VC10 & Tristar

[globemaster3]

Does anyone have a clue of when the RAF gets their FSTA's,because i think the RAF VC-10s and Tristars will be at Brize for a While:ugh:

[globemaster3]

Hey its better than working at Mcdonalds e'h:}

[globemaster3]

Im not really a pilot,but a aspiring one,12 years old and 2 Hours in a cessna 152,looking to join Air Cadets and the RAF:)

[globemaster3]

Thanks for that,everyones comments are welcome:)

[RETDPI]

" Im not really a pilot,but a aspiring one,12 years old and 2 Hours in a cessna 152,looking to join Air Cadets and the RAF:)"

Didn't save up all your pocket money and buy a flying helmet you saw in a shop window did you?
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There's those who know the joke ........

[globemaster3]

Um no i didnt buy a flying helmet in a shop,um why ?:confused:

[RETDPI]

........and those who don't

[globemaster3]

What are you talking about mate:confused:

[RETDPI]

Never Mind.

[globemaster3]

No i dont do stuff like that,fortunately i was brought into the Aviation world by my dad,hes a Pilot:)

[RETDPI]

Then he'd know the joke then .









Possibly.

[globemaster3]

Sorry mate but im not intrested in these jokes that are made to slag people that are aspriring to do something,off,so mate if your gonna keep on replying on something usless u might aswell not post a comment at all,this Thread was ment to be about the VC-10 and Tristar not jokes,i think there is a jokes section somewhere in Pprune so if uve got any jokess to tell,i would be welcome to here them in the Jokes secction :rolleyes:

[RETDPI]

Ask your Dad about "attitude",
It might just help you in fulfilling your aspirations to join the branch.

[glad rag]

Get in their son....your are learning, fast young skywalker...

[globemaster3]

Which attitude are you talking about,the instrument in a cockpit or Attitude in a person,cuz u really confused me there:\

[globemaster3]

why thank you Glad Rag:ok:

[BEagle]

The VC10 and TriStar won't be replaced until at least 2011/12....assuming that the VC10s can actually stagger on for that long. The TriStars are in rather better state...just.

The contract for the FSTA A330 aircraft hasn't yet been signed. And it'll take at least 4-5 years for the first to be delivered.

Hopefully by then the RAF will be in a much better state than it is today.

Good luck, youngster!

[globemaster3]

According to AirTanker it deliver its tankers in 2034 ,SURELY the VC10S AND TRISTARS CANT LAST THAT LONG
:ugh: WOT ABOUT A C-130/A400M/C-17 TANKER OR EVEN CONVERT THE SENTRY

[BEagle]

No, that's when AirTanker envisage the contract ending!

A400M will have an AAR role, primarily to support helicopters.

To add an AAR role to the C-17A would be terribly expensive - not really viable.

E-3D has a fuselage full of electronics and electronic operators. There is simply no space to fit any extra fuel tanks.

If you're 12 now, by the time you've joined the ATC and subsequently the RAF, you would be well placed to fly quite a few interesting aircraft.

[globemaster3]

ye, thts if im accepted into the RAF:hmm:

[globemaster3]

Hey BEagle,you dont have any thing to do with Flybe Do you

[ArthurR]

Bigbluecar, loved the official line ( thread 3 ) but could only read a short way through them, had to stop, check my shoes and make sure I wasnot treading in it

[SirToppamHat]

Beagle wrote of the E-3D:
There is simply no space to fit any extra fuel tanks.


... not unless you were to remove the ovens and in-flight lard stores!;)

STH

[Always a Sapper]

WOT ABOUT A C-130/A400M/C-17 TANKER OR EVEN CONVERT THE SENTRY


With the way budgets are currently going and the Dear Leaders track record of timely service support (cuts) the only frames likely to be converted are the flying club warriers....:eek:

A couple of jerrycans 'arry blacked' to the wings and a trailing hose bodged up from the mess garden sprinkler system.....:hmm:

Got the tape, can lay me grips on the cans, the hose? a 2am raid on the mess garden shed should sort that one out........:suspect:

BEag's you up for doing the trial flights? ....... :E




come on.... it's a plan ain't it..... about as good as the one already going....

[Art Field]

Yes, the official line sounds great until you see it is dated 15 Sep 2006!!!!!

[peppermint_jam]

" Hopefully by then the RAF will be in a much better state than it is today."

I share that same hope BEags!!

[ArthurR]

Sorry Bluecar can not comment on that,
Cannot say much more, but look where I am working. Been off sick for a few weeks, hope to be back next week, if anybody from there is reading this thread they will know who I am. Worked on the GAF as well, that would probrally do as a good stop gap for the RAF. Also did first flight tests on the RAF Tristar, but only as an instrumentation engineer. ;)

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Q. Will all the aircraft be available to RAF at all times?
A. We expect the aircraft to be available when we need them – when they are not needed by RAF, they will be able to earn commercial, Third Party revenue.

This may seem flippant but how are these machines to painted and marked? Appreciating that the Roundel now adorns over-priced fashion clothing, is it expected to be seen on an aircraft tasked to move commercial freight?

[Sook]

The last Tristar shouldn't be out of service until at least 2015. Got to keep the old birds soldiering on somehow! Anyone know a good speedtape supplier? :rolleyes:

[Sook]

The last Tristars to go out of service will be the C2s and they're a couple of years younger than the Ks and KCs.

Interestingly, with regards to..

Q. Will all the aircraft be available to RAF at all times?
A. We expect the aircraft to be available when we need them – when they are not needed by RAF, they will be able to earn commercial, Third Party revenue.


What operator in their right mind is going to lease an aircraft that the RAF can call back at a moments notice? Imagine flying a bunch of passengers out to Spain, only for the aircraft to be requisitioned while it's out there. Also, what many countries aren't too happy about having military aircraft land at their major airports, so where would that leave them?

[Chad Norman]

bigbluecar,

216 Lineys and praise, it'll never catch on you know!

Nice thought though mate

Chad

[Out Of Trim]

What operator in their right mind is going to lease an aircraft that the RAF can call back at a moments notice? Imagine flying a bunch of passengers out to Spain, only for the aircraft to be requisitioned while it's out there. Also, what many countries aren't too happy about having military aircraft land at their major airports, so where would that leave them?

Exactly. Well said!

I can't get my head around this part of the proposition either; unless they allocate say half the fleet for RAF peace time tanking/tasking and the rest on Maintenance/ or available for charter etc. And then only use them all if pressed for wartime role.

With the politically unstable world we have today and the dawning of a new cold war, I can't see any being available for lease anyway. I still think it would be a lot cheaper in the long term to just purchase them outright and have done with it. PFI - what a poor idea! :ugh::ugh:

[Wader2]

Like the C17 you mean.

Lease not buy so less money up front, only 10000 miles per year and a $1 per mile over that and option to buy at the end of the contract.

Drive 100000 miles in first year so only option is to buy to avoid the penalty clauses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It should be a fairly easy 'what if' to look at present numbers and tasking and see how future FSTA numbers would fit. Would only half be used? Would all be used and overflown too?

[Al R]

What is scary, and obvious from the 'Official Line link' on thread 3 is that whoever is running this, hasn't got a clue. Either that, or it hasn't been thought out.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FactSheets/ProjectFactsheets/FstaQuestionsAndAnswers.htm

Q. Why not buy tankers outright? Can the MoD afford to buy tankers outright?
A. FSTA is scoped as a service rather than an asset procurement. Achieving Value for Money is the key driver.

My god. When I think of refuelling and service in the same thought, I think of a little chap juicing the old Triumph while I sat in it out of the rain. When I think of refuelling and being able to generate power and capability overseas in the Defence of the Realm, I tend to think of it as an asset. Nice to see though, that we're not simply doing it on the cheap, but rather, achieving value for money. :D

Might I offer an alternative answer?

Q. Why not buy tankers outright? Can the MoD afford to buy tankers outright?
A. No. Because we have no money, simple. Brown has spent it on Polish shipyards, the 2012 Games and redecorating the Married Quarters that he sold off to a Jap bank back in 1996.

That any better?

And what on earth..? :confused:

Q When will you make a final decision about PFI? / When will you sign the contract?
A. FSTA is a very complex project, including Aircraft, Training, Infrastructure & Maintenance but negotiations with AirTanker - aimed at securing detailed agreement on a PFI service contract – are well advanced. Air to Air Refuelling is a key military capability and we must make right decision for our Armed Forces.

