View Full Version : Amateur Terrorists?


CherokeeDriver
30th Jun 2007, 18:00
Am I alone in thinking the latest batch of terrorists were trained at Disneyworld?

1) Car crashes into bins outside Tiger Tiger. Terrorist (failed suicide bomber?) runs off. Car fails to do anything of note.

2) Car left near Trafalger Square - illegally parked. Car gets towed for being illegally parked to Park Lane compound. Workers think it smells of petrol so call Police over 12 hours later.

3) Car crashes into Glasgow Airport. 1 person badly burned and detained. Other person taken down by passing member of public (hats off to you sir!) and then cuffed by Airport plod.

Whatever next? A circus/comedy car painted red and yellow with wobbly wheels that fires custard pies at passing MPs?:uhoh:



Lon More
30th Jun 2007, 18:03
Hope you weren't driving a Jeep Cherokee in Glasgow this afternoon :eek:

Sammie_nl
30th Jun 2007, 18:10
CD

How dare you be rational and cool headed in a situation like this. Don't you know that these scary terrorist are out to kill us all! This situation calls for outrage, fear mongering, a clamp-down on civil rights, ID-cards and loads and loads of media attention!!!

:oh:

old,not bold
30th Jun 2007, 18:13
I was wondering about the same thing. In my experience of a few of these things, serious bombers' bombs usually tend to explode as planned, or at least get as far as the detonators going off as planned. And Al Qa'ida is serious.

These devices seem to have been very much for real, or at least the one in the Haymarket was, but in charge of a set of muppets for delivery. I can't work that out, to be frank.

The 21/7 bombs were faulty in their manufacture, but the attempted suicides were for real, as I recall, and their plan worked OK up to the moment they fired the detonators. (Apart from one, perhaps?) There's little that's common with this latest series of attempts.

west lakes
30th Jun 2007, 18:38
Am I alone in thinking (OK conspiracy theory:confused:) that in the minds of the "higher ups" they arn't possibly too bothered about actually blowing them up!

Lets face it the best way to hit us the population is financially. Since 9/11 we have seen restrictions on air travel, what we can take with us, what info we need to give country of destination, after today we could see all sorts of costs and inconveniance even getting to airports. (I was in the US during the fluids on aircraft scare getting home was chaos).

I would say that someone's aims are being achieved:ugh:

bjcc
30th Jun 2007, 19:34
CD

Terrorists screw up. Thankfully. PIRA had the same problem, launched 9 mortar shells at LHR in the 90's, we were lucky, none worked as advertised.

Bearing in mind where they landed, that was a good thing.

As for these 3 attacks, failed? Why? One went off, look at the publicity over the other 2. These 3 bombs caused the desired result.

Wedge
30th Jun 2007, 19:41
Clearly standards are slipping.

Those Al-Quada training camps in Afghanistan need an OFSTED inspection. :hmm:

Big Tudor
30th Jun 2007, 19:51
Trained at DisneyWorld. I don't think so CD. I've seeen the fireworks that Disney can put on. If these guys had been trained there then the GLA airport would be a smoking hole in the ground by now.

Anyway, amateur or not, they don't have to make big bangs to have an effect. Just look at the frenzy that the media is whipping up around it! BBC Website is doing its bit with a How safe do you feel in the UK? viewers comment page. Thankfully most peoples responses are along the lines the lines of 'stop whinging and get on with it'.

Terrorist organisations need publicity to survive. Remove the publicity and you cut off a major part of their being. Perhaps the media could then put the same effort into the real things that are affecting peoples lives. ! :hmm:

MarcJF
30th Jun 2007, 19:51
Well said Wedge, lol. Muppets.

west lakes
30th Jun 2007, 19:54
Terrorist organisations need publicity to survive. Remove the publicity and you cut off a major part of their being. Perhaps the media could then put the same effort into the real things that are affecting peoples lives. ! :hmm:

Absolutely, totally 1000% agree. Report the news, warn the public leave it at that

G-AWZK
30th Jun 2007, 20:32
Watching Sky News, they were playing up the "panic, terror, car rammed at full speed after screeching by" angle. According to a chum who was there at the time, considering what happened there was little panic and more a resigned sense of misery that holiday plans were all screwed up. Not much screaming and panicking from what I could understand.
Did someone not try to set fire to a BMi Embraer at GLA a couple of years ago? Was that a terrorist attack as well?

LTNman
30th Jun 2007, 20:37
The enemy within, I would say there are 2 million suspects.

