Lokilokia?

[the wizard of auz]

I just saw a program on the cable showing some guys flying wounded from Chad and other great places into a place called Lokilokia for medical treatment.
There were twotters, kingairs and I think it was a turbine powered carabou, all white with the big red cross on it. Anyone have info on who they are and how to get work with them? this looks like dangerous and challenging work and I would love to have a go at it. :eek:

[The Guvnor]

Don't you mean Lokkichoggio; in Kenya on the Sudanese border - base of OLS (Operation Lifeline Sudan). Rossair, Trackmark and Safair are (or were) big players there.

Haven't been to Kate's Camp for years now - so more up to date info is needed!

[the wizard of auz]

By gumm, some one ought to tell them people at FOXTEL that they need to learn how to spell the name of the place the story is about.
that sounds about the right area though.
:D ;) :D

[Agaricus bisporus]

Chad? Lokichoggio? One heck of a casevac, the nearest point in Chad to Loki is 1000 miles over a war zone.

Big white 'Ndege with red crosses sounds like Loki, but like lotsa other pleces too, and I'd have thought thre were better places to 'vac to from Chad than Loki.

[Max Torque]

Hiya Wiz.
That sounds to me like the ICRC Flying Circus out of Lokichokkio, or Loki as it’s called. They have a B200 (did it have a cargo pod ?), a Twotter and the turbine Caribou, which is a DHC5A Buffalo. They would have been coming in from Sudan, not Chad, so Foxtel would seem to be wide of the mark.
The Kingair is operated by Aviation Assistance of Denmark, the Twotter by Rossair of South Africa and the Buffalo by Sky Relief of Zimbabwe. The work is certainly challenging. Dangerous…..well the co-pilot on the B200 was killed by ground fire earlier this year and the Buffalo was damaged in a bombing raid last year while on the ground in Southern Sudan. A few years back the Twotter and its crew and pax were held for a few weeks by one of the factions, so a certain amount of sh** happens. Not a posting that usually generates great enthusiasm from the rels.
If I had to do it all over again, I would go for the Buffalo. There are also 1-2 of them operated by ALS of Nairobi, Kenya based in Loki, and flying for UN/WFP. I would go and talk to them. The Buffalo (which I have unfortunately never flown) has got to be one of the greatest aircraft ever made.
SAFAIR and Transafrique also have 3-4 C130’s with the WFP, same location, doing air drops in Southern Sudan, if you’re ex mil. Trackmark of Nairobi have Caravans along with Kingair Services. And then there are the Russians…….couldn’t tell you about them. Don’t even know where they go.
Rossair’s Twotter is on Kenyan regs – Rossair live at Lanseria, SA.
Aviation Assistance probably has enough crew thanks to 9/11 and the general slow down in Europe and Scandinavia.
If you really want to do this, you need your head checking, but then so do the rest of us.
Good luck.
MT

[the wizard of auz]

Hey MAX TORQUE, thanx mate, plenty of good info from your post (and I like the look of the buffalo as well). your probably right in your assumption that I need my head read, because I would really enjoy this sort of work.
will be doing a bit of research in the next few days....who knows I might see you over there.........at the local shrinks, awaiting an appointment like me. :D :D :D

[dartly]

Gday,

I fly in and out of Loki right now and am and Auzzie Banana bender. Things are really cool up there - dont believe everything that is said. It is hard yakka in hot conditions but great camaradarie at the bar in the evenings, lots of hours, lots of bush flying into strips that usually illicit a reply from the new guys of "what the fu88 - are you really gonna try to put this thing on that????" Anyway for more info email me. I dont think you need your head read mate it is the best flying I have ever done in my life. PS you dont have to be ex military to fly all of the hercs!!!!

[Gunship]

:confused: Hey dartley is Jaco Klopper still there ? :rolleyes: Enjoy Loki and send regards to Bergies from Gunship in West Africa - they will know who it is ... tx m8 :D

[dartly]

Hey Gunship, Yeh Jaco is still there and kicking strong. Are you in the Congo??? Did you fly out of Khartoum by any chance???
dartly

[Gunship]

Hey Dartly, Please send my best wishes to him. Bergies is also known as Marius Bergman. Think he flies for SAAFAIR. No, sorry I have not flown there. I am a chopper jock from West Africa. As them they can tell you more. cheers and best wishes, Gunship :D

[The Guvnor]

Hey Gunship - you still in SL?

