Unusual or Not?

[MarcJF]

Hi, I took a flight this afternoon from Rome to the UK. We were delayed at the hold by around 30 minutes due to weather. Departure was normal and I noted the time as it was exactly a 2 hour flight. 4 minutes after departure the cockpit door opened and the captain was in the galley, went to the loo and spent some time with the crew, but only 2/3 minutes.

My question - is this usual? He may well have been busting and planned to visit the bathroom in the cruise. I was always under the impression that this part of the flight was particularly important whilst in a steep climb out etc. Am i wrong to expect the captain in the cockpit? There was only a co-pilot by the way, no 3rd officer.

I'm not doubting the capability of the co-pilot, just wondering if this is 'normal' or just an urgent call of nature?

[perkin]

Was there another flight crew jump seating perhaps? I was on a flight a while ago with an extra FO positioning to start his shift and they announced the face a uniformed person might wander through the cabin but not to worry as there were 3 on board...

[Rainboe]

He was a jump seating Captain, either route checking or going passenger on the flight deck. I'm sure you're ready to lep into print and complain loudly! Relax. I'd think absolutely nothing of it....and neither should you.

[MarcJF]

Rainboe,

Not complaining at all. The chap that came out was the captain (I had seen him earlier before departure), it was an Airbus A320 and as far as I could see there was only a co-pilot up front. I wouldn't say I was worried, after all if it was dangerous he wouldn't do it. But I do fly a lot and have never seen anyone leave so early in the flight, hence my question usual or not, and NOT safe or not.

[Avman]

But I do fly a lot and have never seen anyone leave so early in the flight, hence my question usual or not, and NOT safe or not.

You're trying to back off now MarcJF. Of course it's not a USUAL occurence and you know that. So in fact you initiated this post as a means of intimating that it was unsafe. By the way, even if it was a two man crew, it could well be that the "co-pilot" was also a Captain. My bet is that if you saw the four striper at the gate or hanging about the FD door as you boarded, he was most likely a jump-seat rider or a check captain.

Now, be a good lad and put it to bed.

[Final 3 Greens]

MarkJF

I take about 100 commercial flights a year and I have never seen either pilot leave the controls during the climb.

Rainboe and others who are professionals sometimes forget that as FQTVs we fly a lot, but nothing like as much as crew, so we still get surprises after 1,000 or more sectors.

I guess that 4 minutes (how sure are you on this) would likely put the aircraft at somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000' depending on the ATC clearance and climb performance and this does seem unusually low for someone to leave the flight deck in my experience as a pax - see first para. I'm not commenting on aircraft operation, just this behaviour against the other hundreds of flights I've been on.

You finished you question by asking should you expect both pilots to be in the flight deck at this stage and I notice that you have not received a straight answer - perhaps you need to read between the lines ;)

[Dirty Mach]

"Shouldn't he have gone before we left?" a terrified passenger asks...

Well, it does seem a bit low, but he clearly can't do it during push-back, taxi or takeoff. Captains are surprisingly busy on the ground (No, really, they are!) and the front toilet is often where the flight's gash is stored on turnaround, making it less accessible. Even in London Airspace, an FO is usually just about capable of operating the radio and flying the aeroplane for a couple of minutes, so I wouldn't be too worried.

[Dirty Mach]

Also, Captains are often getting on a bit and have bladders the size of walnuts.

[Carnage Matey!]

Sometimes when you've gotta go you've gotta go. I've had to dash to the loo at 6000 ft on the approach into Frankfurt. Not ideal, but it was that or p*** myself and the airbus flight deck doesn't like all that liquid sloshing around.:uhoh:

[VAFFPAX]

You're trying to back off now MarcJF. Of course it's not a USUAL occurence and you know that. So in fact you initiated this post as a means of intimating that it was unsafe. By the way, even if it was a two man crew, it could well be that the "co-pilot" was also a Captain. My bet is that if you saw the four striper at the gate or hanging about the FD door as you boarded, he was most likely a jump-seat rider or a check captain.
*AHEM* BOLLOCKS. He asked if it was unusual.

