Thinking about letting our son do the PPL?

[william1872]

Hi all,

I recently got our 15 yr old son a trial flight for his birthday, which he thoroughly enjoyed. I've spoken to him about potentially continuing this and going for the PPL.

The question I have is does holding a PPL increase your chances of going on to a career in aviation? I understand becoming a Commercial Pilot isn't straight forward and the chances are low becoming one. The reason I ask the question is that this is a big financial commitment for us and if having a PPL doesn’t enhance your chances of becoming a Commercial Pilot then is it worth going for one?

Thanks in advance

William

[sternone]

Hello,

I have a question, what does your son wants ?

Is becomming an airliner pilot a dream of him ? Is he sure ? Absolutely sure ?

I wouldn't wan't to be an airline pilot for all the money in the world, i find it a very hard life, problems to have a normal family life, and at the end of your career, all you can do is flying, nothing much more.

For money and job security there are tons of better things, believe me.

BUT, if all he can talk about is flying and he really really really wants this, go let him get his PPL, you can start with the theoretical exam, it won't cost you that much on books or maybe saterday school lessons that starts in september and if he get goods grades and enjoys it to the fulliest you can move on to the practical part.

Good luck and all the best!

[gcolyer]

Put it this way if you don't have a PPL you cant even start your commercial exams!

If finances permit then I would start him of as soon as possible. Because of his age he has a chance to get commercialy qualified at a young age which will give him a better chance making it in the commercial world.

[Seabiscuit]

Hello William,
It was 11 years ago my parents were faced with the same question.
I'm glad they said yes.
Like your son I was bought a lesson for my 14 b'day. I had always wanted to fly. I loved everything about it. From that moment on i was hooked.
When my parents said yes, they made me go out and earn some money, as they did'nt want to hand me the money but anything I earned they would match (usually with a bit more).
I think getting the ppl is invaluable. I lets your son decide whether it is a great hobby or is it something he wants do for the rest of his life.
I got my ppl at 17, sold my soul to the devil and went to oxford and did the f/atpl full course.
Got and lost a job while training due to sep 11. Started instructing, got a job with a loco, and am now in the right seat of a 777.
My advice is to encourage his him if you can afford it, and maybe get him to do a few jobs (teach the value of money and all that). When he has to work and save every penny to go flying it will put everything in context.
On the job front, as everything its very cyclical (think thats spelt correctly). At the moment their are a lot of jobs out their. A lot of my friends have got jobs with minimal experience (turboprop and jets)
Hope this helps
Seabiscuit

[william1872]

Hi Sterone,

Some good points there and I guess to answer your question, with him still being 15 I guess he doesn't know for sure what he wants to do career wise, when I discussed this with him on Sunday his face lit up and he had a large grin on his face for some time :)

There is a starter pack I can buy from our local flying school, which I'm considering byuying first, and then take it from there, I'd never push him in doing this only encourage :)

Thanks

William

[gcolyer]

Is becomming an airliner pilot a dream of him ? Is he sure ? Absolutely sure ?

I wouldn't wan't to be an airline pilot for all the money in the world, i find it a very hard life, problems to have a normal family life, and at the end of your career, all you can do is flying, nothing much more.


Commercial Aviation is not just about being an airline pilot!! It is also not about the financial reward.

There is all sorts of commercial flying:

Biz Jets
Test Pilot
Ferry pilot
Bush Pilot

blah blah blah

[william1872]

Hi Seabiscut,

We always encourage our son to contribute to things he wants, I would certainly encourage it in this case ;)

I think initially I'll buy the starter pack, and take it from there, see how he feels after that?

Regards

William
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[sternone]

There is all sorts of commercial flying:

Biz Jets
Test Pilot
Ferry pilot
Bush Pilot

True, but most end up these days in airline transport, or at least, that's their dream.. carrying loads of passengers, until they go fly the same route twice a day...for years and years...

[PompeyPaul]

Not paying anything until he passes all 7 written exams is an excellent test of dedication. There is a LOT of work there.

The books can be purchased with weekend working money and the exams can be done on the weekend cash too.

If he gets through all seven then he is incredibly determined.

[BackPacker]

...and think of this. If you're an airline recruiter, having to choose from 2 equally qualified, newly minted ATPLs, which one are you going to choose?

The one who enrolled on the integrated ATPL course at 22, did the required hours in the PA-28, complex, multi, IR etc., all paid for by the bank loan. All in the minimum hours required, exactly to the required standard.

Or the one who started with a trial lesson in a microlight at age 15, first solo at 16th birthday, got the PPL aged 17, flew a variety of types including gliders, had some aerobatic experience (including one competition event), did a large number of VFR cross-country flights including the grand tour of France with his parents in the back (!), got the CPL on merit alone (no "hour building" required since the hours were there anyway) and finally got the ATPL at age 22? And who made money to pay for a lot of this by washing aircraft and doing the other odd aviation related jobs?

Obviously recruiters look for formal qualifications, but dedication is a big factor too.

[silverknapper]

If he gets through all seven then he is incredibly determined.
I would beg to differ. The PPL exams are very easy - especially for someone of a young age who is at school and in a learning environment. Add to that all the confuser guides and really there ain't much to it.
If he is serious about it, suggest working at the local aero club at weekends in return for lessons. If he hangs about a lot he will meet a wide variety of people, all ready to give him advice. He will be able to go along on flights if anyone has a spare seat and he is friendly and outgoing. Washing airplanes for people is another way to get in. In short immerse himself in aviation in his spare time - he'll either love it or hate it. IMHO the kids I see at aero clubs who get involved are much happier and 'into' their aviation than those who come and go just for their lessons.

