St Mawgan

[stickandrudderman]

I see from pooleys that St Mawgen accepts civilian traffic.
Has anybody used it and does it involve the usual military airfield "extras"?

[one eleven]

Do an annual summer trip down there from the home counties in a four seater single, with the next one planned in early august; provided it stops raining

Although still an RAF base, the North side of the airfield is civil, with excellent handling by midwest exec, who's staff are always friendly and helpful. My pax also like the VIP treatment which comes with the package including marshalling, ramp pick up and escort to terminal. They will also sort out any local travel or stay over arrangements for you and will refuel the plane whilst your having lunch or dinner!

If you don't mind a nose bleed from the handling bill, its a superb place to fly-in, with spectacular local scenery, a stonking long runway (complete with arrestor hook) and full air traffic service.

[Kengineer-130]

whats the damage for handling then? :}

[cirrus01]

Save yourself a shed load of Dosh..............go to Perranporth instead :ok:

[S-Works]

I go down twice a month. Compulsory handling through mid west exec. They do a great job with a really friendly service. A weekend in the twin costs me £80. For that they carry your bags, arrange fuel and give a full weather brief. A really nice bunch and with the vagaries of weather in the SW the the ILS is a huge benefit.

Perranporth is very nice VFR only airfield and I have been there a few times. But be prepared to get stuck when the weather changes suddenly.

[DX Wombat]

Although still an RAF base, the North side of the airfield is civil, with excellent handling ......... a stonking long runway (complete with arrestor hook) and full air traffic service. I think you will find that as it is a MOD airfield you will be paying MOD rates - you are certainly using their runway and ATC services. ;)

[Kengineer-130]

£80 for handling :mad::eek::ugh:, thats more than I pay for an hours flying :{...... Luckily i am in the RAF anyway, so I get free landings at any military airfield, but I would refuse to fly into anywhere that charges ridiculous fees like that :ugh::ugh:, and they wonder why GA is in decline :(

[S-Works]

Actually it is £80 for approach, parking, landing and handling for a 3 day stay.

It is an RAF airfield with a civilian side (although soon to be all civvie as the RAF side is closing). The RAF provide the ATC and fire cover but everything else is handled by Newquay Airport and the handling agents there are Mid West exec.

It may seem steep to the average cheap skate VFR pilot but to someone coming off the airways in all weathers I find it a 1st class service and good value for money.

Horses for courses I guess.

[DX Wombat]

average cheap skate VFR pilot Please either withdraw or apologise (or preferably both) for that comment. I am a retired nurse who has a very tight budget to work with and, much as I love flying, I cannot afford to pay that sort of landing fee. It is NOT a case of being a cheapskate, it is one of very limited resources. Perhaps you would prefer people such as me not to fly so you can keep flying as a rich boys club? :*

[S-Works]

I shall apologise for nothing. I get sick and tired off the endless moaning about landing fees.

Airfields in the UK are self funded unlike the continent. They have to make a charge to be able to operate the business. An grass airfield with few facilities in the way of fire, ILS etc is a lot cheaper to operate than a full Instrument airport and the prices have to reflect this.

If it is a case of limited resources factor the landing fees into the hourly cost and fly to cheaper places or spend less time in the air for your hourly budget or fly something cheaper. Just don't moan about it.

[hobbit1983]

Flying down that way tommorrow (or rather, will be if the weather permits) and would like to get the AIP for Newquay in case of diversion etc.

However the AIP website doesn't seem to list it

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/html/aipad2.htm

Am I being thick or should I be looking elsewhere?

(Also, if I have to do an ILS due lowering cloudbase etc etc does anyone know how much that will set me back)

Many thanks

Hobbit

PS. I agree with bose-x - (even though it may be expensive & I wish it were all free!)

[Chilli Monster]

Military airfield so in the Military aip (not available on-line) - not in the usual one. Do you know anyone with a set of UK Jepps / AERADs ?

ILS shouldn't be charged for if you need it - that comes as part of the landing & nav fees however you arrive.

[DX Wombat]

Bose - get your facts straight. I am not moaning about the costs, I am objecting to your calling me a cheapskate - something I find extremely offensive. I DO fly the cheapest, safest aircraft I can and I DO look carefully at how long I can afford to fly for and where I can afford to land. I expect an apology.

[hobbit1983]

Thanks Chilli - my flying club has the plates available for use, will be taking those along in case I need them for the ILS. Just wondered if my eyes were decieving me!

Hopefully I shouldn't have to pay the fee - as I'm intending to go elsewhere (Perranporth/Lands End, with a big weather caveat) but I'll certainly be happy to pay for it should I need it.

[S-Works]

DX-W.
Don't hold your breath without a responsible person around.......

However my comment was not aimed at you but at the endless moaning in general about landing fees. It is you that has taken it personally.

It may seem steep to the average cheap skate VFR pilot

Hobbit, If you have to use the ILS and to break cloud and don't land there is no fee to pay. I have done this a couple of times on the way into Peranporth, the St Mawgan guys are typical fine examples of military controllers. Very friendly and ever helpful.

[Knight Paladin]

Oh grow up the both of you!

Bose - whilst I don't think your comments were particularly offensive, you did come across as pretty damn arrogant. Ooooh, wow, look at you, you can fly in airways, let me bow down before you....

Wombat - I can understand you feeling offended, but demanding an apology from someone I'm guessing (and I may well be wrong) you don't really know is pretty pathetic.

[Kengineer-130]

:ugh:Nice attitude Bose-x, I have read many of your posts on here, and you have always seemed like a decent guy, but those ideas of yours are very very misguided. I might "only be a VFR" pilot, but remember that is where you started ( saying that, you prob did your ppl in a 737 :hmm:) , and I fly for pleasure, not a job.

No one minds a few little charges to fund the airfield, but GA is becoming increasingly a rich boys sport, which should not be allowed to happen. People moan about PPL's lack of currency, lack of IR, blah blah blah, what do they expect when even at a small airfeild the handling bill, landing and approach fees cost almost as much as the flying time? :ugh::ugh:.... the less people fly, the more the airports have to pass costs on to other airfield users, by increasing fees. See the circle there? :ugh:3 hours PPL VFR flying, even in an aircraft such as a C150 or a PA28 will cost well over £400, which is getting on for well over half of most peoples mortgage :ugh:

[Skypartners]

The only reason, ONLY reason, why there is mandatory handling at Newquay is because it is an RAF aerodrome. When the RAF go so will the mandatory handling, I am reliably informed. Mandatory handling is enforced because it is not possible for people to wander around airside unaccompanied. It is imposed because every arrival and departure has to be documented for security reasons. Like I say in my earlier post it is probably the only place where handling is justified because there is a high level of service attached. I fly into Newquay every week - I have a business based there and I have to pay handling charges even though I am a partner of the airport.

Now if someone can explain how it is justified at Newcastle, Bristol, Bournemouth ...

[S-Works]

Oh for gods sake......... So many fragile egos.

This has nothing to do with the cost of flying. I merely point out that those who choose to fly at the cheap end of aviation seem to expect that the fees of the places they wish to visit should match their budget with no acknowledgment that these airfields run as a business and have to cover overheads regardless of how small the budgets of those who choose to visit them are.

My comments are nothing to do with the difference between IFR and VFR pilots are where we all came from. It just reflects that those actually using the services provided by such airports seem to have a little more realistic understanding of the fixed costs associated with such places.

What ever your view of me, it seems to be a fact born out over thousands of posts that the average VFR pilot i.e one who does not or cannot use the full facilities of such airfields expects to pay less for not using them despite the fact that they are part of the fixed operating costs of such establishments.

[Kengineer-130]

ok then, so you are saying WE should pay for YOUR ILS approach? :bored:if we all pay a flat fee? :bored:

[S-Works]

I am saying that if you fly into a controlled airfield and talk to a controller regardless of whether you use the ILS or not you have consumed the same resources. Controllers do not get paid on the type of traffic they handle, they get a salary for doing a job. That salary comes largely from the fees charged by the operators of the facility to the users of the facility.

Am I the only one with a basic grasp of business?

[Knight Paladin]

Bose:

I'd agree with you about airport operators having to cover their costs - if people want to fly into a well equipped airfield they should expect to pay a share of the operating cost. Arguably, you in your puddlejumper should pay more than an airliner using the airways or approach aids, as your (probably) low speed means you're clogging the system up for all those others wanting to go faster than you, and using the aforementioned facilities for twice as long as everyone else.......

And as for the talk of fragile egos - with all your stinking chat then you should most definately not be stone throwing in your glass-house!

[S-Works]

Thats what I love about PPrune, people run out of valid arguments so have to take it personal.

A bit like the playground bully who can only argue with fists......

[Knight Paladin]

Sorry mate, did I hurt your feelings? Was actually agreeing with you about airfield charges....

[S-Works]

You may have been agreeing with me but still had to sink to childish personal abuse................

[englishal]

I am saying that if you fly into a controlled airfield and talk to a controller regardless of whether you use the ILS or not you have consumed the same resources. Controllers do not get paid on the type of traffic they handle, they get a salary for doing a job.
Right, but when they are a MoD employee, then they should provide the service to all people as it is your tax pounds at work. Just like they do in America ;)

[S-Works]

I could not agree more Al. Alas that is not the way the system works so we are stuck with it until you become Premier.....

[pumper_bob]

I think an important point is being overlooked here. We are talking of "Cheapskate VFR" pilots here, so it doesnt matter what services the field provides as a VFR pilot doesn't need them. So go to Perranporth which is only 11 miles S.W. and will cost £10 or whatever! If the weather is crap then the VFR pilot will be on the ground anyway.

[Fuji Abound]

Bose is correct - it is a commercial market. We may all wish otherwise (including Bose I suspect), but that is the reality.

As with any commercial market supply and demand has its influence.

I recall when Bournemouth hiked its fees it became a grave for GA. They realised they could slot GA in with the commercial traffic (and all at marginal cost because their fixed costs remained the same) and GA returned.

STM have a problem in that the amount of commercial traffic is small and there are the MOD fees to be paid as well.

[Knight Paladin]

Bose - What exactly did I say that was personally insulting? Other than you might want to reconsider your own attitude if you accuse others of possessing big egos?

[DX Wombat]

one who does not or cannot use the full facilities of such airfields expects to pay less for not using them despite the fact that they are part of the fixed operating costs of such establishments.:confused::confused::confused::confused::conf used: I don't expect to pay ANYTHING for not using a service.
As for fragile egos, getting the wrong end of the stick etc, the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" come to mind BoseX. :* "Let he who is without sin......." Try reading other people's posts a little more carefully. :*

[S-Works]

Uh! I seem to recall it was you who wanted me to apologise......

Personally I don't give a toss, I was merely pointing at that time and time again when people run out of a valid argument on here they resort to name calling.

Don't worry my ego is not damaged in anyway.

As for not using a service, not sure who you work that one out. Last time I looked controlled airfields did not have a VFR only controller especially for the VFR pilots who don't want to pay for unused services. They have one controller doing one job regardless of the flight rules you are arriving under. They do not switch the ILS off just because you can't use it. All of the facilities are there and available to you, if you are unable to or choose not to why should they discount the price?

I wish they were all free like the states, it would save me a fortune, but alas I am realist and if I don't want to pay I go elsewhere. So when the weather is sunny and going to stay that way I go to Peranporth, when it dodgy I go to Newquay and understand I will have to pay for the services.

I don't sit and moan about it......

[pumper_bob]

I'll say it again, am i missing something here? What's the reason a VFR pilot needs to go to St Mawgan, when a very nice airfield is to be had a few miles away? Its a bit like wanting land at London City when you have Stapleford for your C172????????????????
Please explain :confused:

[S-Works]

We were just answering the question as to why to go to St Mawgan, the orginal poster had the ability to fly an ILS and with the rate the weather changes down there it made a safe choice.

But as pointed out there is plenty of choice. If you are going VFR only and are prepared to be weathered in should the weather change suddenly then Peranporth is a good choice.

[Wrong Stuff]

But as pointed out there is plenty of choice. If you are going VFR only and are prepared to be weathered in should the weather change suddenly then Peranporth is a good choice.
Just out of interest, what are the take-off minima for St Mawgan and Perranporth bose-x?

[pumper_bob]

Thats all fine and dany Bose, but it's still the case that the Flying Nurse, being a VFR pilot could use Perranporth and not St MAwgan if the unresistable need to fly to that part of the country so took them:) I assume most who have invested in IR's or IMCR's are only to happy to be flying properly, "like the airlines" as we say:) So do not worry about a £40 or so difference on a 3 day trip! Doesnt even cover the beers:p
Talking of beer, i'm off to the local hostelry! Cheers PB.

[S-Works]

PB, I am sorry but I am completely lost. I never told our flying nurse that he should go to Newquay instead of Peranporth. Read the thread........

Take of minima for private ops is subject to your license. With an IMC 1800m and 600ft I think. IR 0/0 if you were so inclined.

