hello MAS

[b737400]

hai guys...its been long time since i posted.
mapa president is doing a wonderful job....congrats capt h.
its about time that mapa considered a fix allowance for the exco....say president 10k,asst,vice,sec get 7k,... exco 5k.works out only about rm 50 ringgit per member.they are dedicating whole life for free,family life, personal committment and personal needs is being sacrificed for the asso.about time the members give back something to this selfless,dedicated people.this works out about rm 50 ringgit only per member.please vote rm 60 increase instead of rm10.heard of the kpi and esos.it totally unacceptable.
noooooo....dont protest or go against the OSA....but leave the place.
TRANSMILE/AIRASIA/KOREA/VIETNAM/SINGAPORE/INDIA/MIDDLE E/EUROPE
is looking for you guys. our earlier mentors have made good name for us....
if you guys r happy with the 0.5 month complimentary money...GOD BLESS THIS MAS PILOTS.
guys .
i have left...having a comfortable life now...many of our guys are...please guys...think and think hard.......ur skills are good,thanks for our extreme training.WHEN A CONSULTANT IS GETTING MORE THAN A JUMBO CAPT. ITSSSSSSSSSSSSS TIME TO GO......

[Che Xindamail]

Something about not drinking and posting comes to mind...

[ikan_terbang]

I left them a couple of years ago and havent looked backed since.
Only the brave and elite will leave.
For the 3rd rate please stay back, you will get ESOS and good KPI for being just ordinary.

[b737400]

che xindamail,
cant understand ur post...can you further explain.
for the rest mas.....many ex around the world ...nil complain.IJ just made a big mess...so was the last guy munir.among all TR was still okay.he had honour among thiefs.if u guys dont react,nothing will change in this co.
and che xin...if u cant post something nice than please dont waste ur internet money.

[Sireh]

Ikan, with due respect to you "braveness" to venture out there are many excellent MAS pilots ( who are certainly NOT THIRD RATE ) who choose to remain for very good reasons of their own...like family commitments and filiel peity which you may find hard to understand. I jumped ship a long time ago but I respect my former colleagues who chose to remain for various reasons. I wished more of the senoir ones would leave which will certainly send a clear message to the management, but alas it was not to be. It is hoped that with the current recruitment drive in the Asian region will spur more to venture forth.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Dear b737400,

What Che Xindamail meant by not drinking and posting is that perhaps you were drunk when you sat at your computer and composed your post. " I must say I do agree with him "

Firstly let me address the MAPA (malay airline pilots association) issue. MAPA is the most useless con-job of any pilots association I have ever come across in the world. They have a MoU with MAS, well an MoU is not legally binding and cannot be upheld in a court of law. At least the ground staff have a collective agreement (legally binding) and are unionised. Thats a darn sight better and smarter than the so called smart pilots in MAS and their crappy association (non unionised). The management take great care to negotiate with the ground staff for reasons explained above but could not give a damn what is written into the MoU for reasons explained above. In fact the MoU is just a gentleman's agreement based on a handshake and written on toilet paper. What a load of CRAP. and now this pay rubbish is just another con-job to give the useless MAPA EXCO buggers money for not doing F%*k all. You guys are more stupid than I thought even considering it rather that voting on it. Have you ever seen the EXCO suck holes behind closed doors. They are like mice, quivering and shaking. They never stand up to the management and JUMP AT ANY OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE THEMSELVES. But when they are amongst you they talk the big talk and tell you about the great fight they had on your behalf behind those closed doors. And guess what, you stupid fellows believe them.

Regarding TR. How can you even think he was sane. Look at the bloody damage that fool created and you even consider him as "still ok" Perhaps you have not been drinking but are on happy drugs. What an insane statement. "You must be on the EXCO to have the brains to make that kind statement" Perhaps you are the quality of people representing the pilots of MAS.

MAS has just come out of years of substantial debt. In fact the taxpayers will be paying for the mismanagement monetary costs for decades because the losses of billions were merely set aside in the asset unbundling and set up of PNB as the lessor, in reality the actual losses were absorbed into future governmental budgets.

So now after the company is struggling out of the red into the black and after the pilots have had a pay rise you want more money. Well what about the ground staff. Their pay is total crap the poor baggage loader or the check in staff. WHAT ABOUT THEM !!! Do you give a flying fart about the others in MAS besides the primadona pilots. If you had a team concept you would take a pay cut to enable the other members of your team mainly the ground staff to have a reasonable pay.

The Bottom line is that you pilots are a greedy lot and have zero negotiation skills or timing. You are willing to kill the goose thats laying the golden eggs just to get one egg quickly. You have absolutely zero foresight and purely live in the moment. Go on, waste fuel, report sick and leave for other airlines and watch MAS open its doors to expats with terms and conditions you wish you had because that is what is going to happen. The lazy, self centred, greedy bumi attitude you have will be your downfall.

[ikan_terbang]

Sireh I agree with you. There are many 1st rate pilots who "choose" to remain and can be counted in the digits if the hand . Well and good and the pool of the remaining pilots are just 3rd rate and getting bigger.
The ORDINARY pilot gets the ESOS. I heard that is why the ESOS list is not published. Too ordinary to compare and get benchmark.

[ikan_terbang]

Sireh I agree with you. There are many 1st rate pilots who "choose" to remain and can be counted in the digits of both hands . Well and good and the pool of the remaining pilots are just 3rd rate and getting bigger.

The just ORDINARY pilots gets the ESOS. I heard that is why the ESOS list is not published. Too ordinary to compare and get benchmark.
Need to be EXTRA-ORDINARY, to stand above the crowd, then receive ESOS with the applauds of the pilot community. Sadly lacking

[b737400]

dear capt wooblah,fully agree with you.however as u know..pilots cant form a union,as such asso will have do to for know.
what happen behind close doors,i wouldnt know but i do know that the exco works extremely hard...especially the current team.
working condition in mas will never change from day one and so will the management.
my sincere wish for the rest of the pilots in mas is not to fight the system especially the kpi and esos but instead look for a greener zone somewhere else.
i am very annoyed that new consultants gets esos and salary from rm40k to rm 80k but not our pilots.as u know almost all of pilots have been with mas at least 15 yrs and above....
happy flying.

[squak7700]

I think what is happening in MAPA is exactly like FOOTBALL in Malaysia.It gets worse trying to improve it.

[ssangyongs]

it's amazing the way they decide to pay ESOS but decided to twitch their ear when i asked about my due salary for flying the twin otters more than a year ago..and it's just a month salary...no big deal....

[ikan_terbang]

ssangyongs....ever thought of leaving. Go on think about it.
Its fun out here. Great people and good atmosphere in Middle East. Good food.

[ssangyongs]

well i think i'm too young and inexperienced for middle east job..maybe in years time...as for my salary i've been writing to his and her in HR department, calls after calls, but they ask me to wait...maybe something to do with ESOS. i can wait..but there's always a limit..

[b737400]

well ss,cant remember munir's activity except the paintings and the office reno.i do remember the gm hr..mr.yusoff.a white haired gentlement.is he still around and where is the toad now..opps sorry datuk toad.
we can go around till kingdom comes ( sampai kucing bertanduk) about mas management ( or rather mis-management).unfortunetely we cant do anything about it....well as everyone says mapa is powerless,only a asso not a union.
its about time pilots as individuals make the change.......its greener in some places( sometimes its HOTTTTTTT).
clown and cronies will still run the place even in flt ops.....how many IP's and AE's that you know tat doesnt deserve the post.i know a few..but its not their fault..it cronism.
guys...you are the front liners...without you guys there is no t/o.u guys dont deserve this ****s .dont just stand and watch....resign.
even airasia looks better now........at least they got excellent pr management.
ps: how about having a forum/blog/website for all mas/ex-mas/malaysian pilots.

[malaysiacadet]

sorry, a little off topic about the FUTURE Generation of MAS's pilot ____________________________________________________________ ____
i don't know about the old generations of MAS pilots. I'm sure there are good ones and bad ones. But for the coming generation,
ok, i've been schooling with them, 60-70% of them, couldn't read METAR, TAF, Synoptics charts, and still PASS CA6 with marvelous marks... how come? they cannot differenciate POLAR MARITIME and Tropical MARITIME but still pass MET THEORY
Some of them couldn't even plot POSITION LINE on Navigation chart, but still pass navigation, how come?
some of them, couldn't do flight planning,Interpolate? >? Performance CHART CAP 385, use of this graph? that graph? yet, all pass...
MAS are training these new breeds of pilots while letting the old and experienced ones leave.

[squak7700]

MC thanks for the info.
This is how Jala going to flood the market with cadet pilots and SO so that MAS will not have a shortage of pilots.There are 300 cadets in the various flying schools and how do you let them pass the CPL ground school?How do you maintain standards?Maybe jala thinks that it's like employing a bus driver,teach a monkey with time monkeywill learn.
The 737 is flooded with SOs doing line training.The IPs there are overworked,and i think they are not maintaining the standards looking at what new FOs or how they are performing.
Good indicator here.They recently scrapped the english test cos many were performing below the score line.What did they blame on?They blame the equipment that was used for the test.Now shouldn't you blame the candidate's english?Most of the new FO english is hardly passable,listen to their PA when you fly in one.When you brief them you better use Malay or else they ll never fully understand you(doesn't matter if FO is malay or non malay-english equally bad).
So guess what MC says if correct will filter down to operations in MAS.
And thank god i'm no longer there

[ssangyongs]

a little bit off topic, how does MAS Kargo recruit their flight crew? apart from greener pastures abroad does anybody know why JJ ong left? he kept the cargo ops profitable when mas was bleeding (bocor) millions of mullah..does their operation is separated from the mainline mas?

gremlins at work again? my replied has been shortened but nevermind...

[PendekarTunggal]

Ikan,
good for you but if the once mighty greenback plunges further you may have to do much rethinking. There certainly many honorable and proficient MAS pilots who remain loyal and happy to keep flying with the national flag carrier with no great grand plans to chase the almighty$.

[WiraMelayu]

Pendekar, agree with you 100%. As for b737400 don't get your hopes too high. Do know the current mob in Mapa; just biding time to spring a coup ala toady. Years of association and flying with these guys allow me to form this opinion and I am sure many in the know agree with me. Having said that, your suggestion that the EXCO's expenses should be covered and an allowance be made for those days spent on association business is a good one albeit mooted a long time ago already. The quetion is how to manage it. We all know the time when the bhai guru and cohoots pocketted funds meant for the annual dinner etc; day light robbery but nobody took charge to order a scrutiny and so dedicated Mapa members came away fools.

[bakutteh]

Hello bungacengkeh,
Tanah melayu no longer exists...it's ala kaput. Only Malaysia hidup, and Malaysia would have reached great heights if not for bigots with sentiments like you bringing us all down to the pits. The same story with MAS; are you guys all blind, deaf and heart/brain dead? The malaise that Malaysia has come to be is all out there for all to see notwithsatanding the short memories of most of our fellow citizens.:ugh:

[Sireh]

Well said Jaguh; after 37 years of NEP and seeing how our own Bumis run the country and all its institutions to the ground, it's time we Melayus embrace our non-Bumi brothers and sisters back to the mainstream so that they can contribute effectively and permanently to the wellbeing of our beloved nation.:{:D:)

[babyboeing400]

bungacengkeh,if only meritocracy prevails over affirmative action and we are all Malaysians instead of categorizing each and everyone of us based on our skin colour,this country will be way better off,look at the tiny island down south and see what they have archieved with their way of doing things..:D

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

The replies here have been truthful and of an outstanding nature. This is the mindset and culture that will make Malaysia a great nation with a sense of pride and most importantly nationhood. To hear the words I am a Malaysian rather than I am a Chinese, Indian etc from Malaysia.

For my part I know I am direct and to the point and as I have said before I just call it the way it is.

For those at MAS, all is not lost. You need to work within the new system which in my opinion is better than no reward system. Define the KPI indices as related to FLT OPS as a division on a whole and be paid as a group when you achieve the PI and define individual KPI indices by fleet and down to the individual. If you guys think performance based ideas the CEO will buy it as a win win situation. What you need is the sales team that can talk the talk and walk the walk, have the brains and intellect to negotiate and close the deal. I really believe there has not been a better time to fix a performance based monetary reward system for the pilots in stone than now.

Wooblah.

[bakutteh]

Wooby, great but don't get your hopes up too high. Nice sentiments but we need action. The above posts are from enlightened Bumis who have shaken off the eons of indoctrination, brainwash and utter tosh imprinted in them. Bless them for their awakening but they are but the few shiny grains in big sandpit. Anyway it is my sincere hope that this awakening bloom to full glory. Best wishes to all.

[Paishinel]

I understand Wooby's optimism but I also share bakutteh's misgivings. The rot that had set in Malaysian society pervades through all sectors. Look at the pit that Malaysian soccer and hockey had sunked into. Badminton sank but enjoy a rollercoaster revival but a non too hopeful future remains. The corporate sector would have tanked if not for the EPF and Petrodollars pumped in.
The non Bumis have given up as they know that their hard work and expertise that put Malaysian sports on the world map had gone to nought as the Bumi politicians, royalty and upstarts took over the management of the sports body and run them to the ground with their pettiness and penchant for self aggrandisement. So sports like soccer, hockey ( field hockey ), athletics, badminton which are the premier sports which garner huge sponsorships and support were made into political vote gettters and pocket money generators. So the non Bumis gave up and headed for the less glamorous sports which the Bumis deem to be " chepek ' and not cool. So we have squash, karate, wushu etc where again the non Bumis brought great honour ( like Nicol David ) to the nation and placing Malaysia on the world map. However it remains to be seen how long this will be allowed to last.
The saddest thing about his NEP and Bumi preferrence thing is that how much the damage done to both Bumi and non Bumis alike. The Bumis consigned themselves to a self destructive make believe world of grandness, and the poor non Bumi kids contaminated by the atrocious education and social value system grew up mentally and psychologically damaged. Just see the prevalence of crime and misdemeanour amongst non Bumi kids nowadays make me cringe with hopelessness. Watch how the young non Bumi badminton players 5 to 10 years ago and see their pathetic attempts at heroics; they were 100% like Bumi kids! Their role models were the scums of Malaysian society, con men datuks, conmen businessmen and filthy politicians, yikes!
The more sensible non Bumis decided that enough is enough and not wanting this contamination of their families to continue anymore, a lot of good people emigrated. Even some enlightened Bumis jumped ship.
So Wooby, you will appreciate our misgivings.

