ANR Headsets

[JohnV85]

Hi,

I am learning to fly at the moment and am considering purchasing my own headset going forward.

I have been looking at the ANR sets including the DC X11 and the Bose Aviation X, but searching around I find mixed reviews on both which leaves me somewhat unsure. I have read that there are compatibility issues with the Bose when using other headsets, which would obviously not be great when training, but am not sure how common these are or if it relates to older versions.

For the sake of this discussion money is not really an object.

I would be interested to here peoples experience of these two or other competing headsets I should be considering.

Thanks.

John

[IO540]

Bose X is the best. I've had them for 7 years. 6hr flights are a non-issue.

Everything else is just a debate about cost and value for money, IMHO.

[Rod1]

I have a Bose, no compatibility issues and would recommend it very highly.

Rod1

[IFollowRailways]

Bose X.

I have two pairs, one is the older 9v version and the other is the later version that uses 2 x AA batteries. I leave the later version in my aircraft and carry the older set in my car for when I fly other aircraft. I have not had any compatability issues with other headsets.

IMHO the Bose is in a different league to any of the others.

[Mariner9]

I have a set of DC X11's and I'm very happy with them. Seemed as comfortable as BoseX's when trying both on the ground. Not flown with BoseX's however so can't offer a comparison.

[Zulu Alpha]

Bose are simply the best. I sold mine because I fly aerobatics now and they won't stay on.

Almost as good is the clarity aloft, which is is brilliant and half the price
http://www.clarityaloft.com/

It really works well and has the advantage that glasses and caps etc don't affect it. It looks slightly strange to begin with but it is brilliant and the noise reduction is better than the Bose.

I also have a David Clarke ANR. Having been a loyal DC customer for over 20 years and always sworn by them, I must say it is not as good as either of the two above. It is very well made but the ANR just isn't as good and is affected by wearing glasses etc which go under the earpieces.

[Blinkz]

another bose owner here. simply the best headset I've ever used. Highly recommended!

[JohnV85]

Thanks for all the comments.

Do I take it that if I was to go ahead with the Bose I would be after the high impedance version (for general aviation) instead of the low impedance version, which from my reading is mostly for military use?

John

[tangovictor]

thing to do, is try them on, I brought dcX11 having worn them for a short while, others I tried on, I didn't like, all our head shapes are unique

[Droopystop]

Before you go ahead with ANR headsets, check that they will protect you against some of the higher (inaudable) frequencies which can still be harmful. I know of one set that was sold because they provided inadequate protection at the higher frequencies. I don't know whether this is an issue with your aircraft type, but it is something to bear in mind.

[172driver]

Another Bose-X vote here. Only thing that should really be better on a headset at this price level is the cable. I've got the straight cable version but would buy a coiled one if I had to do it again.

[IO540]

Before you go ahead with ANR headsets, check that they will protect you against some of the higher (inaudable) frequencies which can still be harmful

The ear of an adult can hear up to 10kHz-15kHz. This is way above the attenuation range of an ANR headset whose active attenuation ends at around (v. roughly) 1kHz. At 15kHz, the wavelength is so short one cannot achieve active cancellation within such a large device as a headset cup, and one is relying entirely on passive attenuation.

Anyway I think this is an OWT because there is no noise in an aircraft at inaudible frequencies. Where would it come from?

I agree re the Bose cables. Their circular Lemo (aircraft powered version) connectors are really flimsy. However, the coiled v. straight cable can be argued both ways. I went from coiled to straight with mine when recently upgrading the mikes.

The thing is that the Bose is not a "club use" headset which you can kick about, sit on, drop on the floor etc. It's something you let your passenger fly with but you would never lend it to anybody. If you want a headset which you can kick about then get a cheap David Clarke; they are crap in comparison but they won't break which is why schools use them.

[Bravo73]

Anyway I think this is an OWT because there is no noise in an aircraft at inaudible frequencies. Where would it come from?


A turbine. Or maybe two turbines. Sitting right above your head. With a transmission sitting between them.


