Defrag for 98? [Archive]

Cameronian

3rd Aug 2007, 06:22

I am looking for a good, quick and cheap (free?!!) defragmenter for use in Windows 98. The two listed in the free software sticky don't work in 98 and the one which comes with 98 doesn't seem to work either - it counts up from 0% to 4% and then jumps back to 0% to repeat the exercise. That wouldn't be too bad but it kept it up until I got bored 32 hours later!!

Not having defragged since 1998, I can only imagine that it would be a good idea to do it now!

Thanks in advance for any help, links or even suggestions - apart from the obvious one of replacing this dinosaur!

DG101

3rd Aug 2007, 10:22

I seem to remember the trick with the W98 built in defrag tool was to ensure there eas nothing else running that could write to the disk. So, disconnect from the internet, disable the auto dialer and stop all processes that may access the disk.

Cannot think of all the likely candidates right now, as I haven't used W9x for a while.

Cameronian

3rd Aug 2007, 10:35

Thanks for that - I'll give it a try. The last time the only thing which wasn't turned off was the router so I'll turn it off later today when I can do without it and will post the result here!

Tarq57

3rd Aug 2007, 11:06

Try here. (http://www.mesich.com/)
My first "fix" or "tweak" ever. Made a huge difference to defrag times.
When the homepage opens, click on "troubleshooting" then "windows 98 defrag problems".
The man also helped me with several other problems when I had '98, shame the forums aren't still a going affair. :{
[Edit] PS, would pay to run a disk cleanup first, if you haven't already.
PSS, all sorts of goodies for '98, here, too. You'll have it running like new in no time. Of course, some of the freeware programs linked to might not be supported any more...

frostbite

3rd Aug 2007, 11:39

Do a google for Auslogics Defrag - it's much faster than the Windoze supplied version (what isn't?) and it's free!

Tarq57

3rd Aug 2007, 11:44

Auslogics would be excellent, if it worked in '98.
info
(http://www.auslogics.com/disk-defrag/)

BOAC

3rd Aug 2007, 14:02

The cure always used to be to run in Safe mode.

gofer

3rd Aug 2007, 14:54

run a google search on defrag windows 98 and research the proposed solutions -

Also look here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=109075)

Cameronian

3rd Aug 2007, 19:31

You're all stars! Thank you! I'll get to work on your suggestions over the weekend when I can do without the old thing for some of the time and I'll report back on my success.

IcePaq

3rd Aug 2007, 19:55

Turn off the screen saver.

Gertrude the Wombat

3rd Aug 2007, 20:28

(1) Turn off whatever it is that runs each time you get to 3%.

(2) Or simply don't bother. I have never seen any reliable evidence that it makes any difference that's noticeable in real life. (Yes I'm sure someone has run some "scientific" tests that show that something-or-other is several milliseconds faster after defragging, but ... er, so what.)

frostbite

3rd Aug 2007, 21:52

That's possibly a very valid point, GtW !

Certainly not worth wearing out the HDD with "That wouldn't be too bad but it kept it up until I got bored 32 hours later!!"

After all this time, there's going to be loads of tmp, chk etc. clagging it up so get rid of all that, then possibly defrag - no point in having defrag move all that into neat little sections!

Cameronian

4th Aug 2007, 01:19

Well, markjoy, I went to the 98 site and downloaded his defrag program. I have no screensaver and no pretty picture either so had nothing to stop there. I turned off my router but didn't go into dos or safe mode. There was nothing open except the new defrag.

I ran it for five hours showing details so I would be entertained at least a little. It never got beyond "check for errors", counting up exactly as before from 0% until 4% before dropping back to 0% again. Each cycle took exactly 45 seconds which amounted to 400 cycles - and that was all that happened! It never got to defragging, only checking for errors on 4% of the disc 400 times!

Gloom! :ugh:

Where do I put the bullet?

Tarq57

4th Aug 2007, 01:31

Depends how determined you are to get it working, I guess. Since you watched it for 5 hours, I'm guessing your fairly determined.

Linked from the Mesich page were some advisories, (MS KB's) re defrag problems. Included was advice to turn all other programs off, eg AV, Antispyware, anything that auto updates, elsewhere a suggestion to clean boot the computer, elsewhere the advice that sometimes this behaviour can be caused by a virus or other malware. You can browse those pages, so I won't bother linking, especially since I'm none too sure, myself.

One thing that might be worth a look: in msconfig (Start>run>msconfig) in the startup section, how many applications are set to start with windows?

Have you tried a scan disk, including "fix any errors found"? Hope you haven't, yet, because it sounds like a real good place to go next.
Are there any tasks in taskmanager that might be trying to run at the same time?

Air Conditioned

4th Aug 2007, 07:18

I bin there, done that. Eventually I got some prompts that taught me how to get Win 98 defrag to work OK.

I now pre-empt the system with two actions:

Run ScanDisk. "Standard" is OK.

I then close every programme except Explorer. That is, select the Close Program window (CTRL-ALT-DELETE) and in turn highlight each item then END TASK. Repeat until only Explorer comes up in the window. Some items in my setup have to be actioned more than once before they close. I can action another END TASK before the previous one is complete, but have to be careful that I have indeed hit END TASK, or else the computer will restart at the second CTRL-ALT-DELETE.

Defrag then runs without hangup. Don't hold your breath, it takes a while.

My screensaver is only wallpaper, and I don't turn it off. Whether you need to deselect an active screensaver, I don't know.

BOAC

4th Aug 2007, 10:47

AC - why not give 'Safe' a go?

Vajra

4th Aug 2007, 15:08

For current versions of Windows, Diskeeper pro is my preferred defragmenting program since it can be set to automatic defrag and does a great job.
However, for Win 98 none of the current Diskeeper versions work, so I'd suggest that you check out the free Diskeeper Lite from a few years ago. It is freeware and can be downloaded from here:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=1207
It ought to defrag Win 98.:)

Cameronian

7th Aug 2007, 09:28

Well, I started scandisk (full-strength and with auto repair) in safe mode, with the real time function of AVG turned off (I thought I'd turned it off completely!) and with the router disconnected. It has been running since 1200 hrs yesterday - nearly 24 hours and has currently reached 672,000 clusters out of a total of 1,250,000 so it looks as if i've got nearly another 24 hours to wait before I can start a defrag in earnest.

I had a look at the diskeeper lite link but am not entirely sure it will do a full defrag and it describes its function as "manual". If this means I have to watch it working and respond at various stages throughout the process then I think it will be too much to ask!! It may simply mean that it will do "one-off" proper defrags but won't work automatically on a permanent basis. That would be fine, especially if it's quicker than the W 98 version. Does anyone know, please? Perhaps I should just bite the bullet and try the official W 98 version but I don't know if my poor 10years old HDD is up to 96 hours of continual operation. "The cure was perfect but the patient died" springs to mind!!

This is a borrowed laptop which I'm using while the torture continues in the room next door.

Tarq57

7th Aug 2007, 10:02

Hi, Cameronian,
from all your descriptions, it's sounding to me like you have a rather old and commensurately underpowered computer running too many modern programs.
What's the RAM and CPU of this beast?
Therein may be the problem. Nothing should take that long. BTW, that program from Mesichdotcom is simply a modification to the standard '98 defrag, to turn it into the ME defrag. A bit like putting a mini cooper camshaft into a Morris Minor.

Cameronian

7th Aug 2007, 11:26

Yes, it's old! Normal operation is fine and subjectively just as fast as this 1 month old Compaq laptop I'm using at this moment (I know it can't really be as fast but there is no problem for what I do).
Which defrag should I use for W 98? I want it to do a good job, not take an age and be easy to run.

Cameronian

8th Aug 2007, 00:35

My goodness it was slow but it really looked as if it was going to work - my scandisk, preparatory to defrag, I mean. It got to 750,000 clusters (whatever they are) out of a total of 1,250,000 and then stopped, but completely. I waited for two more hours but it moved not one bit further.

I didn't want to restart from the beginning (as you might well imagine) but, with the faint hope that it might jump back fairly quickly to where it had got to, I did restart it. It didn't jump back over the stuff which had already been checked so I stopped it again.

I really don't want to spend more than thirty hours repeating the exercise only for it to stop again in the same place so i think I ought to try to tidy things up a little (eliminate .tmp and .chk files?) and go straight to a defrag.

Is it going to take a week? On another thread I see that the standard defrag (which made so little progress before) gets quite a good press if used with the advice which I have received here - i.e. in safe mode with the router disconnected and as much else turned off as possible. Do I go for it or is there really a better, quicker and less problematic product out there?

Tarq57

8th Aug 2007, 01:59

Dang! Not mentioned before in this thread, but have you run a disk clean up at all? Definitely should do that before any scandisk/defrag etc.
Ccleaner is a pretty good one, you have to read a bit about what not to delete, but it offers more options than the built in windows job. But I'd at least run the Windows Clean up utility, first, before downloading or installing anything else.

Cameronian

9th Aug 2007, 04:52

No, it has never been cleaned up! Partly because, being a non-computer person, I don't even know what the term means. Every now and then I get a visit from my daughter who knows a lot more but they are inevitably only short visits and there just isn't time.....

Tarq57

9th Aug 2007, 08:24

Tr clicking on "start">"programs">"accessories" then "tools" (or maybe "system tools"). About the second or third down should be "disk cleanup". Click it. There'll be whirring and grinding from the hard drive, and an application window will eventually open up with a range of options for file deletion, including temporary files, temporary internet files, recycle bin, maybe a few more.
Tick the checkboxes beside each one you're happy to have cleaned. (When you click on each one, a small block of general info will appear in the lower window regarding what's going to be deleted. Make your selections, click ok, wander away for 20min or so...it might take a bit less, or a fair bit more, if there are a lot of files.
Be interesting to see how many Mb can be gained from this, and if scandisk and defrag will work ok afterward.
How long has it been since you did a virus and antispyware scan? And how long did it take? And was anything found?
Mark.