[ikan_terbang]

We have (2) champions in our times.
1. MAWI the jagoh kampong felda
2. NICOL DAVID world champion

Mawi is the local champ, and adored for his just average singing by the masses.
Nicol David is a world squash champion and the masses don't even know the her.

Life is like that in MALAYSIA BOLEH LAND

[ssangyongs]

showbiz is different from sporting culture. What more, squash. Well i'm not a fan of Mawi but it's like that everywhere.

[ikan_terbang]

Been on the RPK website and read the amount of **** being hurled at MAS due to its incompetencies, roti jala included. The profit shown, to my understanding, was by the sale of assets ( http://www.malaysia-today.net/blog2006/index.php?query=mas&amount=0&blogid=1).
So what did the 10% do to get the ESOS...
What is more striking is long service pilots got nothing and a 2 year Bernard Francis got plenty. Just exactly what did he do is my question.

[ikan_terbang]

ssangyongs
agreed showbiz and squash is different....
What are Malaysians proud of ? A world champion or local Mawi who cant sing for nuts but hyped by the media.

The culture of the country (mas included) reflects this anomaly.

[Paishinel]

Well, in MAS the non Bumis are given some table scraps and occasionally given some big sounding posts with little influence or authority; a sort of tokenism to reflect the hip sounding " Malaysia Truly Asia ". More often or not these pitiful non Bumis in MAS become lap dogs consigned to doing the dirty work of screwing their own professionals in the management's quest to put pilots in their place. The highly principled and sensible non Bumis will never accept a management post when they know the management will use them to screw others. That leaves the scums who will lick ass and boots to get some position so that they can boast to all that they are the top class, not knowing their very craving for such positions belie their low life nature. The smart non Bumi knows that whatever great work they do will amount to nothing; wasted efforts which will probably be used by the actual powers to be who either ignore the good work or twist and turn claiming that it is their own work! Worser still, in the whole time one become sucked into a highly nefarious scheme undermining or screwing their own bethren.
The malaise that pervades the whole architecture of Malaysian society is mirrored at a micro level in MAS. Saving face, grandiose schemes to score points, ego boosting stuff etc which all amount to great waste besides undermining and drowning the morale of dedicated aviators.:ugh:

[Ali Sadikin]

Hello all,

During my years in MAS I have always wondered whether the flight ops management know what they were doing. Many highly competent and and proficient pilots were bypassed by their juniors at the whims and fancies of the top brass for their own expediency. Some of the said juniors were known ass lickers and sucked up to their patrons, weaseling their ways to get promoted to the premier B744 fleet at the expense of those who help launch the great revenue generating B777 with their ETOPS expertise gained during their tenure on the A330. Some of these ass lickers are now helming MAPA! These miscreants with their slick and sly ways conned the flight ops management with their computer generated forecast of savings and cost effectiveness of their bypass plans, and the dim wits at the helm of flight ops swallowed the whole dubious scheme line, hook and sinker. So the optimists, I guess you need to water down your expectations a wee bit lest the coming doom and gloom will surely leave you doing this:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Mat Tongkang]

Ali, selamat pagi Pak. Not forgetting the bizzare decision to promote guys with accident records over more proficient and competent seniors!! If you were around during the mid 90's when one guy ( they called him lew wing tip, I think ) who smashed his A330 wing tip into the aerobridge in SIN and another chap who similarly swung another A330 wing tip into an SQ plane in Male. Both were given a slap on the wrist and a year later THEY WERE PROMOTED TO THE B744 over their seniors who were left languishing on the B777. What charity!! No wonder many of the seniors packed and left, and what have we, the wing tip smashers remain in MAS as shining example of competency and proficiency by the very fact they were deemed " BETTER' than the seniors, thus earning their promotion ahead of the flabergasted seniors. These people go around boasting to all and sundry that they were the best and that's why they were promoted ahead of their seniors. Ha, is there still hope in MAS?:*

[lesenterbang]

THEY WERE PROMOTED TO THE B744 over their seniors who were left languishing on the B777.

Interesting observation. But....

1. There is the bidding system.
2. Now no increase in salary for WB to WB promotion.
3. B744 are slowly being phased out (except the F version)
4. Lots more GOM on the B744 fleet than any other fleet.


So, LANGUISHING???? Probably by choice.

[ikan_terbang]

Mat Tongkang ..to add to your list
Wasn't the FO IDI(ot) with Liew Wing TiP also promoted as a MANAGEMENT PILOT of some sort. Wasn't Saf Avian an IP after scraping the tail of the B747 in London. Wasn't he also invloved in a DC-10 taxi excursion into grass way back in the 70's. Wasn't his FO Nikki Boy also an AE or IP on the B737 and later got demoted to FO for violent behaviour.
MAS Flt OPS promotes :ugh: .....what else can I deduce! :D:D:D

[Langkasuka]

Lesenterbang, I believe Mat refered to the 1996-2000 period, not the present. During that period there is a substantial type pay difference between the B777 and B744, so I can understand the grievance of those who were bypassed. I was made to understand the scums who were promoted sucked up to Jun and fixed up the promotion schedule with the dumb che pek Man who had no clue how to manage fleet progression. Same malaise.

[bungacengkeh]

The bypass of the seniors was a company decision to avoid excessive costs I think though I had no part in the decision. Nasiblah, hard luck. You win some, you lose some.The non Bumis must learn to give back to the nation for stability and harmony lah.

[Mat Tongkang]

Langka & lesen, I was indeed referring to the 1996 to 2000 period when the abovementioned incidents occurred much to our embarassment as both incidents had the kiasus sneering and rolling their eyes. After these two "ace" pilots were promoted bypassing their seniors, most of the seniors upped and left for kimchi land. MAS lost a number of good men. Sigh.:confused:

[Kentot Besar]

As alluded by malaysiancadet and ikan terbang, it looks like the dross that we now get together with the dregs that remaim makes for some interesting times in the near future. The multiple choice type of questions in the Malaysian CPL and ATPL exams makes it very easy for people with superficial grasp of aviation subjects to pass or even score high. Going through the databank of questions and through rote learning of past questions makes passing a breeze. You wonder how many Malaysian skippers would still be F/Os had the CAA and DCA not switch to the present format. After the switch in the late 80's we suddenly have so may people pass; it sure was a Malaysia boleh miracle!

[Sireh]

Ha, malaysiacadet, haven't you heard of " patok "? With the multiple choice format, a patok makes life so easy. So passing is no sweat, passing with high marks is fairly easy. There is a big disconnect between " mugging " aviation questionaires to pass the exam and making sense of it all to sucessfully apply to daily flight operations.:(

[malaysiacadet]

What is 'Patok"? Nowadays Sireh, you can get all sorts of nonsense in Local flying schools. During exam, some fellow MAS cadets decided that "mugging up" was a difficult task and resorted to copying. and somebody had an eye closed. half-way through, papers were flying, phones were ringing, language of the hand were everywhere.and Yet, they were very proud that they had passed all! with no remorse! right after the exam when there is a discussion, a lot of them had no SINGLE IDEA on what question they ANSWERED, not 1, not 2, but all of the questions!!! They just don't know.
-and then come the problem of drug-abuse. This is probably happening in all the flying schools in malaysia. most of the Involved? you probably guessed it right. Selected one from MAS who had gone through Psychomotor, MISPA, Interview , Medical. apparently, they are the GENIUS breed of people who were carefully selected for this job - PILOT.
-As an aviator in Malaysia, well, not yet. I hope MAS will open up their eyes and reconsider their logic in "Flooding schools in malaysia with 200 cadets a year", I'd say, try to keep the ELITES, I will have many things to learn from them in the years to come when it is my turn to sit at the right seat
-I agree with you that Aviation Questionaires had little similarities or rather irrelevant to Daily Operations(if that is what you meant in your last sentence). But by doing these nonsense, you can judge them,PILOT,as a person & their character, and how will "THEY-The ELITES" contribute to the COMPANY and Aviation in future.
-It just doesn't stop at the school level, i'm sure everyone agrees.
Back into the COMPANY, doing type-rating, another round of nonsense, how did they do so well.

After all that i've said, I am not so Clean either. I did "Mug-Up" to make sure that my efforts at the textbook had paid off.

[babyboeing400]

why am i not surprised by drug abuse and all that crap happening in the local flying schools?MAS cadets can only be selected under the circumstances as below:1.Mesti Ada Saudara,their father is a captain or some big-shot manager in the company.2.It's a WHOLE LOT EASIER if you're a bumiputra. 3.It doesn't matter if you only score a despicable A in your SPM,but if you kowtow to me and show that you can adapt to our culture of kowtow-ing i might consider you.4.you're genuinely good and EXTREMELY lucky.

:ok:cheers all!

[flightleader]

Malaysiacadet,Kentot B,

The problem is not the exam method or the patok. It is the problem with the younger generation that is not willing to put in the hard work to get themselves up to the mark,so they rely on patok tactic. Also,this attitude of condeming the process which you have yet to experience has just proven your lack of maturity
in the aviation industry. This company had made hundreds of people from school boys to widebody captains of the world most modern jetliners in less than 15 years. MAS trained WB cockpit crew for some other airlines like Jetstar,Jet airways,even Qantas.MAS pilots are being accepted in major airlines like KAL,EK,EY,some B737 captains are offered B777 command.Are we not any good? The huge number of people obtaining their ATPL in the 80s is because there were then so many people sitting for it as the company expand.Do you know how little people sit for their ATPL in the 60 or 70s?

The younger generation like Malaysiacadet will find entry into the airline especially hard as you had set your mind condeming the process.Learn to fly safely before you even think of landing yourself an airline job,be it as a second officer or captain.

[ssangyongs]

i'm not a mas cadet but during my training days in melaka skool (u know which one) some of MAS cadet bringing in toyol during exam...in various shape. I'm not disputing their quality but that's life. Time changes. You have to adapt to pass. You have to sacrifice to pass. me too did some mug up..and my best friend, a MAS cadet always lend his toyol to me, hence the case of flying papers of toyol during exam is a norm. Just dont get yourself caught.

[ssangyongs]

dont worry, often people who bring in the toyol always ended up in the bottom of honor list in the batch. Most of the top cadets worked up their way during training and exams and they deserved it. Although i did admit i look at the toyol during exam, it never helped me much...because the note is not prepared by me so i dont really know how to use it. The most important thing is the flying part where we know, no toyols even hantus cant help us....

FYI toyol is the term given to small and hidden sheet of formulas smuggled into the exam..if you disputing the quality of the pembela toyol, they are now flying the narrow body birds of MAS, Air Asia etc. Seems everything okay so far...

[Brianigham]

Gentlemen,
I agree with "Flightleader" on the "generation" factor.
I see the quality of the rookies. Very diverse, I must say.
I wasn't much better when I was there as well.
Parties, last minute cramming, peeping ......he! he! toyols....sign language...the first smokes..hangovers....getting caught.......the apology....the pact....regret.. realisation......growth! ( goes to show how creative and resourceful you realise you can be when you need to be...ha ha ha ....genesis of a great pilot )
The kind of pilot/student you are at 200 hours does not in any way determine what kind of airline pilot you become.
The training enviroment in MAS is "ALIVE".
This is where boys become men. If they are lagging and scraping the bottom when they get online.........they eventually catch up and many become real top pilots in time.
Some of the "straight A's" straight everything guys who top the class at training school stop growing, have very few screw ups and dont know what they missed.
My IPs whacked the life, soul and spirit out of me when I was that " attitude problem " cadet. Today they are my best friends!
There is a saying:
Its your ATTITUDE and not your APTITUDE that determines your ALTITUDE.
When you get into a good airline with a strong legacy, unless you are really whacko! you should do alright.
Come on guys! Lets go out there and enjoy the flying.

[malaysiacadet]

Hydraulics pipe leaking, soon complete failure
"Captain, WE're GOING TO DIE!!! I bought "Toyols" for ENGINE Failure, but didn't bring any for hydraulics failure":eek::eek::eek::eek: Even better if he was the CAPTAIN. Imagine him telling the Co-pilot, I Don't Know What to DO!!!!!

[Brianigham]

ha ha ha .

I get your point malaysiacadet. cheers.

[hellboy]

Where ever they're right now it doesn't matter as long as they can motivate themselves to become a genuine good pilot, my self took my CPL at 'kampong' flying school just south of CKG but by joining a top airlines such as MAS or others is like taking a small step for a bigger opportunities in the future. I see the problem with the fresh graduate pilots they like taking a short cut by letting the automation fly the a/c n never make their own calculation. N that is scary...but some of them are really willing to learn n becoming a good pilot, so with toyol or not it is up to them to decide.
hellboy

[JaguhDunia]

Maybe there is something Kentot said that touched some raw nerves. I remembered some very senior skippers even some in the previous flight operations management predicted that quite a few senior FOs were going to be career FOs. Names like fonz, sunny boy, rabbit oh oh etc were pandied around. Apparently these would be career FOs sat for their ATPL exams for donkey times in the 70s and 80s but " lengkup ed ". But by miracles of miracles when the exam format changed in the late 80s, they all passed comfortably in one shot. Wow!

[WiraMelayu]

Right, Kentot has got some people, well I would say a lot of people squirming! Rabbit oh! Well so loud, must have the highest P2 hours on record besides oh my ghosh!

[PendekarTunggal]

Didn't someone intimated somewhere that some old timers like the sir kondehless bai up in Soeul also tipu in cohoots with jpa fellas in the 70's for their equally kopi O lesen. So it it's not only the late 80s or 90s when we have dodgy 7 ups.

