Advice on leaving

[annoyedpilot]

Due to the fact that military personnel are no longer allowed tell anyone anything about what it's really like in the military, i am a civilian posting on behalf of a close friend.

He is a pilot on an operational squadron, with a couple of operational tours behind him.

He loves the friends, the banter, the chance he gets to make a real difference in the world and, most importantly, the flying.

When he joined up, he realised he would have to make sacrifices, especially with regards to family life, he realised there would be a lot of time away from home and he also realised that he was volunteering for a very dangerous job.

During training he had limited contact with people who were actually on the front line and was concentrating too much on passing the course to care about what the result would be anyway.

However, after time in the 'real air force' he has come to the conclusion that the stretch in the forces is too much for him personally.

He has had a couple of very close calls in theatre (which he accepts as an inevitable part of the job), however on return home, he was faced with crumbling accommodation, civilianisation, (that no matter what they say is a pure cost cutting exercise that only reduces the quality of service), low morale across the board and of course JPA!

He is disheartened that allowances have effectively been cut (through the back door) by the introduction of JPA, and also that when back in the UK, the aircraft are just so unservicable that he practically never gets to go flying.

In order to go flying he is also pressurised to accept unservicabilities and to rely on back up systems (that should be just that) as primary systems, leaving no redundancy.

He is Aircrew and therefore knows that it was inevitable that he was going to lose friends but, when you get the distinct feeling that because of penny pinching and cost cutting that you could easily be next, he feels that the pressure is too much for his young family and that it is time to leave.

Having spoken to the people around him he has come to the conclusion that the ones that are really unhappy outnumber the ones that aren't by a long way and he doesn't want to become one of unhappy ones just because he was too stubborn or frightened of life outside the military to quit.

Does anyone have any advice on leaving to join the airlines? Advice from anyone who did it from the position of a relatively junior pilot would be really helpful.

Many thanks

[Yellow Sun]

I fully endorse the comments of the last poster, your "friend" must get a license as their first priority.

Long haul/Short haul, you pays your money and takes your choice. BA, bmi, and some of the IT operators do both so your "friend" could keep their options open there. Virgin, Easy, Jet2 it's either one or the other and if you don't like it then you have to go elsewhere. Then of course there is NetJets who provide another option and who knows what direction they might take in future.

As the last poster says, think about where you intend to live if you go shorthaul. However bear in mind that whilst somewhere like Bristol, Exeter or Leeds might be appealing, when the command slot comes along it will probably be at one of the larger bases such as Gatwick or Stansted. Sometimes it's better to settle your family where they want to be and accept the commuting life, your choice.

In the last analysis the best thing your "friend" can do is go after a job with the best company he can find. (S)he should also bear in mind the old adage that:

"For a successful career in aviation you require a higher standard of foresight than eyesight"

Get a license and good luck.
YS

Edit: I note that as I wrote this the previous post was being deleted. However I hope that the "sense" of my post is retained.

[Flap62]

The first post depressed me more than I can say - not because I think it's the usual whinge but because it seems to be the norm. What a tragedy that the best job in the world has been so eroded.
I would advise your friend to make best speed to leave. It is so important to leave before you become one of the sad, moaners who whinge endlessly but don't have the balls to do something about it and leave.
I left as a junior officer and have seen the change in demeanour in mates as they left one by one. Suddenly the shoulders relax, the frowns disappear and life takes on a new look. Don't get me wrong, for the blokes who stay and enjoy it - brilliant! They've maybe just got skills that I don't have.
The key point for me is that you say your friend has a young family. Whatever kind of civvy job one gets, from Longhaul main-carrier to shorthaul lo cost, your family life will definitely improve.

[DrumMachine]

A colleague recently told me that if you get a firm job offer during your resettlement period, you can take it, provided you recieve no pay until you officially leave. I knew that you could use resettlement leave for this, but he has heard you can go at any time. Anyone else heard of this, or is it just wishful thinking!

