.

Regards,
BH.

[PK-KAR]

Over here it's:
Ask the tower which one he/she wants you to do and while think if you can do either, then inform.
Or
Decide, then inOver here it's:
Ask the tower which one he/she wants you to do and while think if you can do either, then inform.

Or

Decide, then inform tower and see if it is acceptable for traffic purposes.

(caveat: if any of the crew don't like the orbit, then go-around, regardless).

If below 500' then go-around. If in doubt at any stage, go-around.

Btw, normally it's the tower asking me to do an orbit before we even ask (is that us being sloppy?), and depending on the crew, sometimes we accept, sometimes we just say "unable, going around, request visual pattern/vectors (depending on situ)"... If it's due to a buffalo entering the runway, heck, go around. It'll take time for the ground guys to shoo off and tie down the beast or shoot it and drag it off the runway. (732s & F100s while not as crew)

Don't do what my friend did, ignore the goat on the runway, land it, and then get worried pax about blood near the landing gear! (F28)

PK-KARform tower and see if it is acceptable for traffic purposes.
(caveat: if any of the crew don't like the orbit, then go-around, regardless).
If below 500' then go-around. If in doubt at any stage, go-around.
Btw, normally it's the tower asking me to do an orbit before I even ask (is that me being sloppy?), and depending on the crew, sometimes we accept, sometimes we just say "unable, going around, request visual pattern/vectors (depending on situ)"... If it's due to a buffalo entering the runway, heck, go around. It'll take time for the ground guys to shoo off and tie down the beast or shoot it and drag it off the runway. (732s & F100s while not as crew)
Don't do what my friend did, ignore the goat on the runway, land it, and then get worried pax about blood near the landing gear! (F28)
PK-KAR

[Admiral346]

Seems kind of obvious to me:

IFR - you stick to procedure.

VFR - you fly a traffic pattern - as mentioned before ( in different context though), everyone else will know, what to expect. Or did you get tought to turn from final back the long way straight to base? Or fly circles in the middle of the pattern? - Seems odd to me, but then I usually am on an IFR-plan into some busy airport.

And for the A 320- you asked about it: You have to move the Thrust Levers to TOGA, otherwise you don't trigger the GA mode for the FMS... You can retard them a half second later, but they have to go there...