[Dodgey]

hey, lekkerloki, I hear the redcross nurses are butt ugly there. On the other hand ugly is not in the contract pilots dictionary.Well definately not in Waggawagga's. What are you up to mate?
:p

[The General]

Dartly
How is the sweet lady doing?? Gunship may not have been here but John, Hannes and the ever Artful Arthur are doing time here in Kinshasa. Ian isn't around so there is plenty of beer available and whats more, is we get to drink it ourselves. Love to share one with you... so long as we don't get busted!!! :D ;) :D ;)

[Gunship]

Hallo Guv,

Yes still in SL. Sorry was off the air for a while - lost the old laptop in a crash on 19 October. Are you well ?

The General : Is that Arthur Bradstreet you are talking about ?

Cheers and best wishes.

Gunship :D

[The General]

Sorry Gunship
Wrong Arthur, ours is a Kiwi

[Gunship]

The General : Tx and enjoy Cape Town.

[Turboboy]

G'day all,
Just after some advice.
What are the requirements to fly within the African continent.
I have US and Australian ATPL can these be converted to a African ATPL, or can I fly on one of the overseas licences that I have?
What are the visa requirements?
What are the job opportunities like?
Any advice or information would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Gunship]

Hi Turboboy,

I am not of much help on the topic, but what I suggest is rather open up a new topic. Other suggestion (as it has been discussed many times before) - make your posts go back for the year and search in the archives.

Hope it works for you!
Best regards,

Gunship :) :) :)

[Turboboy]

Thanks Gunship,
Happy flying

[Tokoloshe]

News for the Wizard of Auz;
Don't let them put you off Loki. I spent many months flying for the ICRC there with the Turbine DC3 and Twin Otter a few years ago. As you can see from some of the other posts the days are long, the Tuskers are always cold and the nurses willing. You might need your head read afterwards though. Ask Kabullet how he enjoyed it!!
I have a "civilised" job now but look back on those days with a lot of good memories :) :) :)
Have fun!

[batty_boy]

I flew buffs at loki for the last 18 months of 10 years in kenya.
loved it.
would i swop my ng jet for the delights of loki? definatly ( but not till the end of next season)

do i need my head examined?
yes but not because of loki.
Three weeks hard graft on the buff between doing the navs and techs in the uk was a breath of fresh air and kept me sane.

Did it hone my flying skills
yes

do i still have them
no

did it expose me to experiences that now make me a better assesor of risk/
yes.

Does that show up with my airline only colleagues scared of their own shadow
yes

I was a pilot then, now i'm in an academic rat race with some fond memories

go for it its the dogs bollocks but dont expect an easy time the hassle factor can be crippling at the beggining

[Komba]

Hey Batty Boy,

How was the boogie? Heard it went well.

If you are lost for fun over 31st Dec, we are all going down to Watamu for a **** up.
Get in touch.

[Deviation Approved]

Hey Dartly...

How is Loki these days? I got my first Turbine job there flying Otters into the Sudan for Zimex back in 1990.

I lost my turbine virginity flyin out of Loki so it holds dear in my heart.

"wizard of auz" Loki is some of the best flyin I have done in my career, I wouldn't give up the memories for quids!

Good luck in your search.

Devo.

[madscotsman]

Can anyone supply me with contact numbers for the ICRC, Aviation Assistance, Sky Relief and Zimex.

All help would be appreciated.

[the wizard of auz]

Thanx for all the replies about Loki, it only makes me wanna go there more. What are the usuall requirements to get in with the right mobs, what have people had in the way hrs and ratings to get a job over there and how does one go about getting licence validatiions and all the other guff required.

wanna go now...just gotta work out the bugs....Bugga it, I'll take em with me. :) :)

[ 28 December 2001: Message edited by: the wizard of auz ]</p>

[break dancer]

Well, it all sounds like great fun, which it was. Everyone forgets to mention the hassles of going through the Kenyan DCA on your own because the companies there want to see your commitment. Three, four, five months later depending on whether you sucumbed to paying a bride, let alone finding the right person to pay, you'll be the proud owner of a Kenyan license. Then maybe a company there will offer you a job. One, two, three months later your work permit comes through and you're ready to roll. When batty_boy went through, the companies were a little more accommodating, but those days have gone. Good luck.

[batty_boy]

When i went thru the hassles were no less and the companies as accomodating as they are now.i got a job on a 6 seater twin and went from there. i had my permit pulled twisted given back ,immigration knockin on the door, dca knockin on the other door.
the difference is i was a thug in uganda before i learnt to fly, therefore alredy in africa. After that little job iwanted to be a bush pilot and nothing was going to stop me.its all relative and horses for courses .if anything i hear one of my old companies is easier to get into permit wise now as the indiginous pressure is off due to the kq hiring heavily.
as for my dreams of being a bush pilot it seems to have happened as every time i land my scruggs wonder jet i always get called a f***ing bush pilot, and i still cant bear to fly a papi and waste runway.if the only use for the first 1000ft of runway is markings why didnt they paint them on the grass. the end off the runway is for wheels!!!!

[break dancer]

Well batty_boy, you take the dough, so you'd better get used to flying as the company want you to fly. If that means putting the aircraft down on the 1000 foot markers, then so be it. What's the difference as long as you land the thing where you want it to be landed? As for having it tough.....what a shame that we can't put any violin music on this thingy. Will see you around no doubt.

[batty_boy]

like i said pal horses for courses.
no one asked you to go out there <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[ipanema]

I think people with airline time are more attractive to employers because of the learned discipline and understanding that almost everything is done in a uniform way - and to a fairly high standard.

In very large airlines you may fly with a fellow aviator once, and then never again... or maybe once again in ten years' time. That takes a thorough standardisation of procedures so there is a minumum of misunderstanding in the cockpit.

CRM plays a large part in cockpit procedures now... the days of "the Captain rules, no matter what" are long over, and it is a safer working environment for it.

The VASIS/PAPI are there for a reason. If they are installed, use them (unless you have a good reason not to), and track those lights all the way down to the flare.

The same goes for instrument procedures... fly like a cowboy all the time, and one day when your IR or an important ride comes up you will blow it for sheer lack of practice. You will ALWAYS tremble before a ride.

Keep working at elevating your own accuracy and ethics, and there is no check pilot in this world that can budge you from the required standards, no matter what they throw at you. A current professional can do any ride any time without study or preparation.

Some pilots have 3x5 cards, some keep and study a copy of their regs in the "bog", some read and cross-examine the other pilot in the cockpit during flights.

Everybody has their own method, but pilots who want to be recognised as true professionals never deviate from the highest level of flying and knowledge they can maintain.

I have been in both the cowboy and airline environments, and I can tell you the airline version is harder to do - but much more professionally satisfying.

[the wizard of auz]

I consider what I do for a living as being my profesion.....thus I am profesional, and I also believe that the conditions that I have to operate in as being far more demanding than most airline pilots will ever have to experiance.
why is it that anyone that drives an aircraft that weighs more than 5700kgs thinks that their job is more profesional than mine.........I would love to take one of you fella's out with me for the day and see how you deal with what I have to do as an operational requirement every time I fly.....for ten hours a day....whithout a FO......or a auto pilot....or any nav aids.....or any airports (or airstrips for that matter)and at below 100ft in thermals you wouldnt believe.....call my job cowboyism, you wouldnt know hard yakka if it bit you in the ass, so 7700 someone elses thread. <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Hey Wizard:

I wouldnt get to upset about all that fluff about airline flying if I were you.

Look at it this way you don't need PAPPI to lead you by the hand to the touch down point.

You don't use SOP's because you have to fly and figure it out yourself, SOP's were put in place so there would be continuity in the cockpit no matter who you fly with. Another thing about SOP's they are set up dumbed down to the lowest slowest thinking among us. In otherwords SOP's were designed to make flying almost idiot proof.

I have never met you but I bet you don't strut around loaded down with gold bars ...do you?

And I'll bet you don't need someone to wipe your ass every morning before you climb in your airplane.

Some day I will visit Aus. it is the only continent I never managed to fly in.


There that should make me really popular with the Airline drivers:::
..............

:) The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. :)

[PolarTrack]

Hey there Wizard!

If you think that's the kind of flying you would like to do (for a while), go to Kenya, go to Loki!

I was there in the mid 90's, had a blast, fun flying, good way to build hours! ...and you'll meet a lot of good chaps... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

When you land in Nairobi, go to the Aero Club of East Africa at Wilson, most likely you will meet a bunch of good fellows there who will give you a tip or two on how to convert your papers.
They might even invite to the bar Friday night...
and from there on, no sweat... <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

Go for it Wiz, and have a good time!

[batty_boy]

like i said horses for courses,and might i add when in rome.nuff said
dont be so bloody pompous ipanea or wot ever your name is.oh keeper of professionalism, and moral guardian of standards

batty. slr,smg,ak47,cdm,jellytots,atplx3,hgv,opal fruits,snowblades and bar,goatee,gsm ,sam.lance corporal retired.with shiney pants and oak leaves.

[ipanema]

Take a powder, Batty_Boy. Or stop complaining about being called a Bush Pilot. If you are proud of something then hang your hat there, you can't have it both ways.

If your Company procedures state you are expected to use the PAPI/VASIS and touch down on the markers, then nail the lights and centerline and leave another couple of strips of rubber on the paint every time. We all know you can nail the threshold - any moron can do that... now nail the glideslope.

