22nd Jul 2007, 18:10
after the necessary search in the threads i didn't manage to find athread about the USA.
We, i mean in Europe, have the ATPL what's the USA counterpart?
Since doing my training in USA seems to be a valid option i would like some infos about FTO's.Organisations that are caracterised for their quality,which are consedired the "best" ones.
It is not an attempt to advertise or to start a flame war.Just need help and your informations-opinions would give me a direction.
By the way i am interested in FTO's that have programs from 0 experience.
22nd Jul 2007, 21:57
US equivalent of the ATPL is the "ATP"
Several good FTO's; Embry Riddle is one that stands out, they have campus's in Arizona and Florida. Flight Safety Academy is another good one. Both are relatively expensive when compared to many other US operators.
23rd Jul 2007, 00:49
Dear kwstas -
As to the proper designation of ATPL in the USA, remember that the FAA actually issues "pilot certificates" rather than licenses (or licences) as spelled in the British-English part of the world. When I started flying, the ATP was even known as "ATR" airline transport rating rather than "ATP" - Now most of the US pilots, having been exposed to ICAO designations, now mention "FAA/ATPL" to conform to the rest of the world.
Other practices with the US/FAA, that were different, was that until the mid-1970s, only a total time of 1,200 hrs was required to hold the ATP, rather than the 1,500 hrs now required. The US/FAA do not have a "frozen ATPL" equivalent. To take the written ATP exam, you must be 23 years old, and have a total of 1,500 hours. Until the mid-1970s as well, many if not most F/Os only had a CPL/IR, the multiengine rating was not even required. The ATP was essentially the certificate only required for captains of FAR 121 air carriers. Back then, the "regionals" were operated under FAR 135, and only required a CPL for captains. I think the passenger seat limit for the regionals was 19 passengers...
Another notable difference with the FAA certificates is the "type ratings". To be F/O on a type aircraft (P2), the FAA does not require a "type rating" nor any is listed on the FAA pilot certificate. Only captains are required to hold a "type rating" (P1) on their certificate.
So as you see, basically, while the finished product of "pilot training" when flying the line is essentially similar between ICAO, JAR and FAA, the licencing requirements and prerequisites are somewhat different.
Another question you have, is regarding the well established and reputable pilot schools in USA. The ones you mentioned have good reputation. Embry-Riddle has long been established as a training facility, tied with universities education and degrees. Flight Safety International has long been known as a training facility for "corporate" type airplanes, such as Citation, Learjet or Gulfstreams, they now also compete for the "regional pilots" training market. I would like to mention two others, which have reputable "ab-initio" programs, are Sierra Academy of Aeronautics, in Oakland, Calif. and American Flyers, in Ardmore, Okla. These last two are not specializing in "regional jet" pilot training, rather, they do "ab-initio" primarily, from PPL to ATP, including CFI programs.
Hope this lifts the "fog" on your understanding of what is "FAA training, or licencing"...
23rd Jul 2007, 14:01
Thank you for your posts!!!!
Correct me if i ma wrong but Embry-Riddle is a college/university with studies up to 4 years.I am interested in a programme such as those offered by Oxford,flight training in Jerez or EPST. Which after the proper initial training of 13-16 months i will arrive to ATPL (Frozen)/ATP
23rd Jul 2007, 14:42
I think the sort of thing you are talking about is what is called a Part 141 course the United States. This is the closest equivalent of the integrated courses that exist in Europe but, as has been said previously, there is no frozen ATPL in the US. You complete the ATP after you have 1500 hours and the course includes a written test and a flight test. This is usually done under Part 61 which basically means the course is unregulated by the FAA. Bear in mind that Part 141 courses are still modular in that you do them separately (the Commercial must be done at the same time or after the Instrument) but they are inspected by the FAA and there are some concessions on minimum hours. Also, there a few schools that have examining authority which means that they can declare you competent without the need for a test from a designated examiner.
Do you intend to fly in Europe or do you have the right to work in the US? If it is the former you will need to think about conversion and also, whilst you are doing this, the need to keep your licence valid and have medical exams done to FAA rules (every 6 months for ATP). Note also that there is NO way of converting an FAA ATP to a JAA ATPL without airline experience, you have to sit the ATPL exams and convert it to a CPL/IR (in effect, a frozen ATPL).
If you need to ask anything else, please PM me.
23rd Jul 2007, 20:33
Yes remember to include costs for license coversions into your budget. I'm currently tranining in Canada, yet still need to do the 14 JAA exams plus CPL/IR conversion when i get back to the UK. Easily about 10grand on top of your US training!
25th Jul 2007, 07:00
yes i do have in mind the cost of converting the license to JAA standards. So since i am mixed up and in the US embassy they don't have a clue. There are part 141 and part 61 licences?The part 141 is the ATP which is obtained after exams and 1500hrs and the part 61 in what consists?
may i ask yoy where yoy are training?
25th Jul 2007, 10:09
Part 141 and Part 61 courses both result in the same licences. The difference is that the FAA inspect the Part 141 courses and the schools have to be approved. They allow some minimum hour reductions because of this. The other difference is that Part 141 schools can sometimes get you what's called a J-1 visa which allows you to work as an instructor for a while after you have obtained your licences in order to build experience towards the ATP. Obviously you need to complete the Certificated Flight Instructor course to do this. Parts 141 and 61 are sections of the Federal Aviation Regulations. You can read what they say here:
Hope this helps.
25th Jul 2007, 22:42
To reply to your question i'm training in BC, at Boundary Bay Airport...very popular place for training for people from all over the world.Just got the PPL done today.
31st Jul 2007, 07:51
since i am not willing to "spend" 4 years i am looking for other options. Such as ?????:)
1st Aug 2007, 00:32
Have you thought about training in Australia. I'm an aussie doing a PPL for private fun (way too old to FO dreams). I know all the good schools especially in Melbourne. There is even a school here that trains and issues a JAA license. Saves on converstion costs when you get home. The shcool even has contacts with the European airlines.