Biggin Hill Helicopters ???

[AussieAndy]

I just tried calling Biggin Hill Helicopters on 01959-540803 and I visited their website at www.bhh.co.uk (http://www.bhh.co.uk), and No-ones Home!!!

Does anyone know anything??

[Flying Lawyer]

I heard (about 6-8 weeks ago) that Bill Lowry, who founded BHH, had left. He stayed on for a period under the new owners but, as often happens, it's not easy for someone who's owned/run a company for many years to adapt to new owners' ideas about how the business should be run.

I heard some rumours about BHH earlier this week but, mindful of the risk to the owners of this site, I won't repeat them.

I urge others to show the same caution:
The owners of PPRuNe provide us with forums free of charge, but we have a corresponding responsibility not to put them at risk of legal action by posting potentially libelous rumours/allegations.

FL

[airdisplaysint]

They have renamed the company, changing the web address and telephone numbers. Have a look at www.helicopterdays.co.uk (http://www.helicopterdays.co.uk)

[nigelh]

Apparently they have over 30 yrs experience :confused: I wonder why they would suddenly change their name like that ? I hope that does not bode badly for any creditors:uhoh:

[heli-man]

According to the CAA website, 'helicopter days' have no AOC/TRTO/FTO. Looks like it's a 'voucher selling' business only.

[helispeediii]

how sad there were many good times good luck to bill helispeediii:sad:

[John Mortlock]

Looks like Heli1987bell spoke some truth months ago! I wonder if Bill wants to post another reply giving his side this time!?!? I have have noticed that BHH signs have been taken down and their web site is no longer working plus their ad page on AvBuyer is also gone. Looks like Bill & his son were made redundent and Lee Probert is not to be found? Helicopter days is just a voucher selling company set up by Lee out of his Hot Tube shop in Tunbridge. I also hope we do not have pilots/students sitting money lost through up front payments!!! :(

[AussieAndy]

I know of one company, (mine!) that is trying to recover monies from Mr. Probert. I called their offices many times these last few weeks only to be left hanging. I did try and speak with Bill as his post a few months ago would give the impression that BHH was important to him, only to find that he left over a month ago.

Are there any ex-staff that can shine a better light??

[Heliport]

John Mortlock

Welcome to the forum (in your new username.)
Looks like Heli1987bell spoke some truth months ago!
No, you didn't.
You made a number of libellous allegations and, when challenged, to substantiate them, couldn't.
When challenged to disclose your true ID to PPRuNe in confidence, you stopped posting.
Not surprising because, when I looked into your allegations, they turned out to be a pack of lies.

I wonder if Bill wants to post another reply giving his side this time!?!?
Read the posts.
Bill Lowry left BHH a month or more ago.

Heliport

[Ding Dong]

I am an ex-student that obtained my licence through BHH earlier this
year. Bill if you are reading this, I just want to say thank you, thanks for your time, and your experience. Thanks to all the staff, the instructors, and the engineers. At all times BHH was extremely professional, a great crew of people. I had a great time learning to become a helicopter pilot.



Thanks Again !!!

:ok:

[heli-man]

This is interesting reading.

http://www.payontime.co.uk/collect/phoenix_companies.html

[nigelh]

That is interesting reading. Does anybody know if they have gone under? Also do we know if the company has been re sold to this new operator ? And at what price ? May be interesting exercise to phone the liquidator and make an offer for it ....IF of course this is the case....which it may not be ....Are there many people out there owed money ????

[Exo.]

Just a quick note to Bill if he's about and reading, to chip in and thank him for giving me the start in my flying career.

Still think Dubai may have been a more sensible bet, but you twisted my arm and I certainly enjoyed instructing down there.

Now, where's the back of that creditors' list? I need to join it.

[Heliport]

Warning
As astute regulars will already have realised, several of the new usernames are the same person.


He's registering different names to agree with himself. :rolleyes:

Heliport

[psyan]

How utterly gutless. If anyone has a beef then state it instead of dancing about the place.

[91205]

I think the reason people are "dancing around" is that if they say something more concrete then it will get deleted by the moderator for being potentially libellous.

[Heliport]

Look at it from the PPRuNe owners' perspective.

They provide a free service, but that does not include putting themselves at risk of legal action by people posting anonymously.

If people wish to post allegations that could be libellous, they are required to provide a verifiable name and address, and information supporting their allegation.
Moderators are required to enforce that rule.
The PPRuNe owners then decide whether to allow the post.

We know from experience that allegations by newly-registered usernames need to be treated with even more caution.
Also, as in this thread, it is often one person using a number of different usernames.

I've removed some posts in an attempt to avoid the thread being closed. If people persist, the thread will inevitably be closed or removed by PPRuNe Admin.

Think before you post.



Heliport

[psyan]

HP - that seems more than reasonable and under that structure: [which I seem to have wrongly assumed everyone understood,] I say again " How utterly gutless. If anyone has a beef then state it instead of dancing about the place".

But of course that is not likely to happen, is it?

Best Wishes

[Whirlygig]

Your local, friendly Chartered Accountant has just had a delved into Companies House and has come up with Biggin Hill Helicopters Ltd as being a dormant company with a Company Secretary of @UKPLC Client Secretary Ltd and a Director being @UKPLC Client Directory Ltd; both being an organisation running company set-ups etc. This information was all current at Companies House as of 28.02.07.

Haven't found anything else but will investigate later. If there is a trading company name, can someone please let me know. All of this is within public domain knowledge.

Cheers

Whirls

[nigelh]

How do you define " dormant" ? Biggin Hill Helicopters was invoicing for charters up until 2 weeks ago. Does anybody know if they owned any helicopters or just used owners ones ? If they dont own any i guess a helicopter co with no machines and no aoc is not worth much then ??:confused:

[Whirlygig]

I define "dormant" in the same way as Companies Act 1985 does! :rolleyes: i.e. not trading.

Please note - this refers to Biggin Hill Helicopters Ltd; Biggin Hill Helicopters may well trade under another company name - that was the question I was asking! This is not to be considered "suspicious" at all; many companies do this for quite legitimate reasons so nothing can be inferred from this.

Cheers

Whirls

[Three Blades]

I think that I remember seeing a sign in the old office of BHH saying that "Biggin Hill Helicopters" was a trading name for another company with a name like "Hughes Helicopter Company" or "Hughes Helicopters Ltd".

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Hughes definitely rings a bell for BHH. I think that name appears on G-INFO if you search a BHH machine's registration.

I'm pretty sure I saw a very well known Formula 1 driver using a BHH registered twin squirrel during the period around the Silverstone Grand Prix.

Were BHH still going then, or was the machine lent to the driver or his sponsors as a favour, maybe by the owner?

[lartsa]

all uk companys have to put on thier letterheads the correct company name /company registration number
abc helicopters limited trading as bye bye helicopters co reg no 2342345
if any one has sight of a letterhead all shall be revealed

[AussieAndy]

Hughes Helicopter Co. Limited

Directors: W J Lowry
L Probert 06/03/1973

JWL Helicopters Limited also gets a mention! (As having been Invested in)

Mortgages held on G-CCRE, G-HOOT (Now G-TBHH), G-CCPY, G-OCBI, G-JAMA, G-IBHH, G-SCOO, G-SBHH and N-5001N

18/07/2007 - A Director and the Company Secretary resigned.

The Mortgages are held by Hollybrook Limited.

I would have checked the above on G-INFO however, when I tried, there seems to be a server error??

[Flying Lawyer]

Three Blades I think that I remember seeing a sign in the old office of BHH saying that "Biggin Hill Helicopters" was a trading name for another company with a name like "Hughes Helicopter Company" or "Hughes Helicopters Ltd".

I believe that's correct.
"Biggin Hill Helicopters" was a trading name. It traded under that name for 15 years or more. It was only a trading name, not a limited company.

Then, a couple of years ago, something rather odd happened .....

Someone (not "Biggin Hill Helicopters") registered a company as Biggin Hill Helicopters Limited.
As far as I know, nothing came of it and that company has never traded. (Whirlygig's research appears to confirm my belief.) However, it begs the question:
Why set up a company in someone else's trading name? :confused:

Some may find it difficult to think of an honourable motive for registering a company in someone else's trading name.

Lots of unanswered questions.
eg

Who registered Biggin Hill Helicopters Limited?
Who are/were the investors behind Biggin Hill Helicopters Limited?
What are/were their motives?
Can there be any motive other than planning to take advantage of the good name another business has built up over many years?
Are there people who knew BHH was struggling and, for their own motives, spread damaging rumours?
Are they behind some of the new usernames who appeared out of the woodwork in the last BHH thread earlier this year and now in this one?I've only flown from BHH once, a few years ago when I was looking for a Jetranger renewal urgently and they fitted me in, but I was very impressed by the FI (Simon), the Examiner (Bill Lowry) and the school set-up.



FL

[Three Blades]

"...a couple of years ago..."
Was this more like a year ago when the new partners appeared ?

[Flying Lawyer]

I don't know.
I thought it was some time in 2005, but I'm not sure and haven't checked.

What I do know is that it is nothing to do with what we know as Biggin Hill Helicopters.

Whoever did it is keeping very quiet.
The issue was raised in the last thread but nobody owned up.

I suppose it's possible there could be someone in the UK sufficiently involved with helicopters to set up the company but who doesn't read this forum - but highly unlikely IMHO.



