US R/T differences

[Gingerbread Man]

Can anyone direct me at a good source of information for the differences between UK and US radio terminology? I'm going out to Florida in a couple of weeks and all being well i'll be flying myself (under instruction I should add) out of the International Airport, so I wanted to be up to speed on the lingo. Cheers.

Ginger ;)

[SkyHawk-N]

This is a good reference site. There's also lots of other useful info on there, not all just for the US

http://www.geocities.com/cfidarren/rf-radiocomm.htm

You'll get the chance to say things like "Three in the green" and "request the option" :ok:

[gcolyer]

I would not worry about the differences. UK RTF will work over there. Some fo the common differences are as follows:

1) The circuit is the pattern.

2) When you are holding short ready to depart you can decalare you are ready for take off rather than departure.

3) Instead of asking for FIS ask for VFR flight following.

[youngskywalker]

I got caught out by the following instruction:

Twr: N.... into position and hold
Me: didnt have a clue, I heard the word 'hold' so i did just that

Into position and hold = Line up and weight in the UK.

Also the rate of speech from some US controllers can be quite daunting and they tend to give you loads of instructions in one sentence, mainly because they simply don't have the time to break them up into 2 or 3 different instructions like you tend to get here.

[DaveW]

There's a book called "VFR Radio Procedures in the USA" if you're concerned about it.

Available for about £8 from the usual sources.

[BackPacker]

I wrote something about this as an addendum to the "JAA PPL in US" thing I wrote. It's one of the stickies in the Private Flying forum.

Position and Hold vs. Line up and Wait has been mentioned. The other things is conditional landing clearances: "You are number three behind the Warrior on base and the Cessna on short final. Cleared to land."

Read up on what "Flight Following" exactly means and how to request it. It's a bit better than a RIS. Also read up on how to make the best use of WX-BRIEF.

[StillStanding]

Another tip - try listening to live feeds from US ATC units at
http://www.liveatc.net/
Select Class D airports where there is likely to be some GA traffic.

[acebaxter]

Line up and wait, position and hold is the biggest one. Also, all transition levels are 180 assuming you have the altimeter setting to support it. Probably won't matter for your instructional flight though. Another thing I miss is the ATC ability. When you are in radar contact and switch controllers they already know who you are, where you are, what you are etc. The only thing they need from you is call sign and altitude/fl. Saves a lot of radio chatter.

Have fun and enjoy the States.

three in the green? In 25 years of flying in the States I don't think I ever said that. At some military/civilian airports the tower will say confirm gear down. I always assumed it was a requirement for military ops that was just applied to the civil aviation as well. My standard response was negative as the switch was made before gear down was called for in our op specs.

[SkyHawk-N]

three in the green? In 25 years of flying in the States I don't think I ever said that. At some military/civilian airports the tower will say confirm gear down.

Yes, mainly at airports where the ATC is run by the ANG/Military.

ATC: 'Check gear down, cleared to land 26"
Pilot: 'Three in the green, cleared to land 26" (even said it when flying fixed gear aircraft! :O)

also

Pilot: 'Skyhawk 1234E requests the option'
ATC: 'you have the option' or 'cleared for the option'

[slim_slag]

....i'll be flying myself (under instruction I should add) out of the International Airport...The major difference for departure from larger airports in the States as opposed to small ones is you will get to talk to Clearance Delivery.

So listen to ATIS as normal, but they will have a frequency for CD, who you call up next. Tell CD the usual who you are, where you are, what you want (to go somewhere VFR) etc and they will give you a clearance, basically much the same as you will get when flying IFR, without the clearance limit.

So use CRAFT (look it up) but you don't get the C. Get ready to write it down.

e.g. fly runway heading (Route), Altitude <=1000, departure Frequency xxx.xx, Transponder xxxx.

Then call ground, say you have spoken to CD, and they will give taxi instructions and clearance to somewhere. Usually you then taxi to run up area (not called a hold), do run up, contact tower then (unless told otherwise by ground/atis). Tower will clear you onto the runway, then clear you to depart. Both will already know all about you because you spoke to CD.

After taking off, fly your 'clearance'. Next you will probably hear from tower is 'Contact departure, have a nice day'. You contact Departure (who knows all about you) giving call sign and altitude only. They will have further instructions.

Smaller airports don't have this (except the very, very busy GA class D's dotted around the place)

Coming back, listen to ATIS 40 miles out, then call approach telling them you have information xxxxx where xxxx is the ATIS identifier. Then you will be just brought in under radar control. Very simple.

What everybody else said holds true too. Listen on the web.

[bean_ian]

Also they dont use QNH or QFE. They would say something like "Altimiter 29.92".

[gcolyer]

Also they dont use QNH or QFE. They would say something like "Altimiter 29.92".


Wrong. They don't use QFE, which means they only use QNH (unless you are flying FL's)

It is however true that you might be given the pressure setting in Inches of mercury rather than millibars or hectopascals.

[bean_ian]

Wrong. They don't use QFE, which means they only use QNH (unless you are flying FL's)

Sorry, I was referring to the terminology used, obviously they use some form of pressure setting!

