Skills Test

[Leon H]

Hi All

I am just 10 hours in to my NPPL and am well into the circuit part of my training. I usually have lots of questions for my instructor but after half a dozen touch and go's (go'@s) in my lesson manage to forget to ask them. I do feel a bit drained after each lesson and usually only remember the questions when I get home.

What are the differences between the PPL and NPPL skills test.

Are the exams needed the same.

Many thanks in advance

Leon H.

[tangovictor]

Hi Leon
I have only done the nppl m. GST, from what I gather the differences are
nppl - 2 cross country's with 1 away landing each
ppl - 2 x/c with 2 away landings each, and further distance
nppl - no nav / radio aids
the written exams are similar, I guess your taking the nppl sep ? in which
case the aircraft general / principals of flight are same
nppl m is slightly different

[FullyFlapped]

nppl - no nav / radio aids
Is that true ? None at all ?

FF :eek:

[tangovictor]

As mentioned, my GST was nppl m, and 3 axix microlights, do not carry any radio / nav aids, due to weight, restrictions
the nppl sep, you would need to ask your instructor

[tmmorris]

According to one of my 'co-workers' who has an NPPL, yes. The ac he learned in all have VOR/ADF, even DME in some cases, and he was not shown how to use them or required to demonstrate them on the GST. Whereas the PPL(A) test requires things like a VOR cross cut, I seem to recall (or at least I was taught them and told they were one of my tools to use when lost, and we did some VOR tracking at Shawbury).

Tim

[Dave Gittins]

Presumably, if you don't do any radio training or pass any test, then you don't get a radio license and are not allowed to use the radio, which will severely retrict the places you can go as almost universally, you will be expected to make contact with A/G or FIS at the very least.

Are you allowed to fiddle with the transponder without a radio license ?

I would be slightly purturbed if there could be a lot of non-radio people around and not getting the same FIS as I am.

DGG

[bonniejack]

I am (if the weather ever permits it) getting to the end of my NPPL so perhaps I can contribute meaningfully. The written exams are the same as PPL. There is no radio navigation training required but RT is inevitably part of the learning. I operate out of class D airspace so need to communicate and sqwark with the best of them. The practical tests are the navigation test- same as for PPL. The cross country qualifier - triangular with 2 land aways. Same as PPL except I believe for the total distance but I am not sure about that bit. Then final handling test - same as PPL. So in real terms only the radio nav is different plus PPL does more insrument appreciation I believe. However whilst it is not a requirement I have been encouraged as proper airmanship to use all aids available so I do back up my map reading and DR with cross checks to DME/ADF. VOR has not been so useful up to now as EGNT VOR is long term outage - perhaps never to return? I feel VOR cross cuts require way too much head down time but it is another skill in the bag.

[tmmorris]

VOR cross cuts are certainly pants compared to VOR/DME fix, especially if you have one of those rulers with a compass rose on the end which you can plonk on a VOR and rotate to find the relevant radial. I got one free with something years ago and it's hardly left my side since...

Tim

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Off at a slight tangent, but when I did my PPL(A) ten years ago there was no radio nav include in the PPL. It came in with JAR.

The only 'official' training I have had was during the IMC course last year. Before that I was self-taught on Flight Sim!

On a different tangent, there is a commonly held view that because the requirements for NPPL and PPL are so similar, the only valid reason for choosing an NPPL is the reduced medical requirements.

[Jumbo Driver]

On a different tangent, there is a commonly held view that because the requirements for NPPL and PPL are so similar, the only valid reason for choosing an NPPL is the reduced medical requirements.


Other main differences for an NPPL v/v PPL are: no night, no multi, no IFR, and UK only.


JD
:)

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

That was my point JD - why would you sacrifice that lot (even if you didn't think it was relevant at the time) for the sake of a couple of extra hours of training.

[Jumbo Driver]

I think it is more than just a couple of extra hours.

AFAIK, the JAR-PPL currently requires a minimum of 45 hours, including 25+ dual, whereas the NPPL is a minimum of 32 hours, including 22+ dual, so there is a significant reduction in the hours' requirement for an NPPL, if those are the only privileges you want.