FL

[hatters united]

Biggin Hill Helicopters I believe were brought by Mr :confused: and renamed Hughes Helicopters. They do not have a currant AOC, but sub charter out the work. The Chief Engineer is a certain Scotish gent from the Sywell area.

[Three Blades]

I understand that the engineering section is/was spun off into a second company

[FairWeatherFlyer]

There's a listing here for a company located at same hangar:
http://www.avbuyer.com/Directory/AviationSupplier.asp?CatId=&SubCatId=&Id=2097

[helispeediii]

bhh was agood company, wait and see who the owners of the new company are they will obviously be aware that under insolvecy laws it is illegal to be come a pheonix type company,i stand by bill good luck helispeediii

[manfromuncle]

Kent helicopters used to be the maintenance organisation. The only thing that seems to remain of bhh is the 'helicopter days' voucher selling business.

[chopper_johnny]

BHH was the trading name of Hughes Helicopter Co. Limited and always has been.

Kent Helicopters was a separate company and did the maintenance for BHH and others., but not so long ago BHH took over their own maintenance, and I believe Kent Helicopters are no more.

Also a while ago (year+) BHH took on a MD to run the day to day business side of BHH. Bill is an aviator, not a desk pilot. This seamed to be working well, when I was last hovering around drinkling their tea.

I'm sure as eggs are eggs, that Helicopterdays was an idea the new MD created, and you can from their website you can buy any of BHH's aircraft. No bargains though.

I get the feeling BHH has gone, as we used to know it and rumours are well a blaze. Lets not let rumours turn in to fiction.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

The only thing that seems to remain of bhh is the 'helicopter days' voucher selling business.
Are you sure, their web site (http://www.helicopterdays.co.uk/about-us/index.asp) says:
We're not an agency that takes your money and then books the day with another helicopter company. We take the booking, we provide the pilots, we utilize our own fleet and we do the flying.



Is there still Schweizer based training going on at Biggin Hill Airport?

[Bravo73]

Is there still Schweizer based training going on at Biggin Hill Airport?

There was certainly a Helispeed callsign flying around Biggin a couple of weeks ago. And it looked very much like an S300.

Although, rumour has it that they might be down an aircraft. See threads passim for details... :}

[Helinut]

There was a note in the latest BHAB Members' newsletter that Atlas Helicopters have taken over the charter and sightseeing tours part of Biggin Hill Helicopters. Not sure if they would use the Helispeed callsign though.

[manfromuncle]

The Helicopter days website also says they have 30 years of experience doing it. Personally, I would like to see the proof of that.

Correct, Atlas do their AOC work.

Also correct, they have just lost a Schweizer.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

Also correct, they have just lost a Schweizer.

Worse than losing a biro :-(

I heard a helispeed call sign on H4 yesterday but didn't see the craft. Would that have been an Atlas flight? Odd they would use the call sign from a defunct company?

[manfromuncle]

"Hughes Helicopter company" (trading as Biggin Hill Helicopters) is still a trading company according to companies house.

[Ding Dong]

... I heard a helispeed call sign on H4 yesterday but didn't see the craft. Would that have been an Atlas flight? Odd they would use the call sign from a defunct company?

There was certainly a Helispeed callsign flying around Biggin a couple of weeks ago. And it looked very much like an S300.

Although, rumour has it that they might be down an aircraft. See threads passim for details...

Yawn ..

With all the 'fantastic' pilots on here with great and postive things
to forward onto others, has it dawned on anyone to actual phone
and find out if anything is still flying.

...

I did ... :8

[Bravo73]

...

Yawn ..

With all the 'fantastic' pilots on here with great and postive things
to forward onto others, has it dawned on anyone to actual phone
and find out if anything is still flying.

...

I did ... :8


And? What were you told? :hmm:

[Ding Dong]

I'm going to go for a check on a 300 next month.

[Bravo73]

I am sure that plenty of Rotorheads will be pleased to hear that.

Both those who want to train on 300s (are you out there, cormac?) and those who are still owed money...

[MD900 Explorer]

Rumour has it, Bill is doing some teaching at a helicopter schoolnear Jerez, Spain. Dunno the name of the school, but there can't be too many down there.

MD :ok:

[windowseatplease]

As I understand it, people who are owed money are being told that money went to "the old company" and if they want to fly, then they have to pay money to "the new company".

[GNASHER66]

Also check out Heli Consultants Limited.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

I'm going to go for a check on a 300 next month.

Is that being done by Atlas or some other RTF/FTO?

[manfromuncle]

There is no FTO/TRTO there. Its a 'registered facilty' only.

[Heli80]

Do you know how many are owed money and who they are also what can be done about.

[manfromuncle]

If the rumours are to be believed... quite a lot of people are owed a lot of money.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

Not something i'm overly familiar with, but isn't the procedure here a winding up order - recently made famous by the crowd that tried to do it to HBOS as a lever to extract charge refunds!