Remember, IO540, we don't all fly TBwhatevers. Some of us fly different types of aircraft whose engines aren't necessarily in the nose.

[IO540]

Do you have a reference for "inaudible" sound emissions from turbine engines, and which ANR headset might help with them?

[Right Stuff]

Before the handbags get well and truly broken out; Zulu Alpha - what do you wear for aeros?

[Bravo73]

Do you have a reference for "inaudible" sound emissions from turbine engines,

High speeds (50,000rpm+) = high frequency sounds. Stands to reason, non? If you need the empirical evidence, I'm afraid that you're going to have to search through Nick Lappos' posts in Rotorheads. I don't have the time to do it for you, I'm afraid.

Just de-bunking your supposed 'OWT', you see? :p


and which ANR headset might help with them?

No ANR headset will help. Because as you rightly pointed out, ANR headsets don't operate in the damaging range. But that was Droopystop's point - although you might think that ANR headsets are protecting your hearing, they aren't really. They just make it easier to hear things.

To actually protect your hearing, you still need some sort of passive attenuation. Either a helmet or earplugs will do (or, ideally, both.)

[DB6]

'Full spectrum noise reduction' it says in the blurb. Well yes, but when you look at the attenuation graphs you see that high frequency attenuation is bugger all, whereas at lower frequencies it is appreciable. You need a decent amount of passive attenuation to go with the active which is where the Bose falls down. TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. Best so far is the Sennheiser HMEC 450, and I have owned Bose X (good, flashy, but poor high frequency attenuation), and DC X11 (pish, basically).

[dublinpilot]

Well if the high frequency noise is only a problem in turbines, then the only question is, is JohnV85 learning to fly in a turbine equipped aircraft :rolleyes: or does he plan to progress to jet aircraft after getting his PPL (in which he intends to continue using his new headset)?:hmm:

[Bravo73]

Well if the high frequency noise is only a problem in turbines

Who said it was only a problem in turbine aircraft? IO540 asked for a potential scenario and I gave him one.

The point was that ANR headsets don't protect against the damaging frequencies. I'm sure that you will still find some of these damaging frequencies in piston aircraft. Just not so many...

[dublinpilot]

The point was that ANR headsets don't protect against the damaging frequencies.

Well, if you want to nit pick, I can point out that most ANR headsets have lots of passive noise reduction too. (The Bose being an exception.)

[172driver]

The Bose being an exception

That is correct. While they are great, their passive noise attenuation is pretty poor.

[Bravo73]

Well, if you want to call an attention to detail, nit picking... ;)

But you are absolutely right - when I said 'ANR headsets', I was thinking just about the Bose. I'm happy to be corrected. :ok:

[IO540]

The problem with passive attenuation is that nobody has yet done it well without a lot of earcup pressure.

Many people find this does their head in, after an hour or more.

Now, aviation is full of hardened hacks who are happy to fly with a leather helmet and goggles in an open cockpit, while working out the next compass heading and stopwatch time with the slide rule, and occassionally popping down to check the road signs. So, many people on pilot forums don't have a problem with having their head clamped in a vice, and that is fair enough, so long as you appreciate that if you take a girl (or indeed any "normal" person) up in the plane a crappy headset isn't to make a good impression... :)

As well as doing her head in, and if it is bad enough - and many headsets in common GA club usage really are very bad - communication is going to be not very good.

Every time I fly I hear people on the radio whose communication is clearly marginal, and I am not talking about phraseology.

Bose deliver very good performance, and the downside is that if the battery goes flat the end result is a bit worse than a £300 D/Clarke, but probably no worse than the usual crappy headset. The other 99% of the time, or 100% if you carry a spare battery, you enjoy the superior performance and comfort.

I flew for 2 years with the battery powered version and never had a battery go flat. And the current model lasts several times longer than the old one did.

I am not for a moment suggesting the Bose is good value for money. I think it's a ripoff, and they are cashing in on being the best. What amazes me (as an electronics engineer with a lot of audio circuit design background) is that nobody has yet matched it or improved on it. It can't be that hard to do. I guess that it is not in anybody's interest to bomb the aviation headset market.