[bakutteh]

Jaguh, Wira, Pendekar etc you guys must have joined MAS in the early and mid 80s. If you had sat for, and honestly passed the old ATPL exams with 7up, kudos to you. Your time spent must really be worthwhile as you know where you stand. In the 70's, there was a dark period where some pariahs dishonoured Malaysian aviation with their tipu ways. There were some whispers of that turbanless nasty, camel and some other chowkia pilots involved.

[Brianigham]

Gee I wish I was born a lot earlier then!
I did the objective "kacang putih"/ "sap sap soi" ATPL la. 7up also. ( yes it was pretty easy )
Would have loved to do the old method ATPL and come out 7 up there as well, but what to do.......! sudah buat lo...!
Don't be so hard on all the "career FO's la" Bunny was a top Captain la.( Good friend also la) You guys won't know..... you are too senior to have been his FO' . (politics and personals aside)
At least they 7 up'ed the easy one. There are some who lingkup even this.
My personal experience is that " exam scores " though important, pale in comparison to some other "ingredients" that make a "good skipper".

In the 70's, there was a dark period where some pariahs dishonoured Malaysian aviation with their tipu ways. There were some whispers of that turbanless nasty, camel and some other chowkia pilots involved.

Yeah.....heard about that. What a shame. More info please gents.

[Raj Merlion]

Beg to differ but the old rabbit was a basket case in the higher science and art of aviation. However he is ever the populist, seeking popularity and acceptance rather than substance.
Wooby has some good advice so despite bahkut's and paishinel's misgivings, there is always hope! What can be damaging is the ( sorry I have to paraphrase the toady pigme here! ) " herd mentality ".

[kamarulhitam]

F/Os tend to hang onto every drivel that come out of these basket cases as they tend to be very loud. They drop names of the former bosses to impress besides coming out with great stories best left to inside crew lounges after several beers. So i can see how the bunny, sunny, nikki nor and their ilk get admirers amongst the young uns. Right Raj, real populist but when **** hits the fan it's exciting watching the white knuckles and squeaky voices!

[bungacengkeh]

Ha ha, I remember sunny's diversion to batam I believe and also the bunny's diversion from JB. Very squeaky voices over the RT; no more the macho deep loud yakity yak!

[jonybungah]

You guys should seen the bunny's face when Capt Sekali beat him to the ALTP. Furthermore they had to fly in the same cockpit!

[flightleader]

While some of you sit around laughing at these 'carreer FOs', where some happened to past their ATPL in the new exam format,may I ask you that who would you prefer on your right hand seat?The freshy FOs these days came on the WB with minimum 737 experience whom happened to came out of flying schools with ATPL or these so called 'career FOs' who sat for the old format ATPL many times? Having passed the exam be it old or new format only gave them the licence. To be a real commander,one has to learn,build and survive it.Like B'ham said,it is alive. Having said that, it is ironic that jumbo captain had passed the old format ATPL,flown the jumbo for decades and yet sculptured the London runway with a jumbo's bottom,has he not learn enough or are we all just human here??
Everyone has his way of life,we should respect that.Making fun of others from the top(worse still from outside the circle) would be highly inappropriate.I would suggest to those having too much free time to look into continue contribution to the aviation industry in Malaysia.Instead of counting your ever
reducing EPF withdrawer at 60,why not look into putting some effort into ground/simulator instructing,I bet your experience would benefit the younger generations.
This one for those Rabbit shooter: The old rabbit is gonna be the 1st Malaysian to be rated on the 787 and will be conducting training,now that is something we should all be happy about!:D:D

[ikan_terbang]

The point here is the "career FO's" had problems passing exams. ie their knowledge is insufficient to be commanders. Who would I have them on the right hand seat. Makes no difference.

[Brianigham]

Passing your ATPL old way or new way, is not a good indication of whether you have enough knowledge to be a commander. Its more of how much effort you put into passing the exams.

I still laugh about Sunny.....we all still do.

Yes some had a smirk on their face when they heard about the misadventures if Nikki.

Lets leave it at that la.....poking fun at a few fellas who took an awfully long time to get their ATPL. Ok la call them "lembab" la if you want.

On the other hand, one must also remember and acknowledge that some of the " sharper " 7 ups and sprites are absolutely hopeless pilots.

Some people get their ATPL early, get their command early, join management so early on their first command. Sit in the office as they move up........never actually realising that they stopped learning a couple of decades ago.

:ugh:

[taufupok]

Well I guess the blokes are not poking fun, but they are just cheesed off that when these " lembab " guys passed the kacang putih ATPL they started to demand immediate respect and god like status. They behaved as if they had been wronged in the past and coleagues as well as management must atone for the slight they perceived that had been heaped onto them. To cover up for whatever inadequacies they perceived they had, they came up with puerile stories and anecdotes to lauch themselves into the big league.

[Paishinel]

Somewhere over here in the sandpit, we heard some interesting stories about the old rabbit from the Korean F/Os in EY during his stint in Alteon Korea. Well guess he has moved on to " greater ' heights. Good for him.
Taufu is right, nobody begrudge their passing the " easier ' ATPL; well all the newer skippers had the easier one. However it gets a little tiring having to listen to the name dropping, concocted heroics etc.
As for saffy avian's ass scrape in LHR; well we all know about his short fuse and knee jerk ways. Nothing to do with ATPL, airmanship or piloting skills...just plain blown fuse.

[ikan_terbang]

Taufupok.... How well remembered. The "lembab" fellas after passing the kacang puteh exam late, demanded direct B747 command. And then worked their pants off breaking all rules to get the required hours on the B737. Sigh !

[bungacengkeh]

Ikan, very correct. Some had standing orders for crewing to call them for flights as much as possible and some even had deals with crewing boys to swap over longer flights for them to collect more hours for direct 744. Corruption again!

[camelbird]

That's not corruption, it's Malaysia Boleh!!! This sweet deals with crewing has been going for years, with pilots and cabin crew dept.
No surprise there.:hmm:

[ikan_terbang]

The crewing department was a highly corrupt gang working to please guys who bought sweets and cigarettes for them. Saw with my own eyes. Fonze, Niki, Rabbit, and many more.
The bunch of ****s still cant even answer the phone properly. Highly inefficient and down right bodoh.

[tigerwood]

dear wooblah, I have to disagree with you about MAPA as Malay Airline Pilots Association. MAPA leaders came from different race as well. Chinese, Indian and Malay. Infact the longest serving MAPA President was a Chinese guy, my good friend LEG ( not kaki). I can mention a few more non malay leaders and excos in MAPA that have lead since inception. We had great leader and not so "great", malay or otherwise. We had those who gave up first class travel for first officer and those who gave up 10 days of annual leave a year and those who allowed 150% bond on conversion training.

Now, about M of U. It is a binding document between the company and the pilots. It is the contractual obligation between employer and employees. You can call it any name but for as long as it is an agreement, it's still binding. It is the terms and conditions of employment which was there since formation of MAS. May be the interpretation of the M of U is in question. Then bring it to the court to decide.

[ikan_terbang]

I remembered the day Whose Lan went round canvassing the pilots to accept the 10 days leave in return to get the back pay that was due. And many stupid pilots went to the AGM and voted for the resolution or the majority of the stupid pilots didn't care what the MOU was. They just wanted to get the money. Now suffer all the pilots. Whose Lan and Pigmy got promotions.I can only sit back and see the agony on the present pilots faces. The executive enjoy 18 days of public holidays and 104 days of week ends and 30 days leave.. What do pilots get. 30 days and 8 days per month = 8 x 12 = 96 days ..and NO public holiday or weekends. Just as well I left. Ha Ha

[tigerwood]

I would say it's 11 months X 8 = 88 days. Pls take note that if one take leave for the month, the full 8 days off will not be yours, ie. if you have 2 weeks annual leave in a month won't entitle you 22 non working days. One must understand that 42 days leave is equivalent to 30 days (2 days off in a week). Unlike other graded staff, they can be on non working days for 9 days but recorded as 5 days annual leave taken (monday to friday).

[segajet]

Very sorry to hear about the state of affairs at MAS. I did a short spell as an expat captain on B737 at Subang in the early 90's, and have many great memories of screaming around PJ on two wheels in the crew bus and wonderful flying and nightstops in Malaysia. At the time flight ops compared very favourably with any company worldwide, and the copilots I flew with were keen, competent and very friendly and welcoming. MAS had an advantage over companies like SIA, in having a fleet of Fokkers,Twotters and 737's, on which the new lads could cut their teeth and hone their flying skills, before moving onto widebodies. Even then I felt that the pilots were let down by all the other departments, like HR and commercial, who were well below world standard.
Just before I left the company a new DFO was appointed, with connections to management, and the rot seemed to be setting in at MAS. A "night of the long knives" followed with senior management having to resign and then apply for their old jobs back. Political cleansing on a small scale.
If I have learnt anything in my 30 plus years in flying, it is that airlines must run on meritocrasy, and that people in management and training should be above average pilots. Political promotions lead to a break down in trust and respect. I can assure you that SE Asia does not have a monopoly on fast track promotions. A senior union position often leads to a management job in companies worldwide.
I hope that MAS turns it around and becomes successful. With a more balanced management and a change of mindset, the skies the limit.

[GTR-34]

hi segajet, most of the copilots you probably flew with during early 90s left the company and are now successful else where. Better to stay outside and watch the rot rather than be in it...:)

[chintanmanis]

Segajet, many thanks for the good words. Welcome sight to see former expats with fond memories. Met with a former Ozzie now with KAL, he was so scathing about how bad he is treated in kimchi land compared to how nice we guys were to him! Cheers!

[ngapsayot]

Yo Tiger; when Leg was Mapa prez, things were chugging along fine until his vice prez made deals behind his back. Poor fella got caught up with some some devilish ideas concotted by his not so honourable deputy and things went downhill. Then came " magic " and the 1.5 +15 fiasco. I couldn't believe it that MAS pilots could be so dumb to have voted for it. Later Leg's former vice sign away f/o's travel privileges and join the management to set up the audit empire. Abuses of Mapa & management screwing both pilots and haemoraghing the company gave the camel enough ammunition to mount the bloody coup. I personally saw leg's former deputy coaching pigmy how to deal with the " herd " when pigmy took over Mapa. So the non Melayus had their own devils...hey 001 was an ex Mapa sec.:{:{

[Raj Merlion]

Hi, how about making 001 and the pariah creep honorary melayus. 001 sure behaves like one and the pariah licks royal asses and wear latuk songkok rather than a turban!:yuk:

[Mat Tongkang]

Raj, the Malay race cannot accept such human trash! The songkok certainly will not fit into the bloated pariah heads.

[Akali Dal]

Hi Malaysian pilots, over here in India we heard some unsavoury anecdotes about a certain con man of Punjabi extract giving us Khalsa a bad name. He was dishonourably driven out of Mumbai some 8 to 9 years ago and I believe he is known in Korea as g-string. Is this the guy you guys alluded to? Was he really your union president? Ten years back we used to hear of claims that he is a royal pilot who flew your king around...was that all true? A lot of guys were taken in by his claims though a few had reservations about such characters. If he had been your union president I am sure sorry for you guys. Cheer up, learn from your boo boos!

[heffalump168]

ha ha ..LOL...g-string, how apt! Ya Akali Dal you got it right! Not union boss but he was MAPA ( Malaysian Airlines Pilots Association ) president. Screwed pilots with underhanded deals with management to get Audit Dept deputy boss job whilst maintaining post as MAPA prez. Signed away copilot's travel privileges without consulting other EXCO members, misused audit dept position for personal gains and junkets; then conned Dr Con in conjunction with another rat rol-and to be seconded to jet; then double dipping as alleged. A g-string indeed! The guys in kimchi land must really know more than we do to come up with that!

[segajet]

You can't blame people for voting with their feet, and I guess the huge expansion in the Gulf has caused a massive drain on MAS.It is always sad to see talent leaving the country.
There is so much potential in Malaysia for huge profits that it would be tragic if things couldn't be turned around at MAS.
Thanks for some great memories and good luck for the future.

[ikan_terbang]

Shed some lite on g-string's fling with bollywood

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Hi Tiger,

I think you will find that a MoU is not a contract at all and cannot be up held in a court of law. :ugh:

G-string ha ah ha ha ah Thats a bloody good one, can just picture the crossdressing pr!ck in a black lace stringer up his crack. How does he continue to keep his dirty little hands in the industry!!!!!

[Raj Merlion]

Hi Wooblah, the reason why he is still in the game is that he is like a hyaena...kill the small ones and grovel at the feet of his superiors. The classic coward but a big bully.
If people all stand up to such bullies, they will shrink away, but MAS and ex-MAS people are too weak and yellow!
Of course he has his own hunting packs, fellow low lifes helping and supporting him. So be tough and despatch these miscreants to their rightful place amongst human trash heap.

As far as MAS is concerned I think morale has sunk to a new low. There was a glimmer of hope a couple of years ago but things have gone pear shape again! As for MAPA leadership, the voices calling for caution are very wise. I do know the current mob running the show and I do know they harbour great ambitions ala the camel! Be forewarned is to be forearmed.

[tigerwood]

Hello Wooblah,

A case is still on going in the court of law. As of now, the M of U is in the hand of the judge, It's part of the evidance document that the court accepted for this particular case. Otherwise, it would have been thrown out long time ago. So, I won't say it's a piece of toilet paper as you have said. This is something good to MAPA members.

[Brianigham]

Hi Captain Wooblah: I know what you mean, I had always thought that the MOU was just a book to be more like a guide.
However,
I have been told that the MAS pilots MOU is a contract and is binding on all parties and will hold in court. They have apparently checked with the lawyers. I guess a test case would be good eh. he he.itch itch.
I think its about time the guys here test the system. The number of violations is ridiculous.
I also see the points made about Captains sons in the system through the cadet programme. Hmm....different points of view I guess. I actually would love it if my son could follow in my footsteps if he so chooses.
While I have flown with some gentlemen ( Capts sons ) as mentioned earlier.......I guess there is and will be some where the acorn did actually fall not too far off the tree.
After reading this thread..... I have found an all new level of respect for the G string. Yeah.....he sure screwed things up.
Point to note as well........ There was a "team" involved in MAPA signing the FRCL off. Heard that "mismangement" was offered something after he put his signature on the piece of paper. Then again......there was de "Charma" involved as well. You bet I was upset. Was one of the earlier ones to go EY.
Raj..... you really think even this bunch of guys are going to do the hat trick. That will be real sad for us guys here at MH , who are not voting with our feet.
Once bitten twice shy.I am nearly ten times shy now bro. Just how do we spot them. How on earth are we going to pick the right people to lead MAPA.
Was there ever a time when the leadership @ MAPA was good.
cheers!

