Opinions On Taking Pictures on Aircraft

[RingwaySam]

Hello all,

Well when I travel I like to take pictures on departure and arrivals, or different things like storm clouds and so on. Theres quite alot of people that say it's illegal, but whenever I hear the Cabin Crew doing there Safety Demonstration they don't mention cameras. On a trip last year I was sat on the end row of a bmi ERJ flight from Manchester to Heathrow. On approach I was taking pictures of the landmarks of London, the F/A, as they seem to do on ERJs was sat in the aisle next to me, she didn't seem to bothered with me doing it.

Will any Pilots or Flight Attendants please post there opinions.

Thanks,
Sam

[FlyerFoto]

OK - so why should there be anything illegal about it?

As long as you comply with instructions regarding not using electronic equipment when asked not to do, i.e. landing and take-off (I assume you are using digital? Don't ask for trouble using huge telephoto lenses etc on the plane!)

Also, depending on the airport being used - is it a shared military base? Photographs in those circumstances may be unwelcome - but, above all, think about it - are you taking photographs in a situation that could, obviously be a cause of concern? If not, don't worry - enjoy yourself!

Edit by BOAC: I've taken out a couple of commercial links which do not have much to do with the question!

[BelArgUSA]

Hola Sam -
xxx
The "prohibited aerial photography" rules existed a long time ago, and probably are still in the law books of many countries. Many of these laws are now ignored... Remember, with Google Earth, you can get satellite photos of most places in the world, and with magnification, see what it looks like from some 300 or 400 feet high...
xxx
I learned to fly as a young kid, in 1958 in Belgium, in a little Piper Cub, and remember that the law said "no aerial photography"... I got the explanation of my instructor, a Sabena pilot, that it was because of "national defence", in particular, taking pictures of bridges, railroad stations or marshalling yards, were strictly prohibited...
xxx
Then later, I moved to the USA, where everyone took pictures anywhere from airplanes... when I started flying with PanAm, I always had a camera with me, and took numerous pictures at airports all over the world... mostly of airplanes. Many places, Africa and Asia, prohibited us from taking pictures on airports. Typical crew photographies, next to airstairs, or landing gear, or a flight attendant sittiing inside an engine inlet were... illegal pictures... I remember an irate airport guard in Karachi, grabbing my camera and forced me to take the film out of the camera, as I was taking pictures of our plane.
xxx
And anytime I was in the cockpit, in Moscow, I got pictures of the secret "Soviet" planes such as the TU-134s and the IL-18s, despite the Aeroflot/KGB "navigator" sitting on the jump seat (busy reading the Playboy magazines we never failed to give them).
xxx
Countries in Africa and Asia continue these laws today... No pictures. Possibly UK still has these laws, but nobody observes such laws any longer.
xxx
There are many ridiculous laws still observed in foreign countries. I got based in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia a long time working for Saudia contract. I liked to take pictures of the modern art monuments in the city. Once, I got arrested by the police, again, forcing me to give them my film... So later, I got a small camera, and did many more pictures...
xxx
In the same order of ideas, is radio receivers. When based overseas, I always had a shortwave Sony radio to listen to BBC World Service, or Radio France Int´l... my radio could also receive aviation VHF and HF broadcast in SSB. I heard that aviation VHF and HF SSB receivers were illegal in Saudi Arabia, so I always made sure to hide the radio if passing through customs...
xxx
Sam, continue taking your pictures, nobody will bother you in UK and in the EU, or the Americas... but for the rest of the world, hide the camera...
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[marlowe]

well from the cabin crew point of view landing and takeoff are when you want the pax to be a little aware of whats going on around them, and if they are playing with electronic gadgets ie, cameras .phones and the devils instrument the Blackberry then they could be slow to react to a situation developing. About a year ago had to rapidly disembark an aircraft and was amazed at how many people were turning gadgets on as they got off!!!!!! they were actually putting there own safety at risk just so they were contactable in the morgue!!!

[RingwaySam]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replys. I've never had trouble myself but i've heard a few things from other photographers. I tend to keep my bag, with the camera in under the seat infront of me until we are lining up on the runway.

