RT on the web?

[kevmusic]

One of the exams I've yet to take is RT - and one of the things I've yet to do is RT! I've been reading CAP 413 but it's a little dry, and I look forward to hearing the real thing. However, by then I'll be flying and doing it, and as I want to get it more or less right I'd like to hear some pro chat first. I don't want to go as far as buying one of those hand-held receivers so is there a website where you can listen to RT patter, either live or recorded?

TIA,
Kev

[Spitoon]

I've been reading CAP 413 but it's a little dryYou should have seen it when I learned R/T!

Sadly I think that some people seem to think that listening to ATC on the web is some sort of security threat and most of the streams that were available look like they're dead. Technically it's probably illegal to stream RT in most places anyway but try Googling "live ATC" and you might find the odd link that works.

[kevmusic]

Thanks, Spitoon, that came up with a load of links!:ok: I'm listening live to Boston at the moment and I have to say, I'm finding 90% of it complete gobbledegook! :{ They speak so fast and I can't work out how they all seem to know what each other is saying.

.....Wonder if Headcorn Radio does a live feed......

[Foxy Loxy]

Go and look at ATC forum. There is a thread there about listening to ATC.

Foxy

[TCAS FAN]

It's no longer "R/T" it's "RTF", check the UK AIP.

[niknak]

Unfortunately, the only way to learn RTF procedures properly is a combination of having it taught to you on an R/T course and listening and taking note of what goes on at an airfield with an official Air Traffic Control Unit.
Once you've had a few hours on the practical side of using the radio, try and arrange a visit to the ATC Unit at a local airport, most places are pretty accomodating and will do their best to fit you in.
Forget anything less than an airport with an ATC service, with due respect, although certain standards are supposed to be maintained, they very rarely are at airfields which don't have an authorised ATC service.
Precise and accurate RTF is essential for all sorts of reasons, not least safety, but it isn't easy to learn and the majority of us ATCOs will go out of our way to help you.
Just remember, if you don't understand, ask and if necessary, ask again.:ok:

[Whopity]

A recent survey by NATS highlighted the vast number of incorrect RT calls that are heard on the Air. This is certainly not a good way to learn correct RT.

Most people pick up their bad habits by listening to others.

Try reading the book, thats what you are tested to, then listen for real, and identify all the mistakes you will hear!

[Blues&twos]

This site links to live ATC feeds from the USA, so it may well be completely useless for you! I've only had a couple of lessons so I'm no expert, I don't know how different UK and US RT is.

http://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php

[flower]

If trying to learn RT for the UK then listening to an American feed is a complete waste of time, there are too many differences and that will only complicate matters.
Whilst you will hear errors on the RT if listening in you will still learn , many of todays airline pilots will tell you they started off with a scanner. There are all sorts of legalities involved see here;
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206063

Best way though is to practice practice practice. I'm told by many PPLs that they do it in the car on the way to an from work and at any other convenient time, people may look at you oddly but you will soon get it in your head.
It is a lot less complex than people think it is as well but for some reason many fear it.

[Mr_B]

Have you got this document?

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413Supplement.pdf

Its aimed at commercial pilots rather than ppl.

I'm trying to learn RT, I find CAP 413 examples too bitty. I'd like them to include complete examples from start to finish (start up, taxi, take off, cruise, approach, circuit and land), ideally one example

Airport with FISO

and another example for an

Airport with Radar

Has anyone tried putting the text in CAP413 (just the examples) through a text to speach converter?

[slackie]

The LiveATC.net website used to retransmit New Zealand feeds that were in contradiction of the NZ Radiocommunications Act 1989.

This was brought to their attention by the NZ ANS provider, supported in this instance by the professional association representing the majority of NZ professional pilots and 99% of NZ air traffic controllers. Unfortunately the owner of the website then lost the plot.

The website owner obviously has no knowledge of the wider issues and even less interest in learning why. When a user (me) attempted to inform his website users of some of the issues (using the website forum) he locked the thread, deleted the post and banned the user. So much for "freedom of speech".

[BEagle]

As one of the contributors on this post well knows, I once asked him what the 'F' in RTF stood for....

As far as I'm aware, it comes from the stone age term Radio Telegraphie sans Fil or wireless radio telegraphy. Except that these days it's telephony rather than telegraphy.

CAP413 is aimed at everone, not just commercial pilots. Also take a look at Safety Sense Leaflet 22 freely available in LASORS.

Unfortunately, many bad habits still exist, so don't rely on listening to other people's R/T. "Err, good morning, sir, err, I'm a err, Piper PA 28 dash one sixty one romeo, err, from..........." and the like.

But equally there are those who get enormously upset if someone says 'Finals' instead of 'Final'.....:rolleyes:

[PompeyPaul]

I've recently passed RT. I don't think you can learn it from a book (although you may get through the written). Unless you spend LOTS of time on it (i.e. months and months at an hour a day) I don't think you'll get through the exam without 1 on 1 tuition.

Also whilst the radio scanner may help I suspect you'll end up picking up lots of bad habits "G-RDIO with you" etc which will be even harder to remove and may make things more difficult in the longer term.

Read the book (I recommend Jeremy Pratt's PPL2 "Communications"), then get the 1:1 tuition when you've done some flying, then get the exam done.

CAP 413 is an almighty document to wade through and only about 50% of it is actually tested, so you are wasting your time using that solely imho.

PS If you really want a radio scanner, but don't want to buy one then I'll send you mine for free. I used it once or twice but didn't find it in anyway useful to get through the practical exam.

[kevmusic]

That's a nice offer - thanks, PP :). Of all the PPL ground subjects, R/T is the only one which is aural i.e., non-academic. And the only one which is not covered by the OAT interactive CD-ROMs! CAP 413 is a difficult tome to get what we need from it. I think we need something more PPL-specific, and preferably written by professional educationalists with the specialist knowledge.

Thanks all, for your helpful replies.

[Shunter]

When I was learning I found just having a scanner sat in the kitchen switched on was pretty useful. I also took a course with a chap called Malcolm who does regular sessions at Multiflight Leeds and Manchester City Intergalactic Spaceport (Barton) - possibly the best money I spent during my PPL training.

As mentioned, liveatc.net have a number of feeds, although none in the UK (last time I checked). In this country we have a proposterously outdated law dating from the 1940's which governs the transmitting and receiving of VHF signals. Technically I think you're breaking the law simply by listening to airband transmissions unless you have an RT license for that frequency range. Obviously most people utterly ignore it, and I don't blame them!

[hoodie]

CAP413 is aimed at everyone, not just commercial pilots.

BEags, of course that's so, but Mr_B's link was to the recently released CAP413 Supplement which is biased toward the Commercial pilot -"A Quick Reference Guide to UK Phraseology". A PPL-centric equivalent supplement is promised "soon".

Also take a look at Safety Sense Leaflet 22 freely available in LASORS.

If anyone is looking for a direct list to a PDF of this, it's here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_GAD_WEBSSL22.PDF).