[manfromuncle]

Even if you get a company wound up, if they have no money or assets, or have transferred or 'sold' their assets to a 'new' company, you won't get any money. Plus it will cost you legal/lawyer fees to do this. Very frustrating for people who are owed money.

[Heli80]

According to the accounts at company house they are not wound up yet nor are the other companys linked. So would that entitle you to keep flying to burn off hours owed or is that it?

[Three Blades]

As manfromuncle described, if the company has sold its assets and has no money there is little that you can do. If they no longer own/operate the helicopters then what are you going to fly ?
Instead of a winding up order you could try the small claims court. This route is less expensive (£100 or so to put your case and then another similar fee for enforcement). However the most aggressive utcome of this is that the court sends in balifs and if they have no assets to seize then you have wasted your time/money.
Sadly, if a limited company runs out of money there is little that can be done (unless there has been some illegality and you have grounds to sue a director). If you have paid upf for hours in advance then you have done little more than lent them money.

[A.Agincourt]

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

[manfromuncle]

Yes, try the small claims court. Or maybe this, if you have paid money, but not received services (ie flying)

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/callist.cgi

Or this

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/guidanceleaflets/dealingwithdebt/howtowindupacompany.htm


Good luck!

[fluffy5]

Ahh, the small claim's court. How many pilot's have trod the path to the small claims court against their former employers. If I only had a pound .......
Honestly the cheques in the post, yep posted it yesterday.
The words still haunt me to this day...
only in this game, with so called established training organisations.
My god I'm having a negative monday :}

[Three Blades]

A word of advise for anybody using the SCC:
If you get a judgement in your favour, do not wait for a few weeks to see if the defendant pays up but go straight to enforcement. If a company knows that they have a court judgement against them then they may start to 'move' assets. The sooner that you can get the balifs in the better. They may still get nothing but at least you have given it your best shot.

Stories like this ought to serve as a warning for the many people that pay for large chunks of hours up front. In doing so you are simply making a loan to the company and accepting interest in the form of a reduced hourly rate. First you should ask whay a company does not want to borrow from the bank and second you should think what your reply would be if you were just asked to make them a loan. Sadly, warm feelings of going flying can sometimes override our more headstrong side.

One point to bear in mind is if you paid for your hours by credit card then you may be able to enlist the card company to help you get the money back. (This does not apply so well to debit cards).

TB

[Brilliant Stuff]

Just to point out that the credit card pays only out if the transaction happened in the last three months.

[Three Blades]

Assuming there is no more S300 flying from Biggin, does anybody know where the nearest place it to get an LPC ?
Shoreham ?

[manfromuncle]

I think Cabair have a Schweizer based at Biggin and Blackbushe.

[Ding Dong]

I think Cabair have a Schweizer based at Biggin and Blackbushe

Blackbushe is the closest (if in london) for the 300, I have only ever seen R22's at Cabair at Biggin. Maybe Heliair at Denham .. But again I think its
mainly R22's ..

[VeeAny]

Cabair do indeed have a 300 at Biggin, but at the moment its on maintenance.

I was due to do some LPCs on it about 2 weeks ago week but we cancelled them due weather.

So they can be done at Biggin Hill if necessary.

[Three Blades]

Thanks all.
I am not in a hurry so will wait until the Cabair machine comes back on line
TB

[Ding Dong]

Cabair do indeed have a 300 at Biggin, but at the moment its on maintenance

good to know !

[blithe]

Latest news emerging from this is that the school's aircraft have been impounded by the airport authority due to unpaid debts.

[AussieAndy]

Just to report, American Express upheld our claim for monies owed to us by BHH and awarded the chargeback in full. Interestingly, the investigator at AMEX confirmed that they had paid out another customer who had bulk bought lessons.

AA...

[Heli69]

I've just spoken with someone from Helicopter days and apparently they are no longer doing trial lessons/SFH anymore. The guy I spoke to said they were moving and a new company were coming in (Not sure what this company will be doing exactly)

[manfromuncle]

What about all the people that have bought flight vouchers the last few months? This company should be ashamed of itself.

[Heli80]

Like a twit paid for bulk in cash, does anybody know if there is anybody putting in a claim against the company and if so how have they done it and how has it turned out?

[Three Blades]

Heli80,

If they owe you cash, put your claim in NOW (via SCC as described earlier).
Don't wait for somebody else to win their claim first as this will simply mean there is less left for you.
Make sure that the administrators/receivers also know that you have a claim.

I have been through this before (not in this industry) and it is important to get an aggressive claim in quickly.

