PDA

View Full Version : The demise of Dragonair


the hidden
15th Jul 2007, 05:57
from Dictionary.com

Dragon: Bible. a large animal, possibly a large snake or crocodile
snake : a treacherous person; an insidious enemy

My predicament with my employer, Dragonair is becoming incredibly frustrating, galling and verging on infuriating. I think the word im looking for is corporate stagnation. Stagnation by Ka policy makers to deal with the impending dissolution of Ka by Cx.

Ka flt ops management are inept at best. They are Yes men, but not thinkers or doers. Picked for their sycophantism, they are ostensibly chasing their tails to make their CX masters happy. We as flight crew are overwhelmed by the ill thought out introduction of ostensibly CX procedures. How often must we be told that as of this or that date, we will not do what we have been quite happily doing for years, but adopt a totally different approach. Then to be told 2 weeks later that as nobody understands the new procedures, there will be a delay to resolve the confusion. But you will comply and not complain with what we write, by order of the der management

We have had so far this year a rushed introduction of CX flt planning, with inadequate support. We have now no engineering support outside HKG, unless you manage to radio the poor engineers who are on duty that day, overworked and facing an imminent dismissal by Ka if flt ops management adopt engineer "on call" .The guys are often tired after 18 hours duty, and who can blame them. Next is ACARS performance data access, of which is all self briefing. Self abuse I think. Do we have any groundschool in Ka anymore? What happened to a day off free of duty, Ka are abusing this, making everything "self briefing". Will I self brief my next type course?

We have a 2% pay offer. But removal of overtime. We have more managers, but greater crew disillusionment. Its not commands, or lifestlyes that matter so much as believing that you belong to a worthy cause, something that is a job well done. Alas, I cant think of the last time I felt that I had that warm fuzzy feeling about working here. My career is stale, moving no where. We had expansion, now its repetition of routes and destinations. For gods sake Xian twice daily and Fuzhou? 20 times a day to Shanghai, what happened to that eggs in one basket that Ka was so woefully exposed to after SARS? We have now been informed that Cx will be removing the 3 longhaul A330s for their own use, but what of the Ka crews? This may explain the recent cancellation of the A330 command course, despite several resignations and movements of Crew to the 747-4. Next command course, Nov, then who knows or cares. Its good our managers are out to preserve their god like positions, Cx is coming, and they will be ruthless. We the MFO, MA CP MLO CTC, our entourage and umpteen assistants, must be unctuous but be seen to screw those meddling pilots. A group we profess to be from, but memories are short, we are out for number one. And that's not Ka.

Ok, so to move on? Ha Ha not easy for an old sod like me. And to where, im already in Lo Co China style. I would certainly wish I had made my choice to join a major carrier rather than come to the stalemate of airlines. A little longer to LHS in EK, but hey I might live long enough not to suffocate on corporate stifling, and like Hong Kong itself, incremental intoxication from mainland effluent.

For those interested in joining Ka, consider your options, there are many. Don't come with the short term view of "I will get my command or rating and leave" . Its difficult, time waits for no man or pilot. Choose wisely, its you life, don't make it theirs.

555orange
17th Jul 2007, 14:34
I like your post. Informative. I thank you, as I have been considering returning to Hong Kong lately as I enjoyed being in Asia a few years ago. I have been reading all over the prune to get info and most of it is useless. Some guys complaining about private schooling and paying too much taxes?? What?? Excuse me...where are the taxes cheaper and not on a contract? But the info your providing is what I really needed. I want a real feeling for the company and the working conditions. That is where the difference between being happy and not happy really matters. It is a well paying job comparitively speaking....but that little bit extra may not bring you happiness at the expense of an unhappy work life. Anybody else got more experiences to dissuade some prospectives?

Flap 5
17th Jul 2007, 16:06
Interesting post. I left Dragon some years ago. I could say I saw this coming, but that kind of comment only attracts the sceptical. As an 'A' scaler it was difficult to leave at the time. The money was good.

With the introduction of te 'B' scale in '93 things were bound to go downhill. Those joining on the 'B' scale couldn't see what us 'A' scalers were worried about. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

Gradually Manager Personnel whittled away at us. We mostly ignored it for a while. We just got on with our job. DPA committees came and went as people on them got fed up with banging their heads against a brick wall. Now it is too late.

cpdude
17th Jul 2007, 19:40
CX is doing the same thing and pilot shortage or no shortage...they don't care!

mairyhinge
18th Jul 2007, 03:06
Dpa commitee members came and went........... to management !

And Then
18th Jul 2007, 03:33
And then they went to HK Report.

Some hot rumours about pilot integration on the table being initiated by CX.

Saturn
18th Jul 2007, 03:40
I hear you and feel you brother but for what it is worth lots of decent work out there. If you need some help, I have a lot of contact info so PM me if you like. I have been contacted in the last month to go fly; B744, B777, A300/310, L1011, 767 and 737. Good pay and conditions. I believe there is a shortage of crew worldwide. For god's sakes even Swiss is hiring again and the old Sabena (Brussles Airlines). You can stay and take the beating or make your life more livable which I think what is now going on at both CX/KA. Good luck.:ugh:

Pollution IV
18th Jul 2007, 04:36
A KA/CX Pilot integration plan is essential. Dragonair's development has been completely nobbled by the CX takeover. If there are no new opportunities for KA in the immediate future, then many will not stay and who would want to join??

A decent payrise is required, however, this needs to be matched with a sound career path to maintain the job's attractiveness, especially in such a competitive pilot market - Management, wake up and smell the pollution! :*

fire wall
18th Jul 2007, 05:10
Intergration plan is essential?
To who?
Dragon Air was stumbling long before cx took hold of it.
To quote J. M. , this is a takeover not a merger.