Big Tudor
30th Jun 2007, 20:42
Being a wee bit judgemental aren't we LTNMan? First of all there's your comment about all LTN taxi drivers being Muslim (and?) and now you appear to be accusing a large part of the population of the UK of criminal acts. Hidden agenda somewhere, or just getting caught up in the hype?:hmm:

tony draper
30th Jun 2007, 21:54
Amateur or not it would behoove us to remember a home made nail bomb or a exploding tank of butane gas will kill you just as dead as a three million dollar cruise missile, although saying that and being a bit of a snob, one would prefer to be offed by a cruise missile.
:rolleyes:

corsair
30th Jun 2007, 22:18
Amateurish, that's exactly what I was thinking. They so called terrorists even failed to kill themselves in a jeep filled with petrol and butane canisters. I always find it remarkable that 'bombs' which fail to go off or are defused are always the most dangerous. he'd have killed hundreds, obviously."
sayeth one eyewitness. It's always the same. The media fill up with scary stories of the potential devastation. Even in Baghdad where they are particularly skilled at bombing helpless civilians they rarely kill more than a few score at a time.
Apart from the 7th July killers, most of the other Al Qaeda wannabees in Britain have marked themselves out as bumbling amateurs. Thank goodness.
I'm beginning to wonder if the real terrorists are in fact the media whose capacity for exaggeration knows no bounds.

Wedge
30th Jun 2007, 22:21
The BBC's Frank Gardner, who is not a man given to hyperbole, just said that if these propane gas cylinders had detonated the explosion would have been enormous and could have killed 100+ people.

This is not a time for complacency, Corsair, amateurish though these attempts appear, we've had three very lucky escapes.

corsair
30th Jun 2007, 23:35
ONE propane cylinder killing hundreds of people????:ooh: C'mon. Only if they stood beside it warming their hands on the fire in a locked room. I have two of those things in my garden sitting beside my kerosene tank. Damm my complacency. It seems I have enough explosive power there to level my street!
Have a look at these videos. The first is quite appropriate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu6Hn7me1cs&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0u-dgueN8k
Nobody died, not even the twits who blew them up.
It's a total exaggeration. In fact Gardner's comment is exactly the kind of hyperbole I'm talking about. There is indeed a terrorist threat but it's being heavily exaggerated to detriment of everyone.

con-pilot
1st Jul 2007, 00:27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0u-dgueN8k

Sure, that tank wrapped with shrapnel wouldn't have hurt a flea.

Who are you trying to kid, yourself? :uhoh:

SLFguy
1st Jul 2007, 00:29
"Amateur or not it would behoove us to remember a home made nail bomb or a exploding tank of butane gas will kill you just as dead as a three million dollar cruise missile, although saying that and being a bit of a snob, one would prefer to be offed by a cruise missile."


The voice of reason...if this really is the 'Iraqi mentality' the it's not the effeciency of the individual bombs..it's the frequency..I personally feel afraid for my family.

barit1
1st Jul 2007, 00:32
From the point of view of the terror leadership, it doesn't matter too much that the device fails to detonate. The mere evidence of the threat is enough to put a stanglehold on everyday commerce, and to make the soft underbelly of our society doubt the motives of Western culture. :rolleyes:

Gingerbread Man
1st Jul 2007, 19:47
It did occur to me that there was a certain level of ineptitude present, if only because 66% of the cars crashed (although I imagine the Glasgow instance was intended that way). However, inept or not I have to agree with the people that say "a murderer in a clown suit is still a murderer", or words to that effect. Would be nice if we could just laugh it off and say "they're pathetic" but it would almost certainly be nervous laughter.

Slightly O/T, but would petrol really explode to the extent that it could carry projectiles? I have less than limited experience in this department but it just seems like it wouldn't. Don't get me wrong - i'm far from disappointed at the idea that it might not.

Ginger ;)

Foss
1st Jul 2007, 20:29
It could have been worse. Blast incendiary.
Train bomb 18 Jan 1980

'The bodies of the three victims of the train bomb were charred beyond recognition in the fierce blast which engulfed the coaches after the incendiary device exploded.

The three were in the rear of the two-coach 4:55 p.m. Ballymena to Belfast Central train. The firebomb exploded as the train was passing underneath the Black’s Road Bridge between Dunmurry and Finaghy station, and the train ground to a halt at the entrance to the tunnel under the M1. Two other passengers were seriously inured with burns and five more were treated in hospital for minor injuries and shock. They were later released.

There were about 30 passengers on board the train, which had just started away from Dunmurry station. Police said that when the blast incendiary, consisting of explosives and petrol, went off, a huge ball of flame enveloped the train. Panic-stricken passengers struggled from the blazing carriages and scrambled their way up the steep bank.

Firemen who tackled the blaze found what rail chief Mr. Roy Beattie described as “three heaps of ashes”- the bodies of the three who died. People living nearby said they heard a sizzling noise rather than any loud explosion and then saw “a great glowing ember” as the train burst into flames.

They heard screams as passengers tried to get clear of the fire. Local people provided cups of tea for the survivors. At first police weren’t even certain what sex the victims had been. Some of those who escaped had their clothes singed by the tremendous heat. One was picked up by a police patrol on Black’s Road after staggering dazed up the bank.
Later, the train conductor, Mr. James Reid from Cullybackey, gave a graphic description of what happened.

He said a coloured man who had got onto the train at Ballymena had asked to be told when they were approaching Finaghy. Mr. Reid added: “We had just pulled out of Dunmurry and I went into the carriage to tell the man the next stop was Finaghy. I had just come back into the conductor’s compartment and had literally just closed the door when there was a bang at my back and I was blown off my feet.” Mr. Reid pulled the emergency stop handle and described the scene: “There were flames everywhere and thick black smoke billowing through the door. The flames were even coming out of the heater grilles. It was a living nightmare.”

A Belfast-Lisburn train which approached the scene on the other line stopped and the driver said he would reverse the train back to Finaghy station to raise the alarm. The driver of the bombed train helped get passengers to safety through the leading carriage which did not catch fire immediately. Mr. Peter Woodard, a Belfast Telegraph staff photographer, was among the Pressmen who were at the scene. He said: “There was an eerie atmosphere as the smoke drifted from the gutted carriages. We were kept at a distance from the train, but we could see black faced firemen working inside the burnt out train. “An Army helicopter hovered overhead keeping a constant spotlight on the train to help the rescuers.”

Police set up a special contact phone number for anxious relatives. They appealed for passengers who had boarded or left the all-stations train on its way from Ballymena to get in touch. The bombers also attacked two trains on the Belfast-Larne line, but in both cases alert passengers spotted the firebombs and they were carried off the trains to explode harmlessly on the platform. The first incident was at 6:15 p.m. at York Road station in Belfast, where a parcel was discovered on a train that had arrived from Larne. It was carried off and detonated shortly afterwards, causing little damage and no injuries.

Twenty minutes later a Carrickfergus-Belfast train was halted at Greensisland station after a passenger spotted a suspect device. It was removed and went off on the platform, causing no injuries.

Two of the three who died in the Dunmurry train bombing lived within half-a-mile of each other. Neighbours have named them as Mark Cochrane, aged 17, of Grangeville Gardens , Finaghy, a pupil at Friends School, Lisburn, and Mr. Max Olorunda (35), a Nigerian who worked as an accountant in Belfast. He lived with his wife and three children at The Laurel, Erinvale.

The name of the third victim now believed to be a man, still wasn’t known. And it could be much later before he is positively identified. Police first thought the charred remains were that of a woman. While the process of identification continued at a city morgue, a survivor of the horror was under police guard in hospital. He is aged about 30 and comes from the Glen Road area of Belfast. Surgeons at a burns unit are treating him for serious injuries to his hands, and the front of his body.

The RUC working on the theory that the bomb went off prematurely as the train headed towards Belfast, want to interview him about the explosion. He is not off the danger list, and it is expected that he will be questioned at his hospital bed later today. Mr. Olorunda had been in Ballymena for the day and neighbours described him as a “very kind, decent man, fond of his children and only interested in his work.” His wife is a nurse and has three children, aged five, three and 14 months.

The parents of Mark Cochrane were said to be “too shocked” to talk about the family tragedy. Five people survived the teatime train horror. Apart from the man now under police guard, all but one have been released from hospital. He is aged 33, and comes from the Saintfield Road area of Belfast. The man has serious burns, but it is thought his condition is improving.

Among the others who escaped the inferno was an 18-year-old boy from Dunmurry, and a 17-year-old girl from Finaghy. A fireman from Killyleagh who helped fight the flames last night was also treated in hospital.

This afternoon the two wrecked train carriages were being examined by forensic men at Queen's Quay, Belfast.
The damage inside according to one policeman is “absolutely frightening”. It’s not known how many people were on the 4:55 from Ballymena as it headed from Central Station in Belfast.

But passengers were picked up at Dunmurry, and police haven’t ruled out the possibility that the bomb-less than 5 lb. of explosives and strapped to a can of petrol- was smuggled on here. The Provisional IRA this afternoon admitted the third victim of the Dunmurry train bomb was one of their men and said they had not meant to kill civilians. They named the man as 26-year-old Kevin Delaney from the Springhill area near Ballymurphy in west Belfast.

The Provos broke their silence on the blast in a statement issued by their Belfast Brigade through the Republican Press Centre on the Falls Road. They said the bomb had gone off prematurely and they offered “deepest and heartfelt sympathy” to the families of the two innocent victims, schoolboy Mark Cochrane and Nigerian accountant Mr. Abayomi Olorunda. In an unusually lengthy statement the Provos described the train fire as a “bombing tragedy.”

Delaney, they said, had been on active service. The Provos went on: “The explosion occurred prematurely and the intended target was not the civilians traveling on the train. We always take the most stringent precautions to ensure the safety of all civilians in the vicinity of a military or commercial bombing operation. The bombing mission on Thursday night was not an exception to this principle. Unfortunately, the unexpected is not something we can predict or prevent in the war situation this country is in, the consequences of the unexpected are often grave and distressing, as Thursday night’s accident shows.”