I know theres places where getting a camera out is asking for trouble in places like Dubai Airport and other places. But while it's in the UK, US, Europe I assume it's ok?

Marlowe,

I can imagine! - Unlike alot of people i'd rather get out of the plane as soon as possible and then turn off my gadgets, that's if I havn't left them on the plane. Recharging you're gadgets is nothing compared to taking somebodys life or you're own over a stupid gadget. Passengers can terrible, and I don't fly that much! Specially those Latvian's who think it's ok to strole about the cabin on the takeoff role :=

Thanks,
Sam

[PaperTiger]

Crew normally couldn't care less. You're more likely to encounter a paranoid/busybody fellow passenger who thinks it's "illegal" or dam' well ought to be :eek: .

Just explain calmly and politely that there in fact is no law prohibiting what you are doing. If they still then go bleating to the FA or (even worse) a FAM, it's probably best to put the camera away just to avoid GBH of the earholes. There'll be other days.

[Rainboe]

Just be aware that Europe isn't so easy. Greece is extremely sensitive to photographers anywhere near airports, and if they're military- you will be locked up. Anywhere near airports or military installations anywhere, you must be extremely discrete about pulling a camera of any sort out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1649617.stm
These people lived a nightmare for a long time- because they were aeroplane enthusiasts, even though they were carrying their hobby paraphernalia with them. Be aware that many holiday destination airfields are also shared with military facilities.

[Rhys S. Negative]

A digital camera could certainly be construed as "electronic equipment", but is there any evidence that its use can affect the aircraft's systems?

Rhys.

[RingwaySam]

Thanks alot guys. I usually look on Airliners before I go, if theres a fair ammount of pictures then it's probably safe to shoot there. If im not sure I usually email a photographer.

Thanks,
Sam

[QWERTY9]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with taking pictures whilst mid-flight. There are no specific laws to prohibit you from doing so, though the airline can set it's own rulings which you do need to adhere to.
Now if you're taking shots with the lens pointing inside the cabin that's a different matter. A number of airlines may stop you from doing this on the grounds of securing the privacy of fellow passengers. They didn't get on board to have their picture taken did they !
If a fellow passenger was bothered by you taking shots out the window I'd politely ask him to mind his own business, though you're more likely to encounter that if travelling within the US as we know how paranoid the yanks are when it comes to aeroplanes or should I say airplanes !!

[Evening Star]

As long as you comply with instructions regarding not using electronic equipment when asked not to do, i.e. landing and take-off

Solution is to use nice old-fashioned manual SLR. Even for my hybrid Nikon FM3a, setting to manual disables all the electric's and, to be sure, I even remove the battery. No risk. Suppose one objection during take off and landing is that anything loose such as a camera could become a projectile in the event of something going wrong. Case of balancing the risk and not drawing attention to yourself.

I know theres places where getting a camera out is asking for trouble in places like Dubai Airport and other places. But while it's in the UK, US, Europe I assume it's ok?
Even then it is variable, as the example quoted by Rainboe so accurately describes. The difficulty is that there is no consistency and some of the laws are unenforceable. For example, I understand that it is illegal to take aerial photographs in Russia without permission, so this will get me into trouble...

http://web.mac.com/christopher.reeves/iWeb/Site/Online_files/2004084K%2022122004.jpg

...even if in reality it could be anywhere!

Would not be sure about the UK. Amongst the puffer nutter community there have been a number of high profile incidents, where the law, Network Rail guidelines and the opinions of the person on the ground are in sharp divergence. And always, the jobsworth uses 'security' as the basis for unreasonable interpretation of their duty. Even a casual read of PPRuNe will indicate that this goes on in aviation, so in the UK I personally would not push my luck ... well, not too far anyway.