Good luck
TB

[loach]

This all answers a few questions. I took a hop with Tony in BHH's grey 500 before it was destroyed, and went back to check out the machines they subsequently bought in Hawaii. Once the first black one was refurbished, I took another hop with Bill, worked out a deal to block buy 100 hours in it so that I could train, paid a 3k cash deposit and went off to get myself sorted out with the time I needed to take off and to round up the balance of funds. It took longer than expected, and last Summer when I called in to see the guys at BHH, all of the prefab offices were gone (along with the adjacent cafe), there was no-one at the hangar, and their mail was sitting outside the door to their hangar offices in a big pile.

I'm gutted. The guys seemed fantastic, Bill and Tony seemed very, very nifty in the 500, there was plenty of enthusiasm, and it seemed like a small and friendly operation that suited my needs to a 'T'. There was even a club arrangement that allowed me to use the 500. The missing 3k is bad enough, but I don't know what I'm going to do about training now. BHH ticked all of the boxes.

Is that it then? Are the Lowrys gone for good, with BHH finished forever?

[Heli69]

BHH are definately not operating anymore and havent been for a while. Last time I contacted Bill he was in Spain (Couple of weeks ago). I understood he was started up an operation there. I've been chasing the Helicopter days guys for the past month or so as they owe me money. They are not at Biggin anymore. The chasing continues........

[longbox]

does anyone know the current situation at Biggin Hill?

[tony 1969]

Bournemouth helicopters have a 300 CBi

[Heli80]

There is a 300 at Cabair Biggin

[tonge]

Just noticed this website;

http://www.skycharteruk.co.uk/index.html

Is that the old BHH hangar they are moving into?

Secondly, just being curious but what happened to the BHH helicopters? Any idea where they are now? They all seem to be registered still.

I did my first three hours of rotary flying in G-JAMA.

tonge

[flap flap flap]

Rumour has it, it's the same people that were running Hughes Helicopters Ltd/BHH/Helicopter days....

[md 600 driver]

me thinks their web site needs upgrading sheffield is closed and they cant spell sherburn in elmet [t] and i also thought that hields was the only heli company at sherburn

[Salusa]

me thinks their web site needs upgrading sheffield is closed an they cant spell sherburn in elmet [t] and i thought hields was the only heli company at sherburn

I reckon you need a lesson in spelling to mate. Either that or your pi$$ed before lunchtime which is also ok:ok:

[Whirlygig]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear .... now, where shall I start?

Firstly, it is one thing for someone on an informal forum to be "unorthodox" in their spelling and another for a professional, public website to have incorrect spelling; one is a bit of fun and the other should be a public relations matter!!

Secondly, for those who criticise one person's spelling and grammar "twice removed", had also better make sure that their own usage is correct!!!!

Cheers

Whirls

[md 600 driver]

whirl
what is the spelling mistake and i never said anything about grammar

i also had lunch 6 hours ago its now gone 8pm

[hatters united]

Skycharter is nothing to do with BHH/Hughes Helicopters etc.:p

[longbox]

Sky Charter are going to be carrying out operationd from hanger 500, they are nothing to do with BHH in the slightest, there will be a mixture of Jet Rangers, Long Rangers available for charter and SFH, also a flying school will be re-established, the offices and hanger have in the process of being renovated at this time;)

[MK10]

Is that the same skycharter that used to be heli-charter at Manston??
whats happened here then/:confused:

[longbox]

same ones, a base at manston and biggin, :ok:

[Flashover999]

Possible new S300 at Southend in June. Not sure where or by who.

[Whirlygig]

md600driver, don't be so defensive; it wasn't you to whom I was referring!! Although if you wish ..... :}

Cheers

Whirls

[wind for sale]

As has been said already Sky Charter UK has NOTHING to to with Hughes Helicopters, Biggin Hill Helicopters or Helicopter Days. They have taken over hanger 500 and are hoping to have the hanger fully operational very soon!!

[MK10]

reading this thread its quite obvious who works or is associated with skycharter...............just an observation.

[longbox]

I think it is a great thing that helicopters will continue to operate from Biggin, the bad blood left from BHH will take a while to leave, but most helicopter companies are nothing like them, and Sky Charter certainly is not, unfortuantly when you take over a hanger where this has happened, some of the doubt is there, more so when there were so many pheonix companies emerging from that hanger, however sky charter has a long track record and has traded from manston for many years, its owns its own helicopters, 5 206L 3 206 2 355F1 check out G-INFO and also operates several others for private individuals.

[longbox]

a visit will be the proof, and certainly on LP!

[longbox]

cetainly no LP i meant

[windowseatplease]

I'm sure a lot of people would like to "visit on LP".

[helis52]

Well i have visited LP at his detached 4 bedroomed home with his 2 lovely new cars on the drive way!!! Which we all probably paid for!!!! After knocking on his door he decided to hide in his bubble bath and sent his other half to the door. Its a shame, a few other people should go and pay him a visit. I ask was he a man or a mouse, but i had no reply now i know he is nothing but a low life wimp. :}

[windowseatplease]

Ha ha, nice one. I should have done the same, but just didn't want to waste my energy on such scum.