The IRA statement described the reaction from the politicians and the RUC Chief Constable Mr. John Hermon as “sickening and hypocritical.”

It said: “It is their collective activity of collaboration with the British forces which prolongs this war and the misery it creates.” The statement concluded: “Our sorrow at losing a young married man, Kevin Delaney, Is heightened by the additional deaths of MR. Olorunda and Mark Cochrane. To all their bereaved families we offer our deepest and heartfelt sympathy.”

Later the RUC issued a reply to the Provisional IRA statement. A spokesman said: “The fact is that innocent people are dead and that the Provisional IRA are responsible, as they have been on hundreds of other occasions. Once again they stand condemned in the eyes of the civilized world.” It is understood that Delaney was married with one child and his wife is expecting a second child.

The RUC said earlier they thought they knew who the third victim was but they said positive identification had not been possible. They said the address they had for Delaney was Spinner Street in west Belfast’s falls area. The police said they had been convinced Delaney was a member of the bombing team and the task of identifying the body was going on.

Funeral arrangements were being made for the two innocent victims. Mark’s funeral will take place tomorrow to Lisburn New Cemetery after a service in St. Polycarp’s Parish Church, Finaghy, at 3 p.m.

Two first round Schools’ Cup matches were cancelled today as a mark of respect to Mark, who was to have played for the Friends School Lisburn 1st XV this morning. They were the Friends v. Annadale and the Wallace High v. Limavady High fixtures. In England, leading Tory MP Mr. Winston Churchill called for the return of the death penalty for terrorists following the bomb incident.

West Belfast man Patrick Joseph Flynn was found guilty of the premature bomb explosion on the Ballymena to Belfast train. Flynn (24) of Benraw Road, Andersonstown, stood in the dock visibly disfigured from the explosion and inferno, as he listened to the one-hour judgement by Mr. Justice Kelly at Belfast Crown Court.

He was jailed for 10 years on two charges of manslaughter and seven years for possession of bombs- all sentences to run concurrently. His lawyer, Mr. Richard Ferguson, in a plea for mercy, asked the judge to bear in mind Flynn was “grossly disfigured.”

Mr. Justice Kelly told Flynn: “I am satisfied beyond reasonable doubt you were one of the bombers. I am satisfied you and your associates did not intend to kill. Nevertheless, the explosion and fire caused the death of three people in most horrific circumstances. In sentencing you I am conscious you have suffered sever burns and scars, for the rest of your life which will be a grim reminder to you of the events of that day,” said Mr. Justice Kelly.

The first bomb exploded when Flynn’s fellow bomber Delaney was priming the second device. They had intended leaving the bombs contained in haversacks under the seat of the rear end of the last coach when it arrived at Belfast Central Station. A slip of paper bearing the telephone numbers of the Samaritans and Belfast Central Station was found in a jacket which Mr. Justice Kelly said he was satisfied was Flynn’s.

The two bombers were to have phoned of two warnings before the bombs went off. The trial judge said the Crown case rested on circumstantial evidence. Mr. Justice Kelly said: “Clearly the circumstantial evidence alone is competent to prove guilt. The overall Crown evidence may be likened to a rope bound together with several cords.

Mr. Justice Kelly said Flynn and Delaney as soon as the bomb went off, had tried to get away from the scene. Delaney had perished in the inferno but Flynn had managed to run through the coach and had joined other passengers as they walked up the track and through a tunnel underneath the M1 motorway to Finaghy where they were all taken to hospital.'

Says it all really. Very sad.
Fos

Granite Monolith
1st Jul 2007, 20:37
Amateur or not, every pic tells a story. Thankfully, it would seem, like the recent London attempt, these guys appear to have half a brain[because they obviously didn't make their mark (properly)] , but still intent on carnage etc..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/uk_enl_1183318898/img/1.jpg

G-CPTN
1st Jul 2007, 21:04
It was stated (yesterday on the Beeb) that the initial attempt to drive the Jeep through the Airport doors 'failed' and the driver made a second attempt.

It's not clear whether the doors were wide enough for the Jeep to enter. Was the driver just inept, or did the door-opening mechanism fail to respond to the approach of the vehicle. Mention was made of the 'strength' of the doors and their ability to withstand an assault by a vehicle, and also reference to 'bollards' was made.

Anybody know what the facts are?

G-BOY
1st Jul 2007, 21:08
This is indeed the work of a second Kira...as it would seem.


And for those who haven't read Deathnote - I'm choosing the obvious answer - yes!

Think about 7/7/ and the 'anybody could' culture we've adopted since 9/11 - homegrown terrorists. We don't know until they do something - and we can't stop them until they do something. The words of the police, and an unfortunate truth. :(

The recent events I felt, weren't really given an extreme amount of attention, because of their crappy-ness as pointed out earlier. That's a good thing; it means the terrorist network is weak, or weakening in this country - if they're going to try and do anything - especially the risk of being arrested and interigated.

But actually, the less media coverage there is, the better. Why do you think Osama classed 9/11 as a success? Media Coverage. It stopped the world. If we didn't have TV, the Web, Mass Media or Radio, (hard to imagine in this day and age, but bear with me!) then there wouldn't have been any attention, which would mean that there probably wouldn't have been an attack in the first place.

It's simple - no communication, no reaction.

samuraimatt
1st Jul 2007, 21:12
I see Jeep are running their Grand Cherokee adverts on TV this evening.

Foss
1st Jul 2007, 21:36
It is my belief that there is little you can do against a a determined bomber.
Especially if he does't mind killing himself.
Police stations and army barracks here in good ol Norn Iron have/had massive blast walls, rocket wire, sangars all that blah blah.
So you just dump your car bomb in a street. Once you work how out to detonate it easy peasy. Flash bulb, parking timer, video timer, mobile phone.

It's intellegence that is going to catch these guys. Hopefully.

It is also my belief there are three kinds of terrorist.
The good. The bad and the mad.
The good, despite what they are doing make a workable device, which actually works.
The bad. Make a complete hash of it which doesn't work, and leave fingerprints.
The mad. Detonate it yourself while you are still there.
Fos

Jerricho
1st Jul 2007, 21:54
It was stated (yesterday on the Beeb) that the initial attempt to drive the Jeep through the Airport doors 'failed' and the driver made a second attempt.

Maybe they set off the metal detector and were sent back though........

TheDesertFerret
1st Jul 2007, 23:17
We once blew up a platelayers hut on a disused railway back in the 1970s using a large butane gas cylinder thurst into a mini-bonfire.

I still feel guilty about it to this day. Bad ferret.

However - whilst it did for the the hut I must confess its not the most convincing weapon that should spearhead a jihad.

(We didn't have tactical nukes in West Leeds back then - though I wouldn't put it past the youth of today etc etc)

Blacksheep
2nd Jul 2007, 01:21
Media overhype? Certainly; and by doing so the Meeja contributes directly to the terrorists aims. In reality, the terrorists pose no threat to us whatsoever. Their actions - 9/11 included - are mere pinpricks and ought to be ignored. Pinpricks? Am I serious? Absolutely:

Consider:
The Germans dropped 71,172 tons of bombs and V-rockets on Britain, killing more than 60,500 British civilians. In retaliation, the allied bombardment of Germany deposited 1.5 million tons on Germany (60% on target) and killed an estimated 800,000 civilians - and they still didn't give up until the Russians over-ran Berlin and Hitler committed suicide. In Japan the world's first use of a nuclear weapon totally destroyed the city of Hiroshima - but still failed failed to secure a Japanese surrender : a second nuclear detonation wiping out the entire city of Nagasaki proved necessary.

That is a measure of how effective bombing civilians really is.
I suggested on another thread in this forum that if the entire muslim population of Britain were to go out into the streets and blow themselves up it would make no difference. Well, I suppose it would actually eliminate a major source of the problem, but I think you should have the gist of my meaning by now. We have more important things to worry about than a bunch of quasi-religious nutters, inflated by an exaggerated sense of their own importance.

Much Ado About Nothing.

Wedge
2nd Jul 2007, 12:30
Godwin's law invoked, Red Card for Blacksheep.

Off!

Ropey Pilot
2nd Jul 2007, 13:00
Sure, that tank wrapped with shrapnel wouldn't have hurt a flea
if these propane gas cylinders had detonated the explosion would have been enormous and could have killed 100+ people
Not the same thing!

Yes if you are the unlucky one stood next to it it is a pretty academic difference - but that does not excuse the media of hyping up/manufacturing statistics to boost the terrorists cause (and sell papers)

When PIRA used large propane containers (larger than the ones used here) as explosive devices they opened them up and filled them with Home made explosive (which isn't particularly good in a bang per kilo capacity - but you can make it yourself). If butane was such a good option and commercially available - why bother?

That horrific train incident described above (I only skim read it) seemed to kill only 3 people out of 30 entirely captive potential fatalities - horrible but not hundreds.

This was in a large open area - and most people don't jump into the way of wildly careering vehicles. What was the quoted 100+ based on?
'Could have killed tens - more likely to have been one or two with quite a few injuries' doesn't sell as many papers/get viewing figures/assist terrorist aims in the same way - the fact it is more truthful is almost by the by:(

Krystal n chips
2nd Jul 2007, 16:11
Coughs,
There iis a lighter side to all this of course....depending on your sense of humour :D:E and here I offer the immortal words of a Mr James Smeaton :ok: ( scroll down to the Have-a-go heroes bit )

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2116275,00.html



Now the question is, did the recipient need a translator to understand the verbal sentiments no doubt expressed by the gentleman in question.....;)..on the other hand, the Barlinnie Hotel and Centre of Excellence Education centre may well help in developing a fluency in Glasgow dialects and expressions over the next few years:E


And who was more surprised I wonder, the terrorist, or the member of Strathclyde's finest who, probably, for the first time in his career, found the
local populations boot was not directed at him......which leads to another point re the target.


