Am I the only one left?

[TonkaEngO]

Getting a little bored with all of the 'life in the RAF is crap' brigade. Am I the only one left who still enjoys it? Yes, it is not the RAF that I joined either - but you know what? That old RAF was not always the Dogs Do Dahs either. Much has changed, and will continue to change, lots of it (not all granted) for the better.
I understand that this type of thread tends to attract the more pessimistic end of the gene pool, but the vast majority of my colleagues, across the rank and age spectrum, still enjoy the life - if answering honestly.
Yes OOAs and 'over-stretch' are hurting us - but ask a few of the old boys from WWII (and for the 10+ years after it ended) how much time they spent at home.
I fully expect the same old names to reply and deride. But I for one would not change it - not too much anyway......

[Ed Winchester]

There are at least two of us then. After 17 years I still love my job. It is not without its problems and frustrations, but it sure as hell beats working for a living. I enjoy the OOA dets (just don't tell the missus) - best flying I have ever done.

Unfortunately Tonka, this thread will probably wither and die quickly - contentment doesn't make for good headlines.

[Wader2]

One old boy, a Chiefy in Ceylon, sadly passed away last year, related the tale of the post-war mutiny there.

As you will recall :), when the war was over in Europe it continued for some months in Asia. Then priority was given to repatriation of POWs and then long serving troops with later, in-war conscripts having to serve well into the peace. They all feared the good jobs in peacetime Britain would be gone by the time they got home.

Then, on top of all this unrest and unease, a new adjutant decided to return to the post-war peacetime traditions. Morning parades and inspecions before start work etc etc.

First day no one went on parade. After breakfast they all went to work in the hangars etc as normal. Next day the same. The adjutant jumped up and down threatened courts martial etc but still no parades.

It was decided that there was no mutiny (bad press) as they were all reporting for work. An Airship was flown in from AHQ to investigate. The adjutant was congratulated on his keeness in instilling discipline andthe troops were visited to see if they had any grievances. Apart from being there they did not. As it happened there was some essential work that needed doing and just one man with the skills and competency to do it. It was the adjutant; he had to leave immediately for this mostimportant assignment.

Now there is a moral here and there might be parallels with another active thread here too. :}

[Kengineer-130]

I still enjoy elements of it, great people to work with etc, but I think being a Tonka engo ( big presumption, but hey!) your views would change pretty quickly if you were on a frontline SH or AT Sqn, and watched all your manpower get "leaned" away from you, all your experience get redundancy and see 1st hand the devestation left when the government have to be bullied into fitting ESF,only after loosing 10 lives :mad::ugh:.....

I think most people are upset at the fact that they are/were in a job they were very proud to do and thoroughly enjoyed doing, we all know you have to take the rough with the smooth, after all it is what we do. But the rewards seem to be less and less, and we seem to be expected to perform miracles and carry on with substandard kit, undermanned and vastly overstretched.....

People feel unnappreciated and undervalued, and morale is a HUGE factor of service life, even in armpits of the world like Basrah, Kandahar etc, if troops are happy then pretty much anything else is not a problem...

I do like my job, I work with lots of top guys, we get to travel, get cheap hobbys/ trips through organisations within the RAF, and enjoy a pretty decent shift, but all the time you can see the noose tightening around our necks, as a singly living in, I actually had a pay CUT this year :ugh:, after our derisory 2.7% rise, and food and accomodation charges have increased.

[Maple 01]

Well I'm trying to get back in part-time so it can't be that bad! I'd guess being up-close and personal with the niff-naff and trivia means that you forget why you joined in the first place, and some time away allows a chap to re-focus

Then again I might be talking c***

[Tourist]

I'm happy!

[Zithro]

Me too....I think life in the RAF is generally great fun. A few lows over the last 18yrs, but many more highs...and you get paid for it!

[C130 Techie]

Coming up to 30 years done. Still reasonably happy despite all the changes and the money is OK.