Not UK, but example of a photograph taken discretely where I would get my hands slapped if noticed by officialdom (actually, this photo does nothing to help the discussion along, just wanted to show off):

http://web.mac.com/christopher.reeves/iWeb/Site/Online_files/2005075K%2016082005.jpg

[Pedalz]

Count in Australia too, I've never been asked to put a camera away and the F/A's have always been fine about it and other tech crew seem to find it as a normality, some are spotters too. I do beleive that camera's should be put away during finals/landing and take off but you can still get other fantastic photo's in the cruise.

[apaddyinuk]

Rhys S. Negative

I think you are missing the point. Digital cameras have nothing to do with affecting systems. The only system it is affecting is your own ability to react should a sudden situation develop. Not to mention that you now have a missile in your hands should the aircraft make any sudden movements possiblyl injuring yourself or another passenger. Small bulky items like cameras should still be secured in a piece of luggage or a seat pocket.

[Rainboe]

In BA Flight Crew orders, there used to be a long list of countries where photography was banned overhead or on airport territory, and the crew were instructed to prevent photography. A lot of countries still do take it seriously, so whilst you can happily snap away, in some surprising countries, as well as eastern Europe/former Soviet states/Asian countries, you may well feel a hand on your shoulder and handcuffs slipping on, and telling people to get knotted won't work! Just be careful and be discrete.

[WHBM]

you may well feel a hand on your shoulder and handcuffs slipping on
I find this unbelievable. Does anyone have any experience whatsoever of security authorities coming and arresting pax using their camera from an aircraft. My guess is that it's never enforced.

[Rainboe]

How do you know who all the other passengers are observing you photographing their country as you fly into it? All they would have to do is point a finger at you in Customs, and have your camera inspected. It's all very well disregarding these rules and you will get away with it 99.9999% of the time, but the rules are there, and it's the other 0.0001% (?) that will get you. For example- fly to Moscow and snap away happily en route? Try it to Greece? Turkey? Iran?

All I'm saying is beware there are rules and many countries that do take them seriously. the crews invariably are simply not aware (how many dozens of countries do they fly over/into?). Fly Olympic into Greece- how do you know the cabin crew won't finger you after arrival?

[GK430]

The hypocrisy about photography is ridiculous; how many airport duty free's sell cameras - but don't take a photo here once you paid for it:ugh:
Doha springs to mind.

The weirdest one of all was the departure lounge at ABZ - "what do you think you are photographing sir!!" A photo of something in the duty free - gee who was I offending:(

One place you would have been mad to take a camera out was Pula. Lots of Galeb's and Jastreb's years ago, but refrain from even looking.

Dubai is distinctly strange in ways. Day before the airshow, taken away for questioning. During the airshow, take camera out and shoot anything....but not off the airfield, unless you are very careful.

Southern Hemisphere:ok::ok:
It's still nice to know that some places still encourage photography.

As for not shooting during app/ldg......how many pics have I got of the crew doing just that:D Oh, and t/o too!

[Rhys S. Negative]

I don't think I was missing (or making) a point, so much as asking a question, in the hope of a knowledgable reply. My compact digital camera weighs a few ounces - I'm not talking of an SLR with a big lens.

But it does have an SD card and so qualifies (in my view) as an 'electronic device'. Will its use on final approach cause fluctuations in the glideslope, or cause a FBW airliner to execute a 360deg roll at an inopportune moment?

There have been previous threads discussing the effect of mobile phones, but I haven't seen one on digital cameras.

Rhys.

[WHBM]

But it does have an SD card and so qualifies (in my view) as an 'electronic device'
Well my wristwatch is electronic as well, but we don't all have to put them into a lead-lined box for the flight.

Well not so far, until the security loonies find another way to bump up their staff numbers by requiring this.

[Pilot_in_the_making]

In my opinion as an engineer working for a major airline and a PPL/student ATPL. I don't see a problem as long as you don't go taking photos of military controlled airports if you fly into them, and comply with the rules on using electronics. I realise it's not quite the same, but many of my friends take photos when we go flying in a light aircraft. I would suggest that you shouldn't have these large SLR cameras because of the projectile issue, but small cameras, I really don't see the fuss. :confused:


To quote GK430 who said:-

The hypocrisy about photography is ridiculous; how many airport duty free's sell cameras - but don't take a photo here once you paid for it:ugh:


My response:-

Ok, maybe you have a point, but many airport departure lounges have a chemists which sell condoms, need I say any more?!?!? :E

[Rainboe]

Some of you should stop using UK or US norms in making your conclusions. You will be in for a big surprise when you go abroad and find things are done differently Show up at a civil airport where you may not be aware but military facilities share the airport, in many places (seemingly in Greece most airports) with a camera, and be regarded as acting suspiciously, and you will be bewildered by the reaction. And not just Greece. These foreign places are not always as free and easy as the West. But it seems some of you are determined not to be told how it is! I refer you again to the earlier news reference I made.

I quite forgot myself. Lovely evening at 'a Greek airfield' recently, I took my camera on my walkaround and was gaily snapping away at the aircraft. Nobody took any notice, and I was just interested in pictures of my own aeroplane, but suddenly I recalled you don't do such things in Greece!

[arem]

Have carried my camera with me for the best part of 40 years - just excercised a certain amount of caution in certain parts of the world. Have many pictures taken from the flight deck over parts of the world where it is supposidly(?) forbidden.

As for electronics - have used Digital cameras SLR type for many years and I've lost count of the number of times I've left my phone on only to realise it half way across Siberia.

As many have said before - use discretion - its what distinguishes the human from animals and morons (aka security)

[GK430]

Pilot in the Making:D:D

You sure see things through a different set of Ray Bans;)

[CR2]

Agree with Rainboe. Use a little common sense. If you are in Harare and see Mil A/C (ok, AOG wrecks), don't get the camera out. Syria, Israel... I'm sure you're intelligent enough to get the picture.... (ouch).

[kiwi chick]

gulp. as she sees her job going out the window...

We operate an aerial photography business [we: he owns & photographs, I fly!] over here in NZ.

Firstly i wonder now if i should be banning him from having said camera open and ready until we are upon our first target ... :p :p said target also not knowing they're our target until he turns up to sell the photo to them... :suspect:

and secondly, we were operating around a military airfield the other day, ie photographing ALL the properties on and around its boundary, and never once were we questioned by ATC about what we were filming - which could potentially have been anything and everything inside the base!

Does this point to common sense prevailing over here for a commercial enterprise; or the sad state of our air force in that there is no longer anything to hide...? :(

[Data Dad]

back in the early 90's I flew Miami - Grand Cayman 2-3 times per year. Did the trip with several different airlines - Northwest/Pan Am/Cayman Airways and without fail as we approached Cuba the Flight Deck would announce that one of the conditions of Cuban overflight permission was no photographs from the plane.

I believe that Norway has/had a no photographs rule as well (aerial photographs without permission)

DD

[GK430]

Does this point to common sense prevailing over here for a commercial enterprise; or the sad state of our air force in that there is no longer anything to hide...?

Hey Kiwi Chick, we've all seen the 757 display and fantastic it is too:ok:
Don't worry, if you don't happen to photograph anything specific, at least you're capturing God's country for the rest to envy!

[LN-KGL]

I believe that Norway has/had a no photographs rule as well (aerial photographs without permission)
That's a new one for me :ooh:

I know back in the cold war times no photos were permitted in/around combined civil/military airports. These days you don't get in to any trouble taking photos - not even during the Nato foreign minister meeting this April

http://www.plane-spotter.com/Jpegs/840/NO/OSL_2007-04-27/ParkedAircraft.jpg

Here you can see Condi's C-40B up to the right in this picture. The C-40B is parked on taxiway X-ray and on the apron closer to Gardermoen Air Base the Fokker that brought the Dutch foreign minister is easy to recognize by its orange tail. The photo is taken with IXUS 700 from a SAS 73G heading for Stockholm.

Later that same day I got this photo
http://www.plane-spotter.com/Jpegs/840/UK/LondonCity2007/Battersea.jpg
Need I mention that I didn't see a flying pig this time? :8

The photo was taken from a SAS/Transwede AVRO RJ70 heading for London City Airport. Also this time the IXUS was of great help.