[Paishinel]

Hi Tiger, you must to able to confirm once and for all whether g-string twisted arms to acquire a more prestigious lower membership number of a retiree as alluded in the Jet Airways Recruitment in Malaysia thread.

[tigerwood]

Paishinel, you want the truth? The answer is YES. I knew the number he took...but I wish to leave it as it is.
Anyway, MAPA is still important to MH guys. It's up to the members to make it a strong and respected entity. If MAPA is down, it's the members' fault. I won't blame those guys using MAPA as stepping stone for personal gain as the members are the one that allowed such thing to happen. You have the VOTING POWER. Use it wisely...of course if only you are wise.:cool:

[kamarulhitam]

Aha, leaving things as it is becomes part of the malaise someone had pointed out. MAS people accept this sort of crap and the management plus their stinking bedfellow pilots will continue to dish out crap. The obvious condoning of unhealthy practices posted on another thread on corruption and nepotism in MAS is appalling to say the least.

[mohdawang]

Heard from a former colleague now in KAL that the g-string thingy has something to do with a word pun rhyming with the guy's user name. Can any one in kimchi land confirm?

[Paishinel]

Tiger, thanks for being up front with the truth now. If the truth had been known earlier, many of the blind would have seen that pariah in a different light. What a cheap fake? Mapa prez cheating to look good with a more " senior " membership number:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[bungacengkeh]

Weren't Capt. klepto and camel both done in by g-string up in SEL? Heard from someone gstring squealed to KAL mgmt about klepto after feting him to a dinner? Alteon Korea was alerted to camel's presence to be chopped. Camel & gstringh...must have been some snake fight!

[Akali Dal]

Well not real bollywood but underground ( black market ) bollywood. There are a lot of " comfort " ladies masquerading as bollywood stars or wannabes. Mind you, they look dishy but can be quite trashy. Many foreign " richies " are caught unaware but there are savvy ones who fool their friends with these birdies...their naive friends go " whoa " at these dishies. Great to have them hanging around at your parties tho' for cheap thrills!

[OKhalsa]

Righto! Bollywood comforters! Well at I.I's 50th birthday bash some 8 years ago I did see one of these comforters hanging onto g-stringh...it was indeed a lame droopy attempt to impress but I think quite a few were wise to that!

Tiger...naming and shaming that creep at the time when he twisted arms to get the MAPA " seniority " number then might have save the FOs their travel privileges as he wouldn't have been so brazen. I wished MAS pilots had been more informed and made better choices then.

Was told that Capt. Klepto was indeed done in by g-stringh, not sure about camel...wouldn't be surprised if he indeed did it.

[Mat Tongkang]

Aha! gstring and bollywood comforters! Sadarjis, thank you and keep it coming!

Yes, he did turn up for II's birthday party with such a comforter in hand. Saw that but didn't thought it was that comforting!

[camelbird]

The past few group of exco's,vice pres.,pres. of mapa have their weakness but the toad and gang were the worse because they affect alot of pilots and when they got the managment post for selling out the pilots, they made it worse by turning the screws on the pilots working condition. At least the new guy at mapa has some sincerity ,trying to do sometime good for the pilots. Just remember who the toad's salesman was, who con alot of junior pilots to vote a certain way.:ouch:

[JaguhDunia]

Once the gangrene set in, it stinks all the way. The rot in MAPA started to fester intensely with the reign of the so called kondeyless bhai g-string. He and his side kick charma fiddled and ravaged the whole psyche of the association; so much so that ( as someone remarked in another thread ) the whole pilot community was left psychologically damaged. Like abused children they accepted all the crap thrown at them; even worshipping their abusers. Their critical thinking went down the toilet and so have their self esteem...they accept corrupt and shady practices with nary a shrug, so the bhai and gang milked the system to the maximum until the camel used all the abuses as ammunition to mount the infamous ayatollah takeover which left MAS pilots in a cess pit. On the broader front MAS itself stated decaying and haemorrhaging around that period. Once the rot started it needs a miracle to reverse the effects. Toady, whose - lan learnt very well from gstringh and charma and we are left to nurse the putrefying flesh from the first infection.....

[Barney Rock]

Mohdawang...I was alerted to this post by a friend trolling this S A & F E forum. When I was east in the land of the morning calm some years ago there was indeed a loud mouth from " truly asia " who had a name rhyming with g-string and I think he is the guy implicated here and in the thread about Jet Airways recruitment from that country. A snaky fella with lots of baggage I believe......and loads of tall tales!

[ngapsayot]

Heard over the grape vine that gstringh botched up a landing in NRT ala sekali, scraped the engine pod; found it during the walkaround and kept quiet about the whole thing despite flying the stricken plane the next leg. It was found out by the next crew....excuse, FO flew it! Amazing that this ass is still in the game...the powers that be in SEL must surely be so blind and dumb!

[Ace Springbok]

Very true, I remember that incident. It was CRIMINAL not to report such an incident! He got away with the help of an ex kenyan snake of gujarati descent; this snake delta delta is a kimchi brownnoser perpetually parking himself up on the 7th floor of the oc building hoping for some management positions...........at least that was the case when I was still there a couple of years ago. It was indeed fortunate the mechanic and the other crew detected it, otherwise the blame could have put on someone else especially if subsequent landings encounter similar wind/ or nearly similar landing attitudes ( but not that far as to scrape the engine pod; no doubt AIMS report, FOQA analysis could have ascertained who the culprit was ). No report to tower meant that should a piece come loose during the scrape on the runway, other planes taking off/landing could have been endangered like the Concorde in Paris!

[Mat Tongkang]

Can the boys in Kimchi land confirm Ace's allegation? It sure is serious; I am ashamed that a fellow M'sian is involved; but then this is that kondehless miscreant! Tsk, tsk,tsk!!

[WiraMelayu]

Over some steaming teh tarik, someone did confirm that the kondehless arse did indeed prang an engine pod into the runway at NRT sometime ago. Did not report to anybody during that short transit ( I believe was SEL-NRT-SEL ), hoping it will be pinned on somebody else. Unfortunately, he managed to get away with it after some intense lobby on his behalf by a fellow snake from kenya or somewhere. Can other kimchi drivers confirm this?

[MAS Guy]

MAPA is a Joke and run by clowns!

[Barney Rock]

My understanding was that he did not escape; vigilance on the part of maintenance and the later crew found the damage caused in NRT. Of course he tried to deny it and pin it on someone else but the AIMs report showed the bank angle at touchdown.

However intense bootlicking and arse licking on his behalf by dd, that kenyan snake masquerading as an oz adder got him off lightly. Whoa, reptiles of the same kind hissed together!

[Molokai]

Is this the same bloke mentioned in the Jet recruitment in SEA thread? Maybe Kaptin M can tell us about reporting such dangerous individual to the Japanese Safety authorities. I sure wouldn't like to be taking off or landing after someone with any fuselage or engine pod contact with runway and not reporting. Any part coming off can cause damage to other aicrafts like the catastrophic Concorde fiery crash at CDG.

[Paishinel]

Barney and others formerly from Kimchiland....you must really enlighten us on the going ons over there. With the current recruitment drive, many peolple are making a bee line for SEL; would be great to get a real low down on the place before one commits to moving there.:hmm:

[Brianigham]

Mas Guy wrote:

MAPA is a Joke and run by clowns!:oh:

Pray....please tell sir. details details details.;)

[Mat Tongkang]

A lot of guys knows the background of the MAPA people. The prez did harbour ambitions of being in top management and was in a quasi management position sometime ago despite misgivings about his technical and command ability. Many were shocked when his " patrons " made him A330 SIP even though years ago he shut down a perfectly good engine merely due to a spurious oil pressure warning light WITHOUT crosschecking the actual oil pressure gauge and other parameters. As usual he was let off without barely a whimper from flight safety ( under the infamous camel then ). So you see, these blokes have hidden patrons and unseen hands protecting them as they go about being " sleepers " in the dark play of MAPA/management tango. A guy who did not have hidden support wouldn't have been let off that easily, especially by the camel.
So guys, delve deep and research before you put your total faith in MAPA.

[Brianigham]

I say " Mat tongkang" that was not the kind of details i was looking for la.
That may have happened quite some time ago. I probably wasnt around yet.
Don't think Kamil is a force at all now though.
The current prez has done so much for us la. We got that 25% pay rise on basic and some 60% on productivity.....i forget details. So many many issues are settled and are being settled.Prductivity is now tax free. The other senior exco guys have also put their neck out for us and we have not lost a single thing in our MOU for a long time now.
Even the previous exco was not too bad la. I think all teams suffer from fatigue. We then have to pick from amongst ourselves people who are capable of holding the fort for the next few years. I remember the time when Johan was president. He was very very instrumental in putting MAPA in good shape. Boy did he grow some grey hairs. Even Nawawi did us some service. The truth of the matter is us the boys need to open our eyes and see clearly. Many blame Nawawi for the loss of ten days in annual leave. I actually met Nawawi and Nik after their meeting with HR with the final deal, before they put it to the floor. They were not happy at all with what they had to present to us. I know they did hella ve lot of work. I told them outright that my vote was no! Reject!, but the mandate was then to bring it to the members.
We as a team voted yes. We did it to ourselves. The reason for that is that generally speaking "as a people" we are spineless. There are times when we have gotta be good followers. The presidents put their necks out when they call for the book to be adhered to. Mind you we are in boleh land. The pilots dont waste a single breath in accepting the first Under table deal. Therefore .....no strength. Of course there are a few hardcore fellas who will stand behind the people they voted in. This is what keeps us going la bro.
The other option is for us to vote with our feet.
I am really saddened by many of the post about and from guys who have left MH. Those who are still here salute you guys and always wish you blue skies and green backs, however we always end up seeing postings comparing those who have left and the daft who stay.
Not all who left are the cream of the crop, of course now with lenny going, thats a lot of cream wasted la. Kudos lenny!
There are some real great blokes who are still around. Some of us like myself ( not ace la , just plain ol line pilot), who are actually living our dreams. Sure .....comparatively the cash is a little sad,but I look forward to every flight. I can still conjure up a few "sardine packed" taxi rides with our set, the great card games. The late night chats and innocent walks down by the riverside KCH with the girls.Nowadays we take the sampan across the river for some good seafood. Its still a very nice place to work, when you take your eyes away from the rot thats happening with admin.
Some of us who are from around KL, get to have dinner at our parents place and with our inlaws. The kids grow up with gramps and tug along to the golf course to be awed and spoilt silly by the old men.....
When dad goes in for that angioplasty ( god forbid ) we pick the phone up and tell the FM "geng" ......its done!
Of course there is the -ve. The new lords have decided that pilots now report to 2 lady bosses who are not pilots. Well thats sad. Now we have these 2 questioning pilots on why they do this and that.The legacy of the MAS pilot is fast drawing to a close. What we need is a U turn.
I seriously belief ( like the miss usa NC) thata osama the time we lose out, but a if we helpa countries like the south africa and eyeraq, we will one day be able to pick ourselves up.
If you are ex MH......wish us well la bro.
Wish us a good flight ops team and a good mapa team, then we can build up to a good MH team.
It just must be done.

[EY777]

Well said Brianigham.

I for one believe some of these posters are "old school".Very bitter indeed.You reap what you sow :}

I have fought the fight & now looking after my family's welfare.For those that stayed to fight on, all the best & good luck, unfortunately, my view is that you guys now are in a deeper rut & mindless conspiracies.

[Brianigham]

Thank you bro. EY777 from the land of.....aaaah berianee how I miss thee.
And the deeper rut is quite evident. Boy do we need some help from the ballot box!
And to all my Ex MH friends "Salute/Salams/Bonjour'.......Gee..."kimchi? I guess.:O All the best to you guys. Selamat Hari Raya to all my muslim friends.:ok:

[flightdeckXXX]

I would agree to some of what Brainigham said. But for one thing I must disgree is about the signing away our 10 days annual leave. He did not explained enough to the members the value of that 42 days which equivalent to 30 days (after minus the 2 days of weekend per week of leave). And with road show during the satay party, neither him and his exco try hard enough with the campaign to reject (as what you said that he was not happy with the final offer). Also, when he got into the management post together with his right hand man, both doesn't seem to acknowledge that wearing two hats is no good to the welfare of the association plus his credibility as the President. How would you feel if every Prez and his men wearing two hats and still claim that they are on your side? If it's OK with him, it must be OK for the present Prez and the future one.

[boltak]

Some of the issues may be history but they say that those who fail to learn from history will repeat the same mistakes. And if keep making the same mistakes then how to move up the learning curve? Maybe be like the management. From Crew Mismanagement System graduate to Idiotic Crew Management System and now doing post-graduate Completely Mismange System (hopefully not) How many millions down.

[Brianigham]

Yes you are right Flightdeckxxx. I have talked to many people about this over the past few years. Those who were working closely with MAPA during Niks time actually were very much against the idea of accepting the deal. Most other people I talk to about this episode seem to share your sentiments bro. That there was not enough proper understanding on what we were about to sign away. It was very very clear to me though.

There were no satay parties after this offer bro.It went straight to the EGM.I remember very clearly that Nawawi actually reiterated that if they ask for leave we must stand firm and say NO. Bro.....nobody was standing. PungKH resigned from training....who else?. What else. Let me tell you bro... I was an FO who lost all respect for the Captains I flew with that did not want to make a stand. Sad bro....if you were around during that time I am sure you saw what happened.

Wearing 2 hats: Yes this I agree. They did not seem to think that this was a problem. Hmmmm This should not happen. The funtion and priorities of higher management and MAPA leadership overlap only very very very rarely.

We all have our own perceptions on people who are in MAPA leadership and that is our individual right. The Pilots in management have also never ceased to amaze us with the speed at which the forget how to take care of the boys.....and you know what ....that is their right.