And Then
18th Jul 2007, 06:31
Isn't JM a pilot manager? :zzz:


I did 95 stick hours last month. A330 Capt. If you compare my package versus CX. With house purchase scheme differentials and overtime rates I come in about the same as an senior CX A330 FO.

It's not a merger- it's a takeover of lower employment costs.

Dragonair wasn't stumbling. It was being built up in areas to attract the best price- ie: China.

SOPS
18th Jul 2007, 09:41
many years ago I wanted that KA job, now I am happy I did not get it.

Kitsune
18th Jul 2007, 18:44
At least we have Manager Boeing to fight OUR corner......:cool:

Lowkoon
20th Jul 2007, 12:31
The hidden, wish I could agree with you. treating staff like kak, and continually attacking and reducing pay and conditions is not a pre requisite for an airlines demise. Unfortunately, quite the opposite. Share holders love it.

The fact is, we are a neccessary evil. They would love to see the back of all of us. The company need us, but dont expect to feel the love.

Forget about flightops. they are history. Do you really think once we have fully integrated to cx procedures that we are going to need 2 DFOs, 2 chief pilots, and 2 fleet managers, 2 training managers, etc blah blah blah. Level 2 will be as empty as the other floors in KA house. They know it, so attacking us is their last ditch effort to appear useful to their new overlord masters, Twats is obviously doing it in a last ditch effort to get a gig across the road. Why do you think they are cancelling 330 command training? These boys are coming back to fly the line. :)

KA is no longer the aero club it used to be. Now it is just like any other expat employer. Dont expect anything more than that, and you will not be so disappointed. Just remember to bring your own lube. Training in its use will be available on the intranet in due course, after 27 log in attempts.

And Then
21st Jul 2007, 01:27
Simple: leave don't complain.PPRUNE aint gonna save ya.
The more that leave the better argument the airline will have to secure permits in order to get people from the mainland fast tracked that would work for the fraction of what's on offer.Ask yourself who's CX's main shareholder?(It ain't Swire)

Not true airbusa330. Let me explain. People are leaving Dragonair. For a variety of reasons but the two top contenders are pollution and hostile management practices. The latter exemplified by the Pay Cut on offer!
So if people are leaving but are easily replaced this is a status quo.

Now this is where Pprune comes into things. If the true picture of a foreign airline is presented along with a true picture of expatriate life, the glossy sales pitch at recruitment can be balanced.

The picture presented by serving KA pilots is grim- this can be backed up by evidence of heavier than normal resignations.

If people don't come and people are leaving this is an inflationary pressure on wages. It may further worsen still to the extent where management must reasonably address issues of conditions of service and morale.

Don't believe me? Well Emirates and Qatar went through similar. This scenario, and thanks to Pprune for being the public median,helped forced pay rises.

Pprune is your friend.

boofta
21st Jul 2007, 06:30
And then, you are absolutely right.
This forum has saved many people going to many ****ty jobs.
Managers detest it.
Qantas have banned access to it on work portals.
It is THE only free flow of opinion available to aircrew.
It is the best thing that ever happened to pilots, and
will be the channel of fact and fiction that will recover
some of the conditions taken from aircrew worldwide.
Every manager reads it, because after filtration of
real rumour, its where free expression lives.
Personally, I reckon there's more fact than rumour.
A few clowns derail threads, but generally its the
most useful source of info there is.

PPRUNE RULES

ChairmanBoysClub
21st Jul 2007, 07:04
bootfa. U got that right mate. ALL the managers read the stuff in here. Funny enough most of are looking for complits of how well they are doing. They look for their own names to be mentioned. They are sad lot who thinks they are leaders not knowing how disgusted they are by their fellow pilots. Star chamber. Senior check and training captain. Quite a few very good and prof. chaps but then there is the pathetic bunch of looooong sleeved Nigels. No point in mentioning names in here as that is bad style - but hey - we all know who they are.. Almost all of them are on extention because of the typical - no f..k..g life stereotypes.
Yes, this forum does safe guys from making mistakes. Cathay is probably one of the worst hit companies on Pprune.org - but at the end of the day - there are the reasons. Cathay have only done well in deserving their ****ty reputation in the industry. A lot of us came out here because we overlooked all those rumours and tension only to realize many years later how true they are. Its a really really ****ty management by fear airline on the verge of loosing out. LONG LIVE PPRUNE.ORG.:ok:

Kitsune
21st Jul 2007, 18:22
To elaborate as requested:
1. Slip hand down front of trousers, or if slightly chubby, unbutton trousers and slip hand down underpants/boxers/thong whatever you happen to be wearing
2. Cradle nads for a while, give them a little squeeze....imagine a much harder squeeze
3. Equate harder squeeze to 49 of your colleagues being sacked, or worse, you being one of them...
4. Button trousers/remove hand as appropriate
5. Go back on pprune...maybe the company has a perfectly reasonable point of view given marketforces/priceoffuel/competiton/directorsremuneration/whattheSCMPthinks/howBeijibgseesit...strike out those that do not apply
6. Feel warm inside, nowyou're properly in THE CATHAY WAY..:yuk::yuk::yuk:

Lowkoon
22nd Jul 2007, 02:11
In short, they offered us 2% to raise our overtime threshold. The result for the average captain roster works out to about a $15,000 a month pay cut. Very tempting offer dont you think? :hmm: In the immortal words of Happy Gilmore, " Go to a happy place, go to a happy place....." :ouch: