Homeland security- UK style

[stickmonkeytamer]

I've just been speaking with some American collegues and they were telling me about how they are proudest when they are helping civilians back in the US when they have some kind of natural disaster or internal security threat.

This got me thinking: apart from the SAR crews doing a great job when middle England was submerged (can't wait to get back from the sandpit to see if my house is still where I left it, or a few miles downstream...) and the troops going out and searching for missing people in woodland, should we not just concentrate our efforts on protecting our own country rather than ones who do not even want us there?

We (the military) should be patrolling for our own internal terrorists in our own country, rather than failing to find them in other countries we are in. Shouldn't we just be making our country safer.

I'm not an objector to the "skirmish" we are all taking part in, I'm just raising an issue that has possibly not been looked into yet. Where would the British people want us if they had control. I believe that as voters, they do...

Just a thought...:ugh:

SMT

[Evalu8ter]

SMT,
"We (the military) should be patrolling for our own internal terrorists in our own country, rather than failing to find them in other countries we are in. Shouldn't we just be making our country safer."
We did 30+ yrs of patrolling a certain province of our country looking for terrorists....rarely made the front page though..
Plus, the SH force have spent many hours doing humanitarian stuff after floods, snowstorms and terrorist atrocities (eg Lockerbie / Air India 747)
Plus, the RN drug interdiction campaigns...
Plus all the ceremonial the army do...
Oh, and don't forget the TypHoon at airshows....
It's a miracle we've got anything left for our "ethical foreign policy"!

[Fortyodd2]

A few years back, just before I left the services there was a serious flood in one of the local villages. The village also happened to be in the middle of the local Low Flying Areas and, as such, generated quite a few complaints about noise etc. Myself and a few colleagues went to the Squadron Commander and asked why we were not deploying our troops, big 4 wheel drive trucks, tents, radios and helicopters to said village to assist with the evacuation, filling sandbags, making cups of tea, etc, etc. Not to mention the opportunity of putting an end to noise complaints for some time The reply was no - “because there are no funds for that sort of thing, it’s a local authority problem and besides, we cannot waste flying hours on non-essential tasks”. :ugh:
That evening, one of the elderly residents of said village who had lost pretty much all of her belongings appeared on national TV saying “I can’t believe that the Army has not been sent to help us – they are always coming round here at all hours in their noisy helicopters yet when we need them they are nowhere to be seen”.
It was one of the things that made my mind up to leave. If the Armed Services cannot serve those who pick up the bill for their wages when they need them most is it any wonder that the general public in the UK have turned their backs on them.

[OCCWMF]

Er. Police. Force. ?

:confused:

[Pontius Navigator]

The answer lies within the MAC rules - military aid to the civil power. We cannot offer as this might be construed as an offer with no costs attached.

Fresco was a case in point. Not a pen was lifted without a bill being raised on the ODPM. Admittedly there was a lot of welfare stuff slid through but it is all about Resource Accounting.

Not my budget so :mad: off.

Now when it really cut, many years ago a couple of girls went missing in the Cairngorms, low level, in winter, with lots of snow. The police asked and Lossie raised lots of volunteers all prepared after a days walk for a night march. In the end they were found and we were not needed.

But the call came from the civil power first. Sad but true.

Now with the new homeland security supremo maybe Adml West will change all that.

[Double Zero]

I misread that at first glance, " Adam West looking after home security "

With Batman on board it must be a winner, and being a billionaire he might waive his fees.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

The Welsh Assembly explain the system quite well on the Resilience website http://wales.gov.uk/resilience/other-responders1/military/?lang=en . This is a similar process to that in England and Scotland but not so easily findable.

Apart from RAB and hard charging, calling in the Military can often be interpreted as "can't cope". Not a key to personal advancement within the Civil Authorities or Powers.

[Wader2]

Apart from RAB and hard charging, calling in the Military can often be interpreted as "can't cope". Not a key to personal advancement within the Civil Authorities or Powers.


It would be nice to think we could have a bit of joined up government with single line resources rather than civil military duplication, after all the expenditure ultimately comes from the same pot and reduced capital expenditure would save money.:)

Ooops, I forgot, we are pared to the bone and have no irreducible spare capacity.:bored:

[brickhistory]

The answer lies within the MAC rules - military aid to the civil power. We cannot offer as this might be construed as an offer with no costs attached.


It is very similiar for us, the US military.
While a governor 'owns' his state's National Guard assets, he pays any costs associated when he calls them out.

For any active duty or to federalize, i.e. put under federal authority, the Guard, the call for help must come from the civil authority otherwise, the military picks up the bill.

This is partly to blame for our Katrina debacle. The states involved were slow in asking for federal help.

So, not so different after all.

[JTIDS]

The job of the armed forces is to protect citizens against the enemies of the state...

...after a while when you start using them as a police force the enemies of the state rapidly turn out to be the citizens themselves...

[coolblackcat]

Well, this happens with all sorts of situations.
For example; People prefere to help third world hunger, and pay money towards African and South American help organizations, when there is lots of poverty in the country they live in.
More British people care about an African kid, than a poor British kid.

Don't get me wrong; it IS kind and caring to help the African kid, and I greatly respect people who worry about him.

The problem is that helping the African kid is more popular than helping the British kid. As the African kid is on our TVs, and in our newspapers, we worry about him more than we do about the British kid, who isn't on TV.

This shows you how much power the media has.

Ever wondered why some (many, should I say) people are scared of flying, and no one is scared of driving? It's because aircraft crashes are on TV, while car crashes aren't. When thousands and thousands more people die in car crashes then in aircraft crashes per year.

Matt D. Lewis

PS: The African kid/British kid parts are metaphores (for those who don't realize)