A little bit of historical research would have shown the local population are not averse to beating the c££p out of each other for the sheer hell of it......and think nothing of it.....but they do take exception to outsiders getting involved and to having their day disturbed.... as my father said, the best place to be was behind a battalion of slightly pissed up and very pissed off Jocks advancing with fixed bayonets...not in front. "not a good idea to select Glasgow therefore" .......in retrospect of course.

G-BOY
2nd Jul 2007, 16:34
Well, if anything - there is humour value in the Glasgow thang:

http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/19645/1183295825/72virgins.JPG

Image found at www.b3ta.com (http://www.b3ta.com) - along with other terrorist related submissions, as is the talk of the day...

Blacksheep
3rd Jul 2007, 04:14
Godwin's law invoked, Red Card for Blacksheep.
Off!What for? Agreeing with the Home Secretary...
In a Commons statement, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said the country would not be "intimidated" by "those who wish to destroy our way of life and our freedoms". ...or for suggesting that terrorism is over-hyped in the Meeja?

Do I feel safe in UK? You're damed right I do! But then I sometimes have to walk the streets of places like Jakarta. Funnily enough, I feel pretty safe there too - well, from terrorists anyway. I'm not likely to visit Baghdad or Kabul any time soon though... :hmm:

possumshagger
3rd Jul 2007, 05:36
Amateurs or not??? it doesn't matter! the fact that there are people out there, in our country,that are prepared to die should give us all something to worry about. Ok they got it wrong this time, but I bet they are trying to get it right for the next time. Here in Brisbane security has already been raised and even a few of the buggers arrested, its having the desired effect. Stop thinking we can help them, throw them out!!:\

bladewashout
3rd Jul 2007, 08:21
One wonders whether it would be in the public's interests for information to be released about government infiltration of any of these networks and sabotage or misinformation about techniques or bomb construction leading to failed terrorist missions.

If that is going on when the police or MI5 can't arrest people due to a lack of evidence, it would mitigate some of the risk when things go further than they expect.

Or is that a conspiracy theory too far?

You have to wonder why these bombs failed to go off - it can't be that hard to create a decent reliable detonator!

BW

fireflybob
3rd Jul 2007, 08:42
Slightly off thread but I was flying the day the Glasgow incident took place and landed about 2220 local. When I got in the shuttle bus to the car park the driver couldnt wait to tell me the "bad news" and how terrible things were going to be next day with all the added security checks etc. So I asked him if he went to watch a bad movie would he go and watch it again? He replied in the negative so I said why do you keep watching the TV news then?! He then said he watched Sky News - yes, I said, it shows!

This BBC thing about how safe it is in Britain has also spread to our local BBC radio station.

The media seem to love whipping up a frenzy over all this. At least Joe public seems to be getting on with life quite happily without letting these events affect them. After all, we lived through the blitz so whats a few bodged petrol bombs going to do to us? I was also pleased to see members of the public had a go at the criminals at Glasgow - up the Scots!!

arcniz
3rd Jul 2007, 18:03
One may think of the process global of Jihadi terrorism as a kind of R&D program, conducted by a very dispersed population, aimed at learning how to produce the largest amount of disruption possible with readily available tools and resources.

A circle of theorists and organizers collect ideas from mutual brainstorming, library search, and the knowledge of a pool of real scientists who are on tap for technical guidance. They then use common means - newsletters, computer networks, pictures and instruction booklets, combined with "word of mouth" to distribute ideas about specific methods and techniques that can be used, at nearly any location on the planet, to commit a bit of mayhem.

Particularly zealous followers embrace specific methods and ideas for a particular plan. These are the folks that eventually appear in the postmortem photos and the drag-net lineups. There are likely enough street-level folks - probably most of them with little understanding of either munitions or politics - to fuel the process until the ends of time. Given how-to instructions on weapons material and target selection, the zealots follow their plan and make their splash in a smaller or larger way.

The tricky bit is that this type of process is sustainable over a VERY long term, it is more or less indefatigable, due to the loose and casual manner of conduct, and is increasingly less sensitive to embargo of "dangerous" chemicals and components as the technology of mayhem from ordinary business and household supplies is advanced, one experiment at a time. And the information and methods thus acquired linger very long.

If this were a business plan, one would have to say that it stands some chance of success - in the mechanics and implementation - over the long term.

The greatest danger to the general population is that single incidents such as London and Glasgow tend to provide training and methods enhancement for the entire community of prospective perpetrators, plus a degree of encouragement perhaps, due to the extensive coverage and post-event discussion of what was good and bad about the approach taken.

In effect, each reported event refines the process and increases the skill of the anarchists in doing mayhem with ordinary objects and materials. As the methods are refined, the process becomes easier to scale-up, so that dozens or hundreds of simultaneous attacks could more easily be undertaken by relatively unaffiliated groups in a synchronized and concerted manner.