It is our right however to decide if we are going to be taken for a ride by any of them. In all things.....pilots really need to stick together and use that brains we are supposed to have. All the best to all of us.

[flightdeckXXX]

Bro, what to do...Looking at the loss, for every 3 years, it's 36 days (12 X 3) which is equivalent to a month's salary. And if one in the company for 10 years, it's 120 days, which means a loss of 4 months salary, bro... Many of us were looking at short term gain as compare to long term loss. That was the stand that most pilots made at the time. So, they made their stand...On which side do they stand? You know lah...

Cheers bro, and Happy Raya.

P.S. didn't know he left training coz of this. Anyhow, heard the KimciLand made him as LCP and now as Auditor. Syabas Fredie!
:D

[Brianigham]

Yes bro, from what I remember, which may be flawed due passage of time, he was one of the first to rise and will forever be remebered as a patriot. Miss him much! :D....thanks for the update. very happy for him.

[flightdeckXXX]

Brianigham, you are right. The EGM was conducted right after the offer given. However, as MAPA Prez and exco members that deal directly with management team during the negotiation, it's him and his team to clearly explained why the annual leave should not be reduced to the management. No need to get the mandate of the members. One must understand that pilots get:

1. no weekends
2. no public holidays
3. no overtime pay even working on public holidays (unlike all other ground staffs.)
4. missing much of the festive holidays due to extra flights during that period
5. bonded for career progression/promotion (no bond for ground engineers for type rating course/training. Ground staffs at times were sent for some sort of training/courses on company's expenses)

Looking at it, that 42 days is just a thin layer of icing on the cake to compensate for what we are not getting.

[flightdeckXXX]

Dear Mat Tongkang,

One must understand that loss of oil pressure whether it is genuine of not, a shutdown is required. One cannot assume that the fault is spurious once the warning LOP light and pressure gauge confirmed it, even if the oil quantity is full. But one can keep the engine running if the oil pressure is good (and no LOP light) even the oil quantity indicated zero. I believe (this was many years ago, haven't flown the 73 since then), the checklist required us to check the oil press gauge also, not just the LOP light before shutting down the engine. It does not ask to check the oil quantity. Of course if the quantity is zero, and oil press is low and LOP light ON, it's a sure case due to loss of oil in the engine that cause the oil pressure to drop.

I may miss something here. Correct me if I'm wrong or my statement here is not accurate.

[Brianigham]

flightdeckxxx,
You are absolutely right. It was their job to impress upon management that the offer was not acceptable, however we, the people, took that "right" away from them. We insisted on seeing the final final offer and did not give them the chance/mandate to reject it before tabling it. Nik on the night before the EGM was already deflated.( we had a little arguement about the offer) He knew it would be accepted. But still I shouldn't make excuses. The package ......if sold well enough on the correct points ( which is the exco's responsibility/ie to correctly educate) I believe, could very well have seen different results.
Its a real bummer! But thats what we have today, a measly 32 days.....that is....if you get it....ha ha ha . What a pain in the neck.
I remember running around telling everyone I knew to reject it, but with such low salaries.....if you remember those days.....anything to get a payrise was acceptable. We were desperate to see the money.
It was, and to a certain extent still is the mentality of many pilots that you must "give away" something.....to get a payrise. They call it "give and take". Wrong understanding of the phrase, I'd say.
Shock treatment is sometimes required to wake people in this comatose up, and realise that we are not that low. I am glad that many of these people have woken up since. remember the Last MoU, there were some folks who were only too eager to give up FRCL travel for a payrise. You don't need to sell the shirt on your back, MH pilots.
We live and learn. One sure thing that is a must have , is strong togetherness and higher self worth. The attrition of our colleagues to greener pastures was that shock treatment. It emboldened many of us and we are now able to look beyond the 4 grey walls that surround us.( I know, I know we still chose to stay within these walls) This realisation is power. At least we realise that while we are here we can actually get a flower pot and "fruit basket".
Whether you stay or go, pilots worldwide have it in their hands to get the picture right within this next few years before the tide changes.
All the best to all of us.
Cheers!

[Marcellus Wallace]

Brianigham - from your style of writing I can guess who you are kawan. We may have shared many conversations at the top floor of the Hyatt BKI or the flightdeck of the "Super Ranger". San Francisco?

I still miss my extended family and friends and of course the food.

Most of us have no ill feeling towards MH and guys who remain in MH. We may be critical at times maybe because we loved or still have a soft spot for it and hope for it to do better. There are still a lot of guys with talent.

Your quote
"Not all who left are the cream of the crop."

Ignore the guys who post with venom and like to compare - they are probably some of the more immature ones boasting about their new found wealth - but have forgotten where they come from. They are beginning to sound like sour cream.

By all means leave if you wan't to but do it properly. I paid my dues. It's bad karma to do otherwise - it may catch up with you some day.:ok:

[Brianigham]

Thank you Marcellus Wallace,

Ha Ha Ha .....lets keep it a mystery bro.....no fun la otherwise.....Super Ranger.....yes of course......13th floor BKI ....most definitely.....but frisco....aiya.....wasn't that blessed bro.:O

Points noted sir, and well appreciated.

We have a new stream emanating from good ol MH "airline pilot training school," flowing out to the shores of AA X.

I wish them well. You guys heard who is back ya! The main man himself!

I have a scarry good feeling about AsiaX. With the right angle, they could do pretty well.

[oztrekker]

For fltdeckxxx and others, I was in MH during the time of the engine shutdown due to only LOP light...I think that Mat Tongkang meant that only the LOP lite illuminated but the skipper did not confirm with oil pressure reading ( the oil pressure gauge did indicate normal pressure ) and indeed shutdown a good engine. I was one of the expat B734 instructor then and I couldn't believe that the skipper was later made instructor on the B734 and then SIP on A330. No doubt people do improve after mistakes made and should be given the benefit of the doubt, which I would gladly extend to any pilot. However I was involved in the investigation of the incident and I was indeed amazed at the lame excuses, belligerent attitude and complete disregard for genuine post incident counseling on good airmanship. Hence I do understand M T's reservations and I do sincerely counsel young uns to heed " old schoolers " input. Cheers & good luck!

[MAS Guy]

Remember the case of a Captain pushing CB in until it burn, then straight away being promoted from 737 to 747. So in MAS, if u F/U, u will get promoted if you know which a** to lick!

[Raj Merlion]

This was a dangerous practice ; MAS runs on a lot of good luck. There were numerous episodes whereby flights would have come to disastrous grief, but by the grace of Lady Luck all turn out OK. It's a matter of time when luck runs out. With the upgrading and expansion of many of the tricky local airports, MAS theatre of operations is fairly forgiving and hardly challenging as international operations are generally to well equiped/well regulated airports.
The forementioned skipper must have been one of those " nearly lifetime F/Os " who were scrambling to be directly upgraded from B734 to B744. It was mentioned somewhere that even guys who had pranged their wing tips only to be rewarded by bypassing their " clean record " seniors for upgrade to the B744!!! Such is the sad state of affairs in MAS and MAPA HAD ACCEPTED AND BY EXTENSION, CONDONED this travesty of fair play.

[bungacengkeh]

The MAPA prez during the said bypass is up in kimchiland, maybe he will can to justify MAPA's positon. He must have agreed to management's plan as he was not affected by the bypass!

[kamarulhitam]

2 ex-MAPA prezs in kimchiland...my,my; are the Koreans cursed or blessed by their presence? Read on some posts that one of the ex prez pranged a engine pod in NRT but did not report...no surprise here, ya guys? The snake can really slither out of tight cracks!!!

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Well I agree to some of the points made by Brian and disagree with some. For example the mapa pres daaatuuk jewham. What a bloody puntz he was. As for the Pigmy he did nothing and was a brainless twit. The brains and hard work came from Nik and he is the only one I have any respect for because of his track record and his ability to talk about those days and the mistakes up to today. As for the Jurassic period with leg etc MAPA was a joke and a tea party after the PSB. G-string and the toothy one (believe he got his K9's straightened) well need I say more.

So I guess it's always better to be real. The past is the past and the future has not been written yet so to all of you fighting the good fight. Good Luck. And when it comes to Lawyers, remember our Aussie friends of 89.

To all Gong Xi Fa Chi and Selamat Hari Raya Maaf Zahir Batin.

Wooblah.

[ngapsayot]

ha ha ha Kamarul, great one!:D:D:D

[flightdeckXXX]

In the 80’s, I have involved myself or at least have the knowledge of the ongoing TI and DI. Those who was involved in an incident (as MAPA member) was allowed to ask MAPA exco to participate in the DI proceeding, if member asked for it. It is not a compulsory; the choice is up to the member/s that got into trouble.

The management decides if the pilot/s concerned will face a D.I. It’s not up to MAPA to say who should be DI and who shouldn’t. Only if a DI is required by the management, the member/s can asked MAPA for a representative. Pls read your M of U before you put the blame on MAPA exco or even the Prez if any of the so called “office buddy” got into trouble but was not D.I. Of course as a line pilot, we got upset when we noted someone did serious negligence just got a smack on the hand. While a guy who was under investigation got his salary completely stop. Poor chap crying for not being able to feed his family and pay his mortgage or rental. The bottom line is, the management at their own whim and fancy decide with no respect to the company’s disciplinary order/procedures.

Those day (I could remember during Hassan time), a P.O. (punishment order) can only be given by the Director of Personnel, not even the DFO can issue the P.O. Be it no annual increment, demotion, etc…

P.S. to KamarulHitam: could your correct your statement about the wing tip incident? If you want to pass a remark about someone’s incident, pls tell the truth. It was the engine pod, some “bruise” mark underneath. Got plenty wing tip incident: in Dacca (330), Male (330), Kuching (737)…If I could scan my diary in here, you will be surprise to note so many incidents in 1996-1999 alone. Anyway, it’s always wiser after it happened. Talk is cheap. Selamat Hari Raya.

[bungacengkeh]

me thinks kamarul made an honest mistake relating the incident from another thread. looks like ex mapa prezs defending their stand...a lot of **** happened during their watch.

[kamarulhitam]

fltdeckxxx, a thousand apologies for indicating wingtip instead of engine pod...must be hard on yr fellow axe ( sic! ) prez. Oops! but I have now edited that post. So the incident is indeed true, but not to report it...tsk,tsk, tsk:=

[Geragau]

kamarul...you are indeed a great phisherman!!!!

[JaguhDunia]

phisherman??? Am I missing something?

Now for the MAPA guys, if you act helpless, clueless and without guts then the management will have you for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

As for fltdkxxx, no point storming into super ranger's office, puffing away with your legs up the table. That kind of bravado leads one to no where...super ranger was just a small fry in a dirty kuali.
For MAPA one must mobilise the members for collective action; the sad thing is that the lack of substance all over, in every bit of MAS pilots in particular the gomen mara sponsored ones. The management know this and milk this lack of gumption to the maximum.

[MAS Guy]

Come mgmt, step on my head again pls!

[Paishinel]

Jaguh, geragau, kamarul & fltdkxxx...I must have missed something here. What are you guys on about? I hope the fasting has not led to hallucination....Merry Raya!

[Sireh]

Paishinel, do read between the lines. kamarul is indeed a phisherman...someone got outed!

[Langkasuka]

Looks like kamarul phish out some apologists for MAPA's deliberate misadventures which screwed ip the career progression of loyal die hard members...members who were members well before the prezs decided to johnny come lately join MAPA much later to take over as leader leading the organisation to the pits!

[camelbird]

The trick of the devil is to convince you he doesn't exist. Capt Wooblah has some good words about Nik Whose Lan! but if he knew what this guy was up to before the crucial vote at that time, he wouldn't be so kind.
The Toad was only the face but Nikky was pulling the strings.
We talked about all the past guys in Mapa but this guy is the one that did the most damage.
He and the Toad manipulated Mapa for their own gains.Yes,the members were the one that shot themselve in the foot but it's Whose Lan! who was canvassing the junior guys in east malaysia to vote for the proposal.
Once you steer the members towards a proposal that was not in the best interest of the members, then you betray the trust of the members who voted you in.
Now he has his little kingdom in charter flights, but he got there by stepping on the heads of all members who trusted him and his gang.
He can run but he can't hide and it's about time he gets outed for what he did.

[bakutteh]

Really sad...looks like nikky outdid the snaky g-stringh. Well if not for the camels's coup, the kondehless creep would have been in an audit kingdom too.

[sayacayasamalu]

With nearly all negative comments from exmas drivers now so called basking in the land of milk and honey aka kimciland towards mas,Have you guys ever wondered why some of your comrades are sending feelers to mas management about being reinstated.Perhaps the grass is not as green on the otherside anymore.All this tough talk is to camouflage your yearning to return.Wrong move huh in the heat of the moment.Save all your unhappiness for your own airline and let those in mas tackle their own missgivings.They have enough problems on their own without you turncoats adding more fuel to the fire.Why ,looking down at your shoe with the 100 dollar bill pasted doesnt do the trick anymore?

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Dear Camelbird,

I think it is a case of sour grapes here Nikki did not sell us out via an East Malaysian coup. 5 twotters and 10 F-50's does not constitute a great percentage. If memory serves correctly at that time we had close to 50 B734's. So, I would say that the majority of votes came from the young guns of the time which makes up most of the widebody middle ages now. I think he was lured to management because he is a sharp bumi and his intentions were good. But, I disagree with his decision. Regarding charter, I say good for him and I wish him luck. Additionally I think he would have made a great DFO and that he would have fought for us in that capacity.

sayacayasamalu,

I think you are way off base. The guys that left MAS did it because they were sick of the status quo and had the guts to cut the umbilical chord and move on to a different space time continuum rather than remain still stupid. They are the ones that have put Malaysian pilots on the international podium and perhaps even opened doors for you should you decide to move from MAS one day. Kudos to them. Now days it is not just the Europeans that can move to our shores but us to theirs as well. My penny worth.

Wooblah ;)

[Mat Tongkang]

sayacaya...are you by any chance the turbanless low life in question or are you his bed fellow? I do hear of the snaky fellow making overtures to mas mismanagement to return!