The landing minima are the important ones. VFR only for Peranporth and 200ft for Newquay with an IR 500ft with an IMC (recommended but you could do 200ft if current).

Personally I would not be blagging my way out of a socked in VFR airfield regardless of the fact I have an IR.

[pumper_bob]

Completely lost Bose? I would have used the term "temporarily uncertain of position":} All i am getting at is the gist of the thread moved to you, wombat(The FLying Nurse) and Knight paladin name throwing over an £80 landing fee, which included approach, parking etc! So what i wanted to know was why Wombat would go into St Mawgan, when Perranporth was close by, sseing as it must have been a VFR flight by their admision of being a VFR pilot? Therby saving his/her meagre budget for flying! I totaly agree you get what you pay for in this life and an airfield with radar ils lalalalalalalalalalalala etc will cost more than a strip of grass on the bumby bit of land a farmer could find nothing esle to do with. I deffinitely need a beer now !!:{

[contrail]

Take Off minima 0/0 with an IR should you so desire?
I think not.

[Knight Paladin]

Bose - I suspect the point Wrong Stuff may have been trying to get across is that your take off minima will likely be the same for both Perranporth and St Mawgan - as you quite rightly said it's the other end of the flight where an airfield's facilities tend to be important. I for one have certainly got airborne out of an airfield with no facilities, after negotiating with a nearby radar unit to pick up a service very shortly after take-off. Assuming you do fly in on a good VFR day, your rationale for choosing Mawgan over Perranporth in case you get "weathered in" is one I'd therefore disagree with, although I can well understand your other reasons for wanting to go there.

[stickandrudderman]

Well, I think I got the help I was looking for........:confused:

[one eleven]

stickandrudderman, I hope your going to bloody well go there now after all that has preceded!

totally agreed with bose-x; horses for courses. I fly in VFR but don't mind the charge as once a year me and my pax get treated like VIP's and I happen to like the occasion and discipline of flying into a proper airport

[S-Works]

Take Off minima 0/0 with an IR should you so desire?
I think not.
I think you will find for non JAR Ops there is no limit for a private flight. What would I know, I only have a JAR Ir rather than one of those proper ones.

Edited: To add that there will often be aerodrome minima in the AIP.

[FullyFlapped]

Stand by, Bose-X, here comes another moan ! :p

Can anyone give me a good reason why the galactic regional spaceports (and indeed, a lot of "fields" now) vary the fees (upwards) with an increase in MTOW ?

I quite understand why I have to pay approach, landing and "handling" fees, even if the service received for the latter is often quite pathetic (Newcastle springs immediately to mind), but the "charge you more if you weigh more" thing really p*sses me off.

My single falls into the "between 1.5 and 2.0 tonnes" category. At some airfields, this costs me about 75% more than my previous aircraft, for exactly the same service : and yet the increase in MTOW is almost certainly a benefit to the airfield concerned (I'm likely to take on a lot more fuel, carry more PAX and therefore spend more in local facilities, and whether VFR or IFR, I will be occupying a lot less of the controllers' time.)

Yes, I understand the business rationale behind the L&H charges, but this simply smacks of "we charge you more because we can!" mentality.

FF :ugh:

[S-Works]

I can't explain it and don't like it anymore than you do!!!

I was also not sticking up for charges, just explaining that at least I know why they are made!

[Chilli Monster]

Can anyone give me a good reason why the galactic regional spaceports (and indeed, a lot of "fields" now) vary the fees (upwards) with an increase in MTOW ?

It's an easily quantifiable figure to base charging on, and is a constant that works world-wide. Got any other suggestions?

[Fuji Abound]

Can anyone give me a good reason why the galactic regional spaceports (and indeed, a lot of "fields" now) vary the fees (upwards) with an increase in MTOW ?

In fact it could be a very dangerous arguement.

If the larger the aircraft the more money the airport makes from passengers, fuel and other services holds true, then the lighter the weight, the greater the charge!

Chilli Monster

How about if it is a private flight anything below 5 mt is a tenner :).

[Chilli Monster]

Would work for me - probably give the Finance Dept a heart attack though ;)

To be honest we've got 3 cities within a 20nm radius, each with its own GA airfield. Not a bad situation to be in.

[englishal]

Here...there is one very easy way around these charges.......try to join a military flying club. Then all charges at MoD fields are free ;) (and you can benefit from cheap fuel).

You may need to be sponsored if you are non ex-mil.