Typhoon to go East (Next year?)

[Mr C Hinecap]

From The Telegraph:
RAF prepares to use Typhoon in combat (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/08/warmy208.xml)

No pressure Coningsby - we know DOT will be a resounding success :rolleyes:

[Not_a_boffin]

And that's the defence correspondent for the Telegraph??? Grasp of subject akin to MoD PR office.......

[EyesFront]

I liked the bit about pilots training to fly at up to mach 2 at 100 feet through narrow valleys....

Awesome!

It must be true - I read it in the papers

[c-bert]

And the following month we will be deploying Airwolf...:hmm::ugh:

[green granite]

I liked the bit about pilots training to fly at up to mach 2 at 100 feet through narrow valleys....

It ain't half going to be noisy in the Lake district and the Welsh valleys while they are practicing. :hmm: :)

[WolvoWill]

Love the way the article mentions Sniper for the Typhoon as well :ugh:.

Slightly confused how they will man the deployment in the longer term though, what with only 2 Typhoon squadrons stood up on the front line as of yet - 17 and 29 are surely going to be busy enough as it is with their own OEU and OCU tasks without sending crews/jets abroad to fight?

If the Harrier guys are overstretched trying to maintain jets there with 3/4 front line squadrons (lets ignore the 800/801/NSW issue for now), how will the Typhoon guys with only 2 squadrons stood up manage?

[27mm]

It's trickier than that - 11 Squadron currently is the only outfit scheduled as Swing-role.

[0497]

... a probable payload of two 1,000lb, laser guided Paveway bombs, the multi-role Typhoons will be able to deliver devastating firepower.

:DAwesome!! See Rafale over Afghanistan: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107450&highlight=rafale

You have ask yourself, where are the Tornados?

[sedburgh]

In the print version it gives the armament as Sidewinder, Meteor, Brimstone, Harpoon and Storm Shadow. I make that 0 out of 5 .

[Phil_R]

> You have ask yourself, where are the Tornados?

I have asked myself, and I don't know, so I'm going to ask you.

Where are the Tornados?

Presumably, they are currently stuck at the end of the runway which I understand isn't suitable for them, which begs the further question:

Where are the bulldozers, trucks of asphalt, and other runway-improving amenities?

Phil

[Razor61]

Why are the runways at Bagram etc unsuitable for GR4s while the USAF are operating their F-16s etc from them everyday?

[LateArmLive]

I'm sure you'll find it's not the runway that's the problem. But if you need to ask here, then you probably don't need to know :O

[BolkowJunior]

Well that's what it says in the telegraph - Has the MOD been holding out on us - is the Typrune VTOL?

[Vortex what...ouch!]

Slightly confused how they will man the deployment in the longer term though, what with only 2 Typhoon squadrons stood up on the front line as of yet - 17 and 29 are surely going to be busy enough as it is with their own OEU and OCU tasks without sending crews/jets abroad to fight?
Just a quick question, how can a sqn be stood up on the front line if they're not able to deploy. :hmm:

[F34NZ]

Judas Priest, who writes these things ? Not that I'd necessarily object to doing mach two down a valley - not until the first turn came up, anyway - but this is quality journalism for an educated readership ?

c-bert : you've blown it now. 49 Para were planning to HALO out of her over the Burj Al Arab and capture UBL before he could get out of his jacuzzi.

[WolvoWill]

Just a quick question, how can a sqn be stood up on the front line if they're not able to deploy. :hmm:Well, of course 3 and 11 could conceivably deploy, I wasn't questioning that :) maybe I should have elaborated. Either squadron could conceivably go out there sometime next year for a bit, that I'm not doubting - rather how viable it would be to maintain a Typhoon commitment there in the long term given current force levels, since I'm guessing guys from these squadrons would like to spend some time at home now and then!

With only 2 front line squadrons to draw aircraft and crews from though, manning an 6-8 aircraft detachment such as that at Kandahar will place a real strain on personnel who (should Typhoon be sent to replace the GR9 at Kandahar permanently) would find themselves spending so much time abroad, even more so than the current JFH folk.

Yes, 11 squadron will probably go in 2008, but I can't see a *sustained* Typhoon deployment as being practical - still too few jets and too few people in front line squadrons, with plenty of other competing priorities (QRA, conversion and evaluation), and whilst things can only get better as more pilots convert and more jets are delivered, I can't see things ramping up quickly enough for things to be drastically better in only a years time.

The cynic in me expects a quick deployment, lots of publicity (which looks good for the government who spent so much on Typhoon, looks good for the RAF in as much as the service can be seen to be using its new wonderplane, and looks good for BAE who gets to put 'combat proven' in the sales brochures...) then the Harrier boys continue to take the strain afterwards until we get a few more Typhoon squadrons up to speed.

All IMHO :)

[CrabInCab]

If the Harrier guys are overstretched trying to maintain jets there with 3/4 front line squadrons (lets ignore the 800/801/NSW issue for now), how will the Typhoon guys with only 2 squadrons stood up manage?

Commence lantern swinging.......

Come and have a chat with the SH force we'll give you some ideas, we've been doing it for years!:)

Good luck to the guys and gals of TF Typh, it'll be great to actually seeing the jet doing the job - as long as you're ready to do it and not pushed early to achieve some misguided PR quick win.

:ok:

[Lima Juliet]

From the Telegraph article...

Wing Co Gavin Parker, officer commanding of XI Squadron, which took delivery of the latest fighters, said: "The Typhoon is already an exceptional air-to-air fighter and is demonstrating excellent potential in the air-to-surface role. It will make it a fantastic close air support machine."

As long as they can find the target! XI Squadron couldn't even find their Standard presentation parade at RAF Coningsby! Still Tattershall Castle deserved another fly-past since the Tornado F3s did the last AOC's BVR flypast back in the 90s :ok:

Maybe the Taleban will hole up in a Tattershall Castle mock-up? :E

LJ

[Gen.Thomas Power]

LJ

You weren't, by any chance, an F3 navigator at RAF Coningsby at the time of the Tattershall Castle debacle were you? It's just that your comments appear to be lashed with all the venom of an AD 'directional consultant' humiliated, either by association, or by the fact that you weren't chosen to lead the flypast in question. Whatever else is wrong with Typhoon, at least Betty / Nora shuts up when the Battery Master is turned off at the end of a sortie . . .

:D

[ORAC]

DefenseNews: First Block 5 Typhoons Arrive at U.K. Squadron’s Base (http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2955809&C=europe)

The United Kingdom’s Royal Air Force (RAF) has taken delivery of the first two Typhoon multirole aircraft with an air-to-ground capability. The aircraft were flown to Coningsby air base Aug. 6 for pilot training.

The RAF’s XI Squadron, the lead unit for Typhoons in the ground attack role, is expected to declare operational capability in July 2008. Following that, the British are expected to deploy the aircraft to Afghanistan to replace Harrier GR9 aircraft now supporting NATO operations in the south of the country.

The aircraft delivered to XI Squadron are the first RAF aircraft upgraded to what is known as the Block 5 standard. The aircraft have improved handling and systems, and new defensive and offensive capabilities.

The Typhoon’s initial ground-attack capability allows it to carry the Brimstone anti-tank missile and the Enhanced Paveway II precision-guided bomb. Enhanced Paveway allows the pilot to aim the bomb using either global positioning or laser designation The aircraft continues to carry a range of air-to-air weapons. Part of the upgrade includes improved GPS guidance.

The first trial dropping of the Enhanced Paveway using a laser designator took place Aug. 7.

A BAE spokesman said a laser designator has not been selected for the Block 5 aircraft, and the company continues to consider its options ahead of contracting for a system to be fitted before Typhoon deploys for operations.

The company declined to name the laser-designator supplier for the Aug. 7 trial.

Further enhancements to the Typhoon’s air-to-ground weapons and systems are being developed as part of the Tranche 2 order from Typhoon partners Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain.

[reallydeskbound]

Whatever else is wrong with Typhoon, at least Betty / Nora shuts up when the Battery Master is turned off at the end of a sortie . . .
EXCELLENT!!!

[Jackonicko]

That's a most odd report.

By anyone but Andy Chuter and I'd dismiss it as bol.locks.

The first Block 5 jet has been at Coningsby for ages (it came from the R2 upgrade line) not only since Monday!

We all "know" what the core Block 5 A-G capabilities and weapons are (Litening 3, two EPW II, 55 rounds of 27-mm) and while the so-called COIN (which might not stand for counter insurgency in this case) mod package was new to me last week I'd understood that it doesn't include Brimstone.

And surely we all "know" that Litening 3 is the selected LDP for austere (and even that it's on contract with Ultra) but perhaps not for the full LGB integration in Block 10 - though some reports suggest that austere Litening is selected for Austere, and full Litening for the definitive Block 10 LDP. So why is BAE saying to Andy Chuter that:

"a laser designator has not been selected for the Block 5 aircraft, and the company continues to consider its options ahead of contracting for a system to be fitted before Typhoon deploys for operations."

and

"The company declined to name the laser-designator supplier for the Aug. 7 trial."

What?

WHAT???

Has anyone told Ultra?

And why would anyone say that:

"The Typhoon’s initial ground-attack capability allows it to carry the Brimstone anti-tank missile and the Enhanced Paveway II precision-guided bomb."


The Press Release said:

"08 August 2007

MOST CAPABLE RAF TYPHOONS YET GO ‘MULTI-ROLE’

Warton, United Kingdom. – BAE Systems has confirmed delivery of the first two Typhoon combat aircraft with multi-role capability to the Royal Air Force. The development means in addition to being able to take on and defeat other fighters in air-to-air combat, RAF Typhoons will soon be able to attack ground targets with GPS and laser-guided bombs – all in one mission.

Wing Commander Gavin Parker, Officer Commanding XI Squadron, took delivery of the first production programme version of the aircraft from BAE Systems on Monday, 6 August.

Before flying the aircraft down from BAE Systems in Warton, Lancashire to RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire, he said: “I think this is, in many respects, one of the most important milestones in the Eurofighter Typhoon programme to date. Typhoon is already an exceptional air-to-air fighter and is demonstrating excellent potential in the air-to-surface role. A combination of its range, payload and performance, coupled with the planned integration of a variety of air-to-surface weapons, will make it a fantastic close air support machine.”

Having accepted the new aircraft, XI Squadron will spend several months training to use the full capabilities of the combined functionality before declaring an operational capability in Jul 08 and their readiness to be deployed on multi-role operations as and when required.

This latest development follows the RAF’s announcement that it is now using the fighter as an integral part of the UK's airspace defence operations.

Both aircraft now delivered by BAE Systems to the RAF have air-to-air and initial air-to-ground capability, one coming from what is known as the Retrofit 2 upgrade programme, and the other from the production programme. They are the first RAF aircraft to have been upgraded to what is known as Block 5 standard, enhancing the aircraft’s handling and its systems - and adding new defensive and offensive capabilities.

Retrofit 2 will bring 115 aircraft from across Europe up to Block 5 standard. A further 25 Block 5 aircraft will be produced as part of the production programme. BAE Systems’ employees on the Typhoon programme will be working side by side with RAF personnel at bases in the UK and overseas supporting men and women on active operations.

Chris Boardman, managing director Typhoon at BAE Systems said: “We have worked in close partnership with the Ministry of Defence to introduce these enhancements and provide the RAF with a state-of-the-art combat aircraft.

He added: “By applying the principles of the Defence Industrial Strategy, we have also jointly developed a programme of combined maintenance and upgrade which will help minimise the cost of this work to the taxpayer, whilst maximising the RAF’s effectiveness.”