On to age 55 with 8 years to do. Will I do the 8 years? I don't know and I stayed on the old pension scheme to allow myself the option to leave at any point should things change for the worse.

Currently OOA and having a great time despite the cold and snow (I know its only the Falklands and no one here is getting shot at but it's still 4 months away from home and of course there are people who have been in as long as I have who have never been OOA).

[8-15fromOdium]

Chalk up another one. I will whinge and gripe - and as Zithro knows - not just behind closed doors. On balance I am enjoying it as much as I did 21 years ago (10 of which has been on 1st line SH).

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Well, for me (20 Yrs), It used to be Great.... then it was Good..... now it's OK. I'm not sure whether that is down to me or the Force, I'd guess a bit of both.

Change is the nature of things, but I have to say, some of the more recent changes haven't added any value in my view.

Advo

[Biggus]

TonkaEngO

So you are still happy - good for you, but are your men? Another one of mine PVRed a few days ago. Are many/any of yours leaving?

I am having to make some assumptions here, based on the fact you are a TonkaEngO from Norfolk. I presume you are going OOA as a formed unit what one every 15-18 months? To a large airbase full of US assets in a country some people go on holiday to? Do you have air conditioned accommodation, 20 flavours of ice cream, showers, bowling alleys, cinema, lots of fast food, a two can rule? Do you have nobody shooting at you? Do you still get to do Red Flag once a year, maybe once every two years? NATO exercises still?

Well I believe it is currently a two tier RAF, and for some fleets, perhaps F3, E3D the training environment, life is very different from say Harrier, SH, and AT experiences. I am glad you are still enjoying your time in the RAF - I just wish I could say the same for all of my men.

I now stand by to be corrected by F3 and E3D guys (I didn't even mention Typhoon)

[howard_hughes]

I'm quite glad this type of thread has finally surfaced, reading some of the stuff on these forums would be enough to put anyone off!

[Amateur Aviator]

Seeing a I kicked off the last major rant, I'll add this.

I do enjoy what I do, otherwise I'd go for promotion to Mister out in the real world. What gets me down is the bolleaux that people generate from time to time. It's unfortunate that the 'time to time' is becoming too often.

AA

[TonkaEngO]

Keng 130 & Biggus,
Not always been Tonkas or an EngO. 16 years airman service on various platforms, rotary and large stuff as well as fast jet - before (currently) 9 years 'on the dark side'. Still stand by all I said as regards 90% of the guys being happy.
And yes the air con can get a little chilly in the evenings

To all the positive replies - well I'll be blowed (if I'm lucky). Things just cant be that bad then eh! Such a pleasant change to hear from some of you that enjoy the life still - instead of the depressing 'Its not the RAF I joined' gang.

Contact wait out........

[sarsteph]

TonkaEngO

You're definitely not the only one left!

Despite 3 postings in 3 years and 4 months in the sandpit last year (and a total of 5 and a half months away from family in total last year) I've never had a more satisfying job than I have in the RAF.

I also have the privilege, working on the welfare side of the Service, to see the fantastic ways in which the RAF tries to looks after it's people. Only today I was talking to someone who was seriously hurt in an accident. Both he and his family have had an exemplary level of care and support from the system - none of which he would have had if he'd been in civvy employment.

OK - there are things we can moan and complain about - but there's so much more to enjoy. It's time for more of us to see the glass as half-full instead of half-empty!:D

[BootFlap]

GOOD
1. Flying a moderately fast jet.
2. Looking after the boys on the ground when they ask for it.
3. Cheap cigars in Afghanistan.
4. 6-9 months / year away from Nagger Ops! (Absence/heart/fonder!)
5. Excellent coffee in the ‘Green Bean Café’.
6. Heavy Weapons whilst away.
7. Lots of hours whilst away.
BAD
1. Jet needs more big engines for carrier ops.
2. Odd ‘tit on the ground’ calling you utterly useless.
3. Not even 1 x beer to go with your cigar.
4. 6-9 months away from the kids (okay, and the Nagger!).
5. No Yorkshire Tea.
6. No weapons at all back here / decent dets.
7. No hours whilst at home.
However, mortgage paid every month! Enjoyment sometimes, family financially secure always. Will I stay, maybe? I will not PVR, but as an option is close I do consider a job 'outside'. Without doubt, money would help make me stay in. Quality of life has gone (IMHO) so I am frankly open to the highest bidder! I want my family to be sorted (after 20 years of following me around, CDOps has told me that is only fair) but I do enjoy the jet.
So, the answer for me is 'Yes/No/Sometimes'.

