Failed Simcheck

[Brie]

Hello,


Three weeks ago i had to do a sim check. But somehow i failed.
This is my 3th sim check in 1 year, 1 check i succeeded and 2 i failed.I really don't know what to think. Are my flying skills that poor or are the companies' requirements that strict?

Are here people with the same experience cause i really don't know what to think and how i should deal with this situation.

Thx

[boogie-nicey]

Sorry to hear that but chin up old boy, I'm sure that i'll come good. Perhaps a quick refresher on with one of the numerous sim assessment companies out there could help highlight where you were going wrong. Sometimes it's not just the flying but the personality, crm skills, etc....

At least you are getting invited for sim checks imagine the long line of people who don't even get that.

Who were these sim checks with and what kind of format did they take? (if you don't mind me asking) :ok:

[Brie]

Thx for the reply.

Well to be honest, i had to do 3 approaches. 2 went nice, the other simply not. I was really struggling. My crm was good i think. But what i don't get is the fact i never flew a jet before. How can they expect me to do it perfect??

[Blinkz]

If you've not flown a jet before then they will mainly be looking for a learning curve in that your flying gets steadily better through the session. If you make a mistake and it all goes downhill then that is not a good sign. but if you make a mistake but learn from it and improve through out the test then they will be happy. Just my experience anyway! I have done 2 sim checks, passed one and failed the other!

[lharle]

Don't worry,
I had the same pb, I had a sim check with 4 other people, I was the only one who was flying constantly and the one with the more experience (not difficult because the other 3 were ab-initio and I was flight instructor).
I still don't know how but I failed.
The only reason I can Come up with is that they all did some sim on 737 before the sim check.
But now I am flying a jet and upgrading captain in 3 months.
So don't worry, keep going you will get there if you keep going.
Good luck.

[Adios]

A jet MCC or JOC course is a heck of a lot cheaper than unemployment. Maybe you should consider investing in either one of these or at least a couple of practice sessions. It's a very inexpensive way to get a block of jet sim hours. If you think two hours is enough, then buy a practice session. If you think you need more, look for an MCC or JOC on a jet sim as they work out to about £100 to £150 per hour. If you go for a JOC, just make sure the FTO doesn't treat it as an add on to their MCC or you may not be up to scratch for starting it their way. If you have a sniff that your CRM skills may have been your downfall, then consider a jet MCC. I am not recommending it for the paper, as you already have it, rather as a cheaper way to get 15-20 hours and perhaps brush up on CRM.

[BelArgUSA]

Brie -
xxx
I dont know your specific circumstances. A failed sim check is generally not because of a single problem, but maybe a combination of various factors...
xxx
As an "old hand" in airline instruction with thousands of hours of simulator and line instruction, most failures of newly hired pilots (who often are competent CPL/IR/ME or even ATPL) are the "jet transition". They can fly a propeller aircraft obviously well, reciprocating or turboprop power, but handling a jet is different. It is not more difficult, merely different.
xxx
Example -
In simulator evaluation (I do that with 737-200 simulators), I often see competent propeller pilot asked to reduce speed from 300 to 200... with their propeller aircraft background, they often will just make a "slight power" reduction of "1 knob" on the thrust levers... whereas the proper technique is to go to full idle thrust in a jet... remember, propellers provide drag in power reductions, not so with jets... I see propeller pilots attempting to increase a rate of descent on a glide slope by... power reduction...! They might not know that a glide slope adjustment is flown primarily with pitch trim, and that power is strictly speed in a jet...
xxx
I would say that the "jet transition" is a problem that young pilots should address after obtaining their CPL/IR/ME... a quick fix would be an inexpensive CE-500 Citation type rating, which would give you some idea as to how a jet aircraft is flown, and concept of MCC and CRM...
xxx
Brie, t'en fais pas trop, tâche de t'informer sur les raisons de ton échec. Si un de "mes gars" ne passe pas, je lui donne une seconde chance, et si nécessaire, 1 ou 2 heures de sim en plus... Bonne chance à toi -
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[Brie]

Thx for the reply

Indeed i agree, a transition to a jet is very different. Anyway i was dissappointed when i heard the bad news. I also had the impression when you are struggling on the ils it is very difficult to get the aircraft right.

A citation rating may be an option. But then i have to find a job as well which is also very hardly to find.

grtz

[EGCC4284]

Sorry I have not read the thread as I am drunk due to celebrating my 40th birthday.

I failed a sim assessment in September 2005 for BA Citiflyer which became BA Connect which became Flybe.