I quote Marc (the highlight is mine):My question - is this usual? He may well have been busting and planned to visit the bathroom in the cruise. I was always under the impression that this part of the flight was particularly important whilst in a steep climb out etc. Am i wrong to expect the captain in the cockpit? There was only a co-pilot by the way, no 3rd officer.

I'm not doubting the capability of the co-pilot, just wondering if this is 'normal' or just an urgent call of nature?
Stop getting your undies in a knot Avman. Jeez.

Marc, I have yet to experience this, but if it's an urgent call of nature (after all, you did sit on the ground for 30 minutes longer than expected), then you gotta go. I've had it in the past that c/c have let a passenger up when the seatbelt signs were illuminated because (s)he suddenly felt rather ill or was bursting to use the loo.

S.

[6chimes]

An aircraft can be flown by one man and an F/O is trained quite well enough just in case the Captain becomes incapacitated, (anyway was there 2 Captains on the flight?, it does happen). A good reason for having two crew on the flight deck is to cross-check the pilot flying and to handle the radio. It wouldn't bother me at all to see a pilot leave the flight deck after such a short time, although it would be rare (it does happen though).

Working alongside UK pilots everyday I can assure you of their abilities and you have nothing to worry about.

(And when working alone some of them can forge the most deep and meaningful relationships of their lives. :E)

6

[Notso Fantastic]

Give it up! The original query was 9 months old. It is extremely overwhelmingly likely that the pilot seen was a supernumery, both pilots were still at the controls, and this person who walked out was either checking or jumpseating for some reason. Yet another case of a mistaken impression by a passenger seeing just a little of the story which somehow gains its own 'truth'!

[Final 3 Greens]

The truth is, that to a passenger, seeing a pilot in uniform leave the flight deck at low level is unusual.

The OP made it quite clear that he wasn't concerned about flight safety.

Now we have people trying to spin this into passenger hysteria.

Quite ridiculous.

It is an unusual event for a pax to witness, since we travel a lot less than crew.

Time some people learned to see things through the eyes of others.

[Notso Fantastic]

What, short sighted people? It is quite plain there was an extra crewmember on the flightdeck, this person 'thought' there was only one left. NO pilot would exit at such a stage and waste time in the cabin! Instead of just a query, the original questioner made a dangerous assumption- there was only one pilot left. It is plain there was not- he could not see onto the flight-deck and see both pilots still sitting there. But he has been indulged as if he was correct, and that led to a new daft discussion.

He was mistaken. As simple as that. This was a trainer or checker relieving himself and his poor cramped legs for a few minutes. End of discussion (one hopes). It really was no more than that!

It would so help if people would just ASK a question instead of (as well) slipping in personal assumptions and accusations about the professionalism of the crew on the day!

[Final 3 Greens]

Whatever the cause, it is unusual for a passenger to see a uniformed pilot leave the office so quickly after take off.

I have flown 100-110 sectors per year for many years, usually within 4 rows of the flight deck and have never seen this.

I fail to see any question of professionalism or integrity in the question and frankly you are being thin skinned.

It is perfectly reasonable for a paying customer to ask such a question.

And before you start to attack me, I am perfectly aware that many FOs are command qualified and all are trained for single pilot ops.

[Notso Fantastic]

You're the one making a very big deal of this! Here is the phrasingI was always under the impression that this part of the flight was particularly important whilst in a steep climb out etc. Am i wrong to expect the captain in the cockpit? There was only a co-pilot by the way, no 3rd officer.

He is not wrong to expect the Captain in the cockpit.....and he was.
Final3Greens, I won't bow to your extensive experience of passenger flying. I have been flying passengers for 38 years. On a surprisingly high proportion of flights, you will have jumpseaters along who will be either:
jumpseating crew
training or checking crew
additional crew required by the schedule
crew under training or observing.