Cameronian

9th Aug 2007, 14:25

AVG is on permanently and does a full check every day. The full check takes about twenty minutes and finds something no more often than once a year. I run Adaware every two or three days and it typically finds between one and three "critical" - but they're not, really - items each time. They're usually cookies which are there because someone else in the family has been running their favourite browser with cookies allowed. I don't allow cookies on my day-to-day browser.

I'm following your advice on the clean-up at the moment on my computer and 'll tell you how I get on. Thank you, once again.

Cameronian

9th Aug 2007, 14:44

Well, markjoy, it is in Spanish so doesn't quite tie in with your labelling of the different options but I have followed through "tools" etc. and have got to "liberador de espacio en disco duro" which is for freeing up space on the hard drive. The first thing it has done after being started up is to run scandisk, but in its simplest form. I'm watching and will intervene or report back long before it gets to thirty-two hours!

frostbite

9th Aug 2007, 16:54

I am getting really concerned that all this intense prolonged activity is going to kill off your HD before you can achieve your aim!

Cameronian

9th Aug 2007, 18:31

You could well be right frostbit! However, thanks to help received here for which I am truly grateful - even though, to most of you who know what you're doing, it must all seem bl**dy obvious!

I followed your advice markjoy, thinking that what you were telling me to do was a sort of clean-up preparatory to running scandisk with auto repair etc which itself was to be in preparation for the W98 defrag utility. Well, within only a very few minutes, on its own initiative it started to run scandisk in its most basic manner and all went well and quickly then it went straight on to defrag and rushed through that so quickly that I wasn't present when it finished! I had been watching it scrolling down through lots of depictions of the files it was moving around so I'm convinced that it was going perfectly.

Now I find that it has decided that it wants to repeat the process automatically each day and won't, apparently, be dissuaded from that intention as there appears to be no box to untick so that I can do it manually( now that I know how to, thank you all!) whenever I think it appropriate. So frostbite's pessimism may well be justified!

There's no remedy for my ignorance, I'm afraid!

frostbite

9th Aug 2007, 19:54

The controlling routine for the daily operation is NOT a part of defrag (I believe).

Sounds as if, somehow, you have invoked a utility in W98 that I can't recall the name of! It is designed to routinely run such stuff and you MAY find it by looking for a likely name in Control Panel.

I will stop digging this hole now and wait for someone who remembers the name of the blasted thing.

BOAC

9th Aug 2007, 20:06

Try http://www.iopus.com/guides/winscheduler.htm

Saab Dastard

10th Aug 2007, 08:02

I'm suprised that it hasn't been asked before, but how full is the hard disk?

If over about 85-90% full, defrag can't run properly, as it hasn't enough free space to move stuff around. This is especially true of highly fragmented disks where the available contiguous free space is virtually nil.

SD

Cameronian

10th Aug 2007, 10:13

HDD is 19 Gb and the free space is 10.9 Gb - that's after the recent exercise.

I followed markjoy's instructions as best I could but there was nothing which was an absolutely exact translation of what he told me to look for, because I have Spanish Windows. Certainly what I ended up with appears to have been more comprehensive than expected, as I tried to explain higher up, and appears to have worked. I have since done some exploring in it's set-up criteria and believe that I have left it with instructions to repeat the exercise once a month with each step being separated by a day or two so that there is a chance for all to be completed in turn should I have the machine turned off at the exact time appointed for each.

Thank you all once again for your attention and advice. I hope to be able to repay by helping someone else with something within my areas of expertise some time in the future.

Tarq57

10th Aug 2007, 11:24

Real glad your persistence appears to have paid off, and glad to have been of help.
Mark.

navyybluu

16th Aug 2007, 12:13

Not having defragged since 1998, I can only imagine that it would be a good idea to do it now!

Wow! thats a long time. I just got my system cleaned up after a lot of effort, been following ur thread. Though not as old as yours, mine was badly cluttered too. Never did anything about it till recently, the thing started hanging on every operation. As someone mentioned here, i didnt think it would affect performance , but i think it does, and badly so. I think i narrowly managed to avoid the drive from dying before i backed up.Going to get a new drive now and planning to prevent this fragmentation disease right from the start.

Cameronian

17th Aug 2007, 00:27

Well my HDD was about 75% occupied before the exercise - say 5Gb free and now I've got 10.9Gb free. Good Job, I'd say. My next little difficulty is that it said it was going to do it every day from now and there appears to be no little box which would give me the option of doing it only manually (because, apart from being unnecessary - very undesirable, even - on a daily basis, it wouldn't even work without being in safe mode, etc.). I have managed to get it down to once a month but will have to do better than that.