In addition to this, of course there is the less demanding medical which you mention, so an NPPL remains a distinct advantage to those who cannot meet either the financial or medical requirements of a PPL.


JD
:)

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

I would be interested to know how many NPPL students reach a sufficient level of airmanship to pass a skill test after 32 hours. Given that many PPL students go beyond 45 hours, I doubt it is many.

[wombat13]

Tall_guy_in_a_152

I would be interested to know how many NPPL students reach a sufficient level of airmanship to pass a skill test after 32 hours. Given that many PPL students go beyond 45 hours, I doubt it is many.

A very fair assumption.

As an aside, I read somewhere recently that JAR PPL was considered the "gold standard" in those countries that recognise it. Of the NPPL holders I know, there is nothing they do in their flying that sets them aside from JAR PPL. Just as competent in my book.

[Dave Gittins]

Meanwhile back at my question ... and maybe bonniejack knows the answer.

Do you have to do a radio practical and thus are you issued with a radio operators license at the end of it ??

I have one with my JAR PPL and unlike other countries (FAA) it is a seperate piece of paper.

DGG

[bonniejack]

Yes Dave you do a RT test . I know I will be doing mine soon but don't know what form the licence takes but for that matter I don't know what the NPPL looks like either. I assume it is a separate bit of expensive CAA approved longlasting and flight tested paper.If I can just get this QXC done I can find out pretty quick. A thread on the other site discusses weather through the gap to Carlisle which has such meaning for me at present.

[tangovictor]

Other main differences for an NPPL v/v PPL are: no night, no multi, no IFR, and UK only.

slightly wrong, the nppl m can be used to fly to Europe, nppl sep you can't
Re radio, I did the full RT course, which is seperate,
I do believe that some flexwing microlights do not have to have a radio fitted,

[Jumbo Driver]

Other main differences for an NPPL v/v PPL are: no night, no multi, no IFR, and UK only.

slightly wrong, the nppl m can be used to fly to Europe, nppl sep you can't

tangovictor, are you perhaps thinking of a SLMG rather than a microlight?

This is what ANO Schedule 8, Part A, Section 3 says:


National Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes)

Flight outside the United Kingdom

(2) He shall not fly:

(a) such a simple single engine aeroplane or a microlight aeroplane outside the United Kingdom except with the permission of the competent authority for the airspace in which he flies;

(b) such a SLMG in or over the territory of a Contracting State other than the United Kingdom except in accordance with permission granted by the competent authorities of that State provided that he may fly a SLMG outside the United Kingdom if his licence includes a SLMG rating and a medical certificate appropriate for such a flight.


JD
:)

[Crash one]

I have just finished mine NPPL (A) SSEA (land)
All written exams the same as PPL.
Standard training regime along with PPLs except less (2hrs) instrument apreciation. Seperate RT practical as PPL. Nav skill test is first, three legs with a divertion at some point. Then solo QXC 100 nm with 2 landaways, PPL is 150nm. Lastly GST. PFL, stalls, EFATO, circuits (glide, flapless, normal) tight turns slow flight etc, all as per PPL.
The only differences were Nav test & GST are seperate with the shorter solo QXC in between. Medical costs me £10 for GP autograph. UK airspace only, by day VMC, at the moment but may change when EASA get involved or so I believe.
Differences training can be done on tailwheels, wobbly props, retracts, turbos, not sure what else, seaplane (A) not yet unless you go for a microlight version??
Can't think of anything else except I took a lot more than 32hrs as most do unless you are 16 in which case you will probably want to go commercial at some point, or if you really want to fly in cloud, at night, in controlled airspace, in a jet twin, you will need the "Gold Standard"??? Personally I don't think there is a difference in the quality of training, just the priveleges. I used the VOR on my QXC just for exercise. It allowed me to dodge round hail & rain squalls without getting lost, destination had VOR which helped.
Good luck & enjoy the whole thing.

[tangovictor]

JD > there's an agreement that microlights can fly to Europe, that's the reason I brought a 3 axis microlight, apart from the fact it can out perform most spam cans at less than 1/2 the costs