[camelbird]

Dear Wooblah,
The point I was making is that he ( Whose Lan) got his post in Mapa on the promised that he and Toady were different from the past team, and that they were there only to help their colleagues who have been exploited by the company. The East Malaysia thing was just one evidence of his true intention. Yes, he is a smart bumi but would he and the toad had gotten to where they are now if the MoU was not accepted, I don't think so.
Not one person I met have said they did not regret that they accepted the deal ( I voted NO). That's why the title of my earlier post, the toad have been flamed by past posts on this site but Nik was THE man behind the scene.
You stabbed a guy in the back and then you give him first aid. You get a medal for saving that guy's life. Sound familiar??

[sayacayasamalu]

Wooby,mat tongkol and what not, you guys have burnt your bridges ,so best stay on your side off the fence and just enjoy your kimchee instead of condeming those still in mas.What good does it bring you cause you are never ever going to be taken back .Whatever rotten things going on in mas is of no cosequence to you.Remember you have abandoned mas and those remaining to stay back are happy that you found a very caring and rewarding airline to work for.Dont have to rub more salt into our wounds .But if you happen to be someone who just can help but badmouth ,target your own airline cos it might just improve your lot. Just Leave mas to mas insiders ,CAPITO ....

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Ok Camelbird,

I agree to disagree, fair option as we can all have our opinions.

sayacayasamalu,

Kimchee land I think not, you take too much for granted. How do you know I won't be doing your next base check.

Wooblah.

[camelbird]

To Wooblah,
Roger to that and happy landings.

To Sayacayasamamu,
You have a point in what you said but this is PPrune so if you don't like it you can just log off. I can say what I want and you the same. Like Capt Wooblah, I respect his opinion and he mine, no problem there. But just because some of us are in kimchi land or wherever, that does not disqualify us from giving our opinion on any airline we like.
What more the airline that we were in for more years then your total flying hours.

[kamarulhitam]

Right on camelbird and wooby, we surely love your contribution here. As for sayacayasamalu, pergi main jauh jauh like bunga!

[Sireh]

Hi kamarul, even though sayacayasamalu is real arsey it would be fair that he be allowed to air is views. However I wonder how he come to the assumption that posters on this thread are from kimchiland. As an expert phisherman as someone alluded to, maybe you can sniff out something!

[sayacayasamalu]

wooby
You just made a threat to fix someone in his base check just for having opposing views.You preach the moral high ground to debate issues and not carry extra baggage into the fltdeck.You have only manage to exposed your true colors and lump yourself into the same basket as some poor soul you have classified as a kondehless lowlife.

[Mat Tongkang]

Some poor soul indeed, poor louse maybe!

I ain't ikan tongkol. But all this is getting to be an interesting spat. Keep it coming guys.

[Oyster Shucker]

Being an occasional PPRuNer, but nevertheless a seasoned observer, I must say that I agree more with Wooby's and Camelbird's different views, whereas this sayasamasayamalu guy is defensive and would stick his head in the sand rather than try to understand history and accept constructive criticism of the airline and the existing destructive culture which persists.

Quote "a purblind oligarchy that flatly refused to see that history was condemning it to the tong sampah". Sayasamasayamalumalu is a typical example.:ugh:

Also, I believe Capt Wooby merely reminded you that your assumptions may not be correct and that he may still be in MAS, and not only that, he may also be your instructor/check/training or line. I do not see any threat being made by his statement. The only threats are in the insecure mind of yours.

Quote "How do you know I won't be doing your next base check."

Open up your mind and have the courage to accept criticism and effect a change.


:)

[jakals]

:Doister
i too am a reluctant poster.I find your critism of sayaca.....a bit skewed.He onlly responded to a highhanded response from capt wooblah which is a very direct and clear statement .However you have chosen to twist and turn an paint CAPT W as a saint and sayaca..... as the mentally insecure agressor.I find sayaca... a breath of fresh air amid all the stale condemnation floating amongst the active participantsof this forum who are desperately trying to silence him.GO ON, SAYA BETUL 2 CAYA SAMA LOO....

[ngapsayot]

me thinks oyster's got it right; the apologists for the miscreants in MAS are fighting back. Wooby's certainly a not a saint but has some posts enlightening the younger set about the malaise plaguing MAS and Malaysian aviation theatre. Remember there are a lot of low lifes who profitted greatly through the misdeeds of the patrons and are now coming out of hiding to defend the past/present patrons. Over the last 10 to 15 years I have seen and sense enough!

[Geragau]

Heard from some mosquitos that charma and oh oh wan are trying to find out who are guys posting on pprune. So guys lets start more rumours to wind these fellas up!

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Oyster has got it right,

It is the insecure twats here that have twisted my words. Yes it is true I am no saint and yes I have made many mistakes in my career. But I believe I have learned from all of them and that has made me a better pilot and person.

In all the years I have been in training I have yet to fail anybody. Infact I believe that a good trainer can teach a monkey to fly. Merely because he is patient and recognises the students weaknesses and concentrates on repeating such exercises until confidance is restored. And believe me I have turned a few monkeys into pilots in my career.

Wooblah. :=

[ngapsayot]

I don't think any of those blokes in SEL are interested in posting here. They have moved on and I am sure they reckon most who remain are so attached to our mothership that we cannot be weaned off. Met one on transit in KUL; the feeling I get is that most are plainly oblivious to the going ons in MAS.

[Oyster Shucker]

Good luck in your phishing trip, hope you'll catch a few..:).

It is very sad to see the slow destruction of pay and conditions @MAS particularly, airlines all over in general, compounded by the meteoric rise of AA, but conversely opportunities are sprouting up elsewhere.

EK has been the talk of the town for many years and the are still growing. The recent announcement by EK is testimony to their commitment to be bigger, better, stronger if not the best. They certainly have the $$$$$ssss. With oil set to go above and beyond the USD$100 mark, reserves in UAE running out in 20-30yrs, they have no choice but to strike when the iron is hot.

LARGEST EVER CIVIL AIRCRAFT ORDER
EMIRATES MAKES AVIATION HISTORY – AGAIN

· Orders 120 A350s, 11 A380s, 12 Boeing 777-300ERs

· Total order value worth over US$34.9 billion

· Largest-ever aircraft order in civil aviation

· Will be world’s largest operator of the A380s and Boeing 777s

DUBAI, U.A.E., 11th November 2007 – Emirates Airline today announced another historic civil aviation aircraft order, when it signed contracts for a 120 Airbus A350s, 11 A380s, and 12 Boeing 777-300ERs, worth an estimated US$34.9 billion in list prices.

HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, Emirates’ Chairman and Chief Executive, announced the massive order at the 10th Dubai Airshow; and signed the contracts with Tom Enders, Airbus President and CEO, and Lee Monson, Vice President Middle East and Africa Sales, Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

The agreement with Airbus comprises firm orders for 50 A350-900s and 20 A350-1000s, plus 50 options for the A350-900s. The first A350 will be delivered to Emirates in 2014.

Emirates also firmed up orders on the eight A380s for which it had signed letters of intent earlier this year, and placed firm orders for an additional three of the double-decker aircraft, bringing its total firm order for the A380s to 58.

The contract with Boeing is for 12 firm orders of the 777-300ERs, valued at US$3.2 billion. With this new order, Emirates now has 57 Boeing 777s pending delivery and is set to become the world’s largest 777 operator in the next few years.

Sheikh Ahmed also inked agreements today with Sir John Rose, Chief Executive of Rolls Royce for the Trent XWB engines to power Emirates’ new A350s; with Bruce Hughes, President of the Engine Alliance for the GP7200 to power its additional A380s; and with Scott Donnelly, President and CEO of GE Aviation for GE90 engines to power Emirates’ 777-300ERs.

In total, Emirates’ firm aircraft and engine orders announced today are worth US$23.4 billion – a value that increases to US$34.9 billion if the 50 options are included. This is the largest-ever aircraft commitment in civil aviation made by any airline in a single order.

Sheikh Ahmed said: “Emirates is committing close to US$35 billion today for new aircraft. Our total order includes 93 aircraft on firm order and 50 on option. Once again, Emirates is making aviation history.”

Emirates’ total order book now stands at 246 aircraft, all wide body, and worth over $60 billion US dollars. This is a massive investment which reflects our confidence in the future of air transport, and our confidence in Dubai.”

He added: “In 2003, our plan was for Emirates to have 100 aircraft by 2010. We have already surpassed that target. Growth and demand has exceeded the most optimistic projections. Dubai is investing billions to secure its future as a leading centre for business, tourism, and air transport on the global stage. Likewise, Emirates is investing in a fleet for the future, in order to support Dubai’s development, as well as the growth of air travel demand around the world.”

The new aircraft we have ordered today are all of the latest technology – they are greener and more efficient to operate. At the same time, they will allow Emirates to continue setting the gold standard in service. We intend to invest millions of dollars more to develop cutting-edge in-flight products to match our cutting-edge aircraft fleet.

Cathay Pacific places order for 17 more new aircraft
8 November 2007

Cathay Pacific Airways today announced its biggest-ever direct-purchase commitment for new aircraft, placing firm orders for 10 Boeing 747-8 Freighters and a further seven Boeing 777-300ER passenger aircraft directly from the Boeing Company. The airline has also taken up purchase rights for another 14 of the new freighter type
http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/aboutus/pressroomdetails?refID=343ef4dc48e16110VgnVCM10000010d21c39_ ___

Cathay can get ALL 30 x 777-300er delivered by 2012...

OPPORTUNITIES ABOUND


What started in MAS when TR ( Sell Com ) took over was very unfortunate and it has exposed the knowledge gap and weaknesses within MAPA and MAS pilots group as a whole. The smart ones are very smart indeed but also very selfish. In general, people are kiasu and will always look after themselves and their families first. No martyrs here and one is not likely to come along. In this case, Nikki, Pygmy and gang have done what comes naturally. I am not saying that it is right, but it is what they have done. Others that will eventually take along will probably do the same. It's the culture. No Captain Walker to take you to Tomorrow morrow land..You have to venture out and make your own luck and jump on the opportunities that are available.

Camel arrogantly said in one his memos, ".if you are not happy, there is one down south and a few up north". Since then many XMAS have done the country proud by proving their worth on the world stage. Not just "jagoo campung" but "All England" too. :ok: Some misinformed, ignorant malaise see this as not playing the Patriot Game but this way of thinking is backwards, obtuse and and sheltered.

So where have all these people gone to ? I know there are more than a few in Kichi kichi mamma land, the not so fragrant harbour, the sterile duty free shop, up and down under, Bollywood,the Dunes and possibly at the circus where the birds feed.

So my point is, the flip side of what's happening is not that bad. It's not the best scenario one would hope for our proud national airline but when you think about the bigger picture, it ain't that bad dudes. Congratulations to our boys and girls for being World’s Best Cabin Staff in the World Airline Survey conducted by airline auditor Skytrax and Leading JC in Asia!!!:D:ok:

One has to be bold and courageous to take on small mental challenges being away from the beloved homeland. Human kind from every race have done it the past quite successfully and it is not a new thing.

We see it all the time in the places we visit and stay. Just look at your own back yard and see what you see. I think it is quite amazing how the oran puti have successfully left their small, tiny, mighty island to conquer the world. They are still "brothers", have special diplomatic and military relationship that goes beyond "No Action Talk Only" group, and help each other out some 300 years out. Some have built the own towns marked by gates with pretty little lions and dragons that have become a tourist attraction of their own. You can find hole in the wall take aways even in the remotest part of South America, Europe, Africa and Austrasia..amazing!! Curries and chutnies have become the number dish at the round table. Fish and Chips is great but Chicken Curry and Chips....yummm.

However, the are too few Austronesian Malaysian that can be seen around the world/ in airlines around the world. As said by Ngapsayot, can't be weaned off mummy maybe, don't know and not sure why. Anyone? anyone? Bueller? I have a theory but I'll wait.

What is patriotism anyway? Some say that these smart and obviously capable XMEN are unpatriotic and traitors to their fellow countrymen. I say that's B.S. and only small minds think that way. Example of another one is Mr Jackal himself. He is so emotionally constrained growing up that he changed the context of the argument to suit his Mr Hyde. In his own words......sayaca.....a bit skewed. However you have chosen to twist and turn an paint CAPT W as a saint and sayaca..... as the mentally insecure agressorI wonder who really is projecting themselves as skewed, twisted and aggressive here? Again, Bueller?? and I'm painting Capt W as a saint? Really? Any comments anyone? Capt W? or Buller?? In you minds eyes maybe, because you are the projection of your words.
I find sayaca... a breath of fresh air.:bored: I do not find "H2SO4" a breath of fresh air...yuck...sick!!:eek: If you do, then good luck to you. Hang on a minute, I just did one.Ahh... that's better. I'm sorry you're not here to take a deep breath because boy, you missed out BIG time!! on the "fresh air" I just produced from eggs I had for brekky. Now where's that lavender spray??;)

desperately trying to silence him Sorry, say what? We are desperately doing that? Whoaa, this a forum, no one can do that except for Sotong. Pull yer head in young man, woman. How do you know I won't be doing your next base check:E or how do you know I won't appear in your scariest dreams...how do you know....Oh just shut up!! :oh: Ohioooo Krazy Glue, Gila Monster.:p:p

Anyway season greetings to all. Slamat Eid-Ul- Fitri, Thaipusam and Dewali just passed and XMAS, HEXMAS and happy New Year to everyone. Another day, another year had passed. Where has the time gone?? Kids grow up all too quickly....Oh, just shut up!!!!:ok:

How do we solve a problem like MAS ria?? Don't know. How can we solve our own,,, now maybe there's a clue.

OK, let me put on my flak jacket and shuck that Oyster.

Malaysia Zero Zero Wun, over to Rostov Kontrol..Goot Luck!!:ok:

[Oyster Shucker]

Fresh from my inbox, more good news for all qualified personnel!!!!