[Sentry Agitator]

Biggus

You are quite right that life is different for the 'D' folk. We are not involved at present and most 'D' folk are chomping at the bit to help out and get involved.

It's over 4 years since we withdrew from Telic and we've had a major turnaround in personnel. They do need training but at the same time it needs to be the right sort of trg. It's been a couple of years since the last Flag but we do get some decent exercises and we do see the good side of service life regularly. That is far less of a pain burden than most out there (JFH, SH, AH, AT, TAL) and of course not forgetting the support personnel who do a sound job too!

I for one have the utmost respect for you all :D:D:D but that doesn't help does it? What would help would be if we could get our little aeroplane somewhere where it could do a job too?

SA

[BootFlap]

Agitator,

could you bring me some beer and some new shreddies? Cheers mate :ok:

PS Don't wish too hard, enjoy the rest. I'm sure it won't be long before you boys are busy!

[Sinjmajeep]

Yes, it is not the RAF that I joined either

Was that the RAF you joined the first time or the one you joined the second? Tonka the original NATO potato;). Glad you are enjoying it and it makes a change to see such a thread.

[threepointonefour]

Bootflap: 1. Flying a moderately fast jet.

Come on now, let's not exaggerate so much just to make a point ...!

[Robert Cooper]

I retired after 30 years in 1983 and still miss it now and again. It is probably different now than in my day, but even then we were still doing 12 month unaccompanied tours and existing on low pay. Remember the wives marching down Whitehall for better pay and conditions? Guess nothing changes but the folks.

Bob C

[peppermint_jam]

I'd have to say yes aswell. I'm mere Tonka groundcrew, but I still enjoy my job. The PVR rate on the Sqn is the highest I've ever known at the moment, so I guess everyone isn't liking it quite as much. Obviously it annoys me sometimes when the powers that be introduce new and interesting ways to kick us in the teeth every now and them, but like all jobs you have to take the rough with the smooth.

I've got no plans to PVR and I'll say (at risk of getting slated or even crated for it!) I am honestly proud to wear a blue uniform (or my green denims!).

p_j

[PerArdua]

Still enjoying being in blue after 21 years but the outside world is beckoning now, not that the security isn't good but I want to try something else to see if I can do it. Only ever had one job interview (for the RAF) and got the job and have met some great characters over the years. It is getting harder to do more with less but the can-do spirit is still there. Could do with more money to keep home command happy but can't we all.

PA

[Wader2]

I still enjoy my job . . . it annoys me sometimes when the powers that be introduce new and interesting ways to kick us in the teeth every now and them, but like all jobs you have to take the rough with the rough.

Agree. The issues here are of course 'managing change' which many of us resist, especially when you have a few in and can see you are on a circular track and 'communication.'

The change is either poorly explain, leaked, or spun and worse re-interpreted as the 'wish' from the top is translated into an 'order' at the bottom.

[WannaBeCiv]

I think Advo had a very important point that most gloss over - the RAF has certainly changed in my 16 years, but I have changed more!

What I wanted to do and enjoyed doing as a young, free, single 21 year old are not the same as I want to do as a married, 2 kids 38 year old. Equally the RAF dont offer FJ flying to many 38+ Sqn Ldrs and even fewer 40 something Wg Cdrs (if I work hard!) And that is what I love doing and why I joined.

So I'm probably going to leave, and do something different. But would I change what a did? Never. I have achieved what I always wanted to do as a kid and had an amazing time flying high-performance (if Bootflap can exaggerate so can I!) aircraft with some great people. Would I recommend it to a youngster today? Yes, without hesitation.