Q. What happens if final agreement with AirTanker cannot be achieved and PFI is abandoned – are you looking at / continuing to look at fallback options?
A. We are working hard with AirTanker to conclude an acceptable PFI contract. However, Air Refuelling is a key military capability and we must make the right decision for our Armed Forces. It is only prudent that the MoD keep all of its options under continuous review.

Q. What is the likely Fallback option for FSTA – what aircraft does it rely on?
A. It would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage. We are working hard with AirTanker to conclude an acceptable PFI contract.

Sorry, but it looks like its being done on the hoof. The real answers?

Q When will you make a final decision about PFI? / When will you sign the contract?
A. When we know what we can afford.

Q. What happens if final agreement with AirTanker cannot be achieved and PFI is abandoned – are you looking at / continuing to look at fallback options?
A. As we have no one else who'll come near us with a bargepole, we are working hard with AirTanker to conclude an acceptable PFI contract. However, Air Refuelling is a key military capability and we must make the right decision for our Armed Forces. It is only prudent that the MoD keep all of its options under continuous review, which means, basically, that we're making it up as we go along and will try and get the best deal for the £13.74 thats available.

Q. What is the likely Fallback option for FSTA – what aircraft does it rely on?
A. Christ, we've been rumbled!! I know.. we'll tell 'em that it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage and that we are working hard with AirTanker to conclude an acceptable PFI contract.

Sorry, but what the hell is going on nowadays????? Perhaps its always been like this though. I remember the Tristars and VC10s landing on the pan at Abingdon and the tale of a few Frenchies who had to fly them back low level, gear down and with a short range comms to an escort because they were in such an appalling condition when they were bought. This is awful, it really is. I watched the Nimrod Panorama prog last night on YouTube and yes, I know we've always been hard up, and I know Panorama isn't a patch on what it used to be, but what the heck is going on???

We are having our interests dictated to by amateurs. Civil servants who haven'y got a clue how to haggle and negotiate, or who don't have the means to do it properly, or servicemen who are completely out of their depth. Really, something has got to be done, this is beyond a joke.

[Bob on the Ground]

Pedants Corner

It was the last Tory Govt that flogged the MQs to Anningtons in '96.

[Al R]

The process was a long one, but it was well into Browns tenure that the decision was made, and approved. It allowed him a couple of rosy years with the MoD and then the money was all gone.. and thats what we've been like ever since.

[Bob on the Ground]

Al,

They were sold to Anningtons on the 5th Nov '96. I'm not disputing that GB had the cash to play with, but he didn't approve the sale. We have Portillo to thank for that one.

[Al R]

Fair do's. :ok:

First Pembrey, now this. :{

[Out Of Trim]

First Pembrey, now this. :{

Why, what happened to Pembrey?

[Out Of Trim]

Oops disregard - Just saw the other thread.

[Al R]

It certainly hasn't been the best of days for me.:E

[30AB-JK]

I beg to differ!
Was once Tech an day-trip to Dakar for a Ships' Crew CX with a C2 when I couldn't get the APU to start after the T/R. So proceeded with preparing for a GRN PWD airstart -a 1957 Bedford which didn't even manage 15% N3! Tried both wing engines with no success, even thought of an old prop 'thing' parked just infront of us - but the BIG F/E poo-pooed that idea. Also asked a Ships' Engineer what power sources they had on deck? - a carrier I think - but nothing to turn the mighty 211!
So I eventually resorted to the books that rarely the see the light of day in the dog kennel, to troubleshoot the APU problem - after "adjusting/testing" the P3 filter - It burst into life and No 2 engine was speedily started before the unthinkable - as a night on deck was on the cards - and the big white bird ringfenced by SA80's & UK's finest I guess!
Anyway, days after our return to W Oxon, I received a letter via OC 216 from The Ships' Engineer that I had asked about GRN PWR sources on deck commending Us/Me for all our efforts in getting the Tri* and the Crew back home on time.
So praise and apprciation is recognised - maybe not as much as it should be though. Even my recent Masters in JFK have been known to express their apprciation - and that don't come easily. All they want is their 744F out of their - where ever it is - no excusses.