BALPA taking the piss?

[Dreamshiner]

Anyone want to share why BALPA ask for £60 from hard up newly qualified/unemployed pilots for their career conference at Heathrow in October?

Call me old fashioned but surely the union meant to be looking out for the best interests of the industry should be doing its upmost for us.

I used to work in Event Management and I can assure you, there is serious profit getting made here.

We're all rooked so we don't want a 'light lunch', Boots meal deal will suffice thanks.

[Blackball]

Maybe its because they are hard up and need to make some serious money. Remember they only charge you 1% of your salary BEFORE tax for the privilege of being a member.

[theWings]

and I can assure you, there is serious profit getting made here.


Well can you go ahead and assure me, then? Do you have the figures?

[Dreamshiner]

As a non BALPA employee I don't, however based on what I know of the industry.

Use of conferencing facilities and function room + 1 seminar room for lectures would probably be around the £1,500=£2,000 max. for the day.

The airlines attending probably have to purchase space, dependent on the type of display, you are looking at £40/sq.m. Smallest stand will be 3x2 = 6sq.m = £240, multiply that by 20 odd airlines.

And on top of this cash generator, charge attendees £60, from the organisation who's sole purpose is our welfare. Why insist that attendees buy lunch which adds an extra £10-15 a head via the hotel.

The idea of bringing employers together, good.
The exploitation of us by yet another org/company/school, rancid.

I gather from your response you think charging £60 is both value for money, covers their costs and is therefore necessary?

[ZeBedie]

Dreamshiner, BALPA owes you nothing! I suggest you show your disapproval by boycotting the event.

[Arfur Feck-Sake]

You wouldn't find a conference room with teas/coffees for 500 delegates in a prime location for as little as £1500-£2000.

Nonetheless, I'm not a fan of BALPA

[Dreamshiner]

I negotiated terms cheaper than that at better venues, so I reckon it is.

I never said or implied they did owe us anything Ze, however it would be nice if they didn't exploit us.

[helimutt]

Tell you what, stay away from BALPA and do us members a favour. No pleasing some people, but when you want assistance with something, don't then go crawling back.

Have a nice day! :D

[Dreamshiner]

One of Thatcher's children are we Helimutt? As long as I'm sorted, bugger the rest of you!

The reason for the thread was to ask if PPRuNer's thought £60 was justified, and those who were unaware of it to question if it was value for money.

Events such as this, aimed at a specific segment of the workforce should not be exploitative in my opinion, however it is my opinion and not shared by all.

As for BALPA's assistance, I'm unsure of its effectiveness. I've had experience of the VC (German pilots union) and Italian's actively dragging their heels with foreigners being hired, is that copied here to promote UK nationals from being hired here? ...... No chance!

I've seen Yanks and Canadians come over in drove to fill gaps at charter companies, and foreign nationals work for UK airlines without hassle which sadly wouldn't happen in reverse.

However tis unrelated to the post, but please don't have a go when someone asks questions that expose the not so pleasent side of things.

[Re-Heat]

Call me old fashioned but surely the union meant to be looking out for the best interests of the industry
No, they are not - it is their members' interest that is and should be at heart, not potential members.

[Dreamshiner]

You have to join the union to attend.

I'm not marketing guru but surely being nice to future members is the first thing one is taught at customer relations school.

[EGCC4284]

It helped me get a job.

I met the manager of a Regional Airline at the October 2005 event and the information I got from him got me an interview with them in November 2006. I passed that interview and sim assessment and was offered a job. That job offer subsequently a week later got me the interview and sim assessment with my present employer on a larger aircraft that pays a lot more money and has a better future.

I now fly 737's and was a low houred (440) modular guy aged 39 when I started 3 months ago.

I may not of had the opportunity if I had not gone to the last 2 BALPA events. You make your own luck in this world.

Dreamshiner, make your own mind up whether you bother to go to the event or not.

I would say that if you feel this way, don't waste your own or anybody else's time and stay at home.

Its the best money I have ever spent attending the last two BALPA events.

Network, Network and Network

[Dreamshiner]

I don't doubt that the event is helpful, I just don't think BALPA can be hold its head up high with the amount they charge thats all.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

First of all Dreamshiner don't come onto my forum with thread titles involving swear words again or you'll be banned.

Secondly I believe the BALPA conference to be useful and at £60 it is a snip compared to the presumed investment you have already made in a professional flying career.

Thirdly BALPA organise this event for you Wannabes when they derive 99.9% of their revenues from non-Wannabes. Be grateful they take the time to provide something that might help you out.

Fourthly I strongly suspect that the £60 fee covers all their costs and doesn't make them a profit worth bothering with.


Good luck,

WWW

[Dreamshiner]

WWW I draw your attention to the bottom of the thread where there are three links with the same swear word.

Yeah, hard rules, different forum different rules. You've now been told not to do it again

Just because our training is so expensive, it hardly justifies everything else we consume, use or need should be inflated as a result.

You contend that BALPA inflate their fees for the careers conference and I contend that they don't.

Thirdly, BALPA is all heart, I doff my hat to them, kind gents they are.

They are paid for and work in the interests of their members. They are not a charity nor are they a help group for Wannabes

Forth, I reckon they get a free bar at their Christmas do

I very much doubt it, WWW

[Adios]

Dreamshiner,

Here are two of your statements:

"Anyone want to share why BALPA ask for £60 from hard up newly qualified/unemployed pilots for their career conference at Heathrow in October?"

and

"The reason for the thread was to ask if PPRuNer's thought £60 was justified, and those who were unaware of it to question if it was value for money."

My read of the original post tells me you were asking why BALPA charges £60, not whether anyone thinks it's good value for money. You clearly don't think it is, but so far nobody has agreed with you. I think it's great value for money. Maybe you should look at what you could get out of it to find the value proposition rather than what it costs BALPA to put it on.

[StudentInDebt]

Do airlines really pay to have a stall at the BALPA conference? These are the same airlines that receive 1000 unsolicited CVs every month right? I suppose they pay extra to actually talk to the multitudes.

[helimutt]

Thatcher? Who's he?

I'm led to believe BALPA successfully negotiated for a very nice increase in pay for offshore pilots not too long ago. 30%?

66.7% of your BALPA subscriptions are eligible for tax relief.

9500 Full 'members' encompassing 25 different companies can hardly be wrong, can they?


and you spent how much on your training? Would you like to lose your licence with no backup?

No pleasing some people I guess.;)

[sidtheesexist]

I'm with Dreamshiner on this one. I think sixty quid is a bit steep to say the least - almost Ryanairesque!!!! When I was a FT flying instructor and a regional TP pilot (associate and full BALPA membership held throughout both employs) I always felt (and still do ) that BALPA spent far too little time, effort and resources in looking after the smaller players. I'd like to see the association becoming far more involved in looking out for FT FIs Ts and Cs particularly..............And yes, I am still a fully paid up member of the union.

[Nereus]

£60 too much for a possible job?

hope I'm not with any of you lot downroute when the whole crew needs liquid refreshment.

[fireflybob]

I don't think £60 is that much to ask and I speak as one who was un employed for quite a while so I know what it's like!

It's also one way of sorting out the serious from the not so serious! If you are not able to invest £60 in your future career then perhaps you should become a shepherd on a hill. Also if it's given away for nothing it carries a lot less value than having to pay what is a nominal charge after all.

BALPA isn't perfect but it's a lot better than the alternative of not belonging to any union.

[helimutt]

so get together as FI's etc, use the union and demand a standard rate for instruction. It's not bloody rocket science. If all FI's stood together, rates would have to increase. If an hour flight training cost the customer £5-£10 an hour more, do you really think they'd give up flying training?

[coolcaptain]

WWW I draw your attention to the bottom of the thread where there are three links with the same swear word.

Yeah, hard rules, different forum different rules. You've now been told not to do it again


Dreamshiner,

Perhaps "taking the pee" would have been more appropriate in this case. Regardless, I tend to agree with you. It's not as if the Steve Miller Band is going to be performing an accoustical sideshow, so where's the cost justification? On the other hand, as some have said it's not a charity either, so you'll have to decide, I know I wouldn't be going.

[helimutt]

Steve Miller Band not worth £6 never mind £60!!! :E

[Groundloop]

I'd like to see the association becoming far more involved in looking out for FT FIs Ts and Cs particularly..............

And there was me thinking BALPA stood for British AIRLINE Pilots Association! Would they really want to get involved in negotiation with lots of flying schools tetering on the edge of bankruptcy?

[sidtheesexist]

And where do a lot of current airline pilots do their apprenticeships Groundloop whilst paying associate fees???? In my opinion, BALPA is there to look after the interests of professional pilots - not just the fully fledged airline pilot!!! If they take your fees as a non airline pilot, surely they have an obligation to take an interest in your ts and Cs???

What never ceases to amaze me is the ascerbic and dismissive tones of some of the posters on here - we all have differing points of view guys but blimey, the way some of you put down other differing viewpoints is scary.......:rolleyes:

[3Greens]

Sid

Whilst what you say is perhaps desireable BALPA is constrained by UK employment law. I suggest you take a look at the requirements for collective bargaining within a uk registered company. It might enlighten you why BALPA cannot/willnot have much use negotiating with small flying clubs.

FWIW £60 is good value for money, the airlines don't pay to be there - they are invited at no cost. BALPA doesn't aim to make a profit out of days such as this.