It was upsetting at the time but I learnt a lot form it. A year later I had a sim assessment with BMI Regional which I passed and was offered a job. A month later I passed a sim assessment with Thomsonfly and started with them in April 2007. So there you have it. I learn from the experience and got on with looking for a job. Learn from your sim assessment and bring what you have learnt to future sim assessments.

Now flying 737's, Aged 40 with 440 hours. First job and hopefully only job till I retire

Dream do come true if you never give up, be positive and believe in yourself.

Positive mental attitude.

If you fail a sim, just learn from it.

I could of been flying a Dash for Flybe now but instead flying a 737 for Thomsonfly.

Going to bed now. Good luck all wannabes.

PS Network, network and network. BALPA Conference is a well worth while visit.

Night Night.

[Brie]

Well happy birthday.

I might consider gecat. But right now i'm a bit fed up with aviation. The last 6 years i "invested" a lot of efforts, time, sweat...etc but got nothing in return.

I asked for a feed back of my sim check but so far got no reply.

[Callsign Kilo]

First of all Brie, I am very sorry to hear about your sim check. I have a few friends who have been in the same situation as yourself, so I can't help feeling for you.

One thing that came from their experiences was that if they had the chance again they would hire a jet sim for a few hours prior to the assessment. As you say, transition to a jet can be quite daunting to the inexperienced pilot and from what I'm told the pitch power couple can be the major stumbling block. The time spent in a sim beforehand will also help benig your CRM up to scratch. I believe this is a major assessment point for any multi-crew position.
For me, I also feel that I may even benefit from a few hours in an FMPT2 prior to hiring a jet sim pre-assessment.

Since gaining my IR, I haven't had any real IF practice since June this year. It's amazing how rusty you can get, especially in this area, and especially if the practice is not there. These are my own thoughts I know and probably do little to console you. Once again I'm sorry for your experiences and best of luck for the future. :ok:

[EGCC4284]

Sober now. Never drank Whiskey before last night. Got quite hooked on it.

Started my PPL in August 1999 and finished IR in September 2005.

This was due to working full time doing an average 50-60 hour week for the 6 years that I was training. Spent every years holiday entitlement going flight training. I have a great wife who has supported me and stood by my side.

You need to stop self pitying yourself and be positive. There is no room in aviation for self pity. There are strong wannabe characters out there that will beat you to the job if you don't buck up and get on with getting your first break.

Its down to you to get the job.

Preparation is the key

Positive attitude and believing in yourself also helps.

Learn from pass sim experiences and take them with you to future sim sessions.

If you want to chat with me, PM me and I will PM you my contact details to get in touch.

One other point I forgot to mention. The sim for BMI Regional, I prepared for it using an Embraer 145 add on for Flight Sim 2004

The preparation I did for Thomsonfly was also done on Flightsim 2004.


Rob

[Just another student]

Brie keep your chin up and stay positive.

My only advice is if you have a sim check, get out there and get a couple of hours in an appropriate sim. If you are none TR then they will not be interested in your ability to know the 737, A320 etc I guess they look at the overall picture and your ability to learn.

If and when I move on from my current employer, I will do the same and hire a sim and I am fortunate enough to fly the 737 everyday!

You have worked so hard to just get that sim check, yes its more money, but getting into a sim beforehand is going to help so much.

[l8starter]

Don't give up Brie ! I was 8 years from starting PPL to getting my first job.Been flying commercially for nearly 8 years now. Failed one sim assessment a couple of years ago.Why ? I think 'cos I fly glass cockpit and my 'conventional' scan is now non-existant !The check was on an older type,and it showed.I came out thinking I couldn't fly anymore.Of course I can,but I only fly 'well' on what I know and am familiar with.To fly anything different,and fly it 'well' I would need some practice.We are all human,and we are all different,but practice makes perfect.

Good luck,and don't give;you are not alone,even if it feels like it.

L8

[Parkbremse]

maybe you pushed too hard at the approach that didn't went good... Don't be afraid to go around if you aren't stable on the approach. You won't fail the sim check for executing a go around, on the contrary you will get plus points for showing decision making skill.

Don't give up, you'll get there eventually :ok:

[Brie]

Indeed perhaps i tried too hard to do it well.

Anyway i did not have the time to practise because i had to do the check the day after the the interview.

Like most of you people advised me, i will keep going on. I'm considering Gecat. I must say i admire especially those people in their late 30's who finally got a job.

grtz