[gcolyer]

Did any of you actualy look at the clarity aloft headset?

http://www.clarityaloft.com/

This should help with passive attenuation with out squeezing your eyeballs out of your head with tight ear cups.

I am considering getting a set to try. So if anyone has tried them what is your verdict?

If anyone wants a set let me know because I will be in the states at the end of August and woul dbe happy to bring some back to save on the shipping.

[IO540]

I tried the other similar sort of thing: the Lightspeed Mach 1.

It worked very well but the slightest tug on the cable would pull out the earplug(s) enough to let all the noise in. I gather from some pilots in the USA that you really do need to spend the extra £50-100 on custom moulded earplugs for it.

The mike on it was far out the best I have used on any headset.

Due to it being in short supply when I bought it, I managed to offload it on Ebay to a pilot in the USA, for a reasonable price.

My guess is that these headsets are excellent for passengers. Especially a regular female passenger ;) There is the obvious hygiene issue with the earplugs which are not really shareable.

[Droopystop]

Apparently the best form of hearing protection available is a good passive headset used in combination with tailored ear plugs. These ear plugs contain a filter that allows the voice frequencies to be attenuated less than other frequencies. They are the only device that guarentees a level of noise attenuation. On paper the clarity aloft types seem to be equivalent. The idea of not having to wear a headset in hot weather is very attractive.

Whilst the Bose seems to operate within a wide frequency range, it seems that it offers no protection for frequencies out with that band whether the battery is flat or not. I have no idea what frequency range one is exposed to in a GA cockpit, but I would be surprised if all the noise in a GA cockpit lies within the Bose frequency band.

Flying schools as employers by law must ensure that their instructors have adequate hearing protection. It would be interesting if someone has done the research into this and actually determined the adequacy of popular headsets.

[IO540]

it seems that it offers no protection for frequencies out with that band whether the battery is flat or not

No, that really isn't the case. No protection? The Bose uses a light pressure earcup which as a result provides less attenuation than a typical mid-priced (say, £300) passive headset. But it is still a normal headset. Have you ever worn one?

A good number of people (passengers) have worn them without realising there is an on-off switch. Occassional poor passenger briefing is to blame for that, and I have been guilty of it once or twice too. Yet they didn't realise there was anything untoward.

Most of the noise in a piston plane is low frequency, and I would guess there are components up to a few kHz. I have a spectrum analyser so could have a quick look. Most of the noise near the top of that would be wind noise. However a lot of wind noise has a low frequency component coming from the prop blade turbulence. The Bose takes that all out well, and even crappy passive attenuation is good at removing high frequency noise. HF noise is really easy to suppress, using simple mechanical means. With voice reproduction needing only up to about 2-3kHz (in this context; the telephone network only goes up to that anyway) one doesn't need to use ANR for HF attenuation; any old piece of foam around the ear does that nicely.

You people need to visit a headset shop that has an aircraft noise source. I believe Headset Services at Shoreham do that. They certainly used to c. 2000/1; I went through most of their headset range in an hour and two headsets stood out clearly: the Bose X (£800 then) and a £500 D/Clarke 10-13X or something like that. The D/C was a bit better on overall attenuation but had a much higher earcup pressure. All the others were poor in comparison.

There have been some newcomers since then, which I can't speak for.

[eddiec]

I was training in the US in April and I bought the David Clark H10 13X. I find it great, fits well, nice and comfortable and the ANR device works really well. All said though, its the first headset ive bought so nothing to compare it to but no complaints so far. I just went on the basis of buying the best I could afford. Cost $610 I think.

[Wrong Stuff]

At one point I used to have a set of DC 10-13X ANRs, a pair of Bose and a pair of DC X11s, so I've been able to compare all three reasonably extensively.

By far the worst of all were the X11s. Fortunately I bought them from a retailer who kindly offered me a full refund when he heard I was selling them second-hand shortly after buying them. Although they were reasonably sturdy and as comfortable as the Bose, the attenuation was terrible. Aviation Consumer recently did a test of ANR headsets and the X11s scored very poorly.