Sorry if this is an aircrew oriented post, but thats what I am.:)

[Jobza Guddun]

Personally I'm still quite happy with what I do as my core job after 18 years, and I really don't want to do anything else for the time being. However, the constant change, increasing bureaucracy, and jobsworth / careerist management is starting to grate. I've recently signed on for LOS30 and am already wondering if I did the right thing! The instant I get an office job, I'm off.

All I want, is to be allowed to get to grips with generating aircraft without being bogged down by sh1te, pettiness, distractions or yet another process change. Lets cut the micro-management and crack on properly!

Does anyone have a good number for FUN?
JG

[Kengineer-130]

"All I want, is to be allowed to get to grips with generating aircraft without being bogged down by sh1te, pettiness, distractions or yet another process change. Lets cut the micro-management and crack on properly!"

This is probably the most sensible thing I have ever read on PPrune :ok:- this sums up 99% of the RAF techhies :ok:- Give us the manpower, give us the tools, give us the equipetment and we WILL get the job done. ( And normally do with very little of the above :})

[Riskman]

Hello everyone and welcome to my maiden post.

Returning to the initial theme, I don't think so. Certainly there is a lot of whinging at times but it's in-house and, in the main, directed into the air where those who are best qualified to understand can shoot it down.

My own view was when it stops being fun - stop doing it and consequently I left the RAF 8 yrs ago, after doing 26. However, no bad memories and no bitterness; just the occasional burst of nostalgia in which I am allowed to indulge by HQ Domestic Gp.

When the troops can't be bothered to gripe then you know morale is really bad. However I think the higher paid help are seriously overdrawn on the military goodwill account, and have defaulted on the covenant that requires loyalty to be reciprocated. I'm proud to have served (got my vets badge the other day :)) and I'm glad I served when I did.

And I'm proud to be associated with all of you.

[toddbabe]

Tonka engo I used to love my life in the RAF but the last five years have changed it beyond recognition, to the point where it is starting to sour every good though that I used to have about it! that is a shame because I really used to think it was great, yes there are some good posts left and perhaps you are in one of them.
Also you are right about people whingeing, they always have done and always will do and the RAF needs people for the future that are going to commit and work hard regardless of the hardships, herein lies the problem as far as I can see, I can count on one hand the number of people that I know approaching their IPP that intend to stay in! if you factor in the record number of people PVR'ing and the trouble they are having in recruiting certain trades then the future really does look grim for the RAF.
Good luck for you and those that decide to continue because I fear you are in the minority, and ten years from now I think the ship will sink, I for one am glad to be jumping ship in a few short years, with lots of good memory yes but tarnished somewhat by lots of bad.

[Report Line]

M8,

love the thread. I'm happy too. Runs close to the wire sometimes but on balance things are OK.

[engoal]

I have been watching this thread for a couple of days now, and agree completely with the general view that it isn't all completely s##t/

To answer the question, damn straight I am! Having just picked up a new job that gets me back in the thick of it, I remember what it was that I enjoyed all those years ago on the sometimes-woeful Tornado Washing and Cleaning Unit at what is now Rock Central. Although some aspects of the support systems are pretty rubbish, and the jury is still out on BWOS' contribution to what we do, I have nothing but admiration for the guys who are quite literally working round the clock to deliver jets, to the extent that I sent 2 home in the past 24 hrs because they were shagged but wanted to finish the job. In fact, the only whingeing I have heard has been from senior folk who ought to know better.

That said, I have to agree with the view that the 'military covenant' could do with a dust off and polish, and I know of at least one future CAS who appears to be genuinely committed to doing so.

