First flight in the left-hand seat?

[Chris777]

How smooth is the promotion from first officer to captain?

Is it possible that, on the next commercial airline flight I take, the captain could be commanding the jet for the very first time?

Or is he/she supervised by a training captain on the first few flights as a captain? (and therefore there is no F/O on board, but two captains instead)

Thanks for your answers.
Chris

[doo]

Chris,
The airline I work for has a very intensive promotion structure, 1st a command assessment, then a command course, then supervised line flying with a training Capt. (although that doesn't always mean that 2 Capt's together means one is under training, just that as with our lot outstation Capt's do fly together.) so at any point during the process if the f/o doesn't pass they don't go on to the next.

[Chris777]

Thanks, doo.

But what do you mean by "outstation captains fly together"? Do you mean that a flight has two captains simply because one of them needs to get to another airport (and so acts as an F/O)?

And does "supervised line flying" mean that there are two captains: one who's undergoing training and one teaching. Or THREE pilots: one undergoing training, one teaching (sitting behind?) and an F/O?

[doo]

Chris,
Outstation Capt's- Capt's based at an outstation i.e. not the main base, sometimes fly together as there are not an equal ammount of F/O's also based there.
"And does "supervised line flying" mean that there are two captains: one who's undergoing training and one teaching." Correct.

[Bullethead]

"First flight in the left-hand seat?"
Not by a long way, after all the sim sessions and line training and checking you'd have around 60 hours of LHS sim time and around 30 sectors in the LHS.
"Is it possible that, on the next commercial airline flight I take, the captain could be commanding the jet for the very first time?"
Yes and you probably wouldn't know it.
Sooner or later it's going to happen that a brand new Captain has to fly his first unsupervised sector, he can't be under supervision for ever.
As doo says there is an assessment process to sort out suitable candidates, ground school and endorsement if changing types then a fairly heavy duty training programme in the simulator followed by numerous sectors of line training followed, in my company, by two separate multi-sector trips being checked.
The first check is carried out with the checker acting as F/O and is thorough and involves in depth discussion on all manner of topics relating to the operation, the second check is conducted with a line F/O in the RHS with the checker being an observer and making virtually no input or comment until the very end.
You are well and truly ready for your 'first solo' by the end of it all.
Regards,
BH.

[Chris777]

Thanks, BulletHead.

Reassuring to hear that there are good systems in place. I thought so.

But does every airline make such an effort to train its captains? I understand that progression to captain is now very fast in the UK/Ireland low-cost carriers, but do they offer such thorough training or is anything comprised?

I recently flew with Ryanair and crossed paths with the Captain on the way to the toilet. Let's just say he looked very young indeed to be in command.

[Rainboe]

Are you seriously asking that?

Ryanair do appear to have some young Captains! My God, between you and me.......I've heard they....actually employ..........................girlie pilots as well!.......you know, of the female species! There's a compromise for you! I mean, how can they fly when it's a known fact the female brain can't reverse a car into a parking space? And there they are...out there....and the funny thing is they can land just as well as us!

[Chris777]

Rainboe, you have misunderstood my point.

I am not for one minute suggesting that Ryanair pilots are any less qualfied. I am perfectly aware that the licences pilots require are not issued by airlines, but by civil aviation authorities.

The point I was making is that it appears that pilots progress to command more quickly with the low-cost carriers. Consequently, the command evaluation process must be shorter than, say, with BA, and that, consequently, this means that younger, less experienced pilots command jets with the low-cost airlines than others.

If I am wrong, please correct me. I do not intend to cause offence.

As for female pilots, if I told you I read the Guardian, that might help to clarify my position on equal opportunities at work :)

[Rainboe]

No offence given or received! But you can rely on the CAA not allowing the Great BP (British Public) being 'compromised' in any way! Nobody makes it into the left hand seat unless they have been put through the wringer (and survived).

As for the Ryanair pilots, they look young because they work so hard they don't have time to grow old. And can the Guardian. Very dodgy politics, and you will have a warped sense of political views (and salary expectations for a 'Council Waste Disposal Operatives Diversity and Equal Opportunities Inspector' and other such vital jobs!). For some reason I have never fathomed, they give it away in my airline. I suppose because people won't pay good money for it. I still refuse to touch it. Actually as bad as that other one with a picture of Princess D in every issue- very hung up it is. She's dead, gone- wish they'd get over it.

[Chris777]

Hi Rainboe,

I mentioned the Guardian only to make it clear that I am not one of those old-fashioned gits who think that women should not be pilots!

Please do not stereotype me as a "Guardian reader". I do not, for example, subscribe to the Heathrow Camp debate and have read BALPA's report on aviation/climate change thoroughly (how many airline pilots can claim that I wonder...?)

I don't really want to get into a political discussion, but I don't think it is unreasonable to argue that people should at least be paid decent wages (not everyone earns a salary). I am not saying that everyone should earn £100k, but I think it is equally fair to say that certain airlines pay their pilots grossly inflated salaries (one look at the thread on pay on this website will confirm this) for the amount of flying they actually do. Especially when compared with the completely unregulated work that cabin crew do in return for approximately £14 a flight.

Chris

[Chris777]

By the way, there's a similar conversation going on in a posher area of this website:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=288776

[Gertcha]

For the right handed captains of 'busses on here. Was it strange to be controlling the aircraft with your left hand for the first time?

[Chris777]

Gertcha, I was going to ask the same thing.

Surely if you're right-handed, you can't fly an Airbus as well once you're promoted to Captain?

I'm right-handed, and I know what the results are when I write with my left-hand. Write, I say, not fly an aircraft with 200 passengers.

I understand that the stick is not used all that much for modern-day flying, but can you really make those minor adjustments in bank-angle with your weak hand?

[Bullethead]

It doesn't matter two hoots whether it's an Airbus or a Boeing if you sit in the RHS you fly with your right hand and if you sit in the LHS you fly with your left hand, presuming of course that you are facing the direction of travel. :p

Regards,
BH

[Pilot_in_the_making]

When you start your training at PPL level, you fly from day one in the left hand seat anyway.

I realise that the ancient crates we do are initial training in are the old 2 handed type control columns as opposed to hi-tech joystick (although some light aircraft have a single control stick), when I fly, my right hand is taken up doing various tasks such as trimming, tuning radios and beating the s**t out of my passenger in the right hand seat when they touch something they shouldn't!!!!! :E

Hence I can't see that it would make a lot of difference whether you are right-handed or left-handed, as you learn to fly the aircraft with your left hand from your very first flight anyway.

I find it more awkward to fly the aircraft as a passenger from the right hand seat when I fly with other pilots. It just doesn't feel natural but I guess thats just because I'm not used to flying right seat.

I would be quick to point out that I have never flown a jet before (I haven't got that far yet), but I guess the principle is the same.