Tough stuff! Not to be taken lightly.

BDiONU
3rd Jul 2007, 18:14
Slightly O/T, but would petrol really explode to the extent that it could carry projectiles? I have less than limited experience in this department but it just seems like it wouldn't. Don't get me wrong - i'm far from disappointed at the idea that it might not.
Ginger ;)
I worked at an RAF bombing range for a couple of years, one which had a facility for dropping live 1000lb High Explosive bombs (Cape Wrath in Scotland). Almost every explosion on films is petrol, you can tell by the large amount of smoke and flames. Real HE doesn't go off like that, its mainly blast and you feel the ground shake miles away. You'd have to be pretty close to a petrol bomb, even for shrapnel or nails to get you. I'd imagine butane gas cylinders would be similar, a scary bang but little real damage.

BD

BDiONU
3rd Jul 2007, 18:17
Well, if anything - there is humour value in the Glasgow thang:
Think they're running out of virgins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt_tv7t79WY).

BD

arcniz
3rd Jul 2007, 18:35
Almost every explosion on films is petrol, you can tell by the large amount of smoke and flames.

True enough that movie explosions are for visual effect. The unions and companies do not like to see their actors killed and production lots leveled.

The quintessence of explosive power is the volume of expanding gas and the velocity of the resulting shockwave. Real 'high' explosives have much higher propagation velocities than domesticated substances such as petrol.

One need not venture further down this line of discussion, other than to say that means are available for amplifying the destructive effect of relatively low energy explosives - and many of these are probably within the reach of the jiihadi anarchists central information sources.

BDiONU
3rd Jul 2007, 18:39
and many of these are probably within the reach of the jiihadi anarchists central information sources.
Blimey! Thats a long winded way of saying 'google it' ;)

BD

arcniz
3rd Jul 2007, 18:54
Blimey! Thats a long winded way of saying 'google it'
...or "go to a library."

The irony of all this is that SO many human institutions, in the Muslim world and in the Christian one, too, (plus others too numerous to list) depend on basic principles and beliefs that are plausible only to persons who are not very well informed about what the scientific world considers to be reality.

Dramatically increasing access to information, the greatest novelty of this exact moment in human history, creates political turmoil, unsettling and eventually undermining many social and philosophical institutions that are based more on anecdotal history than analyzed fact.

This same proliferation of access to information has the ability to put previously inaccessible power and tools in the hands of people who may be intemperate in the use of same.

BDiONU
3rd Jul 2007, 19:23
...or "go to a library."
The irony of all this is that SO many human institutions, in the Muslim world and in the Christian one, too, (plus others too numerous to list) depend on basic principles and beliefs that are plausible only to persons who are not very well informed about what the scientific world considers to be reality.
Dramatically increasing access to information, the greatest novelty of this exact moment in human history, creates political turmoil, unsettling and eventually undermining many social and philosophical institutions that are based more on anecdotal history than analyzed fact.
And yet I still find it amazing that religion is still around (albeit seriously in decline, in spite of things like the sexy Alpha courses etc.), despite all the knowledge and facts so freely available. Too many people are only too willing to put their fingers in their ears and go "laa laa laa laa I can't hear you!"

BD

tinpis
3rd Jul 2007, 20:16
Police have named the driver of the failed terrorist attack at Glasgow Airport He has been named as Singed Majeep They also believe that he was celebrating the Muslim Festival of Ramavan.


I know,I know...door...

G-CPTN
3rd Jul 2007, 20:25
Ode to Singe Majeep

Och Firey, Flaming Jeep Cherokee
What in he'en went wrong with thee?
Petrol poured I over me,
Three score and twelve virgins so to see
But a passer by who saw my stunt
Saith 'Te'ek tha' ya wee Jihadist C*nt!'
And with his forearm, quite distinguished
Ma bid for martyrdom extinguished.

Brave Polis based at Abbotsinch
Frae yer duties, didnae flinch
When ma beard began tae singe
And sandals smoulder
My attempt failed at the last inch
Spreadeagled oan ra hard shoulder

I was felled by a muckle Glesca Kiss
Dealt oot by an irate Glesca Miss
On her way tae Corfu oan ra piss
My plan did she scupper
Oor goals are now in the abyss
Campaign for halal fish supper

Alloa Akbar is oor cry
Praise be The Big Yin in ra sky
Blessed is the mutton pie
And Irn Bru
Now Barlinnie food’s in store for I
Withoot a single virgin tae screw.


(apologies to whoever penned this for shameless plagiarism)

arcniz
3rd Jul 2007, 20:50
And yet I still find it amazing that religion is still around ..... despite all the knowledge and facts so freely available. Too many people are only too willing to put their fingers in their ears and go "laa laa laa laa I can't hear you!"
The classic joke about the science of thermodynamics is that, no matter how hard one tries to improve energy efficiency:
a) You can't win.
and
b) You can't break even.