I imagine he has healthy bank balance too from floggin the B206 and the two 300s.

I would like to think justice will prevail at some point.

[helis52]

As far as im aware he personally didn't own any of the helicopters they were all owned by another company. Justice will prevail!

[windowseatplease]

Whatever, but I bet he did OK out of the demise of bhh (unlike everyone else) and is still flogging flight vouchers online.

[Capt Budgie]

Been a while since I last visited, but pleased to hear that LP is doing ok, would be gutted if all the money he stole from so many of us had not been put to good use!

Caught up with a chum who flies one of those weird machines with a vertical whirly thing on the front out of Biggin, apparently most if not all of the BHH machines are still in the hangar, yet the company that has since taken over the hangar have nothing to do with LP??????

Anyway, that :mad::mad::mad::mad: LP must surely be getting closer and closer to the day he finally gets what he deserves.

[windowseatplease]

I heard G-OCBI and G-JAMA were removed from the bhh hangar on a truck. Cheer yourself up and buy a trip over London/trial lesson from the helicopter days website. Just don't expect to actually go anywhere.

I don't think justice will ever catch up with him as he has done this to companys before and probably will again.

[Capt Budgie]

Sadly I think you're right, he probably will keep getting away with it. As far as the aircraft are concerned I guess that JAMA was only ever going to leave on a truck.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

On a general note, those that skirt around the edges of company law may also be familiar with libel laws...

[PEASACAKE]

Skycharter

Are they going to be offering a maintenance service at Biggin Hill, or is it just a flying operation....

[MK10]

145 should be approved shortly i hear

[FairWeatherFlyer]

I'm not aware of the fine details of the process, but i was expecting HUGHES HELICOPTER CO LTD. Company No. 02818931 to be insolvent and have a liquidator.

Companies house just shows it as status Active but with overdue accounts.

I was going to try the credit card claim route but i've been told the first port of call is the liquidators.

PMs or posts welcome.

[Whirlygig]

Not strictly true; a company is insolvent if it is unable to pay its debts. Either the shareholders can agree to put the company into liquidation (voluntary liquidation) or the creditors can apply to the courts to have the company liquidated/wound up (involuntary). There's also Receivership and Administration but these are different.

In either case, a liquidator has to be appointed and it's his duty to ensure that the assets are sold and the creditors paid. There is a strict order in which the creditors are paid being 1. the liquidator! 2. the government (PAYE, VAT etc) 3. creditors who hold a fixed or floating charge over any of the assets 4. employees up to £800 5. trade creditors (any "voucher" holders or people who paid in advance will come into this category) 6. the shareholders.

Directors of insolvent companies which are subsequently wound up are not necessarily disqualified from being company directors again; it would depend on whether they were held to be negligent.

Cheers

Whirls

[Heli80]

Does anyboby know who the Liquidators are and what their phone number is?

[manfromuncle]

There are no liquidators as "Hughes Helicopter Company Ltd" is still a legal trading company (on paper anyway). And even if there were you're not going to get anything as all the assets (inc. the aircraft) will have been either sold already or conveniently registered in other companies names.

[coolheat206b]

Flew with both Bill and Tony years ago and appeared nice chaps. Met LP on a couple of occassions and found him to be sly and a very oily..... not one to be trusted and it appears first impressions DO COUNT!! Sorry to hear all sad stories and looks like people are ....:ugh:

[Capt Budgie]

At last one bit of good news that has filtered through............. a former employee of BHH has sucessfully taken BHH / Helicopter Days / LP to an industrial tribunal. I believe that this occured a couple of months ago. Anyway, the former employee's case of unfair dismissal and a couple of other issues were upheld by the tribunal :D. Apparently LP was ordered to pay damages / costs. Obviously getting the payment for damages / costs is a completely different matter.

Does give those of us who have been stitched up a faint glimmer of hope!

Happy Christmas to you all :ok:

[windowseatplease]

I see the BHH helis are now being sold.

GINFO Search Results | Aircraft Register | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=JAMA)
GINFO Search Results | Aircraft Register | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=OCBI)
GINFO Search Results | Aircraft Register | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=TBHH)

Can we all expect cheques from LP soon?

Asset stripping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_stripping)
Top 10 Famous Con Men - The List Universe (http://listverse.com/crime/top-10-famous-con-men/)
A quarter of companies have fallen foul of a Phoenix company (http://www.payontime.co.uk/news/phoenix_company.html)

[JP27]

Heard some whispers about history possibly repeating itself? Anyone know if Sky Charter is still at Biggin? Rumour has it they may have departed but not sure on the reliability of source...any news anyone? Cheers.

