So the general dumbing down continues...Perusing yesterday's Times I see that GCSE exam setters have been instructed to make the questions on science papers easier...with more multiple guess questions...

Then Mrs R appears with the Standard (The evening paper in London for those who ain't from round the SE of England) In it was extensive coverage of the of the new statue of Nelson Mandela in London (the great man was there for the dedication etc etc ...However a sampling of passers by were asked if they knew who some of the others who had statues to their honour round the area were...

Nelson identified as Napoleon....Montgomery....nope that foxed most except for a Belgian lady... Cromwell...dunno was he the first Prime Minister? Churchill....I know the name but I'm not sure what he did.....

Sigh.......:ugh:

Well, I'm not from South East England (AKA London) but I do know what the Evening Standard is! We're not all thick!!!!

You've given us two examples of something in the press which you appear to have believed. If the ES asked a number of people who Nelson Mandela was, and they knew, would that have made entertaining "news", would an editor have seen it as printworthy? Unlikely!

Cheers

Whirls

I see that GCSE exam setters have been instructed to make the questions on science papers easier...with more multiple guess questions...
In a previous life I worked for an examination syndicate collating exams to be sent round the world. I remember looking at various international A level equivalent maths papers. All sorts of involved formulae and equations etc. The UK one? Pie charts in different colours with percentages to be worked out along the lines of "if 3/4 is yellow, what percentage (the rest of it) is blue?"
I reckon even I could have passed that paper and I gave up maths in 4th form cos I'm thick too.

Ace, are these people thick, i.e resistant to learning - or ignorant, i.e not educated to the standard you think they should be?

Quote: You've given us two examples of something in the press which you appear to have believed. If the ES asked a number of people who Nelson Mandela was, and they knew, would that have made entertaining "news", would an editor have seen it as printworthy? Unlikely!

Cheers

Whirls :unquote

So it's actually the newspapers that are dumbing US down:eek::confused:

I see that GCSE exam setters Being a pedant, I must point out that setters are a breed of dog. Do you mean GCSE examiners by any chance?

One learned that a statue of Abe Lincoln is in the same area ,what on earth is he doing here? one thunk we supported the Confederate side?:rolleyes:

What are any of them doing there? Why do we feel the need to put up statues of people who have never been of service to this nation?
It's bad enough that the huggies demand that Arthur Harris and Winnie are taken away and melted down, but now we're erecting statues of ex-terrorists.

What next, a life size bronze of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness down by Horseguards Parade, at Bishopsgate or up in Warrington?:ugh:

But on the subject of education and exams, was in the local pet shop the other week getting munchies for Lucyfer and the total came to 2.35. They don't have a till so add up in their heads or using pencil and paper. But the young (and new) shop assistant struggled to add up using pencil and paper, then had no idea what change to take from the money drawer (out of a tenner). Another staff member had to do it for her. Then she couldn't grasp how to count out the change to me and looked confused when her colleague did it.

Christ on a bike!

Whirls: As a former and sometimes still journo - I don't believe ANYTHING however the story does seem to support the experiences I've had...

Vit: You are right... I mean ignorant (ie not educated to the standard I believe should be the minimum) however these days the term appears to mean rude or ill mannered (or at least it does among the vocabularly challenged...). However it also seems to be the case that there is a resistance to learning too...

Blacksheep: Every-bleedin-where that's where...

I mean those that set the exams rather than those who mark the resulting papers (which I would call examiners)

Blimey rattled some cages there eh...

Blacksheep
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/setter?view=uk
pedant eh?

Terrorist? wtf! I thought he was the bloke who sang "Mammy Mammy" in the first talking picture?
:rolleyes:

It's a well known fact that 2/3rds of school leavers are not very good at maths.


The other 50% are just as bad.



If I wrote only my name on a GCSE exam paper, I would probably get an 'A', and if I spelt my name correctly, I would get an 'A*' :O

Ace Rimmer

......... ......... ...... ... ... .........

Must have kept the sub editor busy or too thick to use 'proper punctuation?

Yeah, but, no but, I mean, like, ZH875 isnt difikult to spel issit?

If I wrote only my name on a GCSE exam paper, I would probably get an 'A', and if I spelt my name correctly, I would get an 'A*' :O Where I went to Uni, they had a closed marking scheme with 40% the lowest possible mark and 60% the highest.

So if all you did was put your name on the top of the paper you would indeed score 40%. A pass was 50%. If you answered every answer perfectly you only got 60%.