I was merely pointing out why some experience is more attractive to employers than others. When they hand someone a hunk of metal worth between US$ one-half and 3 million along with precious self-loading freight and valuable corporate reputation, they'd like to think the risk will be minimal.

Whether they are considered necessary or not, someone who's willing to keep whingeing about being pulled up for not doing what was expected of them is not likely to earn their future confidence.

Like I said before, I was there, I know where you are coming from: I did it myself once. But I learned there are other perspectives - and that some people are so narrow-minded they don't want to hear about them.

Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, as far as I am concerned my only option is to be no less than a professional. It ensures my job, protects the safety of my passengers and aircraft, and promotes confidence in others.

If you want to be a cowboy or fly like a Bush Pilot, that's fine with me too, but I'll be watching you like a hawk any time I'm around you, flying or not.

If I have to fly an aircraft after you I will have some extra inspecting to do - over and above my already thorough walkaround and operating checks.

It's largely a matter of self-respect. If you have no time for such trivialities, then so be it.

Have a good one...

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Ipanema:

Why are you slagging other pilots whom you do not even know?

I have done some different flying over the years and understand what airline flying is, can you explain cowboy flying? That is one type I never heard of, what are the qualifications to be one? When you were doing cowboy flying what kind of machines did you operate? I noticed you claim airline flying is harder than cowboy flying so I guess cowboy flying must really be easy.

So how about helping me better understand these issues.

.............


:) The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. :)

[ipanema]

Maybe someone should help you to read first. Go over my posts again c a r e f u l l y and you will see that I am not slagging anyone, simply pointing out a reality.

I started out in 1972 with the standard Commercial IR ME, hit the fuel crisis, spent 5 years without a flying job. Then barely scraped by the checks to get on an Islander and for three years flew 12-hour duty days 6 days a week in days when pilots were a dime a dozen and Air Navigation Orders were wide open to interpretation.

I said twice that I had been there - did you not happen to read that, perhaps? Do you think my advertised 13,000 hours, 24,000 landings and 7,000 hours turbine is something I padded out from an actual 35 hours on a Cessa 172?

My intent was to encourage the gentleman to sharpen his skills and be more attractive to employers rather than stay in the "Bush Pilot" category that he himself said people look down on.

To respond to people who will only skim posts and twist statements to start trouble is pointless. Unless, therefore there is further sign of intelligent life on this thread I will not be responding again.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Don't get so touchy Ipanema:

I may be wrong regarding your posts, I thought you came across as being a little bit better than us.

The comments about airline flying I guess is what got me to wondering, you seemed to make it out to be so difficult, and just so much better than other types of flying.

I don't happen to agree with you, here's why.

Airline flying means you have your flights computer generated and all the major problems such as winds, routing fuel, W&B etc. pretty well done for you. Then you are pointed in the right direction and given most of your headings to fly by A.T.C. Not to mention you have another pilot sitting with you that has been programmed in exactly the same thought and action process as you are. I think the buzz words are CRM and SOP's if I recall correctly. Then after ATC leads you to the ILS or whatever approach you are going to do you have the choice of letting the autopilot fly the approach if you so desire as it has probably been doing most of your flying anyhow don't disconnect it, why ruin something that has worked so well up to now?

Then they drive you to a nice hotel where you can down a couple cold ones to unwind.

Yeh, its real tough alright.

One more suggestion Ipanema, this is the Africa thread and you have indicated you wish to fly in Africa. I have flown and spent a lot of time in twenty two African Countries and some of them are not at all like the touchy feely everything is done for you world airline flying is.

If I am correct in assuming you "seem" to have an attitude problem by the way you "seem" to talk down to people so you just may not survive Africa with that attitude.

And yes not only can I read but I also have done most of the Aviation stuff both fixed and rotary wing. For what it is worth when I received my instrument rating we had to read morse code and the radio ranges were the airways, in the arctic we used celestial navigation. My last training was on the Airbus A320 so I also can play computer games just like "the real pilots". You wouldn't want to know my total time, but I'll give you a hint. In 1972 I had more experience than you have now. So to tell you the truth flying hours really are of no great importance in the grand scheme of things. ( by the way I have never had an accident, incident nor violation)

Oh I forgot to mention I can also read to help me with that pretty computer game Airbus makes.

So there you go does that meet your specs.?

.................

<img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[the wizard of auz]

And I might just add that some of us "Bush pilots" are a sight more profesional than some airline types I've met.....in my job, if you stuff around or take the cowboy approach, you will end up very dead very quick....as have quite a few I've met.

[4HolerPoler]

Seems to me that a few guys with huge egos are railroading this thread. I think the original nature of the thread has been sufficiently addressed that we can close this one down.