[Mmmmnice]

My understanding of the sitch (mainly from info gleaned from previous leavers) is that you cannot take paid employment whilst on Resettlement Leave - but that it's OK to get paid when you are on Annual or Terminal Leave. So I guess one needs to make sure they take their various 'leaves' in a sensible order? It seems that overlapping payslips is not an uncommon occurrence! I am ready to stand corrected by the better informed if they know better?

[DON T]

Long time since I left and I agree that you couldn't be paid on resettlement leave but my civilian employer paid me much more in the second month than the first month when I officially paid no tax.

[Gezaware]

Sadly I endorse all of your points. There is not a day goes by where I don't here someone say what is happening to the RAF and its never in a good context.
I also have a "friend". An experienced FJ operator who is nearing his 38 exit date though was offered PA but has declined it. He loved his job but the scales that balance out the enjoyment factor of the job and all the things that p!ssed him off have now begun to tilt in the direction away from him enjoying the job.
Bizzarely he still loves the flying but its time to go. A very difficult decision as its something he has wanted to do since he was a nipper. He has been told that not to expect a greener pasture on the outside and he will inevitablly miss all that is still great about being in the RAF but forget all the bad.
As for job selection its got to be what gives you the best quality of life. There is no perfect job. Netjets gives you lots of flexibility as to where to live and friends who have gone that way say its great. Lots of variety but its still 6 days on 5 off. The big boys BA VA look good but you need to bear in mind that with BA as a FJ mate you go short haul and probably work hard. You will spend upto 10 years maybe more in the right hand seat. On the good side their promotion system is totally transparent and is done on time in and has nothing to do with your ability. Imagine that system in the RAF!!. Isn't ours a bit like that anyway!!
One last piece of advice. Be wary of the doom sayers. Its inveitable as you get closer to deciding to leave that you start to look for justification as to why you are leaving (my friend has found that) and there are plenty around you who gladly join in with you to have a bitch and moan about how really crap things are. Write down a big list of good and bad points in both civvy and RAF life and i'll bet you its fairly tight.
If you do decide to go then throw yourself into it, get your IR and MCC done. The resettlement process is awsome something the MOD has got spot on.

Best of luck to you (from my friend who has weeks to do)

[Champagne Anyone?]

If you have heavy, time don't forget Emerates, not only are they probably the best airline in the world, they are in need of pilots right now (something to the tune of 40 under strength) and I think from next month, they start taking delivery of their new fleet of aircraft at a rate of about 3 per month...

They will need crews for these as well. Fill your boots!!

[abbotyobs]

Emirates, is I am sure a good airline, but their minimum requirements for FO are 4000 total hours, which puts nearly all of us out of the running, especially FJ guys!

[120class]

As previous posters have said, you can indeed be paid by your new employer during both terminal and annual leave. You can work for someone else during resettlement (officially unpaid but as long as you are upfront with the taxman then it seems to be no real issue).

Incidently, the RAF will of course support you during resettlement by providing T&S (assuming the unavailability of public accomodation) which is a great help.

[charlies angel]

For all those people with friends thinking about leaving:O Tell them to jump whilst they are still at the top of their game. Who remembers that footballer who should have retired or the boxer who had to make one comeback fight too many? If you are going to leave then do so with your head held high with great memories. The water really is much nicer out here:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Long time since I left and I agree that you couldn't be paid on resettlement leave but my civilian employer paid me much more in the second month than the first month when I officially paid no tax.

I am not aware of the rule that your new employer has to tell your old employer that he is paying you.

Nor am I aware that HMRC will tell the MOD either as they will be more than happy with their 50% cut that month!

[Ghostflyer]

OOPs, I went to EK and I got paid.. Utoh! Charlie's right, 'je regret rien'

[BEagle]

There is always the 'Bouncer's Charter' (as I called it). Basically, a form of permission from your Stn Cdr which allows you to take on extra paid part-time work in your own time, as long as it doesn't clash with Service requirements. Approvals are, if I recall correctly, reviewed annually.