[long box]

Sky Charter have moved out of Biggin back to Manston, the main reasons are the restrictions on single seat movements, now not allowed, makes it very hard to sell London Tours, very in flexible operating hours at weekends, and very high rents and charges couplesd with the 38k of CAA charges! all make for an un attractive idea. So the plan is they still own 9 helicopters and operate a futher 6 and will also have a presence at Rochester and their main base will be Manston.The diary is looking very good and i predict many companies making changes to ensure their position over the next very hard 18 months.

[hawker123]

so anyone know if it's true that Heli Charter has bought into the company now due to financial problems at Sky Charter? little birdie told me this was the case and thought it was bit odd how they have moved back to Manston...surely there were reasons to leave in the first place?!

[PEASACAKE]

I beleive that Bill Lowry was at Redhill Last week purchasing a 269..............

He was in DNH Helicopters hangar.

[windowseatplease]

I beleive that Bill Lowry was at Redhill Last week purchasing a 269..............


Oh no, please don't let the nightmare start again.

[hawker123]

no Bill was never involved in Sky Charter to my knowledge, he "left" with BHH...it's Sky Charter and Heli Charter I was wondering about. They took over Hangar 500 but have now moved back to Manston, as you can see in earlier threads

[longbox]

The reason for Sky Charter to move back to Manston was explained on an earlier thread, the connection with Heli-Charter is very simple, they maintain 7 of the 9 helicopters owned by Sky. Seems the move back has been all good so far with cost down and hours up, biggin and that hanger 500 are bad news!:=

[helispeediii]

windowseat please wheres the nightmare bill lowry is a good pilot/ instructor if he wants to start again good luck to him, you sure your not influenced by the director who took over from bill ?your nightmare is with them is it not rgs helispeediii

[windowseatplease]

Why a nightmare? Ask all the people who are still owed money in the industry by bhh. And Bill was co-director right up until the end.

[chopperbill]

Heard that too.

why couldn't it work for them at Biggin Hill of all places?
The hangar did have some 206's, As355 and a collection of two seaters, believe one of the 206's was used for spares.
Rumour has it short on cash and struggled to pay bills bounced a few payments. You sure they are not BHH?? :eek:

[fostaire]

I sold a Bell 206B formerly N5001N to Bill at BHH. From the only info I can find it is now GWBHH. Has anyone seen this A/C, and is it still flying? I am a Yank, and only met with Bill whyen he came to the US for the pre-purchase inspection, he seemed like a nice fellow. I hope all the best to anyone that found problems with BHH, and Bill as well.

[tbtstt]

From the only info I can find it is now GWBHH. Has anyone seen this A/C, and is it still flying?

N5001N/G-WBHH has never (last I heard) flown in the UK. It was grounded immediately upon entering the UK as it required a fairly significant amount of structural work.

I understood the aircraft was in Hangar 500 up until fairly recently, when it was relocated during the Sky Charter exodus from the premises.

[thwock]

G-JBHH last seen in AV8's Hangar Rochester

[Whirlygig]

It says "Active - proposal to strike off". Further credit references indicate that there was no winding-up petition against the company but there are six unsatisfied County Court Judgments against them totalling over £60k.

In January, they filed with Companies House the three month notification to dissolve the company and correct advertisement in The London Gazette was made in February.

Any further information and I'll have to start paying for it!!

Cheers

Whirls

[FairWeatherFlyer]

One of old BHH aircraft, G-SBHH, has been spotted in spain:

Photos: Schweizer 300C (269C) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Schweizer-300C-(269C)/1504317/M/)

[Whirlygig]

Ivor, it's what I do for a day-job :} My company already has subscriptions for credit checking and an account at Companies House. However, any further info I can glean, I'll let you know.

Cheers

Whirls

[thecontroller]

According to companies house Hughes Helicopter Co Ltd is still not dissolved, ie still a trading company. What's going on?

[FairWeatherFlyer]

02818931 is currently marked up as,

Status: Active - Proposal to Strike off

does anyone know anymore about any imminent changes to this status?

[manfromuncle]

What about JWL helicopters? And all the other companies involved?

[FairWeatherFlyer]

The Internet's wayback machine is out there for anyone wanting to reminisce or grimace over the spiralling decline:

Internet Archive Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.bhh.co.uk)

[manfromuncle]

Well, here's the latest..

G-OCBI (Hughes 300)

G-TBHH (AS355)

G-WBHH (Bell 206, formerly N5001N - the wreck that sat in the Bhh hangar)

All Bhh aircraft...are now registered to a "ALPHA PROPERTIES (LONDON) LTD". I doubt they purchased all three helicopters, so it looks like a transfer of assets to another company.

According to companies house, "Hughes Helicopter co ltd" and "JWL Helicopters" are still trading companies, ie not dissolved or struck off.

And still loads of people are out of pocket from a company that "went under" over two years ago....

[Whirlygig]

According to companies house, "Hughes Helicopter co ltd" and "JWL Helicopters" are still trading companies, ie not dissolved or struck off.Not when I looked ...

Both are pre-dissolution i.e. the proposal to strike off has been made and any creditors have three three months from that proposal to apply to the Courts to have the dissolution postponed.

Once a company has been dissolved, that's it, it's dead.

Cheers

Whirls

[manfromuncle]

It said "Active - proposal to strike off" back in March 2009. What's the hold up?

And how did Bhh manage to "sell" the three helicopters to 'Alpha Properties' without that money going to the creditors?

I bet if you look up who the directors of 'Alpha properties' are you will find some familiar names....

[Whirlygig]

I've no idea what the hold up is but, while there is a hold-up, there's a chance that the creditors may be able to put their claim to the liquidator (if one has been appointed). If not, then the creditors can apply to the court to have an independent insolvency practitioner appointed.

A liquidator could make the decision to sell the aircraft in order to realise whatever cash they can, and this cash is used to pay the creditors. However, there is an order in which creditors get paid; first, the liquidator's remuneration, then secured creditors (i.e. mortgage and charge holders), then the employees up to £800, then the Government (PAYE, VAT etc), then the rest, the trade creditors.

Once a company has been dissolved, there is no chance of any redress so surely you'd want that to happen later rather than sooner?

I bet if you look up who the directors of 'Alpha properties' are you will find some familiar names....I just have ... and the shareholders .... not names I know but then, I don't know BHH that well. Are you just guessing MFU?

Cheers

Whirls

[FairWeatherFlyer]

On the (UK) credit card front, if you find your card provider is being uncooperative about their "Joint and Several Liability" (Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974) then it's amazing how a bit of legal action speeds up their pedestrian correspondence and prompts them toward a reasonable conclusion!

I found this "support pack" to be a very useful tutorial:

Trading Standards Division - Consumer Advice - County Court Support Pack (http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/wirral/countycourtindex.htm)

And I was pleasantly surprised to find that part of the process has gone electronic:

http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/

[H300]

I am having difficulty getting my credit card company to honour a perfectly legitimate section 75 claim wrt unspent training hours bought with BHH. The card company does not dispute the fate of BHH, that I made a payment on account with BHH or that I flew with BHH on the same I made that payment. They are citing insufficient evidence on two counts 1) that I cannot provide any written terms and conditions to show that there was no expiry date on the training hours purchased and 2) that I cannot provide documentary evidence (eg. invoice) to show that I purchased training hours rather than something else.

Of course there was a verbal agreement that the hours were not time limited and as to the invoice, with BHH and other schools I have flown with, it was customary to give only a card voucher - no invoice/statement of account.

I would be very interested to hear from members similarly affected. Cheers.

[flap flap flap]

There may have been no time limit on the hours, but as the company has ceased trading, how can you use the hours?!

Flight schools usually only issue an invoice after a flight. I guess you could have asked for a Statement of Account, but the way things were run at bhh you would probably have got it scrawled on the back of a cigarette packet with burger stains on it.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

In my experience, the first line of 'service' at credit card companies disputes department will waste your time with a tedious, lengthy trail of paper correspondence.

The most annoying thing I found is they appear to take no consideration of your record as a customer - e.g. a claim for 1% of your total spend over 5 years as a loyal customer and clearly you're some sort of chancer.

I found it near impossible to use my BHH hours towards the end and with all the odd events (anyone remember Helicopter Days?) i'm not sure it would have been wise. And whilst everyone would wish to get their training done quickly, how could you put a hard limit on training with the British climate??

Nationwide paid up immediately (after the first stage of money claim via court), i'm now going after Barclaycard. In my case the sums are relatively low so I think they'd be imprudent to risk money on a defense in court.

(Barclays/Barclaycard have decided to defend my claim. They've got the big guns on the case, a trainee solicitor with the hand writing of a 7 year old!)

(There was mention of a 3 month limitation on claims in this thread - this is not true.)

[flap flap flap]

(anyone remember Helicopter Days?)


Ha ha, yes, only too well. People who were in credit with bhh being told "that was the 'old' company, you need to pay more money if you want to fly". Classic.

[FairWeatherFlyer]

A bit of nostalgia. An old sign, still there:

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j325/fairweatherflyer/pprune-rotorheads/biggin-sign-1.jpg

[johni]

is Tony Lowry still around...is he on here?

[Hughes500]

was it not Bill ? Think he is abroad last time I heard

[johni]

I understand Bill went to Spain, but returned to the UK.

Tony is Bill's son. Who also flew. I was wondering if he is on this forum?