I now keep a pair of the DC 10-13Xs and a pair of the Bose permanently in the aircraft. As IO540 said, the attenuation on the DCs is a little better, but the clamping force is much higher than the Bose. The ANR on the Bose is very good at removing the low frequencies, but the passive attenuation on the DCs is better at removing the high frequencies as well. Because the high frequencies are important in making out human speech, I find I can understand ATC more easily and hence keep the radio volume lower when I'm using the DCs. For that reason they're generally my preferred set. Having said that, if I'm flying more than three hours or so, I'll use the Bose instead as they are far more comfortable for that length of time.

Incidentally, one other noticable difference is that if I'm playing music through the intercom, the sound through the Bose is much, much better than the DCs. Listening to music through the DCs reminds me of the old Dial-a-Disc days.

On the Lightspeed / Clarity Aloft question, Robert Goyer recently wrote up a long-term comparison of the two in Flyer magazine. (http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=17&article_id=806) He tried out the custom ear moulds, but didn't find they worked very well. Of the two, he preferred the Clarity Aloft set.

[gcolyer]

One set of Clarity Aloft's ordered. you cant have them shipped to the UK though!!! so I will pick them up from my friends at the end of Aug when I go to the US.

I will let you all know what they are like compared to DC 10-13x

[On the Spot]

there is a new model sennheiser ANR headset out that look to be much improved mechanically over the old ones and similar to the Bose with a much reduced price at <£400 in the UK. I am considering replacing my DC passive set with one of these.

But I do agree with earlier comments that you need to try out the active aspect before deciding. I found a considerable difference over a range of domestic type sets when I was looking for one to use when travelling freight.

I have tried the Bose and found them good but baulked at the £600 (recently reduced too) price tag and even $1000 in the US. But I expect the prices wil drop further if the Sennheiser proves to offer the same level of active
performance

[IO540]

Another factor is how good the mike is.

The mike has to deliver good speech reproduction (many quite obviously don't) but also has to have good noise cancelling behaviour.

All aviation headsets have NC mikes but some are better than others. Any un-cancelled noise at the mike will be heard in the headset - not what you are paying for!!

Recently, I upgraded a couple of my 4 Bose ~ 1999-2002 headsets to the current mike (which incidentally has about 2.5x higher output, measured on a linear millivolt scale) and on the next flight was concerned that the engine wasn't making full power. The indications (fuel flow, IAS, etc) were spot on, and eventually I realised it was wholly due to the new mikes having much better noice cancellation. Yet, the old headsets were still miles better than anything else out there.

Further evidence for how good the Bose is now comes from making the occassional movie, when a miniature mike is tucked inside the earcup. (For best results, the camcorder needs to have a manual audio recording level control). Now, the recordings are almost silent, except for the intended speech.

Bose had a big "incident" a few years back when they shipped out a huge number of duff mikes. They fixed the headsets under a specially extended warranty but (gosh what a suprise) this was severely under-publicised in Europe and also they washed their hands of it a lot faster over here. Even with the duff mikes the headsets were better than the other brands, but it does show up with some intercoms. I am puzzled about the full extent of this mike business because I recently had all four of my headsets tested by a Bose dealer and all four were the same, 2.5x too low on mike output, and they were made over a 2-3 year period..... It's possible this was a well covered up manufacturing error which actually went on for a long time. I would not buy a used Bose unless it has the new mike, otherwise it's another £130+VAT.

Bose are way overpriced for the content of the product but I suppose if one takes a long term view of one's flying life.... I would not recommend a 1 hour PPL student getting one.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Aviation Consumer recently did a review of all ANRs and confirmed what we already knew.

Bose-X headsets are the way forward.

AV Consumer uses lab tests and a panel of folks to do real live comparisons. They also get feedback from sellers. They commented that a lot of people send their DC11s back.

Draw your own conclusion.

You can pick up Bose-X headsets a lot less expensive now than a few years back (£550sh)