Come on you guys. Stop the grumbling and vote with your feet. By leaving for greener pastures,browner sands or whatever, you'll give your families better education etc, albeit different life and probably a pay rise for others who prefer to stay. It'll be a win/win situation for everyone. What are you waiting for?? Up the quals, tidy up your logbooks and get ready. Luck is when preps meet opportunity. Make your own.

Qantas to buy up to 188 aircraft


Qantas has handed down its biggest ever aircraft order, buying up to 188 narrow body aircraft for short haul flights in a move that will almost double its fleet.

The airline said the funding of the purchases won't affect its investment grade credit rating.
The new aircraft will be used to defend Qantas' minimum 65 per cent share of the Australian domestic market and to expand low cost services to South East Asia.
The plan also involves Jetstar opening new regional aviation bases in both Darwin and Perth over the next two years to serve fast growing Asian markets.
Most of the new aircraft will be Boeing 737-800s, and Airbus A320s.
The order also includes larger A321 aircraft, which will have up to 213 seats, compared with 177 on an A320 in a Jetstar single-class configuration.
The first aircraft to arrive in February will be an A321.
"We expect to take at least 17 of those aircraft to expand Jetstar's opportunities in its fastest growing markets," chief executive Geoff Dixon said.
Qantas will acquire 68 A320/A321 aircraft and has 40 options and purchase rights.
It will also buy 31 B737-800 aircraft, and has 49 options and purchase rights.
"The firm aircraft will be delivered over a six year period, while options secured additional delivery slots through to 2017," Qantas said.
Mr Dixon said: "This decision, together with existing A380 and B787 fleet commitments, secures an order stream for next generation aircraft that will allow the group to meet long term demand growth and replace older aircraft over the next decade.
"The plan provides maximum flexibility to respond to changes in the market and competitive situation.
"In an environment where our customers have more options than ever before, this investment will ensure that Qantas and Jetstar continue to provide customers with superior network reach, choice and product."
He said some of the Airbus aircraft would also be used to supply capacity to the group's Asian associates.
Qantas is preparing to receive its first superjumbo A380 aircraft in August 2008.
Jetstar will later launch the B787 Dreamliner to underpin the expansion of its low cost international services.
"We are confident that the orders we have placed provide the right aircraft, with the right product and right economics to ensure the continued success of Qantas and Jetstar both domestically and internationally," Mr Dixon said.
AAP

Qatar Airways Fleet

Qatar Airways flies one of the youngest fleets in the skies. Our fleet expansion is ongoing with a signed deal of $1.2 billion for two Airbus A380 "super jumbos" that will be delivered in 2009. We plan to more than double our fleet size to 110 aircraft by 2015. As part of our commitment to innovation and providing you with the very best, we have built a reputation of introducing new aircraft into our fleet and offer you the latest in-flight services.
In September 2006 Qatar Airways became the launch customer of the Airbus A340-600 High Gross Weight aircraft. Innovative onboard features such as dedicated First and Business Class lounges for passengers travelling in the premium cabins are specially designed for you to unwind and relax.
Qatar Airways will add 22 Boeing 777s to it's growing fleet starting November 2007 with deliveries extending out to mid-2010.
We have also become the first international airline in the world to introduce live digital satellite TV beamed direct to every passenger on their individual seatback TV systems at 35,000 feet

Etihad plans order of 'at least' 20-25 aircraft

Etihad Airways will issue an RFP next year for an aircraft order "of a good size," CEO James Hogan revealed to ATWOnline at the Arab Air Carriers Organization AGM in Damascus. The order will be for both short- and long-haul types and will be for "at least 20-25 aircraft," he said without revealing further details. "The order will cover in part the recycle needs of our current fleet and in part incremental requirements," he noted.
Hogan added that it is premature to conclude if Etihad will move toward an all-Airbus fleet. Its widebody fleet currently comprises 12 A330-200s, six A340s, five 777-300ERs and one 767-300. It just added its first three wet-leased A320s as part of a strategy to create regional connectivity through its Abu Dhabi hub feeding into its long-haul network. Three more A320s are expected by the end of the 2008 first quarter. In June it placed an order for four A340-600s, five A330 passenger aircraft and three A330 freighters.
Separately, Etihad announced it carried more than 3.3 million passengers during the first nine months of 2007 compared to 1.95 million for the same period in 2006, an increase of 70%. Load factor averaged 75% across its network of 44 destinations. It has launched eight new routes in 2007: Sydney, Brisbane, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Kochi, Thiruvananthapuram, Milan and Dublin. It will add its 45th destination on Oct. 28 with the launch of flights to Kathmand
See what I mean!!!!.

Everyday legacy airlines and LCCs expand rapidly. The real reason why airplanes fly is not the high/low pressure over the wing stuff or Newton's law of motion. It's $$$ and sense! Airline economics have changed and CEOs CFOs MDs GMs are getting greedier and smarter, whilst the travelling public, including yours and my families like cheap fares. Cheaper than ID90 and firms seats!! Back packers rule!!!!;) As they expand, the number of flight deck seats expand too. Shorter time pub crawling to "four bars".

Ryan Air and South West airlines have paved way for others to emulate. I understand their pilots are among the highest paid. So, life ain't too bad. Having said that, I'm sure some legacy carriers will still fly increased pool of premium business pax including others with high disposable income.

So, hello MAS, how is it? It's not all doom and gloom, quite sunny actually, jez have to go play outside.:):)

[jakals]

OYSTER DEERIE ,You are barking up the wrong tree.If you think senior mas pilots will leave due to all kinds of injustices or bags of money hanging on trees overseas ,you are dead wrong.They find the mudslinging and bitching just too spicy and are addicted to it .They are happy to wallow in the swamp cos money just cant buy all this sheeet.If you preach to the low time juniores or those running from the allongs you stand a much better chance of getting them to migrate to such places.This oldies will just growl and do headstands but end of the day back to the safe hands of mommy dearest.In short they rather shack up with the devil they know than the angel that is a stranger...

[ikan_terbang]

With all the major airlines deciding their future by placing orders for their airplanes, I have yet to hear MAS making any kind of decision on the A380, or B787 or even the replacement of the B737-400. Only ATR being named. With this kind of slow response in a fast moving AC buy/sell world, by the time they are ready to place the order, MAS will be so far behind the queue that they will miss the opportunity to make an impact on the market.....

[Oyster Shucker]

Make that 5 A340s to Etihad for now....

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=20384
Picture: DR

[Virtual Reality]

They are too busy distributing shares/swindle and what not among themself and ain't got any time to think of moving forward :{!!! Sad but true ....:ugh:

[chintanmanis]

Quite true sireh, quite true. Life is MAS is easy, comfy and if you are OK with the top brass you can get away with lots of incidents. Remember, fellas who lopped off wing tips not only escape with nary a slap on the wrists but bypassed their seniors for the 744. How nice can that get to be? So to leave MAS would be silly!!! Except for property in exclusive areas and expensive non Proton cars, cost of living is relatively low and the salary in MAS goes a long way in spending power.

[flightdeckXXX]

yeah, stay on with MAS. Guys, life is so goood in MAS. No need to look elsewhere. Be happy. No bitching.

[bungacengkeh]

flightdeckXXX...pls don't be so smug. With the declining greenback, your salary in kimchiland isn't going to be too great in the near future. With living in moderation and prudent spending the MAS widebody skipper's pay can go a long way. Besides we do not cheat on our fellow Malaysians...we PAY OUR TAXES!!! You guys make millions, do nothing but spoil the housing market, drive up inflation and make use of our lax tax laws at the expense of all the patriotic working Malaysians...shame, shame, shame

[taufupok]

Aiya bunga, a lot of my tax ringgits previously went to Mara types who never paid back loans, useless mega projects and paying for our Mara students who think that Mara and gomen money are all melayu money to be used for free. Who pays the highest taxes....the hardworking level headed patriotic MALAYSIAN from Malaysia. Those of the TM era mentality has the colonial melayu victim complex thinking the average MALAYSIAN owe them a living because their royal ancestors sold their heart, soul and ass to the orang putih colonialists. So don't get hot under the collar with your reptilian green eyes at the tax free incomes of the deserving ones.

[flightdeckXXX]

Bunga,
I do strongly agree with Cintan. Life in MH is so good. What's your problem...
But to hit hard onto the guys that have left, is uncalled for. The number of pilots left are just a handful. Thousands cross the causeway to Singapore to work, why not call them unpatriotic? You pay your tax where you earned. Millions that being sent back to the country does help Malaysia. Infact the gomen have Malaysia My Second Home for foreigner. Why? To boost up Malaysia's "eco no money".
Since you are the smartest guy knowing which direction the greenback is going, pls let me know. :{

[tuan74]

Patriotic...??? Hahaha....:{:{

Just by living and working in MAS you called yourself patriotic...???:yuk::yuk:

Saved me the arguments...:}

[Oyster Shucker]

Maybe I am barking up the wong twee!! but yer never know... as evident by the sporadic move of some senior and junior guys over the last ten years or so.

Life in Malaysia is quite comfortable for most I guess albeit conditions in MAS is severely eroding away. Vehicles, Home ownership, education, groceries and shopping is sooooooo expensive. How can you say the money goes a long way there. Keep dreaming bunga..

MAPA has little influence and the pilots group as a whole is weak.

Why make the ultimate decision as long as one is contented in some way.

The company and the government know this and will continue to exploit pilots goodwill until everyone has had enough and ready to make the call.


There isn't a big enough reason at the moment, and until then the same players will be contented with letting off some steam on this forum.

Is grumbling and whining going to change anything? I have my doubts. You might feel better though but you are just kidding yourselves.

The movement and migration of other races in the world is quite incredible and admirable.

Tough people go on and conquer the world.

Others stay behind with their 'sambal blacans', nasi everything, keretapi, special protection, scholarships, positions and power from the government.

This will not last forever and what will happen when the barriers come down?

If that's all that you guys want, then good luck dudes........you will need a lot of it.

[jakals]

There are plenty of shortcomings and screwups in day to day life in mas.But if you look at it positively you can run circles an take full advantage to benefit youselves.Efficient airlines run their pilots to the bone and make sure you sweat for your 100 dollar bills .You might earn a bit less in MAS but you also sweat much less and have a lower B,P.The trick is to stay away from all the politicking and find your own niche .Treat flying as a hobby and your hobbies as work .For example chicks ,golf or whatever turns you on.Believe me it works cos I done it for manny years.My only wish is MAS dont wisen up an get efficient thus ruining my heavenly lifestyle.
Move to sandpit or kimchiland.?............Noway JOSE***LG***(LIFES GOOD)

[Mat Tongkang]

Have to agree with jakals on this one. Done that for over 30 years, sadly nothing much have changed.

[Geragau]

For Chintan, jakals and fltdeck...all well and good in MAS and the salary goes a long way in tanahair. Inflasi is getting worse but with prudent jimat cermat measures, the skipper's gaji sure can stretch a long way. Alas, when the kids got to varsity age with some even some strong As but gomen did not allow them in the course they wanted we had to do twinning courses or overseas education for them.......now it hurts, even with the appreciating ringgit the cost of overseas ed is prohibitively high. Perubatan, kejuruteraan and othe plump courses more or less resab for the true soily bumis lah, even geragaus with bumi status find it hard to get in lah. So tax free dollars dirhams are beginning to look very alluring........

[Oyster Shucker]

:):) The trick is to stay away from all the politicking and find your own niche .Treat flying as a hobby and your hobbies as work .For example chicks ,golf or whatever turns you on.Believe me it works cos I done it for manny yearsI must say that I don't agree with your way of living dude. The idea of 'Sticking one's head in the sand', bodekking bosses, bribing schedulers, adjusting rosters through back the door.. You might as well pitch your tent at the office. I'm sure other people are aware of your intentions when you're there. "Oh, here's so and so..... wonder what he wants this time...". Doing everything to suit your roster I'm sure... See it all the time..It may not be apparent now, but one day you'll see...:)....man that'll bring you and the group down one way or another. You call it a "niche"....ha! It is the likes of you that everyone is bitching about.

It may be fun chasing girls now but be prepared when they show up at your front door or call your wife on the mobile one day:)..Tell me then, if Life's still Good. You may have been at this game for a while, so have most of us dude..nothing new but there must be a more deeper meaning to all this.

I don't treat my professional career as a hobby. In fact, I treat it very seriously at all times. There's always something new to learn....and to have that unachievable "perfect" flight....Hmmmm...makes it very interesting digging the books deeper.

Hopefully the paying passenger will be lucky to survive the flight when they unknowingly fly with you...the hobby pilot.:)

Most people also think about their kids education which is prohibitively expensive...but not you obviously because of the 'bumi' scholarships maybe...Keep praying that MAS and the country don't wisen up...In fact just keep praying. By the way you live your life...well,,,keep praying..:) for everything.:) Have to agree with D'Almari here.:ok:

Funny lah you..... :)you funny lah....:)

Done that for over 30 years, sadly nothing much have changed....Exactly my point but with a different way of looking at the problem.
“I really don't think life is about the I-could-have-beens. Life is only about the I-tried-to-do. I don't mind the failure but I can't imagine that I'd forgive myself if I didn't try.”
-Nikki Giovanni
In short, you'll have to effect change, can't just expect it.


Well, 'nuff said.

[WiraMelayu]

Wow, real serious talking here!

As for geragau, you are of bumi status but with the current strings of As many bumis are also entitled to places in the coveted courses. So the government has to choose; you win some, you lose some.

[jakals]

There you go again oister barking up the wrong tree.After all these years you have still not realized that mas is and will always be a flying circus.Better be like me up in the trapeeze act looking nice and pretty than being a disgruntled wild animal locked in a cage howling and growling for his rights and end of the day is only whipped and rewarded with a rotten piece of meat.
We are dealing with people lacking of possesiion of even a slither of integrity.What we have are crooks and vagabonds that no amount of education will ever rehabilitate.PERIOD.......I am not saying that we have to be like them but we have to be one up on them.
I love to live in malaysia and will continue to live here and will not be forced out of this blessed country just because we have a bunch of clowns running it in the name of justice,honour,fair play or whatever you want to call it.The system is rotten down to the core and there is just no way to surgically remove this cancerous growth.At best let it die a natural death.Even that doesnt cure the ailment cause its already in the genes and will reborn and be even more virulent next time round.
Moral of the story is you can play strip poker with this clowns but when it comes to the final item of clothing ensure the joker is always with you....AMEN

[JaguhDunia]

Jakals, oh Tok Guru of the " kaki relax ". Way to go, I sure agree with you. Be one up on them is the way to go BUT JUST DON'T DO YOUR OWN COLLEAGUES IN WHILST ACHIEVING THAT!!!:D

[Paishinel]

Jakals, you are right on the money. It's already in the genes, DNA and what have you.