In a sense, this is the message that all of science, taken large, brings to all of humanity.


As fragile, transitory, weak and confused individual animals congregating in a very tumultuous, brief span of existence together, we humans seem to need and to be better able to prosper with access to intellectual perspectives that allow for optimism, hope, ethics and persistence in life, even when science would give us more exact but less pleasing results.

We seem designed to dream, to experiment, to ignore reality and get on with absurd and hopeless pursuits. Our readiness to be irrational, empirical, even absurd, has created and sustained humanity during the million years of it's birthing process -- leading up to, and perhaps ending, today.

If we count tomorrow as the end of humanity's infancy and thus our graduation into childhood, then perhaps that might also mark the beginning of a process of gradually untangling and cooking out the arrogance that superstitions and religions have fostered - of clinging to unhelpful errors and misunderstandings from our collective innocence and simplicity in earlier times.

If so, then we might find the best of all possible worlds ahead, with science guiding us to health and prosperity while philosophy-religion provide hope and peaceful order for the mutual benefit of all the people of the world.

tinpis
3rd Jul 2007, 21:40
One believes the ode was written by Rabbi Burns.

B Fraser
3rd Jul 2007, 21:51
Apology accepted for the verses 2 to 4 in the style of Burns. :p

Cost of gas cylinders from B&Q £62.10
Cost of a 4/4 £18,500
Cost of a tank of petrol for 4/4 £73.26
Cost of a box of matches £0.20

Cost of those guys getting thumped by a baggage handler on a fag break .... absolutely priceless. :D

G-CPTN
3rd Jul 2007, 21:54
Twas doon by the inch o’ Abbots
Oor Johnny walked one day

When he saw a sicht that troubled him
Far more that he could say

A fanatic muslim bastard
Wiz doin what he’d planned

And intae Glesca’s departure hall
A Cherokee he’d rammed.

A big Glaswegian polis
Came forward tae assist

He thocht “a wumman driver”
Or at least someone half-pissed

But to his shock nae drunken Jock
Emerged to grasp his hand

But a flamin Arab loony
Frae Al Qaeda’s band

The mad Islamist nut-case
Had set hissel’ on fire

And swung oot at the polis
GBH his clear desire

Now that’s no richt wur Johnny cried
And sallied tae the fray

A left hook and a heid butt
Required tae save the day.

Now listen up Bin Laden
Yir sort’s nae wanted here

For imported English radicals
Us Scoatsman huv nae fear

Oor hame grown Glesca Asians
Will have nae bluidy truck

So tak yer worldwide jihad
An get yersel tae F***

(again, credit is given to the unknown author)

PaperTiger
3rd Jul 2007, 21:56
It's intellegence that is going to catch these guys.US officials received a report two weeks ago warning of possible terror attacks against Glasgow and Prague this summer but the information was not passed on to British officials, according to ABC News.

A senior official with access to the law enforcement report, prepared for the Department of Homeland and Security, warned that al-Qa'eda was planning a terror "spectacular" targeting "airports infrastructure and aircraft", the US news channel said.The US Department of Homeland Security passed on the warnings, it said.

The police departments in both Glasgow, Montana (http://www.glasgowmt.net/) and Prague, Oklahoma (http://www.pragueoklahoma.com/) were placed on full alert.


;)

Krystal n chips
4th Jul 2007, 05:10
" M'Lord, members of the jury, may I inform you my client is totally innocent of the allegations made against him here to-day. He was, in fact, attempting to return the items found in the vehicle to the BP garage, but, being unfamilar with the location and layout of Glasgow Airport simply followed the directions given by his sat-nav which caused him to take a wrong turn when adjacent to the Terminal building. Shortly thereafter,and in a state of shock, he was subjected to Police brutality and a vicious, random and unprovoked attack by members of the public. We will, of course, be seeking compensation under the Criminal Injuries Bill and also for breaches of the Human Rights Act".;):E

BDiONU
4th Jul 2007, 06:40
If so, then we might find the best of all possible worlds ahead, with science guiding us to health and prosperity while philosophy-religion provide hope and peaceful order for the mutual benefit of all the people of the world.
And yet what have our experiences been of religion? What is this thread about?

BD

BDiONU
4th Jul 2007, 06:42
Al queda has set up a new website www.friends-reignited.com

BD

arcniz
4th Jul 2007, 07:33
BD says Quote:
Originally Posted by arcniz View Post
If so, then we might find the best of all possible worlds ahead, with science guiding us to health and prosperity while philosophy-religion provide hope and peaceful order for the mutual benefit of all the people of the world.

And yet what have our experiences been of religion? What is this thread about?




Wishful thinking, on various sides and from various perspectives. No harm in it until the weapons come out. Nor much result.

Pour another round for my friends, if you will, Barkeep. There's a good fellow!