Flying in Vegas

[PompeyPaul]

I'll be on holiday in Vegas in November. I should be a newly minted PPL then and was wondering what the story was with hiring in Vegas and flying up to the grand canyon ?

Is there a little airport there ? Can I hire a car there to go and see the canyon etc ?

Anybody done this before ?

[helopat]

If its an FAA PPL you'll probably have to find a school or club, take a fly in one of their aircraft to get checked out, and you'll be sweet. There is, if I recall correctly, a small airport at the south rim of the canyon, but mind your ps and qs around the canyon itself as its a noise sensative area and I'm sure there are special procedures and restrictions on flying over in a lighty (as well as the fact that in November the weather is likely to be a bit shiite).

If this doesn't appeal to you (cost, license issues, etc) I'd recommend driving to the South rim of the canyon. Its a bit of a long haul, but VERY beautiful and worth a day or two of your holiday (drive out in the morning, stay the night at the canyon, and return the next day).

Hope this helps you a bit.

HP

[LateFinals]

Go to the North Vegas executive airport, very friendly. Hire a plane with an instructor who will tell you where to go so you can enjoy the views and not sweat about nav (self-hire anyway in US getting harder). Some great land-aways nearby for lunch. Forget name of airfield, but about 1 hours flying from Vegas you can see the original london bridge brought by a rich American and assembled is US.

Flying over the Canyon in a PA-28 away from all the tourist chopers etc ranks as one of the best flying experiences ever. :D

[cavortingcheetah]

:)

Did exactly that some years ago - fantastic!
It's not worth the hassle to validate your PPL. Just get an instructor and take it as a dual mission but log the hours as P1. Land for lunch is great and you can drink loads of beer and try flying plastered on the way back. Consider it a medical experiment for an article you are writing for Pilot magazine in the UK. The US instructor will be highly amused at having contributed to the drunken lunch of an international aviation journalist. Perhaps you had better not tell him that your name is Simon Calder though!:E
(Would suggest a high wing, perhaps a C182, better photography.)

[Sensible]

I think that as a "newly minted" PPL you will not be set loose in Nevada and certainly not without an FAA licence conversion which will take some time to get anyway. There are density altitude issues and there is a lot of restricted airspace and special rules over the canyon area. North Las Vegas is close to McCarron International and Nellis Military airport and it can get extremely busy with ATC vectoring you all over the sky. Settle for renting an instructor with the aircraft and getting some dual time. Try a landing at McCarron, a trundle down the taxi way to Signature FBO and then take off again requesting a route out over the Hoover dam. London Bridge is down at Lake Havasu. If you do fly in, providing that you fill the aircraft with fuel, the FBO will most likely let you borrow the pool car to drive down to the lake and bridge.

[Justiciar]

I did a flight from North Las Vegas with West Air. The instructor was not up to much I have to say and spent very little time with me briefing on the area. On reflection I should have devoted a whole day rather than a few hours. The flight was spectacular and McCarron were quite happy to vector us right over the threshold of the main runway there.

One word of warning: many of the taxi drivers don't seem to know their way to anywhere outside the main tourist destinations; also make sure you arrange transport back to the centre. It took me over an hour to get someone to pick me up - the courtesy bus the flight school told me operated from North Las Vegas to the strip had stopped!

[david viewing]

Please don't be put off flying solo in Las Vegas. As a newly minted PPL you have to start accumulating solo hours somewhere and there is nowhere better to do that than flying 1 or 2 Hr slots out of Las Vegas. The west end of the Canyon is easily within reach on a 2 hr trip and flight is permitted at lower levels than at the popular South Rim. There are numerous other places to go on all points of the compass.

The weather in November can be very suitable for developing cross country skills and the beast of density altitude is mostly spent by then. Weather is better early in the month than later when the snow often sets in. Storm systems with high winds are predicted days in advance, but can last for a week when they arrive. Be flexible.

There are several FBO's at North Las Vegas and the best plan is just to go round and talk to them. They won't be especially busy in November, but avoid Thanksgiving. You will need a rental car - the shuttle to the strip only goes one way - when it's going at all. You could stay at the Texas - about a mile from VGT on Rancho - but I'm not sure I'd walk up there! There are plenty of cabs but VGT to the strip is $20 or more.

Of course you will need a reciprocal licence as well - all that's been covered to death here. I have no idea about FBO's experience requirements but I'd expect an extended checkout - something like the 3 Hours required before getting a sign off for the US private license practical test. After that, even if you then only get to fly 1Hr solo in the local area, you've done it, and the whole US is open to you. There's always next year.

VGT is under the northern edge of Bravo airspace and you can actually route NW to the practice area and Death Valley without entering the 'B' at all. But more importantly, controlled airspace is not the scary stuff we have here. There are well rehearsed entry/exit proceedures through the 'B' to the Lake (Mead) and the Canyon. Controllers may well make you wait for entry, but they won't refuse it as you might fear at home.

Any solo checkout you get will cover these proceedures and from VGT a checkout is an experience in itself, usually routing over the lake to Boulder Dam to familiarise you with the VFR route.

Grand Canyon airport GCN is somewhat ambitious for a new PPL at 2-3 hours away and 7000' elevation, sensibly requiring an overnight and careful planning, so may be a better bet when you have a little more experience. You can always drive there and be able to explore without having to worry about getting the plane back to it's owner. Even then, it's an 8Hr drive from Vegas and one year I got snowed up on the freeway in November driving there!

Finally and purely personal but I'd suggest avoiding passengers when first making these trips. You need to be able to make completely objective go/no go decisions and even more important be able to land out and stay overnight en route without worrying about someone else's priorities. If you miss your flight home to UK, so what? There's another one tomorrow!

Happy flying.

[PompeyPaul]

Thanks for all of the replies folks (especially David, that was very informative thanks for writing such a long reply)! I think I'll take an instructor with me this time, but maybe next year....

[PompeyPaul]

I've looked at those suggestions but they all seem to fly C172s. Does anybody know of anywhere that rent out PA28s instead ?

[worldpilot]

What about renting cirrus SR20/SR22 in Las Vegas. Any info about prices in Vegas?:yuk:

WP

[Blinkz]

To fly solo in the US you'll need to get your licence validated and then whilst over there you will need to do a bi-annual check flight, for just a holiday I think it would be too much hassle. If I were you I'd follow the other suggestions and just get a FI to go with you and enjoy the scenery. Although you won't be able to claim P1 as someone suggested! You won't have a valid licence and so can't be PIC of the a/c!

[worldpilot]

Thats right. You won't fly any aircraft solo without an FAA license. I just completed the BFR for an FAA license in Florida. You need time to get that done. To be sincere, you need to do some preparation for the BFR. You don't want to be caught off guard. Also the whole process of validation (TSA, etc) need some time too.

Looking at the time frame, I think your only option is to fly with an instructor. I don't see any alternative though.

Have fun

Wp

[On the Spot]

The Grand Canyon is a special flight rules area and there is a seperate chart published showing the routings, altitude and frequencies to use plus the routings taken by the commercial operators.
It is a great flight and well worth doing but take precautions including flight following as it is remote. You might find some rental outfits less keen on letting you out solo as a newly qualified pilot than they used to be. But the instructors are also helpful, not expensive and worth it if needed.
I would also time the flight for morning or early afternoon as I experienced some turbulence when I passed through in late afternoon.
I would second LAs Vegas North as the airport to use too. Very helpful and even produced a hire car when no one else was able to help.

I rented from Phoenix so have no experience of the operators around Las Vegas though as mentioned earlier theer are VFR routings into and out of Las Vegas North that are not comlicated but helped of course by local knowledge.

[PompeyPaul]

I have one last question.

A flight school has said that I can fly with instructor on my UK PPL no problems. I'm just wondering if it will be a flight where by I sit and look out of the window, or if I can log P1 in the LHS and do the flying ?

It's just strange that I don't have to convert my PPL or register as an alien looking for flight training.

[Slopey]

You can do the flying, obviously, but you can't log P1 as you don't have a licence for the US.

Presumably you can log it as Pu/t and it'll still count towards your dual/total hours, but you can't use it as a revalidation "hour" as it's not by a JAA approved instructor?? Or am I making that bit up?

[worldpilot]

PomppeyPaul, check your license and you will notice the following.
"By the application of JAR-FCL 1.015(a)(1), the licence is entitled to exercise license privileges on aircraft registered in any Member State of the JAA".

That means, solo is "no go" in the USA.:=

I've this advice for you. Be aware of your liabilities as a foreign pilot before jumping into the cockpit in the USA. Make sure you moves are in compliance with the FAA and insurance requirements.

WP

[jezbowman]

Check also that they are happy to carry pax (if this is what you intend). When I hired with an instructor back in Jan 2006 (for a local bimble from Kissemee, FL) they were not pleased with me wanting to bring my wife along. This was because they were treating it as an "air experience flight" (trial lesson) and the insurance wouldn't cover a pax with me sitting left hand seat. When I told them to "forget it then" they made "one last call" to their insurance company who said "okay"! :rolleyes:
They didn't want to see my PPL. But I checked the a/c out, did all the flying and told the instructor where we were when he got us lost. :hmm:
Confirm everything and have a fall back plan. I've hired in the USA, New Zealand and Oz and when you arrive at their office, things are rarely as they appeared when you called / e-mailed the week before.
Have fun though! :ok: