What To Do In Event Of A Radio Failure

[basin]

Hi all,

The best thing to do in the event of a radio failure is to divert to the nearest suitable airfield i understand in the context of vfr flights in uncontrolled airspace. But what if the nearest airfield is a large, business airport with aircraft such as 737s etc in and out - e.g. coventry/Cambridge. What is the best practice to adopt when approaching to land at somewhere like this with a radio failure without encountering big problems?

Additionally, what if you are already established in the circuit - say downwind, and you encounter a radio failure, what is the best thing to do if you are not absolutly certain there is not an aircraft on finals that you cant see due to its distance/haze etc? I, at that stage would think it best to call it a day with that airport and try somewhere smaller and quieter?

This has been causing me some problems having only recently qualified and wanting to 'get out there' into the big wide world of flying!

Any help and advice appreciated.

Regards

[PompeyPaul]

In the event of a radio failure, as you point out, you divert to the nearest airfield. Even if that is Heathrow or Gatwick it is far far safer to divert and just jump straight onto finals. These major airports are set up for this.

If you are already in the circuit then your PPL instructor should have informed you of proper procedure. This is generally to fly as low and slow as you can, before bailing out with passengers and leaving the aircraft to ditch and crash.

If you got a PPL and don't know this then you've been ripped off!

[Bravo73]

Land in the nearest field then call the tower from your mobile.


This is much, MUCH easier if you're in a helicopter. ;)





PS For a slightly more serious answer, squawk 7600 and make sure that you know what the light signals from the tower mean.

[FREDSIMTH]

"In the event of a radio failure, as you point out, you divert to the nearest airfield. Even if that is Heathrow or Gatwick it is far far safer to divert and just jump straight onto finals. These major airports are set up for this.

If you are already in the circuit then your PPL instructor should have informed you of proper procedure. This is generally to fly as low and slow as you can, before bailing out with passengers and leaving the aircraft to ditch and crash.

If you got a PPL and don't know this then you've been ripped off!"





You can not be serious - What if you are in class G - What if you are outside the controlled airspace etc What about your transponder ? What a daft reply, esp the ripped off bit

[FREDSIMTH]

Forgot to mention - Isn't there something about flashing lights ....

[wbryce]

Squawk 7600, if cross country, then avoid controlled airspace, if your in controlled airspace doing circuits, then pay attention for light signals from tower...always, always, make blind calls as at this point, your transmitter may be working, you just won't know it.

It may sound daft but if you have a mobile phone then, I would use it, some form of communication is better than none.

alternatively, try box 2! :}

[dublinpilot]

Pompey,

That's a bit harsh. The reality of the radio failure rules is that they are very much open to interperation.

After all, what is the nearest "appropriate" airport? Appropriate in who's opinion? Not all circumstances are black and white. I'm not sure what you think the rules are here, but it sounds to me like your instructor has told you something and you've taken it as correct, while Basin has actually gone and read the AIP. The general advice offered in the AIP is very much open to interperation.

While certain airports may not seem appropriate when first thought of, but if you're on final set up for landing and 1 mile to touch down in good clear VMC, it may be more appropriate to squwak 7600 & land there than head off out through controlled airspace, through danger areas or ATZ's simply because it's the only way out or quickest way out.

In my opinion, it comes down to down to doing what is most sensible. If you can justify it afterwards as the most sensible option, then you made the correct decison.

When thinking about such situations, there are a lot of things to factor in. For example, if the unit you are working has radar, then squwaking 7600 can let everyone know what is going on and get other stuff moved out of your way. Even if they don't have radar, then it can still help, as the message may get passed on to the appropriate unit by someone with radar.

Don't forget that many large airports will have the coloured lamps (the name of which, I've forgotton) to give you signals.

Large airports often have specific radio failure proceedures, which you will find in the AIP entry. When flying to one of these airports, I always print out the AIP entry and bring it with me, just in case.

Often with a radio failue you can receive, but not transmit, or vise versa. When you can receive, ATC will sometimes ask you to do inventive stuff. One I heard of last year was where a pilot squwked 7600, and ATC said "If you can hear this then squwak ident." After that clearance to land was given.

Making blind transmittions can help too.

The other thing to consider is that perhaps you haven't had a radio failure at all. Perhaps you've had an alternator failure, which seems to be a very common failure. This could mean that your batter has simply run low. Check it. If it's the case, turning off everything else electrial may be enough to get you one or two more transmittions which may help you a lot!

There are lots of variables, which can lead to sensible decisons which might not seem so sensible on a casual first look.

dp

[PompeyPaul]

I'm saying if you got a PPL and don't know this stuff then something is amiss.The poster is probably the sort of person who agonises over whether to wear epaulettes or not to their flight school.

[Tiger_mate]

Have the telephone number of the Rescue Co-ordination Centre (Kinloss) in your mobile phone.....and call them. They can triangulate your position and give you the nearest suitable airfield.

I kid you not, many years ago I worked at a Radar Unit and a German F4 had a total electrics & hydraulics failure. Using a mobile phone he was vectored to a military airfield equipped with a cable, where he made a safe landing having 'blown' the gear down and using the arrestor cable to stop.

[modelman]

Quote:
"The poster is probably the sort of person who agonises over whether to wear epaulettes or not to their flight school."


You got your licence yet mate?

MM

[IO540]

Hard to believe that a GA spamcan with a duff radio, in Class G, should divert anywhere at all. You can fly non-radio in Class G! Just continue to destination, and land using the standard procedure (whatever that is, say overfly the runway at 500ft and then join the circuit).

In controlled airspace, on a VFR flight, one would fly the current clearance until it is exhausted, then continue on the filed (or, more likely, the previous notified) route. In the UK, that is likely to take out out of CAS.

In practice, this can lead to complications, and getting into a busy airfield on a sunny Sunday can be hard. I had a radio failure in the circuit during PPL training (solo) and bought a handheld radio immediately. I still carry it, with a backup GPS, in the emergency bag. It has a headset adaptor and a velcro PTT switch.

In the event of a radio failure, as you point out, you divert to the nearest airfield. Even if that is Heathrow or Gatwick it is far far safer to divert and just jump straight onto finals. These major airports are set up for this

is simply unbelievable.

[Whirlybird]

PompeyPaul,
If you meant to be serious, which I doubt...well, words fail me. if you meant to be funny, it wasn't! The poster asked a serious question, to which the answer was not obvious. If you can't be bothered to answer, then just leave it to someone else who can.

I agree with IO540. But squawk 7600 and make radio calls anyway, since that way someone should get the message. And get a handheld radio and keep it in your flightbag, then you won't have to worry. :ok:

[Fuji Abound]

That IS the first sensible answer. (IOs)

In fact (and forgive me if I sound pompous) but I find myself posting less on PPRuNe because of the "quality" of so many more of the threads these days. Is it a worrying indication of the training new pilots are receiving or is it the increased tendency to post wind ups - which are fine only if they are amusing or helpfully provactive rather than just daft.

Any way most GA will spend most of its time outside CAS - I assume this is what BASIN had in mind. It seems to me an awful lot of pilots dont talk to anyone ouside CAS anyway (not something I personally agree with, but there it is) so if you are one of them, you are hardly going to notice your radio has failed. Why therefore, or indeed what do you think you would achieve by diverting, I have no idea. Therefore continue en route to your planned destination and which presumably you will know the procedures to follow in the event of a RF.

If you are flying IFR or in CAS or are cleared for appraoch you will know the rules, which are quite clear and you will be expected to comply.

Anyone who is flying regularly including in IMC and CAS would do well to consider carrying a spare hand held.

[Rod1]

Agree with IO, but with one slight variation. As you fly to your destination, you dig out your Icom, plug in your headset and this makes things less unusual. If you are landing non radio (which many pilots do all the time so it is not a big deal) remember to use the signal square.

Rod1

[Laundryman]

This very scenario happened to me as I was about to ask for joining instructions at my home airfield (radio aircraft only airfield no radar). In the heat of the moment I couldn't remember whether to squawk 7600 or 7500 and since I didn't want to be met by all three emergency services and an armed response team I decided to see if I could find the problem. Discovered wire had come off the PTT switch so Dad (who was my passenger) leant me his Swiss army knife I peeled back the insulation and held the ends of the wire together to make my calls.