[englishal]

Altimeter will be in inches "Altimiter 29.92"

The other things is conditional landing clearances: "You are number three behind the Warrior on base and the Cessna on short final. Cleared to land."
Or you may get a "Cleared to take off, cleared to land" if you're doing circuits:)

Clearance Delivery can be very useful - VFR and IFR. Often (when VFR) you just contact them tell them your details and they get you to contact ground for taxy and that is it, - they just want to know about you. But if you want you can call clearance and request "VFR flight following to XXXX at 5500' from runway 30" on the ground. This great as you'll get a transponder code and departure frequency on the ground before you taxy. You may get a brief clearance like "climb straight ahead to 500', left turn 200 degrees". When you take off tower will tell you to "contact departure" which you do and they radar identify you, and there you go, VFR flight following all the way to your destination from 500'. You stil navigate VFR but you're being followed.

[gcolyer]

englishal

Whilst flying in the states I have been given altitude in Inches, millibars and hectopascals.

I have only flown in Florida and New York though. In New York I was given inches and once hectopascals. In Florida it has always been millibars.

[gcolyer]

Socal

I have only been cleared for the option whilst on Finals. I take it if you are down wind and numer 3 you will get told "Callsign you are number 3 cleared for the option" otherwise it could get very confusing and dangerous.

[englishal]

Just to clarify SoCal's point....In my experience you taxy with ground and do the run-up while on the ground frequency....I then switch over to the tower without requesting anything or waiting to be told to switch and taxy to the hold short line on the tower frequency. Sometimes I'll call ready for departure while taxying to the hold short line if I want a quick departure, it looks quiet and pre-take off checks are complete.

[slim_slag]

Agree with Al. Should really stay on ground freq until ready to ask for permission to enter the runway, or unless instructed otherwise. No harm monitoring tower on the other radio as it gives awareness of what's going on in the air. Ground might need to talk to you at any time so you really should stay with them until ready to talk to tower.

Nothing dangerous about being cleared for the option at any stage, controllers know what they are doing, they can change your clearance if they want. If you think something is wrong then ask.

[dublinpilot]

Am I correct in thinking that "Cleared for the option" translates as "cleared to do a full stop landing, or cleared to do a touch and go, whichever you prefer"?

dp

[gcolyer]

Thats correct dublinpilot. It is almost as nice as Flight Following.

[slim_slag]

dublinpilot,

you are also cleared for a 'stop and go' which is subtlely different from a full stop which is usually taken to mean leave the runway after landing. You can use a 'stop and go' for night currency without the hassle of a taxi back. Of course you need a long enough runway, but most in the US are plenty long enough.

[dublinpilot]

Thanks guys.

[david viewing]

Something to be sure that you understand is the '45 deg join'. It's quite well described in the FAR/AIM, but I'm surprised how many UK pilots who have flown there don't seem to understand it. What the FAR/AIM doesn't mention is the common use of VRP's for joining, often at 2 mi 45 deg to the downwind abeam the tower. Studying the chart will often reveal these VRP's before you get there so that you can be primed for a possibly unintelligible place name that the controller says.

[Gingerbread Man]

Sorry for the late acknowledgement, but thanks very much for the replies everyone, I appreciate it. I ordered some charts to get used to the area and was horrified to discover they're not laminated as standard like the ICAO ones. Guess that'll be pencil then.

Cheers

Ginger ;)

[englishal]

horrified to discover they're not laminated as standard
Which is MUCH better ;)

Laminated charts are a pain and hard to fold, and as the FAA ones expire every 56 (?) days it is no biggie. Also I use one of those "magic" pens to draw my route. One side is like a highlighter, the other end is an eraser so when you draw over the marks with the eraser end it disappears. (actually saying that, since starting to fly G1000 aeroplanes I don't bother drawing on the paper map any more ;))

[dublinpilot]

Laminated charts are a pain and hard to fold, and as the FAA ones expire every 56 (?)

They charts expire every 6 months or so. It's the facilities directories that expire every 56 days.

[Gingerbread Man]

Well I arrived back on Monday after a week in Florida at Ormond Beach. 20 hours got me a PPL revalidation checkride, an FAA multi rating and a UK night rating (CAA instructor was over there with me), which seemed like good going. Granted the multi will be pretty much useless over here unless I win the lottery, but it will stand me in good stead for ATPL training when/if I get there. Also it was great fun to fly a 'proper' aircraft with foldy wheels and two throttles.

As for radio, well it was easy as anything, I shouldn't have worried. I did enjoy being cleared for landing and take-off each time, as I rarely fly from fully controlled fields in the UK. Equally pleasing was a regional airport tower that had a radar picture, weather station and ATIS rather than just a walkie-talkie and a windsock. The transition from Seminole to C152 every day (multi in the day, single for night) was tricky at first as they required completely different styles of landing. To top it all off I got to take a 172 into Orlando Sanford to catch the flight home :) . Great experience and very interesting.

Ginger ;)

[gfunc]

Hey Guys,

I've been flying in the US for a few months after finally getting round to dusting off my old poo brown book. I picked a book entitled "The pilot's radio communication handbook" by Paul Illman - you can get it off a website named after a south american jungle. Its a bit pricey ($35), but with the current exchange rate is well worth it.

I recommend it since it is one of the few books that go into depth about multicom, unicom and flight service stations which I found are the things that are most different over here. Who would of thunk you can transmit on one frequency and get a reply listening to nav1!

I found this book well written, easy to follow and also gives a nice overview of US airspace to boot. The only thing it can't help you with is the "Noo Yawk" controllers who sayeverythingveryfastandwithoutanykindofpause.

Cheers,

Gareth.