They also used negative marking in the multi guesses. If you got a question wrong you lost one mark. Was intended to teach people not to guess, which might have bad consequences in that particular trade. I suspect if they used that scheme in the current GCSE/A-level there would be law suits filed for infringements of the scholar's human rights.

From on old BBC article.


Both questions are applicable to under-graduate science students.


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42842000/gif/_42842559_maths_diagram_416.gif



http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42843000/gif/_42843291_maths_diagram02_416.gif


Source: Royal Society of Chemistry


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6589301.stm#chinese

Whirlygig Well, I'm not from South East England (AKA London) but I do know what the Evening Standard is! We're not all thick!!!!

I'm sure that none of us would imply someone was thick simply because living several hundred miles from London they would be expected to know the London evening paper...I believe us 'Londoners' to be far more tolerant than that...

Personally I have no objection to thick people... like the poor they will always be with us... mostly the poor are thick which is why they're poor though there are exceptions... No..what I object to is being subjected to thick people... ideally they would play no part in my life and simply be remote and seen from car windows... the problem comes when they're foisted upon me..

When the UK had a manufacturing industry there were plenty of opportunities for the less cerebrally endowed... they could pack widgets or push widgets around on trollies, since the demise of widget manufacturing their offspring sprogs have taken to answering phones dealing with people like myself and testing my patience beyond the utmost bounds of human endurance... I notice during my infrequent returns to the UK that there is always a lot of litter lying about... could the thickies not be better employed stretching their intellects on cleaning the place up ?

Lass etc: Yep it's what subs are for...no point in having a dog and barking yourself.

It's interesting to me that the average kid in my vicinity is quite well informed about Nelson Mandela, Rosa Parks, Susan B. Anthony and the like, but if they know who George Washington is, it's usually in the context that he was a slave owner. It implies to me that schools are effective in teaching about racism, slavery and sexism, but don't care about broad historical awareness if it can't be related to the bonepicking of selectively annointed groups.

Similarly, if you ask who the state governor and two senators are of the kid's own state, the percent of correct responses will be in single digits. While I am as appalled as any European at the state of American public education, I rationalize that in our specialized world, one really only needs to be expert at one's narrow, chosen specialty. To strive for greater depth and intellect is a choice rather than a necessity.

In the end, someone is going to have to do the lousy jobs. I think those jobs should go to those who didn't put the effort into qualifying themselves for something better. The opportunities are certainly there, and paid for.

We'll see how it all plays out as the generations pass, won't we? I'm simply grateful that when I came along, adolescents were still required to study Shakespeare, as I'm sure I wouldn't have on my own.

I see that you are a politically incorrect, elitist, reactionary git.
Welcome to the club mate. :p:ok:


PS., Bit worried about your name Rimmer mate :E

Was intended to teach people not to guess, which might have bad consequences in that particular trade.



Naaah.......:) Do it all the time.

poorwanderingwun (you are a G&S devotee with that name aren't you?)
Just to let you know that all those dear folk you refer to have been employed by airports in the UK as security staff. ;)

As someone who has a child that has a degree of difficulty in learning, which we have sought help for, both professionally and with the school, ( incidentally the professionals diagnosed the problem but the school couldn't find the resources to help as other children had greater needs apparently ), I am about to experience the "opportunities" that are open to my child. Their GCSE results have been disappointing, but at the moment it would appear that any chances to improve are limited.

Colleges want to take on the bright young things, all A* and A-C's, but it's actually youngsters like mine, who are desperate to improve themselves but who struggle, that also need further education and assistance, in the right environment. Perhaps moreso, in order to stop them becoming "thick" ?

As it stands, we seem to give youngsters their chance at 15 to sit numerous GCSEs, not always taking account of their mental readiness in comparison to their physical age - less face it, some people are slower learners than others, and the opportunity to get some qualifications should not be dependant on one sitting.

Currently, I am looking at a scenario in which the preferred college and course ( which I believe will be right for my child ), will not be available because of the GCSE results not quite hitting the entry level. OK, "tough" I hear you say, "that'll teach 'em" but actually it's fairly counter productive, because the alternatives seem to be : a) go to another college in another town which may have different entry levels for the same course (!?), a possibility, but not a comparible environment compared to the one at home which will be of benefit, b) try to get a job, but be labelled "thick" or c) explore a private route to enable the GCSEs to be retaken and hope the local college will view this favourably next time around. (c) may be the best option, but I was rather hoping the "system" would be more responsive.

No doubt there will a few of you happy to label me as "fluffy" or "soft" or something similar, but I do think that there need's to a bit more support for those that aren't quite successful at GCSEs and who want to get on.