[PompeyPaul]

Ok,

I'll spell it out. I think the original poster is pulling your \ our leg!

[PompeyPaul]

Snide Comments

Quote:
"The poster is probably the sort of person who agonises over whether to wear epaulettes or not to their flight school."


Well, if you look at the 1 other post by the op then that is what he posted!

You got your licence yet mate?

MM
Nope, which again makes me suspicious. Even I know what to do, and the op has a PPL ?

Squawk 7600. Transmit blind. Go back to the previous live channel, try switching coms, try another channel, try 121.5, use your mobile to phone the tower \ approach. DO NOT ENTER CONTROLLED AIRSPACE! Keep transmitting as usual but make it clear you are transmitting blind.

[gcolyer]

Radio failure....simple.....Switch on your Ipod.:}

[Kerosine]

Pompey, are we all blessed with your ability to know everything?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=283747

[FullyFlapped]

As has been said, carrying a handheld radio, with headset adapter if possible, goes a long way to taking the stress out of the situation ... however, if you've had the unit for a few years, just make sure that the battery hasn't degraded to the point where you get a lot less life out of it than you are expecting, even if you know you've charged it up properly !

Actual experience is a great "smug feeling" remover .. :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:

FF :ok:

[Mariner9]

IMHO, its a pity that UK PPL flying training does not mandate at least some time in non radio a/c operating into/from grass strips. If it did, PPL's would have no fears of flying non radio, and therefore a radio failure would be a non-event. They'd then have plenty of spare capacity to fly the aircraft to a suitable airfield, avoiding CAS, looking out for traffic, and observing the signals square to join the correct circuit. (As an added benefit, there would be far less posts on here about what spare Icom to carry, how many spare batteries for their spare icom to carry etc etc :ugh:)

[FullyFlapped]

Mariner9,

(As an added benefit, there would be far less posts on here about what spare Icom to carry, how many spare batteries for their spare icom to carry etc etc )
Whilst I don't disagree with your sentiments regarding PPL non-radio training (can never have enough training), were I to be above (or in) a solid overcast at the time of the radio failure, I think I'd be fairly pleased that Mr. Icom was along for the ride (with his annoying spare batteries etc ;)).

FF :ok:

[blue up]

Whilst f4rting about with a mobile phone on a long sector, I discovered it wouldn't get a signal. Not even when over the centre of the UK. It seems (from internet study) that modern mobiles won't work if above something like 3000 ft due to them being in line-of-sight of too many receiver nodes. Old phones don't have this inhibit function and will work but are not billed due to the 'error' signal sent to the billing department.

Feel free to humiliate me if you've got better info!:ok:

There is a LATCC phone number at Swanick for the controller who sits at the fancy desk in the middle of all of the controllers who have the radar screens. I called him (as part of research into this situation) and he said he would hand his handset over to one of the sector controllers if I had lost 'radio' contact.

Blue Up
757/767

Can I ask someone who habitually flies below 3000' to have a try with their phone? Maybe try one new one and one old one (about 5 years old or more)

[englishal]

As usual some very good advice (IO) and some crap advice (PP) on here.

I had radio failure departing a class D airfield in the past, I just continued with my clearance and once in G airspace continued non-radio and went home. Luckily home is an unlicenced airfield aith A/G so it didn't really matter arriving non radio.

Many airfields, including class D ones have set rt failure procedures......for example "sqwark 7600, orbit around XYZ VRP 5 times left, then 5 times right, enter the zone at XXX altitude, over fly the field at XXX and orbit once to the left and watch for light signals"....or similar.

[Mariner9]

were I to be above (or in) a solid overcast at the time of the radio failure, I think I'd be fairly pleased that Mr. Icom was along for the ride (with his annoying spare batteries etc ).
FF

Don't disagree with that FF, but would hope that a pilot flying in such conditions would be suitably trained and experienced to deal with radio failure.

But the majority of the radio-related questions posted on here appear to be from day time VFR PPL's who appear to have been indoctrinated with the idea that in-flight radio failure is an emergency that requires immediate landing. Indeed, the original question on this thread suggests that immediate landing is required following radio failure in uncontrolled airspace VFR. This is a recurring question, and IMHO shows that UK PPL training is sadly lacking in that direction.

[BackPacker]

Can I ask someone who habitually flies below 3000' to have a try with their phone? Maybe try one new one and one old one (about 5 years old or more)

I flew a departure over Rotterdam at 1500 feet. The phone could not get a lock on a tower. It was the characteristic beeping in my headset that alerted me to the fact that I had forgotten to switch it off - so much for immunity of the equipment (and this was an IFR certified DA-40).

Rotterdam, being a fairly big city, will have dozens of masts close by so I guess it's very easy to be in line of sight with too many of them. Still, I was only at 1500 feet. Made me wonder how practical the option of digging out your cell phone in case of radio failure really is. I think you need to orbit somewhere really low in order not to be in line of sight with too many masts.

And for the record, mine is a Nokia 6310i. I don't know how old the phone itself is, but the firmware (use *#0000# to find out) is dated 17-4-02.

[172driver]

Firstly, I second IO - I carry an ICOM, the VOR capable verision and a handheld GPS. Guess, this combo is gonna get me home if all else fails.:ok:

Had a couple of what appeared to be radio failures. I say 'appeared to be' on purpose, because:
- in one case the intercom went down - used the handheld mike
- in another, box one went down but the other worked
- another time the PTT switch on my yoke (P1 side) gave up - plugged into P2 and kept chattering away.
Just because you can't hear/talk does NOT mean you've got a full-blown radio failure!

All of the above in CAS, hence squawk 7600 and follow NORDO procedures. These are actually published for many airfields, not only big ones.

Re the mobile phone situation: Firstly, some countries (Austria, e.g.) actually have the good sense to publish a mobile no to call in case of radio failure. This is published on their charts. I have never tried it, but AFAIK this gets you straight to Wien Info.

Now, the trick with mobiles is, that the denser populated the area, the more masts there are. In other words, flying over central France or such will get you a signal much higher up than over, say, central London (please no 'glide clear' comments from the plonkers on here).

I've never heard about the new vs. old phone, will try that, I've got a few stone-age ones gathering dust, will put them to use next time in the air!

[Insane]

Was once in a situation like the one under discussion, and used a cell phone to talk to the tower, squawked 7600 on the transponder. Air priority call, straight thru to the tower, priority landing, no problem!! Technology is great.:ok:

[BackPacker]

Insane, what was your altitude and how densely populated was the area you were flying over? We're trying to establish at what altitude you can reasonably expect to get a signal+lock, depending on population density and other factors.

[172driver]

BackPacker, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule for this. In general, the more remote your location, the higher up you will get a signal & lock.

[BackPacker]

Agree, but it would be nice to have something like a ballpark figure, along the lines of:
10.000 feet - forget it in any case
3000 feet - only over sparsly populated areas, if you're lucky
1000 feet or below - over a congested area/city

[172driver]

Well, I certainly would not say 'forget it' above 10k. I have had a signal and lock higher than that (pretty remote part of Spain). This has also been discussed in the 'Rumors & News' forum here with people reporting signals up in the 300s FLs. It really depends where you are (and this old/new phone issue may well play a part).

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Radio failure? Deal with it and fly the aeroplane. Go back to base (for which you of course know the non-radio procedure)....or if you havent the range to get there, go somewhere else suitable for a non-radio arrival (i.e notGatwick or LHR). Remember the light signals?

If everyone flew around without so much radio control, and were used to making their own decisions instead of relying on ATC to do it for them, it wouldn't be an issue.

PS don't forget to submit an MOR, like some moron did a few years ago when he couldnt change frequency...:ugh:

[Diddley Dee]

If you have a radio failure outside CAS ...

Squawk 7600. D&D will then see you straight away on a display that only shows radio fail & emegency squawks. We will then track you & inform any airfield you appear to be heading to that you may be arriving with them, you will then not be totally unexpected when you pitch up in their circuit.

Attempt to contact D&D on 121.5 we monitor it 24/7

Mobile phone... I have phoned D&D whilst flying (01895 426150 will put you straight through) and had no problems at 3000 feet. If you just have a straight forward radio fail with no other problems, dont expect an ATC service off us, we will just take your C/S routing ETA & inform destination AFD. If you have other issues, we would obviously assist as required.

DD