[Oyster Shucker]

We have all had them before,

no matter where we are or what our goals may be:

detractors, glass ceiling syndrome mentalities,

people who tell us we can’t do it, and people who jump on each other

to reach the top of the cr@p heap.

Marcos, Estrada, Amin, TR, Pigmy, etc..they all rose to the top of the cr@p heap..just like you up there in the swing with a joker to save your as$..Hmmmmm. No thank you. By beating the crooks and vagabonds, aren't you being one yourself? The better crook maybe?
You can keep your circus, thank you very much. Been there in the dodol drums and quite happy out here in the wider world. By that I don't mean the web..;)

I've also received a couple of PMs from interested parties who are thinking about making the plunge. The call of 'a few up north and a couple down south" is still fresh in the minds of the dynamic few. Barking up the wong twee maybe,....maybe not. My target really is the few that are strong and adventurous enough to sample more of what you guys are missing out on.

Of course, I acknowledge that we are all different. "Some like it hot but they don't know how hot 'till they try" R. Palmer. So, to those who are happy and love it there, by all means...stay!!. Whinging and grumbling about this so and so, and that so and so, won't change a thing..Doing the same things over and over again whilst expecting a different outcome is crazy by definition. For goodness sake, we are flying now aren't we. Imagine what most people were saying about human flight not so long ago.

Your long haul bust AIP/AIC flight and duty time limits big time!! I know you guys get credited half the flight time on long haul routes whilst other airlines get full hours plus overtime!! Double to triple pay after 12/14 hours. Getting exploited then given some money for it, is not a payrise dudes. How about the legal implication? You guys don't accrue P1U/S hours for the purpose of getting command hours criteria as FOs are only P2 endorsed.To get P1U/S, you must be a P1 endorsed FO. All that cost savings is dangerous to the travelling public, don't you think?

Right hand seats ( First and Second Officers ) get paid more than your -400 Captain.What more a -400/380 Captain. Even CX sim intructors get almost $1M ringgit/yr. They are able to afford more life. By life I mean...anything!! Money is neutral anyways. It depends on what you do with it. You can increase your investment portfolio, be it shares, real estate, business, amanah saham, kebuns and dusuns??. More frequent family holidays,...skiing, touring USA,Europe and South America. Mountain climbing, cruzing, spending a couple of months in South France, owning your own aeroplane, private schooling for the kids,surfing, scuba diving, skydiving...man....there's so much more out there dudes/ dudettes..:) Just open up your minds a wee bit more. You'll hit a pole sooner or later stumbling with eyes wide shut.

Some try to console themselves by accepting that the cost of living there is cheap. I disagree. It is quite the opposite actually. After all we don't all just eat Roti Chanai and Teh Tarik for brekky or stay in the kampungs or wear sarongs...Noooo... everyone wants their Armani, Rolexes (even the girlfriend wants one....minimum gold strapped oysters);). Local and Japanese 2 liter cars for over a hundred grand??? Mad!! A six liter luxury car in the states is only $30G odd. $60Gs for Waja???How about the UK? UAE? even AUS? A bottle of Dom is how much again??? $900 bucks...Jeez... It's just over $120 in the states..How about cameras, Videos, TVs, Mercs, Bimmers, Shoes, Navbags, Ipods, Laptops, Pocket PCs, Phones, GPSs.....blah blah blah...the list goes on...... In short, you guys may be locals there but you sure don't live local. You can't stretch too much they stuff they pay you with. In this global age, our living is becoming very similar and you guys are so underpaid for doing the same job. Inflow (Global) must be greater than outflow (Global). Getting paid local and having to afford life (global) is opposite to the required equation.
Sadly, that is the reality that most accept. I did not, do not and will not.

Other than the weather (too warm and humid), the nyamuks that eat people alive, I too love the blessed country and do go back every couple of months or so for some R&R and great food!!:ok:. Family life is great and definitely up and up.

I too Contributed, Tried and left. :ok:
Pe pe je le, 'sal kan bahagia :O (picked that up whilst cutting my flying teeth, many seasons ago..)
Keep them PMs coming. Happy to point you the compass

[Mat Tongkang]

Aiya Oyster, money and all those nice things....good for you. However there are others who prefer a quiet, easy life. So get off your pulpit and not be so condescending. I have Rolex and Armanis too; but from Petaling Street and Golok? Piracy? Talk to the poor folks in sweat shops producing genuine Gucci, Nike etc and see how they ( as well as we ) slave for the first world gluttons in the name of free trade!!! Like wise you slave for your first/second world masters ( by proxy,maybe ) in probably posher environment under an illusory " better circunstances " but then it is still " fattening '' the goose for the pate!! Over in tanah air, it is the kucing kurap getting table scraps. That's the way " The Establishment ' in both the first world and third world work to keep the whole world in " organised chaos " for the ruling class to perpetuate their hold onto power.

[nostep]

Hot off the press:

Just heard that MAS is in Palenstine doing law exams for all new pilots for MAS Wings hmmmm I thought so many cadets and private pilots waiting in the system. No doubt to do with low pay I wonder if MAPA ,
if fact anyone knows?

[Geragau]

A cursory look into the Fragrant Harbour forum finds some ex MH people involved in some kind of power struggle and vendetta. Semi-private mail from MAPA forum was used to stir up ****. Another kind of MH/M'sian malaise. Likewise that's what I hear about MH blokes in EY and EVA. Over in Jet Airways and KAL I heard some formewr big guns were trying to upstage Richard in Mumbai. Not nice at all!!!!

[Mat Tongkang]

Aiyoyo...semua bhais like that lah. Capt beer, latuk g-tringh and all the charlie chappatis are like that. The stories you heard them bad mouthing others are sometimes so well woven that those who do not know these people well are so easily taken in. Many years ago at I.I's 50th birthday bash some bhai with some bollywood " star "( I believe someone say bollywood comforter! ) make wild pronouncements and bad things about his fellow colleagues.......well luckily some of us know about that piece of work, so we know it was unbelievable slander. I guess Capt beer learned well from the latuk and employ the same modus operandi!!!

As for RS, good luck and best wishes.

[Oyster Shucker]

;)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlw2EMpIYes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlw2EMpIYes)

[ngapsayot]

Word from the fairways where the bhai teed off that yoy m*****f**kers at MAS are very ungrateful; had he ( as MAPA prez ) not saved you guys from earlier Camel moves your lot could have been worse!!! He singlehandedly prevented melayunisation of MAPA...se what happen now, you lalangs!!

[Sireh]

Well ngap you must be talking about that creepy ex MAPA prez who someone referred to as g-stringh up in SEL. Now for a little old info most old timers know about; this so called kondehless bhai has equally diabolical " gurus ' not exposed yet namely "charma" and king arthur. They plotted a lot of the shenenigans in MAS and MAPA, besides doing despicable things to fallen colleagues and friends. Old timers may recall king arthur bedding a friend's wife moments the poor guy left for a nightstop flight..tralala la lalala; ala speedy gonzalez.
So capt beer must have also learnt a lot; now MAS pilots and MAPA members; find ou more and LEARN. Don't be ignorant and be led blindly. Get out of this malaise of tidak apathy.

[Geragau]

MAS pilots & MAPA members learn? I think not!
Signed for 1.5%+15, then voted kondehless bhai in who sold off pilots, then capt magic , then pigmy.........etc.
Then whine, curse, swear and then throw up arms in tidakapathy.

[JaguhDunia]

MAS was and still is a wonderful place to work in, notwithstanding the management and MAPA creeps whose shennenigans had been covered at length in previous posts and other related threads. Jakals is right; ignore the ****, play round the rotten system and be happy FOR YOUR OWN SANITY!

Generally management blokes and ambitious fly boys can't see beyond their own arses except for short term gains and cheap thrills of " wowing " neighbours and friends on their " positions/status ". Remember years ago some newspaper articles bout MAS " Boeing test pilots " on the B777 taking the old mamak to Aswan Dam? Well that was an example of cheap thrills that delight those " jaguh kampungs ".

If you can ignore those pathetic manoevres of equally pathetic " big league ' wannabes and the general malaise, get on your job and be happy with fairly decent gaji then MAS is indeed a nice place!

[ssangyongs]

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/8832/body3wx3.jpg

who is this guy? :ooh:

[ngapsayot]

DYMM Sri Paduka Baginda Altan Silap!

[Chrome]

Someone who's been on the RHS for far too long.

[ssangyongs]

do you think he's a MH pilot? Life FO

[Chrome]

Why are you asking us? And why did you put this up? I don't really care but I just don't think it's appropriate.

[ssangyongs]

the pic is just a tip of the iceberg. His pics surfaced on the net recently..all steamy pics, each with different girls (God knows if they're FAs)...that's why i ask if he's a MH guy..if he's one of the Malaysian Hospitality guys then he must bring a shame to the company. All the girls pics they look Malaysian..

i wonder if this guy is the one (Bhai)

[Mat Tongkang]

No, not the poondeh bhai. This one looks like a jamu powered stud, but alas the bhai is a dud!

[icemanfx]

What they were doing were between consented adults, none of others business.

Unless you are certain you are holier than him. What comes around goes around.

[ikan_terbang]

To the man in the pic.......I dont care who you are. Having different FA's in my arms would be a pilots dream.....I couldnt be bothered what he does.

[mohdawang]

Dream? Hahaha...nightmare looming amongst the dark reaches of your dreamworld!

This bhai you guys alluded to; is he the datuk in the Jet recruitment thread sometime back?

[chintanmanis]

Mohdawang, you must be referring to datuk g-string, ex-MAPA prez, Jet Airways honcho in the 90's and now with KAL where he scrapes engine pods!

[GlueBall]

Heard that you guys are going "Low Cost 5-Star", so no flat beds in business class, and no first class in the 772s nor in the Buses. Looks like Datuk Idris is cutting corners trying to make an extra buck. The B737 interiors are all ragged out. I feel sorry for all the hard working cabin staff who will be asked to make chicken salad out of chickensh!t. It's a sad story to see how one of the best asian carriers is getting mauled by short sighted management. :{

[bungacengkeh]

Idris has to do what he has to do. Cut off some fat and unnecessaries. MAS has to show some decent profits; you guys know that.

Chintan, is the datuk gstringh still scraping engine pods or masala bottoms with curry?

[GlueBall]

Idris appears to be doing a lot more than just cutting the fat at MAS, he's cutting corners in passenger service and he's changing the superlative 5-star product the carrier enjoyed 4 years ago.

Besides the worn out interiors of his 734 fleet, most of his 744s need paint jobs. I see, for example, that the "2007" of "Visit Malaysia Year 2007" cheatline is crudely painted over, like a handyman with a paint brush.

A colleague of mine recently had travelled KUL-AMS with final destination to ZRH. MAS had intentionally delayed the departure by 90 minutes to "wait" for a few late arriving connecting pax from its PER flight.

Needless to say, by accommodating those late pax MAS had saved some hotel costs, but it had propagated this delay into its AMS sector and screwed those pax who had subsequently missed their connecting flights at AMS.

To be sure, if ever MAS is to recover as a full service 5-star carrier, it will take years to undo the shortsightedness of the current management.

[Mat Sabo]

From Business Times report, MAS seem to be doing good. Are the goodies gonna be shared. End of March and April bonus?

[MasMamak]

Congratulations guys! Looks like bonus time....get the expectations up!

As for bunga, gstringh seem to be licking curry from masala bottoms, ie if you are referring to the bhai who used to be at Jet Airways.

[flightleader]

Since when th local papers say the truth?

[Geragau]

Idris Jala came across as fairly level headed and focussed in bringing about a new paradigm in MAS........the recent turn around in profits is testimony to his efforts. We should all give this bloke a chance and the company a new lifeline!

[chintanmanis]

Does anybody know how or where to get the transcripts of that interview? Check CNBC website but nothing.............

If Masmamak is right, RM851miilion is a lot of money and employees should look forward to sharing that bounty before it runs dry.

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

Yeah yeah,

Give a bumi a hand out and he is your new best friend. No wonder they call this boleh land.

Idrus has had a tough job fixing the bloody mess your last CEO made, just look at the mess of your 330's let alone the crap you don't see in the accounts.

Wooblah.

[Oyster Shucker]

Yo!,

Change is the only constant..

Lim, after his swearing-in as the new Penang Chief Minister on Tuesday, told reporters that the DAP-led state government would not practise the New Economic Policy (NEP). To the slackers that thinks life's always good,... take heed....:p

[bungacengkeh]

Idris Jala has only been around for 2 years or go....he's trying his level best to deal with a whole load of issues. Whether he succeed or not depend on how far MAS employees allow him to develop his corporate management and day to day running of the airline. As someone with no airline background ( even though Shell has an airwing ), it takes time for him to come to grips with the rot in MAS.
As for the ex MAS blokes who keep on sniping at our CEO, bear in mind that you guys contributed to the mess in MAS too....leaving when the company needed you most, not paying back your bond money when you broke the bonding agreement, double dipping when seconded to Jet Airways, etc. Dr Don went after Tajuddin with a corruption charge, he should also go after the bond breakers who refused to pay and the double dippers too!

[JaguhDunia]

Idris needs more time and should be given the chance to prove himself. He needs to get rid of the buffet train that feeds the fat cats that have all the contracts with MAS; restructure the airfare to cut off the filthy profits that goes to the GSAs. Lots and lots of things to do.......one more thing, kick out pilots who think the world owes them a living!

[Geragau]

A skipper once told me; the only way to stop the rot in MAS is to close down operations, sack everyone and rehire on merit. The whole organisation stinks of gangrene and truly needs radical surgery!