[N Joe]

Tonka
I enjoyed every moment up until I left in January and would have stayed if I could have chosen to forsake my career in return for endless station jobs. However, having done a SEngO's tour, with little hope of an OC Eng's tour (or even OC Fwd), and with the IPTs' increased "working with industry" I was destined to work in civvy street for the foreseeable, whether wearing a blue suit or not. Therefore, it seemed right to take my option.
The thread clearly shows you're not the only one in the RAF who still enjoys it and you shouldn't assume that everyone that leaves didn't enjoy their time.
PS Keng130 etc are right. Having spent my entire time in the FJ world, I had a road to Damascus conversion with a last tour on Hercs. Spend some time with an AT or SH sqn in the current Op tempo and you'll realise that you FJ boys don't know you're born!
N Joe

[AWACS_bhoy]

Hi guys im not in the RAF yet but with my IOT date getting closer and closer i am honestly looking forward to it. I have heard a lot of bad press both in the press and from ex-service personnel but I have remained positive and continued to follow as I planned, maybe that’s me just being naive and not wanting to hear the bad stuff) Although im not joining as aircrew, yes im going to be a scopie, well someone has to tell you guys where the baddies are :P anyway......im not going to be flying something pointy and fast but I am going to be at the pointy end and I look forward to it, I know im only young and have a lot to learn but I will learn maybe the hard way I don't know, but I don't think anyone on this planet can say that their job doesn't have its ups and downs and to be honest some of the perks in the services are well above he perks of any other job.

[Il Duce]

Imagine that. Admitting you're going to be a scopie on a public forum.:ooh:

[E-Spy]

Biggus
So which of your two tiers do us Norfolk-folk fit into then? We still do ops like SH, AT and harrier, although admittedly not in the same conditions as the above. Or are we lumped in with your F3/E3D tier - not on ops, never away for prolonged periods.
So where do we fit into your two tier RAF?

For the record and the thread, I'm halfway through a PC and still enjoy it more than not!

Spy out

[Training Risky]

I can't believe that I will be allowed to leave in 7 years with my IP and a lump sum...is it really 63 grand if you commute the lot? (leaving as a 2 barcode wastrel - probably)

I have done the Pensions calculator but I still don't believe it!

Cheers.

So which of your two tiers do us Norfolk-folk fit into then? We still do ops like SH, AT and harrier.

If you mean Norfolk GR4-folk, then you are clearly in the Copacabana and cocktails tier. I don't think you really do ops quite like the punchy side of the RAF do you? There is life below 10000' you know?:E

Try living in the mud and filth with the brown jobs, doing as much time away as they do in a year - they obviously didn't hear me shout "but I'm RAF" as they kicked me off the Herc...:(

[Training Risky]

Is that based on your assessment of hyper-inflation observed now, and extrapolated over 7 years??:(

[AdanaKebab]

AWACS Bhoy good luck! After your trg and CRC tour, you could well find yourself E3 bound. Stick it out through the early bunker years and the better tours will come your way.

As for me ... still enjoying it. How many civvy jobs out there give you access to a free gym and adventurous trg and free dental? And a damn good wage when you start out .... to mention but a few.

I'm waiting for some of the early PVR's to re-apply. They'll be back when they realise what they've lost. Seen it many times before.

AVM Rimmer once told me if you see an old Sqn Ldr whinging about how good the RAF used to be, tell them I said 'Get out now'. The future is always with the new blood.

The whinging old should step aside.

[AdanaKebab]

1.4G, will you be appearing in a Ryanair cockpit sometime soon?

Hm .. sounds great!

[petoprobe]

Whinge, gripe, good times and bad times sounds like the same RAF I joined back in 1982 with 25 years in. Its a people driven outfit full of rouges, the honest hard working, shirkers, blags the bright and the not so bright. most
Wonderful bunch of people you could ever hope to meet and have the honour of working with. Yes the cream of society.

Not the same in civvie street:(

[Jamma]

Quote:
Yes the cream of society.
Not the same in civvie street

Absolutely spot on PP!!

And as an old boss told me back in the early 70's, "Don't worry about the troops whingeing, it's when they stop whingeing you start worrying" ;)

[GasFitter]

... and I've had my fair spat with a few moaners on this forum ... nuff sed!