The maiden flight of the first Block 5 production aircraft has already demonstrated the benefits of continued improvements on the Typhoon development programme. Typhoon final assembly operations manager Martin Topping said: “The aircraft performed exceptionally well, achieving a high level of performance. This production flight acceptance testing flight was one of the best ever, achieving 90 per cent of the planned schedule.”

The Block 5 standard gives Typhoon full air-to-air and initial air-to-ground capability with full carefree handling. The aircraft is cleared for the 9g envelope as intended, with additional features such as sensor fusion; full direct voice input; enhanced global positioning system; defensive aids sub-system countermeasures including automatic chaff and flare dispensers; radar air-to-surface modes including ground mapping; and initial Forward Looking Infra-Red.

The Block 5 Typhoon will be equipped with air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles, plus laser-guided bombs. External fuel tanks are certified for supersonic flight, while air-to-air refuelling is cleared for all customer-specified tanker types.

This contradicts AFM

Under Contract Change Proposal 193 (delivered to the customer on 12 May 2006, and signed at the Farnborough air show on 20 July) the Main Development Contract was amended to provide an 'austere air to ground capability' on Tranche 1, Block 5 aircraft, and which would then be retrofitted to earlier Tranche 1 jets. This austere capability is based on the use of the 1,000-lb Lot 1 UK Enhanced Paveway II dual mode GPS/Laser-guided bomb (EPW II) and an austere integration of the the Rafael Litening 3 Laser Designation Pod (LDP), allowing the aircraft to autonomously or collaboratively designate single targets for single weapons.

By comparison with the full LDP capability planned for the Tranche 2 the Austere A-G capability will allow manual attacks against planned single targets only, in the forward hemisphere, using the HDD, and with simplified airframe masking. There will be no 'Swing capability' during the actual prosecution of an attack. It was estimated that the Austere A-G capability represented "80% of the final planned LGB capability,” albeit with less flexibility and with higher pilot workload. This was assessed as “comparing very well with the Jaguar in workload and capability terms.”

The final LDP integration will allow multi-target attacks in a single pass, with full LDP functionality, and with greater automation (with auto switching off of the laser, etc.). The definitive LDP integration will allow an aircraft to engage air-to-air targets even while prosecuting an attack.

The UK MoD signed a £56m contract with Ultra Electronics on 13 July 2006, covering the supply of 20 ‘Litening EF Generation III’ pods, with an initial 20 year support contract. The pods will be assembled in the UK from components and sub-assemblies supplied from Israel, and Ultra will undertake final assembly, and will then become the UK sovereign centre of expertise for Litening. Ultra will be responsible for any future integration and software work, thereby ensuring that the pods never have to return to, or be reliant on support from Israel.


EE Times

Ultra targeting pods contract for Eurofighter

By Colin Holland
EE Times UK
(07/17/06, 08:07:00 AM EDT)

LONDON — Ultra Electronics' Sonar & Communication Systems business has won a contract worth £56million from the U.K. Ministry of Defence to supply and support airborne laser targeting pods for the U.K. Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft.
The 'Litening' electronic pods are due to enter service in 2008 and Ultra's contract includes in-service support for 20 years.
Ultra is working with Rafael, the Litening Pod design authority who will be the principle subcontractor on the program to supply Litening EF (Gen III) which will provide the Typhoon aircraft with a air-to-ground targeting capability including the ability to laser-designate a ground target for attack by other assets.
This version of the Litening pod also provides a ground reconnaissance and scanning capability, even when the Eurofighter is flying at maximum speed at low altitudes and undertaking combat manoeuvres. The pod can store the digital record of the imagery to facilitate post-mission analysis for training purposes.
Additional operating modes include air-to-air targeting and the pod is also equipped with third-generation Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) sensors, the images from which can be fed into the pilot's head-up display (HUD) to assist low altitude supersonic night flying.


and Flight

Ultra in deal to supply Typhoon targeting pods 27/09/05

UK set to order first Litening III systems to prepare Eurofighter for multirole duties
The UK is to acquire an initial 20 Rafael Litening III targeting and navigation pods for its Eurofighter Typhoons under a deal with Ultra Electronics worth potentially £20 million ($36 million).
To provide the Royal Air Force’s Typhoon F1 fighters with the ability to detect, identify and track ground or maritime targets before self-designating them for attack using laser- or GPS-guided bombs, the 200kg (450lb) Litening III pod houses forward-looking infrared and colour TV cameras and a laser designator/rangefinder.
Israel’s Rafael Armament Development Authority will act as prime subcontractor for the deal, which covers pod production and the provision of through-life logistics support services. Ultra has not disclosed where the Litening III systems will be manufactured, although aircraft integration and flight-test activities in the UK will be overseen by NATO’s Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency.
Ultra has until 30 November to respond to a sole-source invitation to tender for the first phase of the laser targeting pod requirement, which was released by the UK Ministry of Defence on 1 September. The MoD says details of a second project phase have yet to be finalised, but that this is expected to lead to the procurement of “more of the same” systems. BAE has so far delivered 17 Typhoons to the RAF from its Tranche 1 production order for 37 F1s and 18 T1 trainers.
The RAF expects to have its Typhoons ready to undertake air-to-surface strike missions from early 2008.

as well as Ultra

Ultra today announced that its Sonar & Communication Systems division has recently received a contract from the UK Ministry of Defense and that the manufacturer will supply and support airborne laser targeting pods for the UK Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft in exchange for a sum of £56 million. Ultra will be providing the RAF with a level of equipment availability for operations under a Contractor Logistic Support (CLS) arrangement.

The Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft was initially developed to achieve supremacy in air-to-air combat. Therefore, the addition of the Litening pod is a key element of providing Typhoon with an advanced ability to attack targets on the ground with the speed and precision required by modern warfare.

"Ultra, with its teaming partner Rafael, will be providing this exceptional capability to the Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft. The addition of precision targeting as well as a ground reconnaissance capability will significantly enhance the operational capability of the Typhoon.
This is another example Ultra teaming with a world-class partner to give the UK Armed Forces a best-of-breed solution and, at the same time, to provide sovereign operational independence in accordance with the aims of the UK Defence Industrial Strategy," said Douglas Caster, Chief Executive of Ultra.

Ultra collaborates with Rafael, the Litening Pod design authority, which will be the main subcontractor on the plan. Consequently, the enhanced electronic pods, selected by Litening, are due to enter service in 2008, as Ultra’s contract also includes in-service support for 20 years.

The targeting pod to be provided is the Litening EF (Gen III) which is the latest version of Rafael’s Litening pod. It will provide the Typhoon aircraft with an air-to-ground targeting capability including the ability to laser-target a ground target for attack by other assets.

The pod is also equipped with third-generation Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) sensors, the images from which can be supplied into the pilot’s Head-Up Display (HUD) to assist low altitude supersonic night flying.

[27mm]

Thanx, Jackonicko - love the last sentence "...to assist with low altitude supersonic night flying...." - where do they get this twaddle from?

[rodneyn]

Spoken to BAE. There was a mistake in the press release. The "austere" eurofighter can only drop the Paveway II laser-guided bomb and dumb bombs. They cannot fire Brimstone, although there have been carriage trials.

[Dan Gerous]

It ain't half going to be noisy in the Lake district and the Welsh valleys while they are practicing.

GG, they could always come up here, and make a bit of noise in Selkirk to Moffat :ok:

[Lima Juliet]

Gen. Thomas Power

Thread Creep ON

Didn't you die on 6 Dec 1970? However, I note the one thing that you and I have in common is that we are (or were in your case!) "a rated pilot and aircraft observer". See link http://www.af.mil/bios/bio_print.asp?bioID=6801&page=1

The F3 BVR flypast was well publicised in the Falklands at the time via an amusing, but unofficial, magazine. It's nice to see the Coningsby Wing carry on the tradition into the next millenium, though!

I can't understand why I would be humiliated "by the fact that you weren't chosen to lead the flypast in question" - obviously for you the humiliation was unbearable? :{

Thread Creep OFF

LJ

[TEEEJ]

3(F) Sqn Typhoon ZJ929 was doing some target practice on the fence at Coningsby yesterday.

In the words of The Two Ronnies. Finally, a large hole appeared in RAF Coningsby's fence today. Police are looking into it!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/TOMMYJO/DSC_0489CBY.jpg

Two young lads were standing immediately to the left when the jet-blast blew the fence to pieces. They had a lucky escape. Not a very clever place to be standing in - especially right up against the fence.

[BEagle]

Spotters also used to appear at the fence at the Covert Oxonian Aerodorme on many occasions.

It took a bit of practice to work out the precise moment to call 'overshoot' for them to get the full benefit of 4 x Conways at close to max chat!

Back to the thread - an excellent analysis from Jacko!

Incidentally, my German colleagues always refer to it as the 'Eurofighter', never the 'Typhoon'. Perhaps that harks back to WW2 days? Although Lufthansa do, in fact, also operate a Typhoon. Or rather, a Me108 'Taifun'.

Good job they didn't call the Eurofighter the 'Cyclone' (Zyklon) though....the 2 seater 'B' model would have had a particularly unfortunate nomenclature.

[0497]

Thread UPDATE:

Flight Global (25/02/08) (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/02/25/221739/uk-prepares-for-multirole-deployment-of-eurofighter.html)


UK prepares for multirole deployment of Eurofighter Typhoon
By Craig Hoyle ([email protected])

The UK Royal Air Force appears to be on track to meet its target of being able to deploy the multirole Eurofighter Typhoon internationally from July

....

Harrier GR9s currently operating from the nation's Kandahar airfield could instead be replaced by a detachment of RAF Panavia Tornado GR4s .....

[Ivan Rogov]

The article mentions buying 8 - 10 Rubb shelters for Typhoon. Do the other fast jets fleets that are deployed now have these already?

Obviously not Rubb shelters for Typhoon, just Rubb shelters ;)

[Cherskiy]

Mach 2 down the Selkirk to Moffat? I'll have to brush up on my panning technique! :):D

[harrogate]

Wasn't there a press leak a few months ago that said two GR4 Sqns are to be ditched?

Cut back the numbers, bump up the workload.

[Dan Gerous]

Wasn't there a press leak a few months ago that said two GR4 Sqns are to be ditched?

Cut back the numbers, bump up the workload.

Find the busiest man and give him another job :}

[mystic_meg]

TEEEJ......

I'm sure there's a caption competition somewhere in that photo....

[Ivan Rogov]

0/0 is that gen about GR4 going to Afghanistan, please don't tell me we have just thrown a large wedge of extra cash at Typhoon so it can operate in the hostile terrain of the Lincolnshire Wolds. I quite accept the need for the aircraft but last year we were told repeatedly by the man at the top that it would be deployed this year, that was why it got more cash. Wouldn't it have been better to direct that towards currently deployed/deploying assets and allow Typhoon to progress as planned without impossible timelines? Was it ever really planned to deploy or was it a hidden agenda for export sales or securing the whole buy?

[harrogate]

Have you ever walked the Viking Way? It's lethal.

I don't see the problem with this story. Coningsby is east of Warton. Donna Nook is further east still. 11 Sqn 'deployed' to Leeming two weeks ago - still east of Warton.

They've not deceived anyone.

[Ivan Rogov]

Granted Grimsby can be considered hostile territory, especially on a Friday night :\
Re. the earlier photo. Was it a Typhoon or a Fencer?
http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/tumbleweed.gif (http://www.smileyhut.com)