Originally it was intended to allow those in lower ranks to do a bit of 'controlled moonlighting' such as being a 'security assistant' at a local pub, perhaps. But nothing prevents the scheme applying to officers or SNCOs....

Thus during Resettlement Leave, Terminal Leave and accrued Annual Leave, you will probably have quite a lot of 'own time' in which to do such part-time work. Say your approval is due to expire in Sep 2008 - but you are due to start all your leave in April 2008, with an exit date of Aug 2008.... There'll be plenty of time for you to do such paid 'part-time' work for 3 months whilst still being paid by HM - all legal and above board, but you MUST declare it to HMRC, of course.

[Dan Winterland]

And although it's illegal to accept pay while still in the RAF, it's OK to accept a 'completion of training bonus' or suchlike when finally released from the service. I have a 'friend' who may or may not have done this.

[MrBernoulli]

By way of contrast, I thoroughly enjoyed doing sweet naff all during my resettlement/accrued annual leave etc, before beginning the new job less than 2 weeks after my exit date. :)

[philrigger]

;)
.......am not aware of the rule that your new employer has to tell your old employer that he is paying you.




When I left the service I spent 4 weeks on resettlement training in lieu of going on a course. The trainer had to sign a piece of paper to say that he would not pay me for the 4 weeks training. I then spent my 28 days terminal leave with the same company for very good wages.



'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

[Top Right]

Gezaware,

Quite right about the Doom Sayers, and also some of those all too familiar sayings:

"It's not the same as when I joined up": indeed, change is inevitable, effected mostly by politics, globalisation and technology. If anything, the only constant is change, but it is the same in all walks of life so not necessarily a factor for leaving unless Doom Sayers need to reassure themselves that it's a valid reason for them. And what about those studies that say that reluctance to change is directly proportional to increasing age ......

"I left at the right time": of course you did, except for some of those that didn't and came back in again (and some do). You made your choice based on work/life balance, conditions of service, interpretation of covenant etc at that time. But you don't have to prop up the bar convincing others (or yourself) that you left at the right time, because everyone else actually left at "the right time" too.

Hat on, grabbing coat

[Biggus]

I like to think I am not a 'Doom Sayer' - but I would like to make the following observation.....

I have been in the RAF for quite some time. When I first joined it was rare to find somebody leaving, and they were normally approaching 55. Indeed the concern of many aircrew was ensuring they were signed on at 38 for a full flying career.

Today a very large proportion of people around me are not talking 'about' leaving, but rather 'when' they are leaving. This is also not just 'crewroom' talk - they are actually voting with their feet, whether on PVR terms, or at an option point. The PVR rate may not reflect this, as they are not all PVRing, and they are not all going in the next 12 months, but rather in the next 2-4 years.

Now I am not saying the RAF is in 'meltdown'. I am sure it will survive. But morale at the coalface is generally lower (in my opinion) than I have ever seen it before. This is my personal observation, make of it what people will.

From a personal point of view I found it somewhat ironic that the man who 'allegedly' said....'if you don't like it get out' (or words to that effect) was on a MOD news webpage in July accepting the 'Investors in People' award for HQ Air.

When I went through officer training I was taught that leadership was about meeting simultaneously the needs of the task, team and individual. I believe these days the focus from above is only the completion of the task.

I won't say rant off, as I haven't been ranting. Rather I have tried to restrict myself to dispassionate observations. Feel free to disagree.....

[AR1]

I started work 3 months before I left. I studied the regulations regarding pay during this period, and I recall quite clearly it said, ' cannot receive payment during this period'

Thats fine. I had a word with HR - they paid me , in full, three months arrears the day after I officially left.

Back of the net!:ok:

[Wyler]

Was talking to a close friend yesterday who has just moved North from the Halls of Power. Melt Down does not even come close. If anything, I predict they will be looking to actually shed lots more people over the coming years.