They are not part of the operation. So if they want to stretch their legs a few minutes after takeoff, it's no skin off anybody's nose except maybe a passenger who has observed it, jumped to the wrong conclusion and is gripping the seat with white knuckles. So although even you may not have observed it, it happens, and it happens frequently, and I have done it many times myself when I have been 'heavy' crew along for some reason. The best time to grab a visit to the loo if you are 'extra' crew is just before the seat belt sign goes off!

There is your explanation, I see no need to prolong the misery as an adequate explanation of why has been made! Yet another erroneous or inconsequential observation is made into a never ending Pprune truth of its own!

[Final 3 Greens]

Final3Greens, I won't bow to your extensive experience of passenger flying. I have been flying passengers for 38 years

It looks very different in the back to the front, I imagine.

I wish you could just understand that.

Your frequency of flights is much higher than even the most frequent of passengers, you also know what is going on from an operational point of view.

All we are arguing about here is whether it is unusual, not whether it is dangerous, alarming etc.

And it is unusal for a passenger to see a uniformed pilot leave the flight deck at lowish altitude during the climb.

Why can't you understand this?

If you came to work with me, there would be things that I know are normal that may well seem unusual to you, that's the way it is.

Its nothing to do with creating self sustaining drivel - with all respect the OP didn't do that, the patronising and "they who denieth too much" replies from alleged professionals took the thread into that territory.

And anyway, PPrune is a rumour network hosted on the internet, does it really matter anyway?

[Notso Fantastic]

I can assure you all pilots think the passengers would assume when they leave the flight deck that passengers believe they are conducting themselves correctly and their normal procedures are being followed. This is being taken as read that they do not assume, should the pilots stroll around and pass the time of day in the galley during the climb, that only 1 pilot is left up front! I don't know what to say to assuage the fears of those nervy ones who assume only one pilot is left- make a PA? Nobody listens to the hello PA anyway- if you mention 3 pilots, no more than 10% will register.

Rest assured, no pilot I have ever flown with would get out of his seat in the climb unless nature absolutely insisted, then he would be back straight away. Which is why the query touches a bit of a raw nerve- it assumes unprofessional behaviour when it is obvious there was none- it is how a nervy passenger perceived the situation. I'm damned if I'm going to make a PA of 'one of us is going to the john now, don't worry there are still 2 up here!', so I really don't know what you can do. When you do carry heavy pilots, it's not unusual for them to pop back after take-off and go and assist with tech problems in the cabin, or go chat with a friend in the crew.

What more can be said? Why can't people trust their pilot- it's his neck as well as theirs.

[Final 3 Greens]

What more can be said? Why can't people trust their pilot- it's his neck as well as theirs.

Fair enough.

The chap that came out was the captain (I had seen him earlier before departure), it was an Airbus A320 and as far as I could see there was only a co-pilot up front. I wouldn't say I was worried, after all if it was dangerous he wouldn't do it. But I do fly a lot and have never seen anyone leave so early in the flight, hence my question usual or not, and NOT safe or not.

Seems to me that the OP did trust his pilot.

Shall we stop here? You are welcome to the last word, if you wish.

[Notso Fantastic]

Post 1 said it slightly differently, with an accusatory tone. And how did he know that the Captain he saw was not the checking/supernumery Captain? The excerpt you gave again made the point that the crew was not being 'safe'. It is essential to make the point that the crew considered it 'safe'. I have decisively pointed out pilots do not leave their seats at this stage, so it was decisively 'safe', to answer the original poster's query. What inference he drew is irrelevant if it was a faulty impression. Period. So as the discussion wended its way onto Nature's needs affecting pilots, the faulty impression gained a degree of authenticity which it did not merit. I have been caught short like that, but I have been in and out of the john with no passing the time of day whatsoever. Any professional pilot would be the same.

[NudgingSteel]

Some years back (pre-9/11) I was on a 737 fam flight. During the cruise the F/O wanted to use the toilet - as I had to get up and fold the jumpseat to let him out, I thought I'd take the chance too. He used the facility first, leaving me standing at the front of the cabin with about 180 people staring at me. It dawned later on me that although I wasn't wearing any stripes, the pax had just seen two blokes in white shirts and dark ties leave the cockpit together.....