[Bravo73]

...and think of this. If you're an airline recruiter, having to choose from 2 equally qualified, newly minted ATPLs, which one are you going to choose?

Erm, Backpacker - are you actually an airline recruiter? No, I thought not.

Because, unfortunately for your story, an awful lot of recruiters at the moment would prefer Case A (integrated) to Case B (dedicated modular). Harsh but true.

If you don't believe me, spend a few hours trawling through Wannabes forums.

;)

[BackPacker]

Mmmm. Wonder what the reasoning behind that is?

[william1872]

There is some great advice on this thread, and I've now more than enough to consider before progressing, thanks for all the help and advice :)

Regards

William

[Bravo73]

Mmmm. Wonder what the reasoning behind that is?


If you don't believe me, spend a few hours trawling through Wannabes forums.

:ugh:




Hmmm, what was it that someone said earlier about 'signal to noise' ratio, eh? :rolleyes:

[BackPacker]

Well, I just went to the Wannabees forum and the general type of question is:

"I am <fill in age, typically 18 to 35>, I have decided I want to fly for the airlines and get into the LHS as soon as possible and I can get a bank loan/I have funds available. Integrated or modular?"

And these questions are then answered by people in the same situation, NOT by recruiters. But the general consensus seems to be that if you go integrated you've got a better chance of landing a job since the school will help you with your application through their contacts with the airlines.

The question posed here is more like "I have a son aged 15. He's crazy about aviation and might, in the future, once he's finished with school, consider an aviation career. Should we help him get his PPL now or is it better to wait till he's 18 and put him on an integrated course?"

Totally different situation. And until an actual recruiter explains to me why they would prefer a moderately enthousiast, minimum hours, integrated student above an aviation-crazy modular student, who soloed at 16, PPL-ed at 17 with a wide range of general GA experience, I'm not going to comment any further.

[airborne_artist]

I'll chuck in my six pennies worth.

Get the lad down the the Air Training Corps. Free gliding, some powered flying, and lots of other good things like Duke of Edinburgh, teamwork etc.

If he really enjoys that, then he can think about (you) paying (about £60,000) for his fATPL, or he might also think about joining the Services to fly. It's hard work, both to get in, and once in, but it's still a good life. My daughter is going down that route right now.

[UV]

Backpacker
Probably because the Recruiter would prefer a full time professionally trained student who has been on a continuous course aimed specifically at the Airline Industry.
That is not to denegrate the modular route but given the choice of a full time professional student as opposed to a part time enthusiast (regardless of who is paying) who do you think the Airline Industry would choose?
I would agree that if he is looking for some form of sponsorship then obviously the enthusiast would probably win!
UV

[william1872]

Liam wanted to go down the services route, however Liam had an astma attack when he was 5 and that rules him out of the services for flying completely.

I'll have a chat with him about the ATC

Regards

Wiliam

[BackPacker]

If he had an astma attack once, then you might want to check whether he qualifies for a JAA Class 1 medical in any case, before investing any money whatsoever. Without that Class 1 medical, all commercial flying will be impossible.

Won't prevent him from flying privately, probably, and thoroughly enjoying it.

[william1872]

As far as I'm aware it doesn't.

Regards

William

[airborne_artist]

Liam had an astma attack when he was 5 and that rules him out of the services for flying completely

Not for certain. The Royal Navy won't take people for aircrew who have a history of asthma in the past five years, but one attack aged five probably won't be a show stopper. Don't assume that he's barred by that one episode.

[william1872]

Thanks for that airborne_artist, I'll let my son know that :)

[Whirlybird]

While it seems to be generally accepted in certain circles that it's good and virtuous and wonderful to starve in a garret and sweep floors with your teeth in order to pay for your own flying, and evil, bad and nasty if your loving parents pay for it, this is not set in stone, or believed by everyone. We're not talking about candidacy for sainthood here, but qualifications for becoming a commercial pilot. And if I was a recruiter, I'd admire the chap who'd scrimped and saved, but pick the one with the best qualifications from the best school. It's called being practical. Besides, no-one automatically becomes any less of a person because their parents help them out. Some are even grateful for it. And if they're not, does that make them any worse as a pilot?

[CraigR1989]

Thought I'd chip something in....

I applied for the RAF last year, getting to OASC before being declared P/U due to Tolipes as a baby, however there was a guy there who was in the same place as your son appears to be, having an astma attack when he was younger. The guy was declared fit as it was a one off and hadnt occurred within the last 5 years.... Maybe a trip to a local AFCO if its service flying he is looking at!

Also, I noticed a post about getting him to sit the 7 PPL exams before he starts flying. Although the PPL exams can be quite taxing (getting to grips with the whizz-wheel and such like) can take time, but the PPL training has to be completed within 18 months from the first exam, otherwise he would need to resit the exams out of that period again.

Just another thing to take into account :)

[HR200]

Hi, I have my PPL with a goal to being an airline (or at least cargo initially).

However, I have read your opening thread and you NEED the PPL before anyone can become an airline pilot.

Even if it ends up being a hobby, what a hobby it is!!