Listening to ATC using a computer

[sholva]

Hello All,

This question goes out to anyone with a good know how about radios and computers. I want to listen to the ATC and aircraft transmissions at my local airport. However, buying a radio freq scanner or an airband transceiver is a bit out of my budget at the moment. I've listened to ATC transmissions at the major airports over the internet and really enjoyed it.

What I want to know is if it is possible to listen to ATC tranmissions using my computer with the aid of something like a TV card or a simple radio aerial. If this is possible could anyone tell me what hardware I need to get and what are some software programmes I could use. Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Sholva.

[P.Pilcher]

Although I stand to be corrected, for your computer to receive Aircraft R/T transmissions you will need a card containing the necessary VHF receiver parts and the bits to interface this with the computer. The demand for such a card is likely to be low thus if it is available, it will probably be expensive. You would probably do better by saving up for some form of air band receiver.

P.P.

[Saab Dastard]

P.P.,

I think you are quite right - ordinary TV / FM tuner cards do not receive the frequencies (> 108 MHz) or have the steps (25 KHz or less) required to access aviation transmissions. Further, I need to set my receiver to AM rather than FM to pick up ATC here in the UK.

So Sholva, unless you want to build / modify your own PC card, you will need to buy a dedicated airband / multiband receiver. You don't need a transceiver - you really don't want to be able to transmit, especially if you are listening in to ATC at a busy airport!

Please bear in mind that in many parts of the world (certainly the UK) it is actually illegal to listen in to such transmissions (and this is also true of the emergency services), unless you are a legitimate intended recipient. Or it has been put in the public domain - e.g. the live internet feeds you mention.

There have been various discussions (mainly in Private Flying forum) over the years on this topic - who's to know, what's the harm, it helps with R/T, I've got an R/T license 'cos I'm a pilot so it's OK etc. etc., so perhaps you can search for these if you want to .

SD

[BDiONU]

P.P.,
Please bear in mind that in many parts of the world (certainly the UK) it is actually illegal to listen in to such transmissions (and this is also true of the emergency services), unless you are a legitimate intended recipient. Or it has been put in the public domain
There is a sticky (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206063) in the ATC Forum about the law concerning listening to ATC in the UK.

BD

[Flying Lawyer]

I wonder how many people have ever been prosecuted for (illegally) listening in to ATC communications.

If the authorities were really concerned to enforce that particular law, they could take their pick from the scores of aviation enthusiasts using airband receivers at and around the perimeter of any major airport virtually every day.

FL

[frostbite]

Another factor to consider is whether your computer produces unwanted harmonics, 'birdies', on the frequency you find most interesting!

Happens a lot.

[green granite]

what you want is here, scroll down untill you get to WR-G305e WiNRADiO Ext USB Standard Scanning Receiver 9kHz - 1.8GHz there are quite a few different options as well.
but I don't think you would like the price though

http://www.wsplc.com/acatalog/Computer_controlled.html#a3860

FL as I understand it it's the "owners" of the frequency that have to instigate the proceedings against the person listening, and along time ago the then "owners" of civil ATC frequencies said they would never do so, that doesn't mean of course that they couldn't change their mind. It is really one of those unenforceable laws providing the person just sits quietly and listens and lets no-one else hear what he's doing.

[Saab Dastard]

green granite, thanks for that link - intersting, but seriously expensive kit!

About 10 times the cost of the hand-held receivers.

Pretty conclusive answer!

SD

[BDiONU]

I wonder how many people have ever been prosecuted for (illegally) listening in to ATC communications.
From my non legal viewpoint just because enforcement is a rare event (like prosecuting people for using mobile phones whilst driving) the law is still the law :=

BD

[Flying Lawyer]

gg

I agree it's unenforcable in 99% of instances.
I hadn't heard about that stance being taken re ATC communications, but it seems sensible and I don't know of anyone being prosecuted. (I'm not in a position to say it's never happened.)
If the authorities wanted to prosecute people for listening, it would be very easy to target spotters around airports but I assume they continue to take a common sense approach to a harmless hobby.
Some may think that using prosecution to try to enforce what many regard as a rather curious law would serve only to interfere with aviation enthusiasts' enjoyment and do nothing whatsoever to deter those who wish to listen to transmissions for some criminal purpose.


FL

[green granite]

Some may think that using prosecution to try to enforce what many regard as a rather curious law would serve only to interfere with aviation enthusiasts' enjoyment and do nothing whatsoever to deter those who wish to listen to transmissions for some criminal purpose.
Indeed FL.

There was a great screaming and shouting from various Chief Constables to ban scanners a few years ago so people couldn't listen to police messages and scarper before the police got to the scene, It went very quiet when somebody quipped "oh yes, in the same way making firearms illegal has stopped criminals from using them".

[BDiONU]

In the UK ATC do not 'own' the frequencies on which they broadcast. The radio spectrum is 'owned' by the government and ATC apply for a licence to use a frequency. There are very specific limitations on the use of that frequency in geographical boundaries and in height. When ATC detect interference on a frequency, from for example a pirate radio station or some moron transmitting on one (recent example (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=287540))they inform the home office. The home office send out a team to attempt to triangulate the source of the interference and they take action to shut it down, including legal action.
This is slightly different to enforcing listening in but the law does cover that under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra169r7.pdf)(WT Act). If such legislation seems rather heavy the answer is in the factsheet on the link I posted:
"Q. Isn’t it all right to listen as long as I don’t pass on what I hear?
A. No, using radio equipment to listen in, except as provided by section 5(1)(b) of the WT Act, is an offence, regardless of whether the information is passed on.
Q. Isn’t this all a bit heavy?
A. No. No-one likes their private or business conversations to be listened to. Parliament has passed these laws to protect the privacy of radio users."

BD

[green granite]

The people who pay for a license to use a frequency are the "owners" of that frequency in so much that it is they who determine who may use it. It is quite common at airshows for the tower frequency to be prominently displayed for all to see by the organizers and is taken as an invitation that you may listen if you wish.

Interference with a "protected" service is a totally different matter and is usually dealt with very swiftly by the RA (now part of Offcom.)

[Flying Lawyer]

As you say, interfering is totally different from simply listening.
One is trivial; the other potentially dangerous.

[Keef]

The simple answer to Sholva's question is that the lowest-cost way to listen to ATC is to buy an airband receiver. There are many on offer: anything continuously tuned will be awkward to use unless it has a digital frequency display. Digital synthesised receivers are available at (relatively) reasonable prices.

Regarding listening to ATC: in some countries (such as the UK) it is prohibited unless you have a licence, and even then only when in an aircraft. In other countries there is no such regulation, and anyone may listen.

I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted in the UK for listening to ATC (or indeed to much else), but that doesn't change the technical legal position, to which I defer to FL.

One of my former licences said I was not allowed to listen to any frequencies other than those covered by that licence. If I should accidentally hear anything on those frequencies, I was not to record it. If I should accidentally make a recording, I was not to play it to anyone not authorised to hear it. A very strange set of rules!

What is an absolute no-no is transmitting on airband other than for genuine aviation purposes.

[Shunter]

I know many other pilots, and ATC for that matter, and the only people I've ever met who give a rat's ass about listening to airband transmissions are forumites who seem to get some bizarre satisfaction from being able to trot out obscure legislation from memory.

Let's not forget this is a piece of legislation almost 60 years old which in many ways is grossly outdated in the 21st century. Any organisation with something they want to keep secret started using encrypted radio years ago.

Back when I was a student PPL, I used to listen to airband quite a lot and found it useful. I lived near the airport with great reception, but worked miles away, so set up a streaming server so I could tap into my scanner at home via the web. I mentioned this on a forum and from the ridiculous reponses I got you'd think I'd just confessed to hacking someone to death!

I phoned my regional police HQ and asked what their verdict was, and practically got hauled in for wasting police time.

[Keef]

That the law is obsolete and silly is not in dispute. That it is not enforced is also recognised.

Sorry if my remembering the law causes offence. You see, back then I had to pass written exams which required me to know that law. Sadly, I have the sort of memory that retains stuff, sometimes for weeks.

[Flying Lawyer]

Shunter

There's a lot of truth in what you say. :)
I don't suggest it necessarily applies to this thread (SD made the point factually and neutrally), but I've never ceased to be amazed by the speed with which it is quite often suggested that some activity or other is illegal, nor by the ingenuity some PPRuNers exhibit in coming up with tortuous reasoning to support their assertion that something is illegal even though it appears not to be.
For some reason, far more effort tends to be expended thinking of reasons why something is illegal than why it's not.

And even when something is against the law but trivial, there are always some who think every breach of the law should be prosecuted, however trivial.

Keef
That the law is obsolete and silly is not in dispute. One contributor to the thread appears not to agree. ;)

FL

[BDiONU]

[ One contributor to the thread appears not to agree. ;)
I would assume you're refering to me and you'd be wrong in that respect. The law is very often an ass however it is the law and we ignore the law at our own peril. Therefore (IMHO of course) it would not be a good thing to advise the OP that he could listen to ATC transmissions (in the UK) without also being made aware that he would be, technically, commiting an offence by doing so. Then he can make the choice as to whether to commit an offence or not.

BD

[frostbite]

To get back to the original subject.

I would forget about the computer element. The Winradio is superb and highly thought of but it is also highly priced and you will also have to set up some sort of antenna.

Look on eBay under Radio/Scanners and you will find loads. The Yupiteru MVT7100 has a good reputation & good frequency coverage that will let you listen elsewhere when you want to. The Alinco DJ-X3 is also quite good. There's loads that might suit you.

[Saab Dastard]

The Yupiteru MVT7100 is exactly what I have!

SD

[Keef]

Thanks, FL ;)

On the subject of "which radio", I agree that the computer-interface ones are very clever, but expensive.

I've heard several Yupiteru owners speak happily of their radios.

What you might find frustrating is listening on a portable, when you can only hear one side of the conversation (usually the aircraft). If you listen only to your local airfield, that won't be an issue, but if you start listening to stations further afield, you may then be wanting a better antenna.

[sholva]

Hello all,

Just wanted to say thankyou to everyone who posted replies. It would seem that i'm better off getting a separate receiver instead of tryin to use the computer.

And to answer one of the questions, I live in New Zealand and its legal to listen to ATC radio frequencies over here. I've seen some scanners that look like ordinary pocket radio's. Not like the usual walkie-talkie type. They seem a lot cheaper too. Any idea what some of the good brands might be for those types of receivers and what might be a good place(s) to buy one.

Thanks again,
Sholva

[BOAC]

sholva - a long-running thread in 'Spectators' I'm sure you will find useful. Most of your answers there.

[swordfling]

Whilst it doesn't currently appear to have any feeds from airports in New Zealand, you may be interested in LiveATC.net (http://www.liveatc.net), where you can listen to live ATC audio feeds from all over the world.

You may also find their FAQ entitled 'What is required to run a feed? (http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php/topic,1000.0.html)' useful in terms of equipment.

Interestingly, there are no UK feeds (I'm sure there used to be), which this (http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php/topic,2967.0.html) FAQ explains is due to legal issues...