Woofrey but I do think that there need's to a bit more support for those that aren't quite successful at GCSEs and who want to get on.

Absolutely... and why not... so why is it that finding a plumber or someone who can plaster a wall is so bloody difficult ? Because everyone wants to go to 'college' whatever that means nowadays... and get a qualification in "Media Studies " ..." God made all men equal " well no.. he didn't.. so what's wrong with being a household electrician or a plumber ? Bring back apprentiships and not only many children be better off in adult life but so would the rest of us..

I remember looking at various international A level equivalent maths papers. All sorts of involved formulae and equations etc. The UK one? Pie charts in different colours with percentages to be worked out along the lines of "if 3/4 is yellow, what percentage (the rest of it) is blue?"
I reckon even I could have passed that paper and I gave up maths in 4th form cos I'm thick too.

Pie charts in A-level maths? I don't remember any.

Woofrey

Forgive my comments if they are obvious or unhelpful please.

I have 6 kids of various abilities and minor educational disabilities. One has a serious enough disability with reading and especially writing that he has received extra funding in earlier years at school and dispensation to use a computer for his exams.

Of course I am in Canada and help varies between our countries, and even here locally between institutions.

In checking out some of the local universities we found that there were programs that allowed students with recognised disabilites to gain entrance even though they had achieved below the accepted marks, especially if we could point to some other factor, community service or even a range of interests outside academic study that might offer the institution a reason to accept. In a couple of cases personal appeal to registrars by parents has been an effective door opener.

Our son did a year at UVIC where he used every help and student advice service going. He ended up having all his essays pre-viewed by his professors or their aides and that was after having them proofed by the student centre. He has now been accepted for RMC (Royal Military College)

Last word of moral support. Keep punching and never give up, ever.

Respectfully, ChrisVJ

Who thees thick people? A doctor with a lithp.

OK, OK. I know where the coat hangar is...

Definitions of "thick" as they relate to this thread :
1 Those who leave school with "x" A levels.....and can't even add up without a calculator......let alone spell using basic English grammar....and are under the impression they are "educated" . :ugh:
2. Those who possess a brain, but are too lazy to use it
3. Those who refuse to learn from their mistakes.

For anybody else however, the term is offensive given that the person concerned may well have difficulties in learning certain academic elements, in an academic enviroment, but may very well have the aptitude for non academic based vocations with trainng away from the school environment.


Then we have the issue of the school environment......many years ago, I was declared to have a "problem" because I could not, in theory, roll the "r" when speaking. As ever, the "expert" was wrong with her assessment, but the stigma remained whilst I was at the school.....and frankly a school environment may not always be the most conducive to learning anyway as I would happily confirm.......my education improved in leaps and bounds once I left the oppressive rat hole as indeed did many of my comtemporaries.

OK, OK. I know where the coat hangar is...


A coat hangar?

Quote Krystal N Chops:-
"Definitions of "thick" as they relate to this thread :

1 Those who leave school with "x" A levels.....and can't even add up without a calculator......let alone spell using basic English grammar....and are under the impression they are "educated" .

2. Those who possess a brain, but are too lazy to use it

3. Those who refuse to learn from thier mistakes. "

:p:p:p

PWW,
Are apprentiships only available in the Merchant Navy??

:E;) Want to talk about my shpelling error and experience my expertise with a jacking handle then Warkman ? :)......"nothing personal"..... as they say in the Soprono's :p

I have to admit that the multiple choice science GCSE is a joke. I sat mine in June and got an A*. While I'm happy that I got the highest possible mark, I think that we should be challenged a lot more. My science teachers told us that while they don't agree with the way the exams are written, we should just cash in on top marks as we are all capable. As it happens, I was surprised to hear some of my friends' who are very good at science get Bs and Cs.

My teachers are of the opinion that this multiple choice thing is just a 'craze' that the powers that be are into at the moment, but it will soon pass over. Personally, I'm not sure how effective the tests are because, while I was expected to get an A* by my teachers, so were a lot of others in my set who didn't. Maybe they were poorly prepared, but I have my doubts about the exams and think that the board of education (or whatever they're known as) need to sort their act together.

A coat hangar?Well, this is an aviation based Bulletin Board... :rolleyes:

OK, OK, I never even took my jacket off this time...

Blacksheep.
Make a bowl of jelly and put it in the fridge to set.
That would according to the "Concise dictionary" would qualify you to call yourself, or anyone else to refer to you as a setter, maybe not a long haired one, or an Irish one, but a setter.

"2 a person or thing that sets something."